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[Peltz]

I think I heard that it's possible to get 480p RGB in a PS2/Mini combo if you're using RGsB (sync-on-green) and not plain RGBs. I have no idea whether or not this is actually true or how you'd set it up, though.

After more research, I've discovered it is indeed possible. Check this out:

http://www.beharbros.com/#!toro/cfom

That device outputs 240p, 480i, and 480p via RGB SCART from the Dreamcast. It's designed specifically for the XRGB Mini to get around the fact that the Mini lacks VGA input.

Someone should really make something similar for PS2. Or at least someone should make a simple switch which allows someone to choose from RGB out and Component out without needing to swap cables.

I also emailed Fudoh and asked him which output is superior on PS2. He seems to prefer component over RGB regardless of the source material, (including PS1 games) which was surprising to me given the RGB preference of this thread. Hopefully he does not mind me quoting his email:

"The PS2 has a little more noise in the component signal than it has in the RGB signal. But then again noise is usually only a problem with 480p and that's hard to achieve with RGB (on the PS2).... Personally I just use component for my PS2. Much easier than anything else.... For me the perfect single processor with a PS2 is this:

PS2 -> component -> matrix switch -> output 1 -> XRGB-Mini (240p/480i)
and output 2 -> YUV to HDMI converter -> directly in the TV."

Who would've thought?

P.S. Fudoh is really a nice guy. Not only is he the internet's best authority on upscaling, but he answers his emails in very timely fashion for no other reason than his desire to help people.

 

[theSlacker]

Isn't it better then? To be able to run a game at 4:3 with empty bars or run a game at widescreen (filling it up), rather than running a 16:9 game with horizontal bars? I'm just debating with myself whether I should aim for a sony pvm 20L5 or the bvm I just mentioned.

Well that depends on what your prime use is. I use my pvm/bvms for retro games that just about never have widescreen as an option all while running in RGB, while I use my 50" for modern games that support HD stuff. The main reason many people go for the PVM/BVMs is because they support RGB, and don't need to process the lower resolution of older games like a modern HD tv does. If you are buying one of these monitors for widescreen games primarily I would have to ask why?

 

[GayForMaster]

Well that depends on what your prime use is. I use my pvm/bvms for retro games that just about never have widescreen as an option all while running in RGB, while I use my 50" for modern games that support HD stuff. The main reason many people go for the PVM/BVMs is because they support RGB, and don't need to process the lower resolution of older games like a modern HD tv does. If you are buying one of these monitors for widescreen games primarily I would have to ask why?

I'm buying a CRT for retro purposes only, and I plan to have it beside my modern 50" HDTV. Planning to hook up through RGB nes gen to gamecube gen into the CRT but the gamecube gen through component in 480p of course. I'm just simply wondering what's the better CRT, widescreen has nothing to do with it I guess. I just thought the BVM might have been a better choice since 4:3 games would look better on it rather than 16:9 on a PVM, but again maybe I can just play all my retro stuff (gamecube gen included) in 4:3, right? Doesn't necessarily have to be widescreen, so I could just go the PVM route.

 

[theSlacker]

I'm buying a CRT for retro purposes only, and I plan to have it beside my modern 50" HDTV. Planning to hook up through RGB nes gen to gamecube gen into the CRT but the gamecube gen through component in 480p of course. I'm just simply wondering what's the better CRT, widescreen has nothing to do with it I guess. I just thought the BVM might have been a better choice since 4:3 games would look better on it rather than 16:9 on a PVM, but again maybe I can just play all my retro stuff (gamecube gen included) in 4:3, right? Doesn't necessarily have to be widescreen, so I could just go the PVM route.

For reference:
PS1 and Saturn games that support widescreen
Gamecube games that support 480p and or widescreen.
Playstation 2 games that support 480p and or widescreen.

You would have to weigh your desire to play those games on those lists in widescreen without black bars compared to playing any of the games not on those lists and from older systems without black bars. Since I primarily play older systems on mine and just use my HD tv for games I need widescreen on it isn't much of a choice for me. The 24" of the BVM you mentioned is much less when running 4:3. I personally would and have gone with any number of the 20" 4:3 PVMs or BVMs that are available, the 20L5 being a good one. Or of course a nec xm29 if you can find one.

 

[The Mageling]

also the 240p comment reminds me that i should mod my GC to force that for GBA player use

Yo, if you ever do that let me know how it turns out. I have the stuff to mod my GCN sitting in a shopping cart but I just can't justify it without having some feedback from a real human being.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yo, if you ever do that let me know how it turns out. I have the stuff to mod my GCN sitting in a shopping cart but I just can't justify it without having some feedback from a real human being.

And a real hero?

GBP in 240p looks phenomenal, but runs less than perfect. This is a problem with the Game Boy Player itself as it has a lot of stuttering. Check out Sixfortyfive's review here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132245369&postcount=5092

 

[GayForMaster]

For reference:
PS1 and Saturn games that support widescreen
Gamecube games that support 480p and or widescreen.
Playstation 2 games that support 480p and or widescreen.

You would have to weigh your desire to play those games on those lists in widescreen without black bars compared to playing any of the games not on those lists and from older systems without black bars. Since I primarily play older systems on mine and just use my HD tv for games I need widescreen on it isn't much of a choice for me. The 24" of the BVM you mentioned is much less when running 4:3. I personally would and have gone with any number of the 20" 4:3 PVMs or BVMs that are available, the 20L5 being a good one. Or of course a nec xm29 if you can find one.

That's weird, I thought Melee supported 16:9. Well, I guess I'm going to get a 20L5 then, thanks man.

nec xm29

I'll be a corpse before I ever acquire one of these.

 

[Peltz]

More info:


"Most methods of playing GBA cartridges on a TV look pretty bad. This is due to the fact that the GBA outputs video at a resolution of 240x160 at a non-standard frequency (about 59.xHz). For it to be displayed on a TV or monitor, it needs to be converted to standard resolutions and their matching refresh rate, resulting in frame stutter and windowed gameplay. As a result, no matter what method you choose, playing GBA games on a big screen will never look exactly like playing on the original handheld. This page compares all the best methods of getting GBA cartridges on your TV or RGB monitor."

http://retrorgb.com/gbacompare.html

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Yeah, the options for playing Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance on the TV are just dire. What's mystifying is that the Game Boy Player is more or less actual GBA hardware in a different casing. I have no idea how they fucked up the GCN interface/software so bad. I don't even really care about the sub-par 480p upscaling and can even get over the stutter to a point for some games, but goddamn at that lag. I've wondered if it would be possible to just write a homebrew player application for the GBP that could do a better job than the official thing, but who knows what that would entail.

Maybe Tim could come up with some GBATV wizardry like he did for the Game Gear, but it would probably require a lot more work. The GG had the good fortune of having enough legacy Master System hardware to make a TV-out adapter considerably simpler.

 

[dock]

For reference:
PS1 and Saturn games that support widescreen

Just a heads up, not all widescreen modes on old games are made equal.

I recall Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the Saturn cropping the visible viewing area, rather than expanding the edge. This has a pretty negative effect on the gameplay!

 

[antibolo]

Just a heads up, not all widescreen modes on old games are made equal.

I recall Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the Saturn cropping the visible viewing area, rather than expanding the edge. This has a pretty negative effect on the gameplay!

Yeah that kind of widescreen is pretty stupid and not worth using, since it means you essentially decrease the resolution.

 

[SegaShack]

I may be able to acquire a Sony PVM 20L5 but I fear it might not have a BKM-129x. I'm hoping for that so I can feed my component switch to that, and scart switch to the RGB/Component output of the PVM.

In case it doesn't have a BKM-129x (those things are insanely expensive to buy), is there a switch that would let me feed 2 inputs (SCART and Component), and output a signal to a display depending on what mode I choose for that switch? I have only seen splitters that take the same kind of cables but I'm wondering about scart/component. I don't know if it's a good idea to do that anyway but I'm trying to build a setup that requires me to not unplug anything from the back.

I want to know this as well. I have the same tv but no expansion. It still goes up to 1080i, but I don't like switching from comp to rgb. I have seen BNC switchboxes called "Matrix Switch" that should work for this.

 

[theSlacker]

Just a heads up, not all widescreen modes on old games are made equal.

I recall Panzer Dragoon Zwei on the Saturn cropping the visible viewing area, rather than expanding the edge. This has a pretty negative effect on the gameplay!

Yeah a bunch of things use the vert- method which is shit. Why I prefer the wiki lists of these things since I think they mention that when it applies, like for the Jak games for ps2.

I'll be a corpse before I ever acquire one of these.

Yeah, I've never even seen one for sale locally.

 

[GayForMaster]

I want to know this as well. I have the same tv but no expansion. It still goes up to 1080i, but I don't like switching from comp to rgb. I have seen BNC switchboxes called "Matrix Switch" that should work for this.

I never thought about BNC switches but I can't seem to find one that for RGB/Component, just composite.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I think I heard that it's possible to get 480p RGB in a PS2/Mini combo if you're using RGsB (sync-on-green) and not plain RGBs. I have no idea whether or not this is actually true or how you'd set it up, though.

Well, there's always this:
On older motherboards you can also disable Sync-On-Green by grounding a specific pin on one of the chips .

Just some PS2 FYI's
I personally, use component Sony branded cables as they have a proper ferrite filter built into them. It helps cut down a little on the noise coming from the PS2 (at least that's what I tell myself, could be placebo effect though).

And don't forget about GSM for PS2 which can force the back buffer of PS2 games into higher resolution modes. It's only some games though but it's there. You can also apply hex edits to some PS2 games to get proper widescreen modes too.

Example: I'm currently playing Fatal Frame III on a real PS2 with no grain filter in true 16:9 widescreen with a higher internal resolution than the 480p mode the game comes with. You know, just because I can.

 

[The Mageling]

And a real hero?

GBP in 240p looks phenomenal, but runs less than perfect. This is a problem with the Game Boy Player itself as it has a lot of stuttering. Check out Sixfortyfive's review here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132245369&postcount=5092

Yah, I saw Sixfortyfive's write-up. I'm more interested in how 240p looks, since there's no way I'm dropping $150 on the component cables to do 480p. I've already grown accustomed to the (strange) lag inherent to the GBP, as that's the only viable way for me to stream speedruns of Oracle of Ages on a legit console.

It sucks that the GBP is so troublesome. It could be an awesome solution, but there are just a few too many "gotchas" to recommend it to any sane person.

Thanks for the info, dudes.

 

[Timu]

So I may be getting my Sync Strike tomorrow.

 

[BONKERS]

I currently live in a small ass apartment. I have my original consoles still but some of them are not modded for RGB output. is the Retron 5 a viable option for a CRT? is there a way to convert the HDMI to component? at this point I would rather have one console hooked up as opposed to 5 or whatever. plus GBA + IPS patching is a good selling point.

I'll pull out my original consoles again in the future when I have more space...

No, not at all.

Not only is the Retron 5 a cheaply made over expensive piece of shit, but it has a ton of Input Lag. (4 Frames for SNES games. 2 Frames for Genesis games, this is on top of whatever your display already has)

And the entirity of the software is all stolen(Shocker, it's an emulator box.), Tivo'ized and used and sold commerically against the terms of the licensing without the consent of the software authors.

It wasn't until someone helped me Root the device and give the sources to the developers of various emulators and Retroarch that they were caught red handed and decided to play dumb. (I was planning on staying quiet about this. But every time I see someone ask about the device it makes my blood boil)

This is the entire reason the device was made with android. Easier to save money by stealing the hardwork blood sweat and tears of others. Either knowingly or unknowingly.


AND Then these people have the balls to announce they are pushing up the price. AGAIN after all this has happened. To 180$.

What a joke.

All a calculated business move. "Some small time chumps won't have the money to take us to court!"

Simply buy controller adapters here
http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products.php

and use a PC instead. (If you can't connect your PC to a TV in a reasonable manner ; you can use a 35Ft DVI to HDMI cord if they are close enough and don't mind the wires; you could always build a budget HTPC with a core i3 and whatnot) Simply download roms of games you own and want to play.

 

[Peagles]

^ That's scummy as fuck.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Yeah, nobody should be using a Retron. I don't see the appeal in using your own carts on this thing. You may as well just download ROMs at that point and use a free emulator that'll probably do the job better anyway.

 

[D.Lo]

I find a certain charm to genuine period clone consoles - it has a separate authenticity. NOACs are basically continuing that legacy.

But an emulation console is bleugh even without their crappy theft etc.
It's like watching an old action movie on youtube compared to on actual film in the cinema. Technically the same movie but inferior in every single way.

 

[StevieWhite]

Yeah, nobody should be using a Retron. I don't see the appeal in using your own carts on this thing. You may as well just download ROMs at that point and use a free emulator that'll probably do the job better anyway.

They sell Retrons at places like FYE and Target. There's a whole different market out there for who the Retron is just fine and dandy.

That being said, FRAMEMEISTER FOR LIFE.

 

[antibolo]

The Retron 5 doesn't even run from the carts anyway, it needs to dump the carts first. it's a crappy Android set top box with stolen open source emulators and built-in cart dumpers. Don't buy it. It doesn't replace the real hardware in any way, and if you don't care about real hardware and just want emulators on your TV then build a HTPC instead.

 

[D.Lo]

They sell Retrons at places like FYE and Target. There's a whole different market out there for who the Retron is just fine and dandy.

Did you not read the post above? Even if the concept of a crapy android console isn't bad enough, the company themselves have stolen others' work.

If someone is obsessive enough about authenticity to want to use original controllers and carts, surely they want something that better approximates the visuals and sounds than these turd boxes.

 

[antibolo]

Did you not read the post above? Even if the concept of a crapy android console isn't bad enough, the company themselves have stolen others' work.

If someone is obsessive enough about authenticity to want to use original controllers and carts, surely they want something that better approximates the visuals and sounds than these turd boxes.

I don't think StevieWhite was defending the Retron, he was just pointing out that it's being sold in stores.

 

[Madao]

after all that stuff about the GBP being so bad, i feel like i wasted money getting the silver GBP i got last year.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I wasn't sure what he was saying. I guess making the point that the Retro exists for the FYE and Target customer base who do not know any better.

Anyone, other people articulated my point better.

 

[IrishNinja]

after all that stuff about the GBP being so bad, i feel like i wasted money getting the silver GBP i got last year.

why, though? do you not dig it when playing it? there's all kindsa talk around here about timing, lag etc but if it feels alright when you boot it up, i can't see being down about it

 

[D.Lo]

after all that stuff about the GBP being so bad, i feel like i wasted money getting the silver GBP i got last year.

If you enjoy it it's all good though - it's still the best way to play GBA games on a TV.

 

[TheWraith]

They sell Retrons at places like FYE and Target. There's a whole different market out there for who the Retron is just fine and dandy.

That being said, FRAMEMEISTER FOR LIFE.

I have many original consoles and a framemeister, yet have been using a Retron5 EXTENSIVELY the past few months, and have basically replaced use of those with my R5. Sure scanlines are better on a Framemeister, but the reported lag is simply not true on my setup (using a Samsung series 8 HDTV), I experience the same little lag as playing through my framemeister and have even tested the same cart in original SNES thru xrgb and the R5, with no noticeable difference. Im a heavy gamer and not your regular Target visiting Joe Blo wanna play them Marios. I have seen repirts of quote a lot of lag posted which seems to point that the system performs differently on some setups. To me the system succeeds in being a great solution to play different systems on one console in hdtv's.

Its actualy amazing to see that most detractors here havent even played the console, yet are dissing it. There is definitely shady stuff going on with the code, but saying the machine itself does not perform well is simply far from the truth.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Its actualy amazing to see that most detractors here havent even played the console, yet are dissing it.

Informed consumers don't have to shell out close to $200 for something that their computers already do better.

 

[TheWraith]

Informed consumers don't have to shell out close to $200 for something that their computers already do better.

Not really the console gaming experience of course.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

after all that stuff about the GBP being so bad, i feel like i wasted money getting the silver GBP i got last year.

It's not so bad. For games like Mario that require precise timing to jumps it makes it borderline unplayable for me, so would anything with fast timing, and anything that scrolls quick makes the studder super obvious and makes me want to scream BUT there aren't so many quick scrolling games on GameBoy and playing about 50% of Pokemon Emerald on GBP it was totally fine. I think if I have a kid some day I'd rather he/she use that for when I introduce GB/C/A games instead of potentially breaking one of my GameBoys.

 

[BocoDragon]

Informed consumers don't have to shell out close to $200 for something that their computers already do better.

As someone who spent a lot of years tweaking emulators in TV to get them to look and feel right and it never being acceptable: nah. I think it's a good thing a product like the Retron exists in order to provide a decent experience right out of the box.

I am an original hardware purist... But this product rightfully exists. It fills a need and does it well.

 

[BONKERS]

I have many original consoles and a framemeister, yet have been using a Retron5 EXTENSIVELY the past few months, and have basically replaced use of those with my R5. Sure scanlines are better on a Framemeister, but the reported lag is simply not true on my setup (using a Samsung series 8 HDTV), I experience the same little lag as playing through my framemeister and have even tested the same cart in original SNES thru xrgb and the R5, with no noticeable difference. Im a heavy gamer and not your regular Target visiting Joe Blo wanna play them Marios. I have seen repirts of quote a lot of lag posted which seems to point that the system performs differently on some setups. To me the system succeeds in being a great solution to play different systems on one console in hdtv's.

Its actualy amazing to see that most detractors here havent even played the console, yet are dissing it. There is definitely shady stuff going on with the code, but saying the machine itself does not perform well is simply far from the truth.

My own experiences with the unit are enough for me.

As well as http://retrorgb.com/retron5review.html

Fudoh has also reported the same kind of lag and several scaling and aspect ratio issues.

Just because you don't notice =/= it's not there.

Being able to use your original carts with a stolen emulator is just a faux pas anyway.

Can easily get better results with just a PC. A cheap one too.

Not really the console gaming experience of course.

And giving money to a company who outright stole 80% of what they are selling is?

Telling yourself that dumping a rom from your cart to play an emulator is a more authentic experience is pretty strange.

But if it works for you then, whatever.

We already know how I feel about R5 and Hyperkin.

Maybe if they had actually produced emulators on a non-android platform from scratch(Which would work around android issues and limitations. But that would've cost them tens of thousands of dollars just to pay the RIGHT people to code such programs.), the R5 might be more recommendable and impressive.
But they didn't. And it's NOT.

 

[StevieWhite]

Its actualy amazing to see that most detractors here havent even played the console, yet are dissing it.

That's fair - and I really didn't mean to come across as a detractor. Just wanted to point out that the Retron is partially marketed to a segment of the population that probably doesn't care about frames of lag, emulation quality, and all that. Some folks may just see it as the most convenient way for them to use their old console games on a TV in their living room.

 

[sixteen-bit]

This is the retro gaming done right thread. Why y'all talking about Retrons? lol.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Hey Baphomet,

Trying to get more information from you. Sent an email and a PM to you-- package never arrived and there hasn't been any updates on the tracking. Hit me back up if you see this.

 

[antibolo]

This is the retro gaming done right thread. Why y'all talking about Retrons? lol.

But talking about the Retron 5 is perfectly on topic when in the context of explaining how it's not "retro gaming done right" at all.

 

[Peltz]

I have many original consoles and a framemeister, yet have been using a Retron5 EXTENSIVELY the past few months, and have basically replaced use of those with my R5. Sure scanlines are better on a Framemeister, but the reported lag is simply not true on my setup (using a Samsung series 8 HDTV), I experience the same little lag as playing through my framemeister and have even tested the same cart in original SNES thru xrgb and the R5, with no noticeable difference. Im a heavy gamer and not your regular Target visiting Joe Blo wanna play them Marios. I have seen repirts of quote a lot of lag posted which seems to point that the system performs differently on some setups. To me the system succeeds in being a great solution to play different systems on one console in hdtv's.

Its actualy amazing to see that most detractors here havent even played the console, yet are dissing it. There is definitely shady stuff going on with the code, but saying the machine itself does not perform well is simply far from the truth.

I played one at my local import shop and didn't like it. I'll fully admit, it's my bias against emulation at play, but it's a bias that I refuse to ignore at the same time.

The shell is ugly and the graphics just looked too sharp/unnatural for my tastes. You could feel it was an emulator. It certainly was playable, but there was a tangible input lag too. If you're ok playing on Gameboy Player, then you'd be ok with R5 as well.

But I'm against it based on principle.

 

[The Mageling]

after all that stuff about the GBP being so bad, i feel like i wasted money getting the silver GBP i got last year.

Oh my god, there's a silver GBP? I want that.

I did some digging around, apparently it's a JP model. Does the NA disc work in a NA Gamecube with the JP GBP?

 

[Peltz]

But talking about the Retron 5 is perfectly on topic when in the context of explaining how it's not "retro gaming done right" at all.

Retwrong 5

 

[sixteen-bit]

Oh my god, there's a silver GBP? I want that.

I did some digging around, apparently it's a JP model. Does the NA disc work in a NA Gamecube with the JP GBP?

Yes. As long as you have the correct launcher disc that matches your Gamecube territory, you're fine. The GBP hardware itself does not have a region code.

 

[GayForMaster]

I want to know this as well. I have the same tv but no expansion. It still goes up to 1080i, but I don't like switching from comp to rgb. I have seen BNC switchboxes called "Matrix Switch" that should work for this.

you think this is good enough?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRON-MODE...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338952de3b

 

[Madao]

Oh my god, there's a silver GBP? I want that.

I did some digging around, apparently it's a JP model. Does the NA disc work in a NA Gamecube with the JP GBP?

yeah

i'm using the same disc that came with my US GBP and the JP GBP works exactly the same. the devices are identical physically since GBA didn't have any region locks and the GBP itself doesn't have any either.

 

[SegaShack]

you think this is good enough?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRON-MODE...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338952de3b

Looks great to me, but I am not an expert. It has the sync and everything. Just note that component video and audio will go to separate inputs on there. (IE component video going into set 3 but component audio going into set 4).

edit: It probably doesn't allow multiple inputs to be selected, so just know that component audio won't go through this switch.

 

[Peltz]

BNC inputs are easily the ugliest inputs. I don't even know what I mean by that.

 

[Yes Boss!]

BNC inputs are easily the ugliest inputs. I don't even know what I mean by that.

They are sexy if you come from the film world of a while back. SDI was where it was at.

 

[sixteen-bit]

BNC inputs are easily the ugliest inputs. I don't even know what I mean by that.

SCART imo

 

[antibolo]

SCART/JP21 is an awful, awful connector that is massively oversized and doesn't hold well, and if it weren't for RGB I wish I had never had the misfortune of handling one.