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The Wii U Speculation Thread V: The Final Frontier

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Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Just FYI...






Superman isn't weak to magic. He's just vulnerable to it. And the vulnerability is more akin to a regular person being vulnerable to magic. :p
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Gahiggidy said:
Ken Levine because I would be able to buy his Wii U game at launch. Seriously, a game with that much depth in the lineup means you can afford to have your first party 'M' rated fair, ie Eternal Darkness, slip into the spring of 2013.

-----

About the x*360 speculation. I really have a hard time believing the Wii U will end up closer to the 360 than to the "720" successor. One, Nintendo is building this from the ground up like they did with GCN. They are going to squeeze as much performance per dollar as they can get with today's available technology. And two, Microsoft and Sony only have an extra year to build their boxes. They won't have access to dramatically more modern chipsets.

My speculation:

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 7x 360
PS4 .. 6x 360

But putting aside x* units, I expect Wii U to have 75% the real world performance of the new Xbox, while Sony's machine will be around 90%.
Click to expand...

Dash Kappei said:
...

Man, you're going to be soooo disapponted...
Click to expand...
Explain how? Do people really think Nintendo are a bunch of rubes who are incapable of designing an impressive system?
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Explain how? Do people really think Nintendo are a bunch of rubes who are incapable of designing an impressive system?
Click to expand...

I think he's saying that in terms of computational power, 5x is a lot faster than most people think it'll be, especially in the cpu department, but still by quite a bit in the gpu area.
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
GameplayWhore said:
I think he's saying that in terms of computational power, 5x is a lot faster than most people think it'll be, especially in the cpu department, but still by quite a bit in the gpu area.
Click to expand...

The whole power discussion in general is terrible because most people dont know what the fuck 3x, 4x, or 5x even mean.

This is a case were i prefer DBZ power levels.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Naked Prime said:
I can see the ads now..." Can't get credit approval for Xbox Live? Credit score lower than a noob's K/D ratio? Wii have a solution for U. Nintendo Network. Where being economically viaible won't stop your call of duty"

It would be hilarious if bad/low credit dictates how much gamers pay for the next Xbox.
Click to expand...

Curious question has Nintendo ever run ads that either insult or mock their competition in some fashion?

Like the Crash Bandicoot in front of Nintendo HQ or the Blur ads?
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Am I wrong to assume a box that's 2x the 360 could have been released in 2008 for a cost of ~$200.00?
 
B

bgassassin

Member
skinnyrattler said:
Would be interesting to see how much MS is willing to defer payment on. I guess they have enough but I don't see it being a industry standard since it prevents HW companies from collecting on cash for 2 years. 2nd, you have to sign up for service, which either has to be done in store or when you power on. Imagine a screen preventing you from playing a game because you didn't sign up for Xbox live gold?

Although, I wholeheartedly support that idea for Gaf gold and dirty junior members.
Click to expand...

Haha. Another thing of interest would be what is their cost in this. They might look at taking a loss at the $499 price, but they might decide to pursue a profit or breakeven on a $199 + monthly option.

GameplayWhore said:
I think he's saying that in terms of computational power, 5x is a lot faster than most people think it'll be, especially in the cpu department, but still by quite a bit in the gpu area.
Click to expand...

I assumed he was referring to how close the multiples were. Using Gahiggidy's post I'd believe it would be more like:

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 12x 360
PS4 .. 10x 360

Gamer @ Heart said:
The whole power discussion in general is terrible because most people dont know what the fuck 3x, 4x, or 5x even mean.

This is a case were i prefer DBZ power levels.
Click to expand...

I agree. When you don't know the variable(s) it makes it tough to properly comprehend it. I prefer to learn about the hardware and project the level of output it's capable of.
 
J

japtor

Member
Gamer @ Heart said:
The whole power discussion in general is terrible because most people dont know what the fuck 3x, 4x, or 5x even mean.

This is a case were i prefer DBZ power levels.
Click to expand...
I figure we've all been well over 9000 for a while now. The new Xbox will be able to destroy worlds, but so could the 360 and likely the Wii U. It'll just be able to destroy them faster or with finer resolution, like the Wii U might be able to blow Earth up into 720 pieces while the new Xbox would pulverize it into 1080.

For most people that difference won't matter, either way they'll be dead. For them the main thing is the magic software of the Dragonballs to save the day.
Jorok Goldblade said:
Wii= Batman

Has no power, but still manages to beat the rest of the League handily. Seems to pull out a brand new gizmo every month.
Click to expand...
More efficient at working with what he's got, not as strong (conventional power) but extra smarts (extra fixed function hardware) make up for it. Parents tragically killed in his youth (Yokoi) but has been taken care of by the old butler (Yamauchi). Also has a punky upstart partner (Iwata) and eccentric genius inventor (Miyamoto).
 
B

bgassassin

Member
GUUUUUUYYYSSS!!!

I ended up in the weird part of Youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb0h0c6p93A

O_O

I can't stop watching it.

japtor said:
More efficient at working with what he's got, not as strong (conventional power) but extra smarts (extra fixed function hardware) make up for it. Parents tragically killed in his youth (Yokoi) but has been taken care of by the old butler (Yamauchi). Also has a punky upstart partner (Iwata) and eccentric genius inventor (Miyamoto).
Click to expand...

Uncanny!
 
B

Bluemercury

Member
MYE said:
Oh shit, Alien is starting.

Now i dont know if i should play Dead Space 2 or watch the movie they ripped off lol

Edit: i love the name they gave it in my country, "The 8th Passanger"

Edit2: if i had a Wii U i could watch the movie AND play the game on my tablet! Hey? Hey? *wink
Click to expand...
Portugal?
 
S

StreetsAhead

Member
Ok, bored so doing HylianTom's survey.

1) Price? US$349.99, 399.99 Euro, JP￥35,000, AU$449.99

2) Release date? (US) Nov 18th, (EU) Nov 16th, (JP) Nov 16th, (AU) Nov 24th

3) Bullshit xbox360-based Multiplier Equivalent? 2.5X

4) Nintendo conference surprise(s)?
-Voice Forum and Step Forum unveiling explodes internet.
-The Last Guardian, new Retro IP, adventure/TPS
-New 3DS Donkey Kong, Metroid and/or Zelda unveiling.
-Western AAA 3rd Party exclusive/co-production(s) for Wii U and/or 3DS
-ED2 from Silicon Knights
-Ice Climbers/Balloon Fight/Star Tropics revival

5) Predict Miyamoto's role/costume/appearance context in this year's show.
-Pikmin 3 on-stage demo, will wear a Pikmin hat like 3DS Miis can.

6) Any special MS or Sony predictions?
-Sony: Vita games, focus on TLoU, GoW:A
-Microsoft: Kinect, COD, Halo 4, sneak announcement of next gen with CG target renders fanboys cling to as real in-game footage.

7) You know we're going to hear some, umm, interesting excuses from third parties. So.. what'll be your favorite?
-We want to wait until the user base matures before committing to a full budget AAA title on the platform due to the unique nature of the hardware.

8) Any special E3 plans/arrangements of your own? Taking off from work?
-Staying up late, working on my night cheese in my snuggie.

9) Your favorite bullshit gaming media critique of Nintendo's performance at E3 this year? -New IPs don't appeal to me. Unconventional control methods could hampen their success.

10) Your own predicted complaint/peeve/angering issue regarding Nintendo's E3 performance this year?
-Not enough Pikmin 3.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
bgassassin said:
...


I assumed he was referring to how close the multiple were. Using Gahiggidy's post I'd believe it would be more like:

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 12x 360
PS4 .. 10x 360



I agree. When you don't the variable(s) it makes it tough to properly comprehend it. I prefer to learn about the hardware and project the level of output it's capable of.
Click to expand...
That would be terribly disappointing to me, if that turns out to be reality. Nintendo would be closer to a system released in 2005 than it would be to one released one year later.

If that ratio hold true and , let's assume to B.O.M. for Wii U is $250, than the new Xbox would cost...

$602.50

...assuming a multiple of 2.41 based on your 5:12 ratio.
 
C

Caramello

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Ken Levine because I would be able to buy his Wii U game at launch. Seriously, a game with that much depth in the lineup means you can afford to have your first party 'M' rated fair, ie Eternal Darkness, slip into the spring of 2013.

-----

About the x*360 speculation. I really have a hard time believing the Wii U will end up closer to the 360 than to the "720" successor. One, Nintendo is building this from the ground up like they did with GCN. They are going to squeeze as much performance per dollar as they can get with today's available technology. And two, Microsoft and Sony only have an extra year to build their boxes. They won't have access to dramatically more modern chipsets.

My speculation:

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 7x 360
PS4 .. 6x 360

But putting aside x* units, I expect Wii U to have 75% the real world performance of the new Xbox, while Sony's machine will be around 90%.
Click to expand...

For Nintendo's Wii U to be exactly equal distance between the 360 and the next generation XBOX it'd have to be between 3x and 3.5x the power of the 360 assuming that the next generation XBOX is between 9x and 12x the power of the 360. If the Wii U is below 3x the power of the 360 then it would be closer to the 360 than the next generation XBOX.

I think we'll see a Wii U that is the same leap over the 360 as the next generation XBOX is over the Wii U. I also think Sony will be closer to Microsoft than to Nintendo.

Gahiggidy said:
That would be terribly disappointing to me, if that turns out to be reality. Nintendo would be closer to a system released in 2005 than it would be to one released one year later.
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't. Under the following;

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 12x 360
PS4 .. 10x 360

The 'XBOX3' would only be 2.4x the power of the Wii U whereas the Wii U would be 5x the power of the 360.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Caramello said:
For Nintendo's Wii U to be exactly equal distance between the 360 and the next generation XBOX it'd have to be between 3x and 3.5x the power of the 360 assuming that the next generation XBOX is between 9x and 12x the power of the 360. If the Wii U is below 3x the power of the 360 then it would be closer to the 360 than the next generation XBOX.

I think we'll see a Wii U that is the same leap over the 360 as the next generation XBOX is over the Wii U. I also think Sony will be closer to Microsoft than to Nintendo.


No it wouldn't. Under the following;

Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 12x 360
PS4 .. 10x 360

The 'XBOX3' would only be 2.4x the power of the Wii U whereas the Wii U would be 5x the power of the 360.
Click to expand...

Your math is misleading.

Code: 
12345678
=A=B===C

In the above visual of a performance metric, B is twice A, and C is twice B, but is very apparent that B is closer in performance to A than it is to C.


edit: Just for clarity, applying the metric to the 5x/12x thing

3===U======N

"U" (the Wii U) is 5x "3" (the Xbox 360), and "N" (the "Next" Xbox) is 12x the Xbox 360. It is very, very apparent that the Wii U is closer in performance to the Xbox 360 than it is to its successor in this example.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Would it be correct to assume the cost to manufacture a wuc is is about the same as it it to make a kinect?
 
C

Chet Rippo

Member
cantstopthetrainsgpf9.gif
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
2K can't even make a competent System Shock successor. I wouldn't want them near Metroid.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Would it be correct to assume the cost to manufacture a wuc is is about the same as it it to make a kinect?
Click to expand...

Kinect is two cameras and a microphone.

Wii U's controller is: A camera, a resistive LCD screen, two speakers, a microphone, some sort of not quite known wireless transceiver, simple chips to mux/demux the camera and video signal, a built-in (probably Lithium-ion?) battery, and a stylus. Also the usual stuff on a controller.

In short… *shrugs* The battery might make it more expensive, but I really have no clue.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
AzureJericho said:
I feel both amazed and terrified that I can hear the VA and N64 compressed sound effects in my head watching this gif.

Fucking hell, StarFox 64 was amazing.
Click to expand...

Same. Best voice acting in a video game ever.

At the very least, the most memorable (even excluding do a barrel roll, which has reached mainstream meme status).
 
E

EDarkness

Member
This x power metric just won't go away, will it? I can't even believe you guys are even still discussing it. Must be a slow day.
 
Z

z0m3le

Banned
bgassassin said:
Wii U .. 5x 360
Xbox3 .. 12x 360
PS4 .. 10x 360

I agree. When you don't the variable(s) it makes it tough to properly comprehend it. I prefer to learn about the hardware and project the level of output it's capable of.
Click to expand...

What I find funny about those numbers, is that the xbox3(@2.41x Wii U) would have nearly exactly the amount of power required to output 1080p(~2.25x) of what the Wii U offers at 720p.

The numbers are pointless though, I can't believe we are still talking about them, it would mean that the Wii U is @ 1.2 Tflops (GPU) and the Xbox3 has all the same features with 2.9Tflops (GPU)

That is comparable to these AMD cards:

Wii U: HD7770 TDP: 80watt (for full card with memory)
Xbox3: HD7950 TDP: 180watt (for full card with memory, no die shrink ready until 2015)

Those numbers are a bit outrageous for the Xbox though. Luckily both cards can cut probably 30% of the TDP numbers thanks to not needing compute units/memory;
leaving the Wii U's GPU under 60 watt TDP and Xbox 3's GPU under 130 watts.

That doesn't take into account the rest of the hardware, or the fact that Xbox to Xbox360 was only a 6x GPU increase, Xbox3 is expected to be twice the hardware jump of those two systems, that is a bit crazy.

I see the GPU break down being more like this:
Wii U: 768 Gflops - 1200 Gflops
PS4: 1000 Gflops - 1500 Gflops (possible 2nd GPU for computing IE physics)
Xbox3: 1200 Gflops - 1800 Gflops (possible 2nd GPU for computing IE physics)
 
B

Bagu

Member
Someone needs to photoshop Pachter's face over that dude.
His gloom and doom can't stop our hype!
Only the sad reality of the conference can!
 
B

bgassassin

Member
Gahiggidy said:
That would be terribly disappointing to me, if that turns out to be reality. Nintendo would be closer to a system released in 2005 than it would be to one released one year later.

If that ratio hold true and , let's assume to B.O.M. for Wii U is $250, than the new Xbox would cost...

$602.50

...assuming a multiple of 2.41 based on your 5:12 ratio.
Click to expand...

Coincidentally a $600 BoM is what I was thinking when I was making those MS posts. That would included hardware, Kinect, and controller. But in the past the margin between their estimated BoM and retail has been larger. But yeah, using your metric that's how I would see it.

EDarkness said:
This x power metric just won't go away, will it? I can't even believe you guys are even still discussing it. Must be a slow day.
Click to expand...

Aye!

z0m3le said:
What I find funny about those numbers, is that the xbox3(@2.41x Wii U) would have nearly exactly the amount of power required to output 1080p(~2.25x) of what the Wii U offers at 720p.

The numbers are pointless though, I can't believe we are still talking about them, it would mean that the Wii U is @ 1.2 Tflops (GPU) and the Xbox3 has all the same features with 2.9Tflops (GPU)

That is comparable to these AMD cards:

Wii U: HD7770 TDP: 80watt (for full card with memory)
Xbox3: HD7950 TDP: 180watt (for full card with memory, no die shrink ready until 2015)

Those numbers are a bit outrageous for the Xbox though. Luckily both cards can cut probably 30% of the TDP numbers thanks to not needing compute units/memory;
leaving the Wii U's GPU under 60 watt TDP and Xbox 3's GPU under 130 watts.

That doesn't take into account the rest of the hardware, or the fact that Xbox to Xbox360 was only a 6x GPU increase, Xbox3 is expected to be twice the hardware jump of those two systems, that is a bit crazy.

I see the GPU break down being more like this:
Wii U: 768 Gflops - 1200 Gflops
PS4: 1000 Gflops - 1500 Gflops (possible 2nd GPU for computing IE physics)
Xbox3: 1200 Gflops - 1800 Gflops (possible 2nd GPU for computing IE physics)
Click to expand...

That multiplier isn't based on FLOPs. If it were I definitely would have used different (smaller) numbers.

And PS4's GPU is on target for 1800+ GFLOPs.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
z0m3le said:
What I find funny about those numbers, is that the xbox3(@2.41x Wii U) would have nearly exactly the amount of power required to output 1080p(~2.25x) of what the Wii U offers at 720p.
Click to expand...
Yup! I noticed this earlier today.. if the 720 is only 2 or 3 times more powerful than the U, I think our chances of seeing downports are so much better than we saw this generation (when the gap was much, much wider). Reasons for porting or not porting to the U are going to be more interesting than ever!
 
M

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
bgassassin said:
That seems to be exactly what the $15/mo will include.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you have to pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go, etc. separately. Microsoft would have to include their own service. It's a good idea if they're really wanting to go after Apple, but afaik they haven't announced anything. I could be wrong though.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Why are we discussing the Xbox 360 subscription plan in this thread?
 
Z

z0m3le

Banned
bgassassin said:
That multiplier isn't based on FLOPs. If it were I definitely would have used different (smaller) numbers.

And PS4's GPU is on target for 1800+ GFLOPs.
Click to expand...

Is that taking into account an AMD APU with on-chip second GPU? or is that whatever the dedicated GPU would be? Sounds like it could be comparable to an HD7850 if true; though of course it would be a custom part, still I like to look at those types of comparisons.

Also that is nearly 8x the 360's GPU. (of course just a rough and dirty comparison)
 
B

bgassassin

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
I'm pretty sure you have to pay for Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go, etc. separately. Microsoft would have to include their own service. It's a good idea if they're really wanting to go after Apple, but afaik they haven't announced anything. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

From the subscription thread:

We're told that the two-year subscription will provide access to the Xbox Live Gold service and possibly some additional streaming content from cable providers or sports package providers.
Click to expand...

Gahiggidy said:
Why are we discussing the Xbox 360 subscription plan in this thread?
Click to expand...

Probably because it's slow right now.

z0m3le said:
Is that taking into account an AMD APU with on-chip second GPU? or is that whatever the dedicated GPU would be? Sounds like it could be comparable to an HD7850 if true; though of course it would be a custom part, still I like to look at those types of comparisons.

Also that is nearly 8x the 360's GPU. (of course just a rough and dirty comparison)
Click to expand...

I'm going by target specs, not the rumors.

18CUs @ 800Mhz = 1843 GFLOPs
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
One month til the big day.

I think it's time to get my bingo card ready. It's no fun when too much is leaked.

Eca8B.png



I'll probably get 5, tops.
 
M

MDX

Member
HylianTom said:
Yup! I noticed this earlier today.. if the 720 is only 2 or 3 times more powerful than the U, I think our chances of seeing downports are so much better than we saw this generation (when the gap was much, much wider). Reasons for porting or not porting to the U are going to be more interesting than ever!
Click to expand...


WiiU will not get exclusive MS titles, so no down ports.
WiiU will be baseline for third parties, if its a success.
Possibly regardless.

The writing is on the wall this gen. Cost of game development are just too much.
Publishers are probably happy to get their games on three consoles this time
and will make minimal adjustments for each (kinect support / tablet support / ?)
They will probably go for 720p, 30fps, and more effects.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I was just noticing that 10% of this thread was burned up in 1-day and 17 hours.
 
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