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[Summer Haze]

This is their response AFTER having told them that, or...?

I told them that every other game I own plays perfectly the first time I contacted them.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

I told them that every other game I own plays perfectly the first time I contacted them.

Well, that's fucking uplifting.

 

[AtomicShroom]

So I finally got a reply back from Rockstar Support.

I basically told him that every other game I own controls fine with the exact same controller, gave him the link to this thread, and asked if Rockstar are aware of this issue and/or are planning to fix it.

Of course they are going to try and blame it on anything except their own flawless divine creation.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Is this the same thing that happened with killzone 2?

 

[speculawyer]

The TV may be contributing to this.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

So I finally got a reply back from Rockstar Support.

I basically told him that every other game I own controls fine with the exact same controller, gave him the link to this thread, and asked if Rockstar are aware of this issue and/or are planning to fix it.

At least that's a response. That's a start. I guess.

The TV may be contributing to this.

Fuck.

Me.

 

[Ateron]

I told them that every other game I own plays perfectly the first time I contacted them.

Seems standard procedure for this kinda thing.

The following example is in reverse of this situation but it kinda fits:

I've had an issue with my launch ps4 controller (the R2 is having a bit of pressure sensitivity problems, mostly on gta V, ironically, even though it shows on other games too) and they were trying to shoot down any problems I had with nonsensical questions.They blamed the software of the controller, the game (gta V) and other nonsense, before admitting that it MIGHT be a hw failure on their part.

I had to say multiple times that it happened in other games as well, it was a hardware flaw, but they were trying to pin it down to the game, even told me to "reset the controller by pushing a small pin in the reset button". So, it's a bit in reverse of what's going on here, but people at customer support never seem to think that the guy on the other side of the line knows what he's talking about. Even showing videos of the situation they try to blame it on the controller, smh.

hope that after seeing that it doesn't occur on other games they come to realize that the problem lies in their game, not the controllers/tvs/etc. But unfortunately I don't see them trying to fix the lag/deadzone. It's a blemish on an otherwise amazing game, it's a shame really.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

The TV may be contributing to this.

I've played it on a high-speed monitor. It's not the screen. It's not screen lag. It's the game itself man.

 

[Hollow]

Is this the same thing that happened with killzone 2?

This is worse than Killzone 2.

At least Killzone 2 had solid deadzones and a good amount of precision.

Aiming in GTAV first person is like trying to steer a drunk monkey on roller blades.

 

[Summer Haze]

The TV may be contributing to this.

Pls stahp.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Fact: some people aren't experiencing the issue. Not 'we aren't noticing it'. I'm pretty sure I'd notice that much input lag. So while it is still an issue, refusing to even try basic troubleshooting steps makes me just laugh at people.

 

[Ateron]

Pls stahp.

Maybe he didn't read through all of the thread, it's a pretty logical assumption in these kinds of cases. My old tv had insane amounts of lag and every game looked like GTAV in the gifs, though it was my tv's fault.

But it's proven that in this instance it's definitely the game's fault. People should read ops with more attention..

 

[ChainsawFilms]

I've played it on a high-speed monitor. It's not the screen. It's not screen lag. It's the game itself man.

Probably best to just ignore the, "It's your TV" comments from here on. This has been covered numerous times, if people want to jump in and contribute they should at least flick through the thread and get an understanding of what we're talking about.

I'm soooo tempted to setup my film kit at 60fps to do some proper comparisons, but fortunately my tripods are at work and I'm not sure this is something I really want / need to get into. There have been some great gifs here showing the issues, I'd just like to clear up the acceleration curve (which could be some bizarre J curve, elongated at the bottom then flying up upwards) and deadzone issues; I don't believe Deadzone is as much an issue as some people do, and the acceleration curve is just another issue on top of the lag. Would need to run some tests on this and other games to compare. Locking Infamous at 30fps would seem the best comparison (open world, third person).

 

[ChainsawFilms]

Fact: some people aren't experiencing the issue. Not 'we aren't noticing it'. I'm pretty sure I'd notice that much input lag. So while it is still an issue, refusing to even try basic troubleshooting steps makes me just laugh at people.

Fact: some people don't know what they're talking about yet get deeply offended at this notion.

Fact: You aren't noticing it.

Want to prove us wrong, post a video. We've only asked about 50 times so far. If you seek to disprove something, you must provide evidence.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Is this the same thing that happened with killzone 2?

Yes, it's the same thing.

 

[Summer Haze]

Fact: some people aren't experiencing the issue. Not 'we aren't noticing it'. I'm pretty sure I'd notice that much input lag. So while it is still an issue, refusing to even try basic troubleshooting steps makes me just laugh at people.

Lol.

Then prove your "fact" by posting footage of you playing the game. I guarantee you it's there just don't notice it.

 

[Ateron]

Fact: some people aren't experiencing the issue. Not 'we aren't noticing it'. I'm pretty sure I'd notice that much input lag. So while it is still an issue, refusing to even try basic troubleshooting steps makes me just laugh at people.

Fact: Every single RAGE/Euphoria R* game has had moderate to insane amounts of input lag. GTA IV, RDR, MP3 (console at least), GTA V. Why is this still happening on a modern port of a year old title on more powerful hardware is hard to explain,but there's no "troubleshooting" for this. Some of us are playing on the lowest input lag tvs on the market or highspeed monitors, what else is there to do? Even on CRT it would display lag. It's the game.

 

[Summer Haze]

Fact: some people aren't experiencing the issue. Not 'we aren't noticing it'. I'm pretty sure I'd notice that much input lag. So while it is still an issue, refusing to even try basic troubleshooting steps makes me just laugh at people.

Also, how do you know that none of us has troubleshooted the issue? What are you basing this assumption on? I've tried different sensitivity settings, different FoV's, different views, played the game on two different TV's in my house and the issue was apparent each time. Not to mention the fact that no other game I own or have played so far this gen has had this much delay in the controls.

Yet another case of "I don't notice thing, so everyone else must be wrong".

But please, post a video of you playing your magically superior copy of GTA, please. I'd love to see it.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Fact: Every single RAGE/Euphoria R* game has had moderate to insane amounts of input lag. GTA IV, RDR, MP3 (console at least), GTA V. Why is this still happening on a modern port of a year old title on more powerful hardware is hard to explain,but there's no "troubleshooting" for this. Some of us are playing on the lowest input lag tvs on the market or highspeed monitors, what else is there to do? Even on CRT it would display lag. It's the game.

I swear to god that there wasn't this much input lag in GTA V on PS3. Unfortunately I don't have it anymore so I can't make a comparison video, but I was never bothered by the slight input lag in the PS3 version. I soon as I started playing it again on PS4, it suddenly hit me in the face like a 500-pound gorilla. The difference was massive. I picked up on it immediately. If there was this much input lag on the PS3 version, I would have noticed.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Also, how do you know that none of us has troubleshooted the issue? What are you basing this assumption on? I've tried different sensitivity settings, different FoV's, different views, played the game on two different TV's in my house and the issue was apparent each time. Not to mention the fact that no other game I own or have played so far this gen has this much delay in the controls.

Yet another case of "I don't notice thing, so everyone else must be wrong".

But please, post a video of you playing your magically superior copy of GTA, please. I'd love to see it.

No man, his TV displays inputs faster than they're inputted. His TV can literally predict the future just to circumvent the game's lag. That's the only logical explanation.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Fact: some people don't know what they're talking about yet get deeply offended at this notion.

Fact: You aren't noticing it.

Want to prove us wrong, post a video. We've only asked about 50 times so far. If you seek to disprove something, you must provide evidence.

I have no means of posting a video. I don't card if you don't believe me and everybody else that isn't having the issue. You're having the issue, it's your problem. I understand that getting a new tv isn't a viable option for everybody, nor should it be. But at least try setting the tv mode to 'gaming' instead of just blindingly insisting that it won't help?

 

[Summer Haze]

No man, his TV displays inputs faster than they're inputted. His TV can literally predict the future just to circumvent the game's lag. That's the only logical explanation.

Ha.

It reminds me of when people used to (still?) say they can't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p, so everyone who says they can notice the difference is lying.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

I have no means of posting a video. I don't card if you don't believe me and everybody else that isn't having the issue. You're having the issue, it's your problem. I understand that getting a new tv isn't a viable option for everybody, nor should it be. But at least try setting the tv mode to 'gaming' instead of just blindingly insisting that it won't help?

And those of us gaming on a monitor with almost no screen lag? Hm? Pls respond

Ha.

It reminds me of when people used to (still?) say they can't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p, so everyone who says they can notice the difference is lying.

Oh man, that's so true. Probably the same type of people too.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

I swear to god that there wasn't this much input lag in GTA V on PS3. Unfortunately I don't have it anymore so I can't make a comparison video, but I was never bothered by the slight input lag in the PS3 version. I soon as I started playing it again on PS4, it suddenly hit me in the face like a 500-pound gorilla. If there was this much input lag on the PS3 version, I would have noticed.

I only touched the PS3 version briefly, but the input latency was definitely there. A combination of lower framerate, so you kind of accept delayed input, and third person only make it less noticeable.

The delay is there in third person, but as the view isn't as "immediate", the issue isn't as immediately obvious as it is in first person.

 

[EroticSushi]

I swear to god that there wasn't this much input lag in GTA V on PS3. Unfortunately I don't have it anymore so I can't make a comparison video, but I was never bothered by the slight input lag in the PS3 version. I soon as I started playing it again on PS4, it suddenly hit me in the face like a 500-pound gorilla. The difference was massive. I picked up on it immediately. If there was this much input lag on the PS3 version, I would have noticed.

It was there. I remember it and am disappointed that they didn't get it fixed for the current gen. It's really annoying and I can't stand playing the game for a long time due to it. Feels really sluggish. I was wondering if it was just my controller but I didn't realize it was a common thing.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

I have no means of posting a video. I don't card if you don't believe me and everybody else that isn't having the issue. You're having the issue, it's your problem. I understand that getting a new tv isn't a viable option for everybody, nor should it be. But at least try setting the tv mode to 'gaming' instead of just blindingly insisting that it won't help?

You don't own a mobile phone? You don't know a friend or family member who owns a mobile phone?

Read the thread from start to end before you start recommending people need a new TV.

 

[Summer Haze]

I have no means of posting a video. I don't card if you don't believe me and everybody else that isn't having the issue. You're having the issue, it's your problem. I understand that getting a new tv isn't a viable option for everybody, nor should it be. But at least try setting the tv mode to 'gaming' instead of just blindingly insisting that it won't help?

Omfg...

It's almost as if you ignore the fact that we've said multiple times that every other game we play feels fine...on the same TV...with the same settings.

You don't notice it, that's fine, but it is there. Fact. Now please leave the thread, and leave the people who want this problem fixed to discuss the issue, before you embarrass yourself even further.

 

[UrbanRats]

So I finally got a reply back from Rockstar Support.

I basically told him that every other game I own controls fine with the exact same controller, gave him the link to this thread, and asked if Rockstar are aware of this issue and/or are planning to fix it.

Yeah standard dismissive response basically saying "i don't know what to tell you".

Because realistically, it's something that has to be changed from much higher up in the chain of command.

Still, if the stink becomes big enough maybe they will address it in some form.

 

[AtomicShroom]

It was there. I remember it and am disappointed that they didn't get it fixed for the current gen. It's really annoying and I can't stand playing the game for a long time due to it. Feels really sluggish. I was wondering if it was just my controller but I didn't realize it was a common thing.

I didn't say it wasn't there, but it was nowhere near as bad. Considering the framerate in the PS3 version was worse, the input lag would have been even more pronounced if it lagged by the same number of frames as the PS4 version. In the PS3 version, the input lag didn't spoil my enjoyment of the game at all. In the PS4 version, I can't stand it. It's poisoning my experience with the game. It's not fun.

 

[Summer Haze]

I really wish I still owned FC4 so I could do a side-by-side comparison test. I was switching back and forth between GTA and FC4 multiple times throughout the day and each time I did the controls were night and day difference.

 

[Moon_frogger]

It's not the TV. If it was, how would that explain the presence of input lag only in GTA V and not in any other game or even the GTA V menus and PS4 OS itself?


.

Basic troubleshooting logic, that's how. I know this is impossible to understand but even if the os or no other games have the issue it still could be a problem with THAT SPECIFIC TV AND THAT SPECIFIC GAME. I've had problems like this with other games since the dawn of hd tvs, and often changing the display mode to gaming can fix it. Or just trying another tv. I mean, if it's not a specific issue with the setup then WHY AM I NOT HAVING THE ISSUE???

 

[Summer Haze]

Basic troubleshooting logic, that's how. I know this is impossible to understand but even if the os or no other games have the issue it still could be a problem with THAT SPECIFIC TV AND THAT SPECIFIC GAME. I've had problems like this with other games since the dawn of hd tvs, and often changing the display mode to gaming can fix it. Or just trying another tv. I mean, if it's not a specific issue with the setup then WHY AM I NOT HAVING THE ISSUE???

Hahaha. What is this bullshit? Get out of here with these tales from your arse.

And you are having the issue, you just don't notice it. It's coded into the game, your copy isn't special.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

Basic troubleshooting logic, that's how. I know this is impossible to understand but even if the os or no other games have the issue it still could be a problem with THAT SPECIFIC TV AND THAT SPECIFIC GAME. I've had problems like this with other games since the dawn of hd tvs, and often changing the display mode to gaming can fix it. Or just trying another tv. I mean, if it's not a specific issue with the setup then WHY AM I NOT HAVING THE ISSUE???

Give me a minute to run some tests, I've just found the Lag GTAV mode on my TV was turned on....

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Basic troubleshooting logic, that's how. I know this is impossible to understand but even if the os or no other games have the issue it still could be a problem with THAT SPECIFIC TV AND THAT SPECIFIC GAME. I've had problems like this with other games since the dawn of hd tvs, and often changing the display mode to gaming can fix it. Or just trying another tv. I mean, if it's not a specific issue with the setup then WHY AM I NOT HAVING THE ISSUE???

That makes no logical sense and you know it. You're not having the issue because you're not sensitive to it. Sorry man, that's on you. No offense. You're not a lesser person for not being sensitive to input lag.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Hahaha. What is this bullshit? Get out of here with these tales from your arse.

And you are having the issue, you just don't notice it. It's coded into the game, your copy isn't special.

No I am absolutely not having this kind of delay between pressing a button and seeing movement. I wouldn't play if I was, that's horrid. I mean, I really hope rs can address it for those having the problem but regardless it is not affecting my copy of the game, at all.

 

[Leb]

No I am absolutely not having this kind of delay between pressing a button and seeing movement. I wouldn't play if I was, that's horrid. I mean, I really hope rs can address it for those having the problem but regardless it is not affecting my copy of the game, at all.

But, of course, video proof of this phenomenon will be not be forthcoming because you have neither the means nor the desire to share your good fortune with the world, right?

 

[masteratt]

So I finally got a reply back from Rockstar Support.

I basically told him that every other game I own controls fine with the exact same controller, gave him the link to this thread, and asked if Rockstar are aware of this issue and/or are planning to fix it.

Ranks high up there among some of the bad replies we had here :/

Not sure what I expected really. Rockstar is super protective of their creations (as are all devs I suppose).

From "ur tv brah" to "ur controller signal brah".

 

[Summer Haze]

No I am absolutely not having this kind of delay between pressing a button and seeing movement. I wouldn't play if I was, that's horrid. I mean, I really hope rs can address it for those having the problem but regardless it is not affecting my copy of the game, at all.

Either post evidence or gtfo.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

I really wish I still owned FC4 so I could do a side-by-side comparison test. I was switching back and forth between GTA and FC4 multiple times throughout the day and each time I did the controls were night and day difference.

If anyone does any tests between games and OS, you need to make sure the comparisons are with other 30fps titles (I guess the OS is 60fps) else you've automatically halved any input delay (discounting any constant the TV is adding).

Further tests to show those who disbelieve us is pointless, the onus is on them to prove we're wrong (we're not). But tests so we could actually count the frame difference between say FC4 and GTAV would be interesting. I think you'll find that it doesn't take many more additonal frames over "traditional 30fps latency" to make a big difference.

The lowest you'll ever get on a 30fps is 83ms but that's if you're sampling input at 60fps or, for more consistency, you'd start sampling midway through a frame and have a cutoff the first half of the next frame (then one frame to process the input, one to render = 66ms + 16ms). Realistically, 99ms is a great target. 133ms is pretty solid, but 166ms can suddenly feel awful.

Without counting frames I'd not be surprised if GTAV is higher than this, 200ms type of range. It feels significantly worse than KillZone 2 which had 166ms I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[masteratt]

This thread has gone off the rails unfortunately. I was enjoying it.

Any newcomer, Rockstar employee or otherwise, isn't going to pay attention with the ridiculous direction in here now :facepalm:

Ah, internet. You could have been so useful.

 

[Summer Haze]

Ranks high up there among some of the bad replies we had here :/

Not sure what I expected really. Rockstar is super protective of their creations (as are all devs I suppose).

From "ur tv brah" to "ur controller signal brah".

Ha, yeah, it's a pretty terrible response. I mean, " It is possible that some of the information from the first one is not going through fully", come on, what the fuck does this even mean?...Do they think I'm fucking stupid? Do they think I only own GTA and have no other games to reference the controls against? Do they think I haven't tried everything I can think of before contacting them?

 

[AtomicShroom]

If anyone does any tests between games and OS, you need to make sure the comparisons are with other 30fps titles (I guess the OS is 60fps) else you've automatically halved any input delay (discounting any constant the TV is adding).

Further tests to show those who disbelieve us is pointless, the onus is on them to prove we're wrong (we're not). But tests so we could actually count the frame difference between say FC4 and GTAV would be interesting. I think you'll find that it doesn't take many more additonal frames over "traditional 30fps latency" to make a big difference.

The lowest you'll ever get on a 30fps is 83ms but that's if you're sampling input at 60fps or, for more consistency, you'd start sampling midway through a frame and have a cutoff the first half of the next frame (then one frame to process the input, one to render = 66ms + 16ms). Realistically, 99ms is a great target. 133ms is pretty solid, but 166ms can suddenly feel awful.

Without counting frames I'd not be surprised if GTAV is higher than this, 200ms type of range. It feels significantly worse than KillZone 2 which had 166ms I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't get this. Rendering one frame @30fps takes 33ms. When you get input in, draw the frame, and display it, it takes 33ms. So the lowest you can get is 33ms and is what you should get with all 30fps games. Pretty sure 30fps Nintendo games have 33ms input lag because I can't feel any input lag at all, not even the tiniest, in games like Pikmin 3.

 

[Leb]

Ha, yeah, it's a pretty terrible response. I mean, " It is possible that some of the information from the first one is not going through fully", come on, what the fuck does this even mean?...Do they think I'm fucking stupid? Do they think I only own GTA and have no other games to reference the controls against? Do they think I haven't tried everything I can think of before contacting them?

I mean, sure, it's a bit disheartening, but on the other hand, it's R*'s front-line technical support and this is a fairly involved technical issue -- I don't think you can reasonably expect someone like Mike to really respond to the issue until that issue has reached the attention of someone higher up the technical food chain.

 

[Mr E.]

Will digital foundry get on the case?

 

[Summer Haze]

I mean, sure, it's a bit disheartening, but on the other hand, it's R*'s front-line technical support and this is a fairly involved technical issue -- I don't think you can reasonably expect someone like Mike to really respond to the issue until that issue has reached the attention of someone higher up the technical food chain.

True dat.

 

[Summer Haze]

Will digital foundry get on the case?

I'm going to contact them via their site now and provide all of the evidence in this thread and ask them if they would look into it.

Is there any way to contact specific people?

Edit: I don't think there is. I'm just going to send them a message using the 'Contact Us' tab.

 

[xxracerxx]

I noticed it for a bit but got used to it an hour or so in.

It would be nice if there was a fix though.

 

[woen]

I'm going to contact them via their site now and provide all of the evidence in this thread and ask them if they would look into it.

Is there any way to contact specific people?

Maybe a twitter account. It's more likely that they'll read the message within a day.

 

[ChainsawFilms]

I don't get this. Rendering one frame @30fps takes 33ms. When you get input in, draw the frame, and display it, it takes 33ms. So the lowest you can get is 33ms and is what you should get with all 30fps games. Pretty sure 30fps Nintendo games have 33ms input lag because I can't feel any input lag at all, not even the tiniest, in games like Pikmin 3.

OK imagine this.

Frame 0 - user moves pad, game registers the move.

Frame 1 - game takes player input the occured while Frame 0 was being displayed, applies it to gameworld and logic (AI, physics). Basically, what is the consequence of the player's input.

Frame 2 - render the frame based on the information calculated in Frame 1.

Frame 3 - flip the buffer and the frame rendered in Frame 2 is displayed.

Repeat. There are better explanations for how frames are displayed online.

I remember getting into a conversation about this years back, before DF discussed it, and the number of people who argued that this was nonsense.... it's just how it is. You may not notice this, but some people do. The simple truth is we're all different and we all experience things differently. However, on a gaming forum, some people take this as a personal insult for a variety of reasons - if they can't feel / see it, it can't be true, because they're hardcore gamers man, they'd see this kind of thing.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Will digital foundry get on the case?

Probably not since they never mention the shit in their initial reviews. They fucking reviewed the grass on both consoles and somehow miss this mess.