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PS4 pwr 40%> XB1? M.Nelson: "very much looking forward to [when] the truth comes out"

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K

Krusenstern

Banned
Y2Kev said:
Why are they even talking about this? Their original message was that any gap was irrelevant, that targeting high-end specs was not the point of the console and that it delivered a unique experience with its other unique selling points (Kinect, Xbox Live). Now all these tiny spec bumps are getting space in PR releases and all the public mouthpieces are talking about how there is no gap anyway.

Just stop talking about it. Have the focus groups come back with other information? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

Well, it was during the time they originally planned to release this console with 24 hour online checks, physical games tied to accounts, family share plans etc. and tried to sell this as value.

Now that they dropped all of this and the console is nothing more than a more expensive, weaker alternative to the PS4 it's understandable that they're now trying to make the spec differences seem negligable, which isn't actually the case. It's pathetic.
 
M

maverick40

Junior Member
Pirzolaman said:
What I want to know is, lets say the ps4 version of multi platform games will be better (Digitalfoundry facts etc.), what will Major and Albert say then? How will they spin it?
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The "experience" is better on the Xbone because of Kinect integration and Xbox live. Their pr bollocks is so easy
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
Gareth Bale said:
Outside of multiplatform games I'm not sure about better, but he does make an interesting point.
Click to expand...

I think there's a difference between saying you have more power and 1) don't or 2) nobody's really sure because shit looks equal and actually having more powerful hardware.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
KaiserBecks said:
So? I prefer Sony's approach, but that doesn't mean the parts they used are all of a sudden considered high end. On the other hand, one could argue that it's strange to see an "entertainment box" still being that close to a system which primarily focuses on being the most powerful console on the market. But please, don't let us go there.
Click to expand...

Well, it isn't that close as long as you're looking at the actual facts and not what MS wants you to believe. That's a fairly sizable gap between the two consoles.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
KaiserBecks said:
So? I prefer Sony's approach, but that doesn't mean the parts they used are all of a sudden considered high end. On the other hand, one could argue that it's strange to see an "entertainment box" still being that close to a system which primarily focuses on being the most powerful console on the market. But please, don't let us go there.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I see your point? Microsoft said they're not concerning themselves with specs, Sony said they wanted to make the most powerful games console ever.

A few months later and Albert is telling us "Well - PC guys on GAF will tell you Sony haven't targeted high end either" - even though that's not quite what Sony said.

And considering MS weren't focusing on specs they were very, VERY forthcoming about boosts in both the GPU and CPU power in their machine.

This is PR in a nutshell. Microsoft are trying to control the conversation and have it on THEIR terms.
 
F

FINALBOSS

Banned
Jack_AG said:
When the truth comes out. What is this... Area 51?

All just PR BS. If they have better hardware - they would be screaming it already. No reason to hide it.

Just keep handing out them straws to your fans, guys. Will totally work.
Click to expand...

No shit what do they need to do some crazy research?

Why wait for this "truth to come out" when they can just come out and say it right then and there. It's just all PR bullshit.
 
C

Caddle

Member
Only if the fanboys had jump off a bridge after the launch of the two last gen system, this wouldn't be going on right now.
 
R

ramb0211

Banned
Sony made a really shitty platform with the ps3, both software and hardware-wise. Everybody hated working on the ps3 this Gen, so I'd have very little trouble believing consoles releasing at the same time will be closer in real-world performance than the 360/ps3 were. Sony has said a lot of the right things and people have let them off the hook for the disaster that was the ps3, but the games still aren't there and we haven't any idea how things will play out with development in the long run.
 
Y

ypo

Member
It's OK. What's more important is the 9% CPU boost. That's matters and way more important than 40% power difference. We must let the world know of that 9%. Da Truth!

Seems basic math is not MS PR's strong point.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Amir0x said:
I really wouldn't expect anything. As a gamer I hope they have such as thing, but I really don't think the probability is high.
Click to expand...

The probability of a second GPU is zero, from all possible vectors of evidence or speculation. This rumor has its origins in "misterxmedia"'s blog, and I think this guy is a fake/parody. It's crazy that we have to dignify it with an actual response.

  1. First, there is no silicon budget left in the XB1's APU to account for a second GPU.
  2. Second, there is no other chip on the XB1's board big enough to be a GPU. There is just the APU and its cooler.
  3. Third, there is absolutely no architectural rationale to go for an APU with the intent of profiting from low manufacturing costs over the console's lifetime just to re-add manufacturing costs with a second GPU.
  4. Fourth, a second GPU pretty much completely contradicts the architectural paradigm present in the XB1, especially its memory system.
  5. Fifth, a second GPU would be the very thing that Microsoft would have announced and championed from the very beginning. They mentioned their upclocks, they confirmed the 1,31TF for the GPU, they even had the AV-Out component represented on their system architecture slide at their HotChips talk. But they purposefully hid a second GPU? In which world would that make sense?
This is just the latest evolution in a long list of rumors from dual APUs to 12GB of RAM.
 
I

inner-G

Banned
Pirzolaman said:
What I want to know is, lets say the ps4 version of multi platform games will be better (Digitalfoundry facts etc.), what will Major and Albert say then? How will they spin it?
Click to expand...
Even though it looks better and has no tearing, you can't SNAP to the football game from the PS4 version, so it's technically inferior.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
I don't think it implies that they are hiding anything significant, such as a second GPU or anything insane like that. At best there's some pretty interesting architectural details about the Xbox One GPU and architecture that people knew nothing about that will enhance the appreciation of what's under the hood a good deal.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
jond76 said:
You should either post the whole quote or a link. I think he also mentioned that it might not be the one you think. Or something to that effect.

Watching this whole thing unfold is quite amusing.
Click to expand...

Several Sony employees tweeted that article. They've said they've been talking to third parties and several are saying that the games are running better on PS4. The devs won't say anything specific before launch but it seems pretty clear which platform they mean.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
PR blib-blab aside, I fully expect both consoles to offer essentially the same experience in terms of graphics and performance. For me, the PS4 is the product that aligns with my own needs/expectations - yet I can see how the Xbox1 has much to offer someone with a different set of criteria.

Penello's adventures in this forum were unfortunate in that they were, I think, completely unnecessary. Barging into conversations (which often weren't more representative beyond the tiny number of people participating) and spouting specious arguments about as-yet-to-be-revealed secret powers doesn't elevate or inform anything or anyone. Better to let the product speak for itself.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
ElTorro said:
The probability of a second GPU is zero, from all possible vectors of evidence or speculation. This rumor has its origins in "misterxmedia"'s blog, and I think this guy is a fake/parody. It's crazy that we have to dignify it with an actual response.

  1. First, there is no silicon budget left in the XB1's APU to account for a second GPU.
  2. Second, there is no other chip on the XB1's board big enough to be a GPU. There is just the APU and its cooler.
  3. Third, there is absolutely no architectural rationale to go for an APU with the intent of profiting from low manufacturing costs over the console's lifetime just to re-add manufacturing costs with a second GPU.
  4. Fourth, a second GPU pretty much completely contradicts the architectural paradigm present in the XB1, especially its memory system.
  5. Fifth, a second GPU would be the very thing that Microsoft would have announced and championed from the very beginning. They mentioned their upclocks, they confirmed the 1,31TF for the GPU, they even had the AV-Out component represented on their system architecture slide at their HotChips talk. But they purposefully hid a second GPU? In which world would that make sense?
This is just the latest evolution in a long list of rumors from dual APUs to 12GB of RAM.
Click to expand...

This is a very informative post and I didn't know about a lot of this. Thank you very much.

I think now the probability of it happening now is close to nill :p
 
Vire

Vire

Member
RoboPlato said:
Several Sony employees tweeted that article. They've said they've been talking to third parties and several are saying that the games are running better on PS4. The devs won't say anything specific before launch but it seems pretty clear which platform they mean.
Click to expand...

Secondly, EA has only been showing the PS4 version of the game at trade shows. I WONDER WHY.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
If the dual APU (lol) rumors are true then I guess we have to erect a monument to Reiko.
 
Reallink

Reallink

Member
Y2Kev said:
Why are they even talking about this? Their original message was that any gap was irrelevant, that targeting high-end specs was not the point of the console and that it delivered a unique experience with its other unique selling points (Kinect, Xbox Live). Now all these tiny spec bumps are getting space in PR releases and all the public mouthpieces are talking about how there is no gap anyway.

Just stop talking about it. Have the focus groups come back with other information? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

The preorder numbers came in.
 
P

Pain

Banned
It's just PR.

The PS4s performance advantage is actually 40%.(in terms of GPU)

I have no idea where this 30% figure comes from.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Y2Kev said:
Why are they even talking about this? Their original message was that any gap was irrelevant, that targeting high-end specs was not the point of the console and that it delivered a unique experience with its other unique selling points (Kinect, Xbox Live). Now all these tiny spec bumps are getting space in PR releases and all the public mouthpieces are talking about how there is no gap anyway.

Just stop talking about it. Have the focus groups come back with other information? I don't understand.
Click to expand...

Tracking probably shows that early consumers care about things like performance of third party titles. Microsoft sees tracking numbers that says that this type of advantage is influencing consumers purchasing decisions at a high enough level to justify including it in copy.

They get more hits from websites talking about how the Xbox is a percentage more powerful or that the two consoles are similar. That seems to be the message of the past few weeks.

"We are a powerful game console despite what empirical data says and that we are on track for launch with no yield issues despite delays of the Xbox One in 8 territories."
 
D

Demon Ice

Banned
Excited for Major Nelson to have a GAF account, that way we'll get the PR lies, deflections, and dodging before anybody else does!
 
J

Jeels

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Fuck this guy. Seriously, threads on comments from Major Nelson, Albert Penello and such just need to be closed. It causes a whole load of shit and we're supposed to accept their comments because they work for MS and are in a position of knowledge. Well fuck all of them, either show the goods and documentation of shut the fuck up. Just like every other GAF member.
Click to expand...

I agree, there's so much misinformation because of the garbage they spew.
 
M

Moobabe

Member
JABEE said:
Tracking probably shows that early consumers care about things like performance of third party titles. Microsoft sees tracking numbers that says that this type of advantage is influencing consumers purchasing decisions at a high enough level to justify including it in copy.

They get more hits from websites talking about how the Xbox is a percentage more powerful or that the two consoles are similar. That seems to be the message of the past few weeks.

"We are a powerful game console despite what empirical data says and that we are on track for launch with no yield issues despite delays of the Xbox One in 8 territories."
Click to expand...

Performance won't matter when you factor in early content for Battlefield, Call of Duty and exclusive content for FIFA. Not to mention Kinect and XBL.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
The way I interpreted his post wasn't that Xbox One is hiding some extra power, but the difference won't be as big as speculated. Major Nelson will use launch games to support this comment. We all know basing a systems true performance on launch titles is a bad idea.
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
ramb0211 said:
Sony made a really shitty platform with the ps3, both software and hardware-wise. Everybody hated working on the ps3 this Gen, so I'd have very little trouble believing consoles releasing at the same time will be closer in real-world performance than the 360/ps3 were. Sony has said a lot of the right things and people have let them off the hook for the disaster that was the ps3, but the games still aren't there and we haven't any idea how things will play out with development in the long run.
Click to expand...

For a shitty platform, it produced some of the current gens best looking games. Beyond coming out is really another mile stone way ahead of anything on an Xbox and probably will be for a long time. The underestimating Sony days are over. They have proven they have the skills and the talent to create games that are graphically able. So this upcoming gen, it will only get bigger. In fact, Microsoft has not shown anything besides Quantum Break that matches something like Infamous or the Dark Sorcerer or even the Order in terms of graphical output. In the long run, as things are heated up and the language is learn, we will see more.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
This is just PR mouthpieces playing to their base. Xbox fans will eat this sort of thing up, but most of us see through it.

I liked their earlier message better than this one. Saying that they weren't targeting the highest performance (by console standards) because they didn't think it was a huge differentiator was a defensible position. Now we're in the fall, projections aren't looking too rosy for them and they're trying to pretend that the power gap doesn't exist in the first place.

Not gonna' work.

ramb0211 said:
Sony made a really shitty platform with the ps3, both software and hardware-wise. Everybody hated working on the ps3 this Gen, so I'd have very little trouble believing consoles releasing at the same time will be closer in real-world performance than the 360/ps3 were. Sony has said a lot of the right things and people have let them off the hook for the disaster that was the ps3, but the games still aren't there and we haven't any idea how things will play out with development in the long run.
Click to expand...

We're not taking blind guesses at what's under the hood of these machines, though. The specs/performance have been known for months now. MS was able to make up a little ground with modest overclocks to the GPU/CPU, but there's still a pretty wide gap between the two. Also, because the two platforms are so similar in architecture, it's much easier to compare the two directly than it was with PS3 and 360.
 
E

Elios83

Member
They should just shut up.
These statements are just going to bite them back.
Unfortunately for them they just can't get their message straight.
Before it was "Specs alone are not important, infinite power of the cloud will make everything look much better,etc,etc" now they seem be in total panic to downplay any graphical/hardware differences, highlighting insignificant clock speeds bumps everywhere while the clouds have suddenly disappeared (because people didn't get fooled by that)...it's so obvious they're struggling...but changing their message every week and spreading FUD without concrete basis is not going to change things in their favour.
 
M

madmackem

Member
ramb0211 said:
Sony made a really shitty platform with the ps3, both software and hardware-wise. Everybody hated working on the ps3 this Gen, so I'd have very little trouble believing consoles releasing at the same time will be closer in real-world performance than the 360/ps3 were. Sony has said a lot of the right things and people have let them off the hook for the disaster that was the ps3, but the games still aren't there and we haven't any idea how things will play out with development in the long run.
Click to expand...

What do you mean the games still arnet there? have you seen how strong sony have supported the ps3 this year, i couldnt name you a first party game coming from ms from now till the launch of xbox one. Sony has games at launch for ps4 and as they have shown with ps3 they will support it with a wide breadth of first party content in the years to come.
 
A

Animator

Member
I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.
Click to expand...

No it really didn't I am sorry to say.
 
B

BleachAndPepsi

Banned
jond76 said:
You should either post the whole quote or a link. I think he also mentioned that it might not be the one you think. Or something to that effect.

Watching this whole thing unfold is quite amusing.
Click to expand...

But at the same time, you have guys like Mark Cerny saying on stage at Gamescom that the PS4 is the most powerful console. Period. No play on words. No BS.

And at E3, Jack Tretton said in an interview that all the third party developers are saying PS4 is the more powerful machine. Unless they're all playing a big practical joke on poor Jack, I don't see how he'd be misinformed.

I guess we'll find out.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
benny_a said:
Seems like we know the majority of specs. What graphical significant thing are we missing?

PS4 CPU is all I can think of.
Click to expand...

Yep. We have detailed architecture layouts of both consoles. The only piece we don't have is final confirmation of the PS4 CPU clock speed and what the exact OS reserves are for PS4.
 
P

Pain

Banned
bonesmccoy said:
PR blib-blab aside, I fully expect both consoles to offer essentially the same experience in terms of graphics and performance. For me, the PS4 is the product that aligns with my own needs/expectations - yet I can see how the Xbox1 has much to offer someone with a different set of criteria.

Penello's adventures in this forum were unfortunate in that they were, I think, completely unnecessary. Barging into conversations (which often weren't more representative beyond the tiny number of people participating) and spouting specious arguments about as-yet-to-be-revealed secret powers doesn't elevate or inform anything or anyone. Better to let the product speak for itself.
Click to expand...
Even if that we're true it would change anything. PS4 is still $100 cheaper. It being the most powerful is just icing on the cake.
 
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