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Corronchilejano · May 20, 2015

Found her name but didn't find anything anything specific about the case:

http://gothamist.com/2015/05/20/columbia_rape_protest_posters.php

Early this morning, an anonymous person or persons put up posters around Columbia Universityin the 116th Street subway station, outside of Tom's Restaurant, on stoplights and construction wallsemblazoned with the image of student Emma Sulkowicz and her now-iconic mattress. Since September 2014, Sulkowicz has been dragging the mattress around campus as a protest against the school's handling of her rape allegations against another student. (That student, Paul Nungesser, has since sued the university.) This morning's posters accuse Sulkowicz of making it all up, dismissing her as "Pretty Little Liar" with the caption "Emma Sulkowitz" [sic] and "RapeHoax."

Today's stunt coincides with Columbia's commencement ceremony, and follows on the heels of yesterday's College Class Day ceremony, during which Sulkowicz carried her dorm room mattress across the stage. The NY Times reports that President Lee C. Bollinger refused to shake her hand when she passed, as he had done with all the other studentsincluding Nungesser, who crossed the stage minutes before her.

This afternoon, the person or persons behind the posters told am New York via Twitter, "We want to educate people about fake rape claims & how damaging they are. From UVA to Columbia to UMiami, due process matters."

Lambtron · May 20, 2015

Absolutely disgusting, albeit unsurprising.

jtb · May 20, 2015

It's disgusting.

Guevara · May 20, 2015

Whatever happened with the lawsuit?

Corronchilejano · May 20, 2015

Guevara said:
Whatever happened with the lawsuit?

If you mean the Nungesser lawsuit, it's still ongoing. Since the details of the investigation haven't been revelead (other than a few alleged facebook posts) it's difficult to know what's happening.

Makonero · May 20, 2015

I don't know what to think anymore.

Zabka · May 20, 2015

Here's the complaint in the lawsuit against Columbia.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/262956362/Nungesser-Filed-Complaint#scribd

This whole thing is gross.

Fotheringay · May 20, 2015

Zabka said:
Here's the complaint in the lawsuit against Columbia.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/262956362/Nungesser-Filed-Complaint#scribd

This whole thing is gross.

I have no idea how you read this thing and don't leave raging. He gets cleared 3 times, even with Columbia excluding evidence in his favor, and yet his education and possibly career are irrevocably fucked due to them folding for PR reasons.

Valhelm · May 20, 2015

Guevara said:
Whatever happened with the lawsuit?

The school says he didn't do it, probably believing him because the alleged victim was still involved and actively interested with him after it happened. That doesn't mean it was necessarily consensual, though.

My guess is that Sulkowicz is not lying, and that the perpetrator certainly didn't intend to rape her. I highly doubt that he went to sleep that night thinking "I am now a rapist", and it seems that Sulkowicz did not considered her a victim until afterward.

Regardless, this current campaign is gross against Sulkowicz is gross.

Mammoth Jones · May 20, 2015

This is why issues like this need to be dealt with via the legal process and not in the court of public outrage or the media.

SD-Ness · May 20, 2015

Zabka said:
Here's the complaint in the lawsuit against Columbia.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/262956362/Nungesser-Filed-Complaint#scribd

This whole thing is gross.

Interesting read. Crazy how much of their electronic conversations are in the brief. These Columbia students type like my friends and I when we were in middle school.

Fuchsdh · May 20, 2015

Mammoth Jones said:
This is why issues like this need to be dealt with via the legal process and not in the court of public outrage or the media.

I agree, but I think it's unlikely to happen. Campus rape activists will never push for that, because of the (understandable) feeling that this will just mean less rapists get punished as it requires people to go to the police, which many are reluctant to do, and the very nature of how rape cases are often just he said/she said. They want to keep it as a Title IX issue because they want to kick out alleged rapists on lower thresholds than the criminal system, and probably because it's far easier to hold college's feet to the fire about these sorts of things.

Pretty nasty for people to use the same tactics that they're criticizing the activists for, though (they were putting the alleged rapist's name in bathrooms around campus and such.)

iamblades · May 21, 2015

Fuchsdh said:
I agree, but I think it's unlikely to happen. Campus rape activists will never push for that, because of the (understandable) feeling that this will just mean less rapists get punished as it requires people to go to the police, which many are reluctant to do, and the very nature of how rape cases are often just he said/she said. They want to keep it as a Title IX issue because they want to kick out alleged rapists on lower thresholds than the criminal system, and probably because it's far easier to hold college's feet to the fire about these sorts of things.

Pretty nasty for people to use the same tactics that they're criticizing the activists for, though (they were putting the alleged rapist's name in bathrooms around campus and such.)

Then those campus rape activists need to be called out on their bullshit.

There is a reason we have things like due process and burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty. We decided as a society long ago that it was better for some guilty people to go free than for innocents to be punished. You can't just roll that shit back because of the level of the accusation. Rape, murder, shoplifting, the rights are and should be the same.

These college campus kangaroo courts need to be banned ASAP(eventually the lawsuits from the falsely accused will stack up to the point it becomes unworkable, but there is no reason not to just ban them completely anyway).

norm9 · May 21, 2015

Fotheringay said:
I have no idea how you read this thing and don't leave raging. He gets cleared 3 times, even with Columbia excluding evidence in his favor, and yet his education and possibly career are irrevocably fucked due to them folding for PR reasons.

Yikes.

Cybit · May 21, 2015

Mammoth Jones said:
This is why issues like this need to be dealt with via the legal process and not in the court of public outrage or the media.

I'm pretty sure that I don't want the administrators who think the ncaa is a good, upstanding and moral idea being in charge of anything that's a criminal manner. This push to make colleges deal with things is responsibility shifting and trying to avoid having to fix the actual issue at hand (that rape is handled poorly by the justice system). They're giving it to one of the places exponentially more incompetent, immoral, and flat out uncaring - the NCAA.

pigeon · May 21, 2015

iamblades said:
Then those campus rape activists need to be called out on their bullshit.

There is a reason we have things like due process and burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty. We decided as a society long ago that it was better for some guilty people to go free than for innocents to be punished. You can't just roll that shit back because of the level of the accusation. Rape, murder, shoplifting, the rights are and should be the same.

Then your strategy should be to improve the horrifically poor record our justice system has with regards to investigating and prosecuting rape.

It should be pretty obvious that secondary courts like these (and indeed art projects and media firestorms) are a result of people believing that the justice system will not serve them when it comes to sexual assault. (Even if you think she's lying, if there wasn't a history of failure on the part of the justice system, there wouldn't be a cause to latch onto here.) If you can't get through the door, you try the window.

kiunchbb · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
Then your strategy should be to improve the horrifically poor record our justice system has with regards to investigating and prosecuting rape.

It should be pretty obvious that secondary courts like these (and indeed art projects and media firestorms) are a result of people believing that the justice system will not serve them when it comes to sexual assault. (Even if you think she's lying, if there wasn't a history of failure on the part of the justice system, there wouldn't be a cause to latch onto here.) If you can't get through the door, you try the window.

So if you got accused of rape, and the court ruled you not guilty. Would you think it is fair for the others side to start a viral campaign ruining your reputation?

Would you be okay that your co worker and relatives start treating you as unpunished rapist just because a bunch of people think our justice/investigation system isn't "100% fool-proof"?

Let's just make social media our court, whoever got the most up vote wins the suit.

Somnid · May 21, 2015

What a shit-show this has become. There is no reason this should have been a university issue and hopefully universities will just push these issues over to the police where it belongs.

The Technomancer · May 21, 2015

kiunchbb said:
So if you got accused of rape, and the court ruled you not guilty. Would you think it is fair for the others side to start a viral campaign ruining your reputation?

Would you be okay that your co worker and relatives start treating you as unpunished rapist just because a bunch of people think our justice/investigation system isn't "100% fool-proof"?

Let's just make social media our court, whoever got the most up vote wins the suit.

The system isn't just "not 100% fool proof" but actively broken. The current problem with public rape accusations might become less of an issue if private rape accusations ever went anywhere

entremet · May 21, 2015

Somnid said:
What a shit-show this has become. There is no reason this should have been a university issue and hopefully universities will just push these issues over to the police where it belongs.

The issue is that Title IX requires the university to do something.

Personally, I think it's very flawed. These are not trained law enforcement personnel, and the lack of due process is flawed.

Originally, the reason for involving the university was because police departments didn't take college rape seriously.

There were deep biases of "Well they were drunk" "Boys are gonna be boys" etc.

However, universities have proved to be absolutely incompetent in these matters as well.

Calamari41 · May 21, 2015

If one side of a "he said/she said" is celebrated for using viral marketing to make themselves heard, shouldn't the other side be able to use similar methods?

Exactly why this method of "justice" is so perverse.

remist · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
Then your strategy should be to improve the horrifically poor record our justice system has with regards to investigating and prosecuting rape.

It should be pretty obvious that secondary courts like these (and indeed art projects and media firestorms) are a result of people believing that the justice system will not serve them when it comes to sexual assault. (Even if you think she's lying, if there wasn't a history of failure on the part of the justice system, there wouldn't be a cause to latch onto here.) If you can't get through the door, you try the window.

Seeing as they think even the universities current kangaroo court system already has too much due process, its all the more important that we "call them out on their bullshit" so they don't poison the well for actual productive judicial reforms.

Reading that report, the university, Sulkowitz and campus activist behavior is disgusting. This is not one to be held up as an example.

Somnid · May 21, 2015

entrement said:
The issue is that Title IX requires the university to do something.

Personally, I think it's very flawed. These are not trained law enforcement personnel, and the lack of due process is flawed.

Originally, the reason for involving the university was because police departments didn't take college rape seriously.

However, universities have proved to be absolutely incompetent in these matters as well.

The university should defer any judgement dependent on the outcome of a court case. It's frustrating because universities are not equipped to deal with this and furthermore have no oversight of fairness. Basically, if that was the reasoning it's a failed experiment and there's no point continuing.

Gallbaro · May 21, 2015

Turnabout is fair play?

Fenderputty · May 21, 2015

There's all sorts of fucked up going on from multiple perspectives.

Jenov · May 21, 2015

Kinda weird they let her carry the mattress into official graduations and stuff.

jtb · May 21, 2015

Prost said:
Kinda weird they let her carry the mattress into official graduations and stuff.

The negative publicity wouldn't have been worth it. Also, it's all outdoors.

Chumly · May 21, 2015

Zabka said:
Here's the complaint in the lawsuit against Columbia.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/262956362/Nungesser-Filed-Complaint#scribd

This whole thing is gross.

Sounds like the girl should be in jail.

Kimawolf · May 21, 2015

Yeah this is nuts. This dudes life is ruined now and people are saying what's happening to her is gross? She is still allowed to go on TV saying he raped her, he should sue her too. If I'm not found to have done anything after 3 investigations you better damn well fix my life.

Jarmel · May 21, 2015

Can't blame the university response when she's doing shit like dragging her mattress across stage at graduation.

He's been cleared three separate times.

GameGuru59 · May 21, 2015

I still don't understand why universities are adjudicating these things at all. Universities should wash their hands of this responsibility and let the police deal with these felonies.

Jarmel · May 21, 2015

Kimawolf said:
Yeah this is nuts. This dudes life is ruined now and people are saying what's happening tobhet is gross? She is still allowed to go on TV saying he raped her, he should sue her too. If I'm not found to have done anything after 3 investigations you better damn well fix my life.

At some point I'm imagining he has a good argument to sue her for slander.

pigeon · May 21, 2015

kiunchbb said:
So if you got accused of rape, and the court ruled you not guilty. Would you think it is fair for the others side to start a viral campaign ruining your reputation?

That would depend on whether I did it or not.

kiunchbb said:
Would you be okay that your co worker and relatives start treating you as unpunished rapist just because a bunch of people think our justice/investigation system isn't "100% fool-proof"?

Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

ReturnOfTheRAT · May 21, 2015

No one looks good

Dude Abides · May 21, 2015

GameGuru59 said:
I still don't understand why universities are adjudicating these things at all. Universities should wash their hands of this responsibility and let the police deal with these felonies.

Why shouldn't universities deal with allegations of violations of their code of conduct?

Barrage · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
That would depend on whether I did it or not.

Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

That kind of rationale is how a lot of innocent people have had their lives destroyed.

GameGuru59 · May 21, 2015

Dude Abides said:
Why shouldn't universities deal with allegations of violations of their code of conduct?

Any felony should be passed to the police. Universities shouldn't even attempt to deal with them.

Fenderputty · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

Really?

Jenov · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
That would depend on whether I did it or not.

Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

Ew. No.

And after reading the full legal brief, he should pursue slander against her as well.

metalslimer · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
That would depend on whether I did it or not.

Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

What the fuck this is as bad as straight up ignoring rape.

JesseEwiak · May 21, 2015

kiunchbb said:
So if you got accused of rape, and the court ruled you not guilty. Would you think it is fair for the others side to start a viral campaign ruining your reputation?

Would you be okay that your co worker and relatives start treating you as unpunished rapist just because a bunch of people think our justice/investigation system isn't "100% fool-proof"?

Let's just make social media our court, whoever got the most up vote wins the suit.

I don't know, let's ask OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony about this.

Tagyhag · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

That's a scary ass thought, I hope the majority of rational people don't think like this.

Bladenic · May 21, 2015

She brought this upon herself. Not gonna say she deserves this, but her actions caused it.

The president not shaking her hand, that one must sting a bit. And I think he should've just shaken her hand, but his choice.

Brakke · May 21, 2015

She's probably pretty jacked by now, good core workout. Maybe fucked up her back though? Mattresses pretty unwieldy, she's probably lifted with bad form a lot.

Tallshortman · May 21, 2015

Tagyhag said:
That's a scary ass thought, I hope the majority of rational people don't think like this.

You'd be surprised by how many people fully invested in the outrage culture think this way. False rape allegations immensely harm both real rape accusers and the innocent.

Apparently the fact that he's been investigated and cleared several times is not evidence to some people.

TheOMan · May 21, 2015

pigeon said:
That would depend on whether I did it or not.

Frankly, if his coworkers and relatives, the people who know him the best, think the claim is plausible enough to shun him, then I think that's evidence in itself.

That is not good.

Jarmel · May 21, 2015

Tallshortman said:
Apparently the fact that he's been investigated and cleared several times is not evidence to some people.

I think there's something to be said about the investigations potentially being flawed, at least in her eyes, but she should be taking that up in a courtroom or some other appropriate approach. Not doing things like dragging your mattress on stage on graduation which certainly don't help her get justice.

JesseEwiak · May 21, 2015

Tallshortman said:
You'd be surprised by how many people fully invested in the outrage culture think this way. False rape allegations immensely harm both real rape accusers and the innocent.

Apparently the fact that he's been investigated and cleared several times is not evidence to some people.

What's actually hurting rape victims is "anti-pc" people acting like there's an epidemic of false rape allegations. I mean, if I believed Reddit, I'd think every other woman was planning on sleeping with me, then crying rape.

I think there's something to be said about the investigations potentially being flawed, at least in her eyes, but she should be taking that up in a courtroom or some other appropriate approach. Not doing things like dragging your mattress on stage on graduation which certainly don't help her get justice.

If you believe justice is never going to come for you, the only thing you can do is speak out for others. Real change has never come from people being quiet and doing the 'appropriate' thing.

Not · May 21, 2015

Bladenic said:
She brought this upon herself. Not gonna say she deserves this, but her actions caused it.

You just did.

No woman deserves any of this. In fact, why not take the word "deserves" out of your Goddamn vocabulary in this and all similar scenarios.

Hasphat'sAnts · May 21, 2015

JesseEwiak said:
I don't know, let's ask OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony about this.

There was enough evidence to lead to a formal trial for both.

NYPD declined to press charges out of hand. What does that tell you?

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