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[BriareosGAF]

Not really. The PS3 and 360 had quite some "hidden" tricks because of the unknown architectures. The PS4 and XBox are basically mid range PCs, so the amount of "tricks" that devs can use is much more limited since the architecture is already so well known. It is a bit of a missed opportunity IMHO that we didn't get true next gen consoles... but I understand the price fear this time.

Have you worked on a console game before? Beginning of generation and end of generation? Then, please, for the love of God, stop pretending you know what you're talking about. There are enormous areas of untapped GPU tricks and transformations awaiting us in this generation. Every interesting little bottleneck in the hardware is an opportunity for us to figure some clever way to work around it. I will give you one small example: the role of LDS as part of inter-stage transfer mechanism.

 

[plumpblumpkin]

Regarding the PC version

http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5474064/watch-dogs-pc-ps3-ps4-xbox-360-xbox-one-release-date

It at least seems to be pretty demanding:

Confirmed minimum specs

• Processor: IntelCore 2 Quad Q8400 2.66Ghz or AMDPhenom II X4 940 3.0Ghz
• Memory: 6GB RAM
• Video card: 1024 VRAM DirectX 11 Shader 5.0
• Sound Card: DirectX9
• Hard drive: 25 GB

Rumored Ultra specs were 8 GB memory, Nvidia GTX 670 / AMD Radeon HD 7970 and Intel Core i7-3930K / AMD FX-9370

Hmmm, this could be a case of what EA did with NBA 2K6... PC version was complete shit graphically and the consoles had the true "next gen" awesome looking version...

Could Watch Dogs be completely different graphically(E3 2012) on PC?

I really hope so...

 

[JonathanPower]

Ubisoft suggested that, at least according to the Twitter post. Their damage control at work.

I will be really happy if this is the case, but I highly doubt that.

 

[mercenar1e]

It's a fair assumption PS4 games will look noticeably better than the Watch Dogs E3 2012 demo over time, just through optimization of one fixed hardware platform.

PS3 games went from


to

You are talking about years of optimizations and even then it won't technically out perform a GTX 680.. you are duping yourself if you believe otherwise.

 

[Casimir]

I know this isn't a PC thread but I want to ask this question here since the current discussion is going on. How much of a handicap would someone be at if they played online PC multiplayer games with a controller? Mouse and keyboard just does not work for my lifestyle.

Depends on the title and genre. But in general if the game rewards quick precision aiming, all other skills being equal, you will die more often then your opponents.

FPS and TPS are common genres that exhibit this pattern.

 

[Faith]

1.84Tflops will always be 1.84Tflops. Maxwell in 20nm will outperfom a PS4 with a factor of 5-6.

 

[R_Deckard]

You'd be killed more often than not.

This times infinity

 

[Ty4on]

Nah. While it's true they're based on the x86(-64) architecture, they're still fundamentally different to the PC you can throw together yourself. A 8 GB shared memory pool being the most obvious example, while an 8-core CPU is still very rare in most PCs, too.

8 core Jaguar. A four core cluster of Jaguar cores is common in cheap laptops and has similar processing power to a single modern Intel core. Look for the AMD A4 5000 to see how cheap four of those cores in a laptop are. You can get eight way more powerful cores for PC (FX 8350) at 4Ghz, but they're not recommended because Intel quad cores outperform them in games.

We will see improvements, especially as art styles mature, but we won't see something drastic technically. A lot (not all) of the advancements in last gen were from better art and use of the resouces hence why games like Crysis 2/3 ran on pretty low end HW without having the option to make the graphics as bad as they were on the consoles while Devil May Cry went from 30fps on consoles to 200fps on high end GPUs.

 

[Faith]

Nah. While it's true they're based on the x86(-64) architecture, they're still fundamentally different to the PC you can throw together yourself. A 8 GB shared memory pool being the most obvious example, while an 8-core CPU is still very rare in most PCs, too.

A Haswell-CPU is much faster, because of 1.6 instructions per cycle instead of 1.0 (Jaguar).

1.6 IPC x 4 Cores x 4 Ghz = 25.6 (Intel)
1.0 IPC x 8 Cores x 1.6 Ghz = 12.8 (Jaguar)
0.2 IPC x 3 Cores x 3.2 Ghz = 1.92 (Xbox360 CPU)

So if you have an Intel CPU you are outperforming the PS4/One CPU by factor 2.

 

[Phire Phox]

I kind of wish MS and Sony went balls to the wall with the next gen and made them $600+ with more powerful hardware. The hardcore will buy them no matter what and as the price comes down over the years the midcore and casual gamers will start jumping on board.

 

[ZSeba]

I kind of wish MS and Sony went balls to the wall with the next gen and made them $600+ with more powerful hardware. The hardcore will buy them no matter what and as the price comes down over the years the midcore and casual gamers will start jumping on board.

Repeat the same mistake from last gen? Sounds like a great idea.

 

[ZSeba]

Opps, double post, sorry.

 

[BY2K]

That is exactly what was said:

PS4 will look like E3 2013
PC will look better than E3 2012

Well then, looking forward to see the PC version.

 

[TyrantII]

You are talking about years of optimizations and even then it won't technically out perform a GTX 680.. you are duping yourself if you believe otherwise.

People are also kidding themselves if they think >10% are running 2 GTX 680's in SLI, which is the rumor of the 2012 demo.

Yes, PC's can be more powerful than consoles. This has been the case since the 6th gen. Arguably even gen 5, even though the gap was much closer at launch.

The consoles have Easily have better performance than the average PC, and at much much more attractive price/performance ratio. If they didn't, no one would be buying them.

 

[Glorified G]

Compared to... PS3? We've barely begun to see what this generation is capable of, Xbox One and PC included. Your comment about texture, resolution and framerate more appropriately describes what PC gaming has been like over the past few years - it has been held back by last-gen console games. Once this generation starts hitting its stride, you will see significant improvements beyond resolution and framerate. If anything, it's those two elements that will most likely to stay the same or suffer, as studios push the boxes further to achieve more advanced effects. I expect to see plenty of 30fps, 720p PS4/Xbox One games in five years' time that look absolutely incredible.

It hasn't happened last gen as majority of console releases, including recent ones stayed at native 720p. Having more effects at a lower resolution is also counter productive. Devs could push a gazillion effects at 480p but it would be pointless.

It's unprecedented for a console to have a such a drastic decrease in resolution later on it it's lifespan that wasn't present at launch. There hasn't been a single 720p PS4 so far and won't start soon. It would be the equivalent of PS3 games to have 480p res later on in it's lifecycle.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

A Haswell-CPU is much faster, because of 1.6 instructions per cycle instead of 1.0 (Jaguar).

1.6 IPC x 4 Cores x 4 Ghz = 25.6 (Intel)
1.0 IPC x 8 Cores x 1.6 Ghz = 12.8 (Jaguar)
0.2 IPC x 3 Cores x 3.2 Ghz = 1.92 (Xbox360 CPU)

So if you have an Intel CPU you are outperforming the PS4/One CPU by factor 2.

Does anyone know if the 1.6ghz is because of yield issues? Like they couldn't crank them up higher without some of the cores failing? Or is that just how fast the Jaguar cpu's are typically.

I don't pay attention to this shit anymore like I did 10 years ago.

 

[chadskin]

There's a second part of Jason Knothes comparison video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77M8E3NSEso

 

[DieH@rd]

you are overestimating the power of the PS4.

I'm not comparing those two chips as they were running on Windows. Those differences are well-known today. Slightly crippled 7870 is no match to GTX680.

I am comparing PS4 with its own API and Drivers to a Windows-powered 680. There, differences are much more closer, and will continue to evolve with the time as devs iron out SDK and learn to take full potential from console hardware.

Well then, looking forward to see the PC version.

Sadly, it will not be in best interest of Ubisoft to showcase PC version early when they know that consoles will grab 90% of sales. We will get a showcase only very close to release date I think...

 

[riflen]

Does anyone know if the 1.6ghz is because of yield issues? Like they couldn't crank them up higher without some of the cores failing? Or is that just how fast the Jaguar cpu's are typically.

I don't pay attention to this shit anymore like I did 10 years ago.

1.6Ghz is sweet spot for the consoles' TDP. The CPU can run at 2Ghz but that requires a TDP increase of 66% and probably would make the consoles' designs considerably bulkier, louder and more power hungry.

A PC's TDP is "whatever the hell you want", you can go hog-wild and so we do.

 

[Caayn]

Repeat the same mistake from last gen? Sounds like a great idea.

The mistake last gen was to use very "exotic" hardware and that one was only really made by Sony thanks to Ken and his wet dreams of cell.

 

[King Mac of Furry Frog]

The consoles have Easily have better performance than the average PC, and at much much more attractive price/performance ratio. If they didn't, no one would be buying them.

Could be due to them being much more user friendly. I doubt they'd sell as well if you had to tweak them like PCs.

 

[Faith]

The consoles have Easily have better performance than the average PC, and at much much more attractive price/performance ratio. If they didn't, no one would be buying them.

PC games are much cheaper, online gaming for free, most people have already a PC at home (it would cost only 200$ to upgrade a decent GPU and to outperform a console) etc.

The only reason people are buying consoles is because of exclusive titles and maybe because they have no idea that they could play 95% of the games on their PC.

 

[Betta Lines]

It hasn't happened last gen as majority of console releases, including recent ones stayed at native 720p. Having more effects at a lower resolution is also counter productive. Devs could push a gazillion effects at 480p but it would be pointless.

It's unprecedented for a console to have a such a drastic decrease in resolution later on it it's lifespan that wasn't present at launch. There hasn't been a single 720p PS4 so far and won't start soon. It would be the equivalent of PS3 games to have 480p res later on in it's lifecycle.

My suggestion was more that the resolution and framerate improvements that gamerforever said was notable about the jump from PS3 to PS4 were the things that are mostly likely to stay the same (or get worse - perhaps not as far as 720 as you say, but I'm still expecting it - there are already PS4 games that aren't 'true' 1080p so they are looking for performance gains by reducing res) and it'll be the effects that make the difference later in the generation. Probably animation too.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Did you folks notice this new 'Share' trailer for Watch Dogs? The visuals look much better than what we saw in the story trailer. Ignore this post if old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCUktx9Cuo&list=UU-2Y8dQb0S6DtpxNgAKoJKA

 

[AlfredX1990]

A Haswell-CPU is much faster, because of 1.6 instructions per cycle instead of 1.0 (Jaguar).

1.6 IPC x 4 Cores x 4 Ghz = 25.6 (Intel)
1.0 IPC x 8 Cores x 1.6 Ghz = 12.8 (Jaguar)
0.2 IPC x 3 Cores x 3.2 Ghz = 1.92 (Xbox360 CPU)

So if you have an Intel CPU you are outperforming the PS4/One CPU by factor 2.

Why would you use IPS to calculate performance?

Could be due to them being much more user friendly. I doubt they'd sell as well if you had to tweak them like PCs.

It's mostly because developers know the final architecture so they can use every single resource of that architecture and even use assembly code to optimize some parts

 

[ZSeba]

The mistake last gen was to use very "exotic" hardware and that one was only really made by Sony thanks to Ken and his wet dreams of cell.

Consumers didn't care about that. They didn't buy it because it was expensive.

 

[Faith]

Why would you use IPS to calculate performance?

Because it is the best way to compare CPUs.

 

[SMT]

Stunning, it looks like a cheap need for speed game.

 

[Betta Lines]

Did you folks notice this new 'Share' trailer for Watch Dogs? The visuals look much better than what we saw in the story trailer. Ignore this post if old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCUktx9Cuo&list=UU-2Y8dQb0S6DtpxNgAKoJKA

I don't think it looks better, it just seems like the sun is at a different angle. Many people still think that both the story and the 'share' trailer look worse than the PS4 2013 footage however.

 

[Wishmaster92]

you are overestimating the power of the PS4.

No that sounds about right

GTX 680= 3 tflops
PS4 GPU= 1.84 x 2 (closed box performance over time) = 3.68 tflops.

 

[Lulubop]

No that sounds about right

GTX 680= 3 tflops
PS4 GPU= 1.84 x 2 (closed box performance over time) = 3.68 tflops.

Lol what? Also Nvidia flops =/= AMD.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Lol what? Also Nvidia flops =/= AMD.

I'm going by this:

 

[KingSnake]

Did you folks notice this new 'Share' trailer for Watch Dogs? The visuals look much better than what we saw in the story trailer. Ignore this post if old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCUktx9Cuo&list=UU-2Y8dQb0S6DtpxNgAKoJKA

See, put lens flare in it and everything is well ... hidden.

Edit: but you can see some improvements, like they glued the leaves to the road so they don't ruin the gameplay. I was fooled by the empty cans running on the streets.

 

[chadskin]

See, put lens flare in it and everything is well ... hidden.

Always reminds me of Lens Flare: The Movie - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHqjmlM3kxs

 

[Faith]

No that sounds about right

GTX 680= 3 tflops
PS4 GPU= 1.84 x 2 (closed box performance over time) = 3.68 tflops.

Please read on Wikipedia what Flops actually means and then you will notice what garbage you posted.

With a GTX8800 you had always a way better performance in games than on PS3/Xbox360.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Please read on Wikipedia what Flops actually means and then you will notice what garbage you posted.

i think you can understand the point he's trying to make without throwing a hissy fit.

 

[mephixto]

No that sounds about right

GTX 680= 3 tflops
PS4 GPU= 1.84 x 2 (closed box performance over time) = 3.68 tflops.

 

[Faith]

I'm going by this:

So why the Watch Dogs downgrade? Or why BF4 is running in 900p on the PS4?

 

[Betta Lines]

See, put lens flare in it and everything is well ... hidden.

Edit: but you can see some improvements, like they glued the leaves to the road so they don't ruin the gameplay.

The leaves were glued to the road in the 2012 reveal too.

 

[Jburton]

Not really. The PS3 and 360 had quite some "hidden" tricks because of the unknown architectures. The PS4 and XBox are basically mid range PCs, so the amount of "tricks" that devs can use is much more limited since the architecture is already so well known. It is a bit of a missed opportunity IMHO that we didn't get true next gen consoles... but I understand the price fear this time.

Same goes for this gen, especially with the asynchronous compute features of the PS4.

These consoles have plenty to give, these early releases have been effectively slightly tuned PC ports ......... this aspect does speak to the clear similarities between the PC and console.

Lead platform console games and first party releases over the next few years will show improvements ..... no doubt about it.

 

[omonimo]

1.84Tflops will always be 1.84Tflops. Maxwell in 20nm will outperfom a PS4 with a factor of 5-6.

The last part could be right, the first part eeew, not means that much all. Ps4 is not exactly like a pc, it's a bit different.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Well downgrade or not, at least we are finally getting the game.

That is something to be happy for.

 

[omonimo]

So why the Watch Dogs downgrade? Or why BF4 is running in 900p on the PS4?

So why crysis was downgraded compared to the first leak? Why Far cry 2 & 3 too?

 

[Wishmaster92]

So why the Watch Dogs downgrade? Or why BF4 is running in 900p on the PS4?

Why don't you ask Carmack? Clearly i don't know anything about graphics.

 

[KingSnake]

The leaves were glued to the road in the 2012 reveal too.

Not all of them. But you are right, I have to see all of them in the real game before commenting.

 

[mephixto]

Same goes for this gen, especially with the asynchronous compute features of the PS4.

These consoles have plenty to give, these early releases have been effectively slightly tuned PC ports ......... this aspect does speak to the clear similarities between the PC and console.

Lead platform console games and first party releases over the next few years will show improvements ..... no doubt about it.

There is no Cell, no RSX this time there is not too much of untapped potential this time.

Did you hear or read any developer said that they only scratching the power of the PS4 or X1?, did someone said that they only using the 40% of the console?

Nope, cause there is almost nothing left.

 

[mephixto]

So why crysis was downgraded compared to the first leak? Why Far cry 2 & 3 too?

There is a lot of videos or even gifs of Crysis 1 that would put into shame some launch games on the new consoles.

 

[chadskin]

Guys, if you want to talk about PC vs. current-gen hardware, please do so here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782715
Or open a new thread. It's getting out of hand otherwise.

Anyways, Wishmaster, how's your comparison video coming along? Sounded good.

 

[-COOLIO-]

There is a lot of videos or even gifs of Crysis 1 that would put into shame some launch games on the new consoles.

crysis, in no way, looks better than shadow fall in my humble opinion.

edit: ah, 'some', well sure. maybe titanfall.

 

[Betta Lines]

Not all of them. But you are right, I have to see all of them in the real game before commenting.

Not all of them were stuck to the ground in the recent footage too...