This post seems exactly where we are headed props for the prophecy.
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Planned DLC content for SFxTekken found on the original disc
- Thread starter rocK`
- Start date
This post seems exactly where we are headed props for the prophecy.
Tizoc
Member
The game has 38 playable characters available from the start.
I don't like this quantity over quality trend in fighting games.
You said, "I can't believe people are still buying these fighters day 1."
Maybe you should be more descriptive about which people you mean.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yes, because The World Warrior, Alpha 1 and New Generation had higher quality characters than Marvel vs Capcom 3.
I'm not getting into a sarcasm battle with anyone. I just don't really see the point of having so many characters that have so few differences between them. What I'm more directly referring to is SF4. I haven't played much mvc3 or any sfvt yet, but I'd much rather have a limited set of characters with strong styles and distinct differences than a shit ton just for the sake of having a shit ton.
Which characters in SF4 have "so few differences between them"?
Terareflection
Member
Blazblue and Skullgirls are that way.
OmnipotentO
Member
Maybe he means the shotos?
Deified Data
Banned
This. Read the consumer agreement on the games you buy, people. You own a disc and a license. The content on said disc is being leased to you. It sucks, but it's not like game publishers are pretending to do anything else.
From Software doesn't follow the norms in the industry. The current norm is to dumb down games to create the biggest audience possible, but From seems hellbent on not doing this. The Souls games don't even feature DLC.
What you're talking about seems more possible for EA, Namco, and Capcom.
Huh?
What you're talking about seems more possible for EA, Namco, and Capcom.
Let's not forget our greedy friend, Activision!
Ryu, Ken, and Akuma?
Even supposing I agreed they were similar (I don't), that's...3 characters out of 35+?
How many characters does SF4 have now? lol
crimzonflame
Member
Everyone who has a projectile is the same!
FallingEdge
Member
It would take forever for him to choose. Time out at character select screen each time.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Capcom would just work harder to appeal to people. They'd probably bring a world tour rpg like mode back from SFA3, custom color creator that don't suck (SFA3 but on 3d characters), and more characters/backgrounds. Oh one more thing, they'd make the online work well. Spectator mode, hit box display in training, replay save for vs and online. No holding back to get the big sell numbers.
They are probably the big fighting game developer with somewhat little competition, but they aren't totally free of competition. Some people probably grab their game along with their other games just to have it sitting around in case someone wants to play on gaf. I did this with UMVC3, got my main game (Saints Row 3) then had UMVC3 ordered for slow shipping on release because I didn't really need it due to the other new games I had. They are making their market smaller with this dlc plan stuff and stand alone disk only expansions. They should be rewarding customers that are loyal to them. They had to tell/lie to people that there won't be another disk version of SFxT. It' that expected.
I totally forgot that they'd be selling gems too. HAHA GL with this game capcom, seems like a big mess.
You're forgetting Sakura, Sagat, Evil Ryu, Oni and Seth! damn clones.
gundamkyoukai
Member
This game is still day 1 for me most likely same for the DLC .
Fighting games are one of the few games i put hundreds of hours into 60 now and some money later don't matter .
What got me angry is that they only got 4 colors for you to use day 1 which very stupid .
To me if the DLC is on the disc or not don't matter i going to have to pay for it either way .
Fighting games are one of the few games i put hundreds of hours into 60 now and some money later don't matter .
What got me angry is that they only got 4 colors for you to use day 1 which very stupid .
To me if the DLC is on the disc or not don't matter i going to have to pay for it either way .
Man, you just reminded me how awesome SFA3's World Tour mode was godlike.
You are right, all the way.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
1. Yes, nearly every publisher does this
2. The cost that MS, and in particular Sony, charge for DS tokens/codes/etc are ridiculously expensive so it drive publishers to continue to do us
MS encourages/incentives robust DLC plans yet charges for releasing, so this is a compromise publisher are doing. Odd practice really
2. The cost that MS, and in particular Sony, charge for DS tokens/codes/etc are ridiculously expensive so it drive publishers to continue to do us
MS encourages/incentives robust DLC plans yet charges for releasing, so this is a compromise publisher are doing. Odd practice really
Yeah, I was definitely impressed with how distinct all of blazblue's characters felt.
To be fair SFxT has completely new styles built up for the whole Tekken cast since they are being transitioned to 2D.
As for the SF side of the cast the vast majority play different and have different play styles that suit them, but you aren't obligated to play that way. Sure Guile can zone and chuck booms, but I've seen plenty who rush your shit down as Guile instead of playing zoning.
Ryu and Ken are similar and very much so, but their intracises are vastly different. One has better fireballs, another better uppercuts. One can do more mix up pressure with his tatsu kick, the other has a more reliable overhead. One has a great step kick and kara throw, while another has a great low poke for footsies.
I can go on and on. Yeah they have 3 similar moves, but are not the same. And even if Ryu/ken being similar pisses you off, then you have the rest of the 36+ roster with different play styles.
robotzombie
Member
So, to the people who are so avidly offended by this, do you actually believe that if this game were released at a time before DLC existed, we would have gotten these 12 characters for free on the disc? I hate to break it to you, but the much more likely scenario is that the only reason they created these extra characters in the first place was because they got extra development time and money purely due to the fact that they would be sold as DLC. And the reason they are on disc is because it makes much more sense to develop everything concurrently as opposed to release the game, then all of a sudden getting back to work to start up new dev on characters.
So your options never were "get these characters for free, or pay for them as DLC". Your options are "pay for the characters or never have gotten them at all"
So your options never were "get these characters for free, or pay for them as DLC". Your options are "pay for the characters or never have gotten them at all"
I agree with you, but playing devil's advocate, the default roster would have probably looked a bit different without DLC. Certainly, Lars and Alisa wouldn't have been left out.
Tizoc
Member
You'd need to play the game for yourself to find this quality. In fact, IMHO, a game's roster is irrelevent since in the end you'll end up maining (and subbing) a handful of characters.
Right now I've found interest in using Juri in it, I never cared for her in SSF4, but I'm thinking of maining her in SFxT.
In addition the Tekken cast have lots of stuff going for them as opposed to some of the SF regulars.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The third option is that they would have planned out a possible 52 characters and cut a third or even half when they saw what the budget allowed, then dipped back into the pool for the next full priced retail update to the game.
Setting the MVC3 cock-up aside for a moment, they didn't trick anyone or lie about Super Street Fighter IV. They updated that with cheap DLC for existing owners. Nobody had to buy a sixty dollar retail disc to get the next version.
SFxT seems to be following the same model (it is the SFIV team and producer).
So, it more comes down to: would you rather pay for DLC characters for the game, regardless of when they were conceived and approved, or pay for a retail disc later with no choice whether to upgrade via DLC or not.
Personally, I think it's likely that any "super" upgrade to the game that would involve major features like new game systems and a complete rebalance would be DLC like AE with an updated retail disc for those who don't own the original.
I think if the disaster with Ultimate MVC3 hadn't happened, people would have a lot less of a reason to be tripping own, even taking the question of whether DLC is on disc or not into account. But we're dealing with Capcom's further damaged reputation due to UMVC3.
The only caveat I would suggest is that a large roster does allow for a hell of a lot of matchups, which keeps the game fresh longer even if you personally only play one character.
UMVC3 can't be accused of quantity over quality as its cast is insanely diverse and most of the characters are well done. If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have seen incredible upsets like Final Round where the trenchcoat / wolverine mafia was slapped up side the head by rare characters from deep in the roster.
If fully appreciate a game like BlazBlue where every character is wildly unique, but I think one has to really be a game specialist to get the most out of that for a long period of time. Just like Virtua Fighter can be praised for having a small cast of very unique characters, but you do have to seriously dedicate yourself to get into that scene for years at a time.
LightofRohan
Member
Budget constraints? Whatever the publisher can give you, you take and work with. You'd be fairly shocked to see how much each character costs to make and each extra costume.
Do you all think it's free to make new characters? Would you prefer no new characters at all? I don't get it. And even releasing stuff on the marketplace costs money to do, even releasing a patch costs lots of money.
Terareflection
Member
At the very least, you do realize that there are alternatives if you are unsatisfied with Capcom's method of doing things.
Thanks for the well written response. They can be tough to get around here. For someone like myself who spends about 20 minutes in practice mode with each character and gets out there and has fun, all these intricacies are lost on me. So I'm guessing these massive character lists appeal to a) the elite/hardcore competition fighters that understand how to use 30-40 different characters and all their subtleties effectively and b) the people who are "omigod 35 characters dats so kewl!". I'm obviously neither of these. I don't think anyone can argue that Ken/ryu/akuma/dan/Sakura/whoever else I'm forgetting has the same degree of difference as, say, dhalsim/zangeif/chun li. And I can swear that 1/2 of my online matches in SFIV were against Ken. Literally. So I don't really see people utilizing these massive character lists. Perhaps they do on the pro level?
/thread derailment
Terareflection
Member
They don't on the pro-level, as well, but that's another problem entirely.
ihearthawthats
Banned
blazblue is a new ip. i don't think many people are going to be too fussy about character roster. on the other hand, street fighter and tekken are both long running franchises that have built up considerable fan bases. people want to see their favourite characters in the game, whether that be ken, hugo, sakura, or karin. i'm fairly certain this is a big consideration when capcom creates its rosters (i.e. they've made character polls).
Good point. Not wanting to let fans down makes perfect sense.
It's not a real derailment honestly, because you are bringing up a valid point based off your own experiences.
The situation with Ken is, he's brain dead easy to play at a 100% ass level in the sense that you can just mash shoryuken and have some success on people who are trying to learn the game and do combos, but don't have timings down, so they get interrupted by him mashing it or doing anything when he is going to stand up.
With SF4 once you grind yourself to being good enough to get out of that skill bracket you start to see a big opening in what characters are used, how good people are with them, and play styles. It's like day and night on what you are playing once you reach that point.
At pro level you'll see a variety of characters, but you'll also see consistency of handfuls (5-10) usually placing in the top spots in tournaments. That's partly due to those characters having really great tools, but of course also has to do with the person using them as well. Like Rufus is great example of a nightmare to fight at top level, but he's a joke in a novices hands as a threat.
Developers have gotten a lot better at balancing games out too, so you don't see situations like Vanilla SF4 where it was pretty much Sagat running the show, but there will always be a 1 strongest character. It's why in original BB release with it's small roster the pro level was NOTHING but V-13. It made the game awful to watch due to 1 character being so much better than the rest of the cast. Thank goodness for patches these days to nerf stupid shit like Phoenix and Yun.
So while a smaller more diversified cast to the casual may seem "better" ins ome ways, it can open up a whole different can of worms that you'll only see 1-3 characters only at pro level. Which is why I'm far more adamant of a bigger roster because it gives a chance to see more when you watch streams.
I mean take this weekend for example with Final Round stream. The guy who won UMvC3 was using characters you don't see at the top ever. Vjoe, Frank, and ROCKET Racoon of all people.
Bigger doesn't mean better, and neither does smaller, it's upt to the developer to hit that sweet spot and make each feel their own. Luckily Capcom does a great job of that imo.
So you want the developers to spend more time, money and effort to delay things to make you feel comfortable?
Not you specifically, but that whole argument of "I'd feel better if it wasn't on the disc" sounds half baked. I understand it much better as "I don't like that the content is in my grasp but I can't access it," and that's something I can emphasize with. However, I also understand that having the content on disc means less waiting when the company wants to release it. Off-disc they have to re/submit the content, wait for all that extra stuff, and on our end we have to spend more time waiting for the download to finish.
I'll admit not knowing exactly how that process works, but from what I do understand it's just more convenient this way for the devs and us.
Now I do agree that the bigger issue is "The content is in my grasp, but this douche hacked it and got it early/for free."
EDIT:
I know you were already challenged on who the lazy party is, but calling somebody lazy in the first place sounds like a lazy argument to me.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You know what else costs more these days? The price of a game.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Twelve characters for $20? You're dlc math is waaaaay off.
Single characters are $5 EACH, while it's possible we'll see them sold as 4 packs for around $15 a pop. Then tack on the extra character outfits for even more CHA-CHING!
robotzombie
Member
Hahahaha, no. Ever buy an snes game?
Never been a game with this amount of character DLC. You don't know how much Capcom will charge for them.
SolarPowered
Member
I saw the Megaman 360 video that was posted a couple of pages back. He looks meh.
This thread reminds me of the UMvC3 reveal thread too. Ah, those were hilarious(and horrible) times.
This thread reminds me of the UMvC3 reveal thread too. Ah, those were hilarious(and horrible) times.
It's repeatedly the same arguments over and over and over. It's hilariously sad.
narcosis219
Member
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Do you honestly expect a $20-$25 price tag for 12 characters from a company that sells individual characters for $5 a pop? How then can they justify Jill and Shuma costing $5 each if they were to cut SF vs Tekken fans such a huge break?
This already happened and it's called arcades
crimzonflame
Member
No way were N64 games 49.99 back then.
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