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Planned DLC content for SFxTekken found on the original disc

mclem

Member
Bringing one Prince of Persia 2008 is a straw man because that's like what... one game, in which such a DLC epilogue was attempted. One game of note at least. It wasn't well received and it's all but forgotten now. It didn't cause every other AAA game in the subsequent 4 years to suddenly have $10 DLC epilogues.

I'm curious how many people who bring up The Epilogue have actually played it. I think they have a rather different view of what it actually consists of than the reality.

Assassin's Creed has a tendency for the subsequent game to pick up *immediately* where the previous one ends. Imagine if the DLC for AC1 consisted of the first missions of AC2, up to maybe the title card? That's about what The Epilogue consists of.
 

King_Moc

Banned
It's this kind of hyperbole that makes discussing the subject difficult.

"We are paying more for less".

Compared to what?

Compared to ten years ago, when a fighting game cost $50 - $60, usually had less characters than a current game, and aside from SFA3 - the one game constantly brought up to remind us "how we used to get so much more" virtually no games had any content besides an arcade mode, an offline versus mode, and maybe a training mode.

The perception that "we are paying more for less" and "incomplete" games comes from the fact that modern games sometimes have extra content to be sold after the game ships, regardless of where that content is located at. So we say "but, but, I bought an unfinished game because now there's MORE STUFF that I say should have been in it!"

Bringing one Prince of Persia 2008 is a straw man because that's like what... one game, in which such a DLC epilogue was attempted. One game of note at least. It wasn't well received and it's all but forgotten now. It didn't cause every other AAA game in the subsequent 4 years to suddenly have $10 DLC epilogues.

Did anyone stop to consider that the reason why the "dark times" of every game having a DLC ending is because people did vote with their wallets, and POP's DLC failed? (IIRC, it never seemed very popular.)

I just don't think there are any general trends of doom on the scale many folks try to make out. In the same time frame as a game like MVC3 going off the rails, we've seen multiple other releases in the genre that people weren't up in arms about, even though those games had DLC: Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters XIII, BlazeBlue CS Extend. Even SCV, which a lot of people rag on for not having arcade character endings, actually has a decent amount of content and we know there's a real reason for anything it lacks: it was rushed as hell, out of the control of the development team.

If SFXT didn't have any DLC on the disc, would people still be claiming it's "an incomplete game"? Given how many default characters it has? Suddenly there DLC on the disc is found and it magically becomes something else?

Not even arguing over whether the DLC strategy is the right one. Just pointing out how much of this is actually highly relative and based on perception. And how much of the controversy is really a narrative constructed out of subjective factors.

Agreed. Outside of a few examples dlc hasn't necessarily been a bad thing. I just think that at the time of launch a game should be able to be regarded as a finished product. Any dlc should be able to slot naturally into that product. It should also be priced accordingly with the content of the original game. Which never happens.

Fighting games are actually a perfect fit for dlc. It's just the content it shockingly overpriced. How much would Super Street Fighter IV have cost if it was priced in relation to the Arcade Edition. I'd probably be homeless.
 

Skilletor

Member
I'm curious how many people who bring up The Epilogue have actually played it. I think they have a rather different view of what it actually consists of than the reality.

I thought it was great. It's not like the game didn't have closure, and the DLC gave me more of a game I enjoyed and upped the difficulty (one of the main complaints I had about the main scenario).
 
I pay for Xbox Live. I buy Capcom fighters day one. I buy mostly all of the DLC day one. Why? Cause it's my money and I enjoy these video games. I don't care much about gaming politics or business practices because I have gotten nearly 500 hours of gameplay from every single game I have bought from them. You can do whatever you want with your money and stand for whatever you would like to. I won't say you are wrong or call you an idiot as these are your choices. Would be nice if that was extended over to me. People are seriously making "beaten wives" comparisons? That's just silly. I just place a value on fun and when it comes to fighters(not just capcom) For me it is worth it and then some.
 

Lothars

Member
"start to abuse"?

They've been abusing it this entire generation, and we have a full thread showcasing "battered wife syndrome". It's sad how complacent gamers are these days.
You also have a thread showcasing the constant whining of how dlc is killing gaming and that games are lacking content because they do have the dlc characters, It's to extremes I don't necessarily agree with the content being on the disc but I don't have an issue with there being dlc in games especially if the game is as feature complete as this and other fighting games are.

If SFXT didn't have any DLC on the disc, would people still be claiming it's "an incomplete game"? Given how many default characters it has? Suddenly there DLC on the disc is found and it magically becomes something else?

Not even arguing over whether the DLC strategy is the right one. Just pointing out how much of this is actually highly relative and based on perception. And how much of the controversy is really a narrative constructed out of subjective factors.
I agree with you, It's alot of hyperbole and I think some would still argue that it is incomplete once the dlc is announced because DLC is coming out even if it's not on Disc.
 
We get it. You want everything they make or it's BS, but it's their product, their labor, their creation. Their choice. They can package and sell it how they want. If I wrote a book trilogy that's complete, I sure as heck don't owe you all three if you buy my first.

Wow, you're getting into shitty analogies yourself now? If the final book in A Song of Ice and Fire is released with the last 50 pages missing so that George can nickle and dime you for them I'm sure you'd be perfectly fine with it.

We get you too. Ever quick to call people blind and ignorant for being upset with what they see as shady businesses whilst failing to realize you're being equally blind in your support of Capcom. I don't think anybody here is saying Capcom don't have the right to pull this shit, just a lot of people aren't happy with their decision to do this to loyal fans.
 

KAL2006

Banned
I don't mind DLC for things htat don't effect gameplay such as alt costumes. But DLC characters in a fighter is not a good idea. Even Ono said this himself. Here is a quote.

GameSpy: But given that it will be on consoles in a big way, can we expect much in the way of post-release content? Like characters, stages, musical arrangements?
Yoshinori Ono: Going back to the chess analogy, characters [in fighting games] are like rules, and you have to master the rules to enjoy them too. So while we are working on downloadable content, characters will not be downloadable. We don't necessarily want to increase the complexity of the rules. And also, I think it's a little bit unfair that those guys with a bit more money will have more characters. But yes, we are working on some downloadable content.
 
If the final book in A Song of Ice and Fire is released with the last 50 pages missing so that George can nickle and dime you for them I'm sure you'd be perfectly fine with it.
no, i wouldn't be perfectly fine with it, but i don't see what that has to do with extra characters being found on the disc of what appears to be a complete game.
 

vg260

Member
Wow, you're getting into shitty analogies yourself now? If the final book in A Song of Ice and Fire is released with the last 50 pages missing so that George can nickle and dime you for them I'm sure you'd be perfectly fine with it.

We get you too. Ever quick to call people blind and ignorant for being upset with what they see as shady businesses whilst failing to realize you're being equally blind in your support of Capcom. I don't think anybody here is saying Capcom don't have the right to pull this shit, just a lot of people aren't happy with their decision to do this to loyal fans.

People are assuming these 12 characters are akin to those last 50 pages you speak of. They are not. They were made to be separate. I don't like it, but they were.

Support by purchase does not equal blind support. I made an educated purchase on their previous games with no sense of entitlement being grossly displayed here. If I were blind in my support, I wouldn't have just canceled my PS3 SFxT pre-order, which I did.
 
I don't mind DLC for things htat don't effect gameplay such as alt costumes. But DLC characters in a fighter is not a good idea. Even Ono said this himself. Here is a quote.

Not a good idea but inevitable at this point. It will be hard to name a fighting game from any company that won't use this model soon enough.

It's also a great alternative to a Ultimate version debacle.

Would people rather have an AE style update that offers an expansion pack of sorts? With more characters a rebalance patch and some new stages etc? I liked this idea but its also fragmented the community and killed vanilla super.

I would have preferred them just adding all the AE content and patches to super instead. Like they are doing now. Growing their game with new characters, features and balance tweaks.

I know why the on disc DLC looks bad but if it was the plan from day one this was by far the best way to go about it(thanks to patching costs and compatibility issues). I don't feel slighted in in the least.
 
I pay for Xbox Live. I buy Capcom fighters day one. I buy mostly all of the DLC day one. Why? Cause it's my money and I enjoy these video games. I don't care much about gaming politics or business practices because I have gotten nearly 500 hours of gameplay from every single game I have bought from them. You can do whatever you want with your money and stand for whatever you would like to. I won't say you are wrong or call you an idiot as these are your choices. Would be nice if that was extended over to me. People are seriously making "beaten wives" comparisons? That's just silly. I just place a value on fun and when it comes to fighters(not just capcom) For me it is worth it and then some.

Yup, I don't like how people are basically saying you are an idiot or you are just lubing yourself up to take it up the ass because you buy this stuff because you actually enjoy it. Would I like it if these characters were free? Hell yea, I would, but I personally don't feel I was ripped off when just 2 weeks ago I was very pleased to hear there were 38 characters in the game. I get my moneys worth with just about each fighting game released this gen and not only capcom games. I believe each fighting game I own I put over 200 hours into.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Sorry, but arc sys does dlc in fighter better than capcom. I'm paying 7 bucks a character? Sure, but a.) it's not done when the game is released, b.) it comes with a balance patch changing up the meta.
 
gameprice.png

One trouble I have with these "inflation-adjusted" lists because they try to bundle together two different styles of products. Cartridges, which were constantly changing and evolving hardware (still applicable to the 3DS and Vita), versus pressed discs, which rarely obviously change more than once per generation (switch to dual-layer, or the security format change on 360 recently). Multi-disc becomes the one major physical cost difference with selling a game (manuals, peripherals, and other basic junk aside), versus a time when we were buying cartridges with four times as much ROM storage as their predecessors a year ago, and embedded CPUs to handle scaling, polygons, compression, or even just heavy processing.

I'm not saying it's completely wrong to point out the difference due to inflation, but they're not exactly identical products.
 
To those angry at the fact that Capcom 'hid' these characters (more, that they hid the fact that they're already on disc), I ask, why should Capcom tell a customer what's in or not in the disc that's not meant to be part of the game (at least initially)?

I mean, I don't remember people being angry about Nintendo not saying "Oh, hey, just to be open about it, there's a hidden Airwing in Kokiri Forest". I know is not a perfect comparison, since Nintendo wasn't out to sell the code to that Airwing at a later date, but that doesn't change the fact that people payed for the game Capcom told them they were getting, not what they now think they should have gotten.

Honestly, I'm in the camp of "better this than a Super edition six months later".
 
Sorry, but arc sys does dlc in fighter better than capcom. I'm paying 7 bucks a character? Sure, but a.) it's not done when the game is released, b.) it comes with a balance patch changing up the meta.

Capcom characters aren't always done. These were just planned ahead of time.



Honestly, I'm in the camp of "better this than a Super edition six months later".

Yeah. I guess you need to be a fighting gamer who has bought full priced versions of games 2, 3, 4 times with maybe 3 or 4 characters added each time along with some gameplay tweaks. This is the way of the fighter and IMO DLC is a blessing. I would love is SFV never had a super version at all. Just DLC till they decided to let it be and move onto something new. It will keep the community as large as possible. The drop off of players from SFIV>SSFIV>AE DLC was huge every time. More so for MvC3>UMvc3.
 
Honestly, I'm in the camp of "better this than a Super edition six months later".
I'm in the camp of wait 6 months and pay $40 for the super edition, rather than pay $60, and then another $20-30 for an unlock code. I have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with anything at hand.
 
Sorry, but arc sys does dlc in fighter better than capcom. I'm paying 7 bucks a character? Sure, but a.) it's not done when the game is released, b.) it comes with a balance patch changing up the meta.

There's a lot more reason to that though. The process arc sys use to make characters is much slower than the way capcom and their team is smaller too.
 

HeroMK

Neo Member
DLC is a virus that is going to grow stronger with each passing day. It might not be too bad right now but soon it's going to overwhelm everything.

Dark days lie ahead...
 

LowParry

Member
DLC is a virus that is going to grow stronger with each passing day. It might not be too bad right now but soon it's going to overwhelm everything.

Dark days lie ahead...

And you're being forced to buy DLC....how? DLC works. People are just fucking the freak out right now.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Sorry, but arc sys does dlc in fighter better than capcom. I'm paying 7 bucks a character? Sure, but a.) it's not done when the game is released, b.) it comes with a balance patch changing up the meta.

They also don't pull a Marvel and actually give you the DLC characters in the next expansion without buying them separately.
 
Sorry, but arc sys does dlc in fighter better than capcom. I'm paying 7 bucks a character? Sure, but a.) it's not done when the game is released, b.) it comes with a balance patch changing up the meta.
I think they still have room for improvement though. They did charge a bit too much in my opinion. I'll take their form of DLC over Capcom's any day of the week if they lower the prices to $5.

Everyone who works in this genre is slowly coming to grips with DLC through tons of experimentation so we'll just have to bear with it for now. I personally don't see this as the biggest issue for Capcom anyway. Their lack of confidence in their other fighter IPs and their constant little gimmicks(ultras, X-factor and gems) are far more worrying imo.
 
Capcom unity
Capcom has confirmed that 12 new fan-favorite characters will be available as Downloadable Content (DLC) on the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, and PC versions of Street Fighter X Tekken later this year. The playable characters will make their debut on the PS Vita system when the game is released this fall, with the console and PC versions receiving them as DLC soon after. The character information and files were intentionally included on retail versions of the PS3 and Xbox 360 game to save hard drive space and to ensure for a smooth transition when the DLC is available, allowing players who choose not to purchase the content the ability to play against players that did. More specifics regarding pricing, dates and other additional exciting DLC plans for Street Fighter X Tekken will be shared at a later date. As a reminder, the retail version of the game will be the only disc-based version consumers will need to own and all future upgrades will come from post-launch DLC. The new characters fighting their way onto Street Fighter X Tekken are... from the Street Fighter side... Blanka, Cody, Dudley, Elena, Guy and Sakura will be playable and from Tekken... Alisa Bosconovitch, Bryan Fury, Christie Monteiro, Jack, Lars Alexandersson and Lei Wulong will all be available.

By including these 12 characters on the disc, the idea was to ensure easy compatability between players who do and do not choose to download the characters when they arrive as DLC. For example, not buying costumes in the Street Fighter IV series means you will not see the costumes when playing another person who did buy them; on-disc characters avoid this issue and allow everyone to participate in the update without additional patches or hiccups. The update also saves on file size - instead of a massive download, there will be a much smaller unlock that brings the new content to the surface.

This move also furthers our desire to avoid a "Super" version of the game down the road. Everything you need to enjoy this game for months (and years) to come will be accessed by the retail disc available this week. When the DLC update does come, it will inject new life and excitement into the game by unleashing 12 new fighters into the wild.

SFxT has a ton of content on day one, then later this year we reenergize the whole thing with a hefty DLC update, without the need for a second disc. And while pricing details are still to come, I can at least say it'll be a great value considering the size of the update - 12 new characters is pretty substantial, after all.

I understand the reaction, but SFxT is a damn fun game with a ton of content right out of the gate and more stuff - all designed to keep this fresh - to come.
 
I call entitled consumerism.

Question - if they ripped the characters off of the disk so you couldn't play them now, and instead everyone downloaded compulsary compatability patches every time characters are released, but the characters were already done, would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom have just ripped these characters out of the game and scrapped them? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom have decided to make a formal expansion pack/second disk with these cut characters on? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom have given these characters away as part of the initial $60, and then charged for DLC developed after release? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom have given these characters away as part of the initial $60, and then given all future updates as freeLC because you already bought their game? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom just give everything away for free because you already bought their other fighting games/you don't have enough money/you want to trial the game? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom give away all their games for free and rely on charity to keep running? Would that be okay?
Or, should Capcom give away all their games, sell all their property and live as hermits, meditating on the nature of Saikyo on Mt Fuji? Would that be okay?

You can see what I'm getting at. It is morally wrong to charge for anything. You should give away your services for free and ask for nothing in return, even if that would cause you to starve.

So moving on from moral talk to the real world: good on Capcom for making more money off their fighting game. I hope this will encourage lots and lots of fighting game development in the future. Capcom have made a smart buisness call because this game is worth far more than $60 to enough people that it'd be stupid to sell everything for $60. With the extra money Capcom can pay their staff more/hire more staff, make more games etc. Unless there's a compelling business argument to the alternative I can't really side with the "ON DISK DLC IS BAD" idea.

Hell, this is also an excellent way of capturing money from those buying used games.

EDIT: Wait, these are going to be in the PC VERSION OF THE GAME?

As in the PC version which is based on the same engine as SSF4, which has been modded to hell and back already?

Looks like I'll be playing these characters earlier than the autumn then.
 
When it comes to fighters I'll take DLC.

There are multiple repeats on your little picture there.


My only problem with it is when someone, who doesn't have a problem with DLC, buys DLC, it forces me to buy it as well in order to maintain the competitive aspect of the game.

If DLC characters are declared ineligible for tournaments, then I don't really have as much of a problem with this.
 

Bizazedo

Member
The anger is misplaced since it's easy to argue that those twelve characters never would've been made if it weren't for DLC and there's no one outside of Capcom that could prove or negate that.

The real anger should be that the Vita is keeping these characters from us.
 
There are multiple repeats on your little picture there.


My only problem with it is when someone, who doesn't have a problem with DLC, buys DLC, it forces me to buy it as well in order to maintain the competitive aspect of the game.

If DLC characters are declared ineligible for tournaments, then I don't really have as much of a problem with this.

Yes there are many repeats but it doesn't change the fact that I as a fighting game player am used to at least three version of the same with minimal upgrades at full price. I like the DLC trend in fighting games. Sorry it bothers you. DLC characters are only banned when they are released too soon and can't be practiced against enough to make it fair.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Hey capcom, how bout releasing those characters for free since Sony is obviously paying you big bucks to withhold them from us.


Oh well, chances are I won't be playing this anymore in the fall... so i guess no money from me.
 

Skilletor

Member
There are multiple repeats on your little picture there.


My only problem with it is when someone, who doesn't have a problem with DLC, buys DLC, it forces me to buy it as well in order to maintain the competitive aspect of the game.

If DLC characters are declared ineligible for tournaments, then I don't really have as much of a problem with this.

If I don't want to play as Cody (I don't), I'm just going to play against people who use him. /shrug

Seems easy enough to me.
 
The anger is misplaced since it's easy to argue that those twelve characters never would've been made if it weren't for DLC and there's no one outside of Capcom that could prove or negate that.

The real anger should be that the Vita is keeping these characters from us.
Red Arremer might've exploded if this would have happened with Mahvel.

Capcom fucking sucks at this lol.
 
Yes there are many repeats but it doesn't change the fact that I as a fighting game player am used to at least three version of the same with minimal upgrades at full price. I like the DLC trend in fighting games. Sorry it bothers you. DLC characters are only banned when they are released too soon and can't be practiced against enough to make it fair.


I feel bad for you since you bought the arcade cabs along with the SNES versions and handhelds then. Did you also buy the 3DO and MSDOS street fighters? Maybe you should stop.

And this "DLC trend" hasn't gone on long enough to make firm declarations on whether DLC characters are banned or not. Thanks for your opinion, but I also have been playing fighting games for a while.
 

Khezu

Member
14 DLC characters completely done on the disk and I can't use them until fall?

That's fucking crazy.

Wait, nathan drake was almost a DLC character as well alongside cole? Sony is going crazy with this shit.
 

IronLich

Member

Capcom...

I get that you want people to be able to fight against them even if they didn't buy them, but from the looks of the data, they're essentially ready to be played with all the bells and whistles, so why not just have them in the initial game instead of locking them away until later? That's what bothers me. If they're ready to go on the disc, shouldn't you technically have them in the initial roster, and we could have just passed on this entire issue when it first manifested? I mean at least the locked content in MvC3 and MK9 were clearly partial, so there's a perfectly good reason.

Same goes with costumes. They don't seem to alter frame data, and are just window dressing for the character model. So you know, if they're on the disc, make them unlockable in the game itself.

You're still getting $60 per customer. I know it's better for me to wait for a character I want rather than not have the character at all because you didn't have time to get them just right, but that's not the issue here. If they're on-disc, they should be in-game.

It's less a feeling of entitlement and more a description of logic.
 
I feel bad for you since you bought the arcade cabs along with the SNES versions and handhelds then. Did you also buy the 3DO and MSDOS street fighters? Maybe you should stop.

And this "DLC trend" hasn't gone on long enough to make firm declarations on whether DLC characters are banned or not. Thanks for your opinion, but I also have been playing fighting games for a while.

Don't feel bad I enjoyed the games and didn't mind spending money on them. But given the choice I prefer this route. As far as tournies go I have only really seen them ban console exclusive characters. I would imagine that would be the trend in the future as well. You are welcome by the way.

Keits from SRK is thinking of banning all the DLC characters for tournament play.

I stand by this 100%.

Yeah i'm sure the majority of the FGC who buy it will love this. Hopefully Capcom cancels the DLC and releases it in November as Super SFxTK on a new dic so people would use it in tournaments happily(UMvC3).
 
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