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[Phantast2k]

Livestream: Security Council: The situation in Ukraine
http://webtv.un.org/ if anyone feeling like getting depressed or laughing (when the Russian representative is on).

 

[Resident_UA]

Paul Sonne @PaulSonne tweets...
Asked about foreign weapons deliveries to Ukraine, Putin says: "According to our information, they're already being delivered."

Putin on any weapons deliveries to Ukraine: "The number of deaths may increase but the result will be the same as today."

Putin: American weapons have not big impact. #Ukraine's soldiers don't want to kill their brothers while #NAF has strong defence motivation.

Putin says Ukrainian government shouldn't prevent its soldiers surrounded in Debaltseve from surrendering and laying down their arms.

Putin: “To lose is always painful. It’s a hardship especially when you lose to yesterday’s miners and tractor drivers. But life is life."

Putin really needling Poroshenko when he says "of course it's hard to lose," "especially when you lose to former miners and tractor drivers"


In Hungary, Putin tells Ukraine that "losing is always painful" but says "life will go on"

Yup, looks like bullet points from Minsk agreement. How can EU still believe a single world this piece of Russian shit says?

Also he seems very confident in an army that he "has nothing to do" with.

 

[demolitio]

Yup, looks like bullet points from Minsk agreement. How can EU still believe a single world this piece of Russian shit says?

Also he seems very confident in an army that he "has nothing to do" with.

The quest for peace can leave people blind to the reality. It's unfortunate that our skepticism over the cease-fire was well-founded but I think most people knew better.

 

[Vizzeh]

Only when said investigators have stake in it, should the findings need to be released in full.

Its just an opinion, no biggie - I have no plans to write an email or start a mass co-ordinated outcry over it

There is just so much smear and mud around every issue nowadays I sometimes feel transparency on some issues can be of benefit, if the data causes no offence, especially if the Russians are going to play silly-bugger's about it.

edit: Infact while looking for recent news on the UN draft resolutions, seems there are fresh news that they are going to reinvestigate (if I am reading that correctly)

The latest draft of the resolution, dated Tuesday and obtained by The Associated Press, now reaffirms last year's council resolution that calls for an independent investigation into the crash and for those responsible to be held accountable.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-asks-un-security-council-vote-ukraine-measure-190436465.html

Yup, looks like bullet points from Minsk agreement. How can EU still believe a single world this piece of Russian shit says?

Also he seems very confident in an army that he "has nothing to do" with.

Putin has gotta be taking the pure piss, definitely trolling the Ukrainians with the "miners and tractor drivers" or is this his attempt at dark-humour. I was born at night.. but it wasn't Last-night.

edit: Also fresh news on that Russian draft resolution regarding a new, "total ceasefire", but can only find the "banned" source. although seems legit.

Russia to Ukraine at UN Security Council: You are unable to establish dialog in your own country.

 

[Engell]

wow i have never heard that much shit coming out of one mouth from this Russian guy at the UN.

"So why didn't they just give up and put down their guns" and "you need to help Russia save them"

 

[freakzilla149]

And your solution would be to either agitate Russia into a full out war with Ukraine, either through increased economic sanctions or actual troops? This doesn't even sound like a good idea on paper.

How does that make any sense? You think Russia doesn't have incentives to avoid war?

What's your solution? Just leave things as they are while Russia acts out it's blatant annexation of Ukrainian territory?

The truth is that Russia is not the Soviet Union and there is no reason to be so scared. Look at figures like GDP, population size, military tech, military budget, recent experience of troops etc vs the big 3 or 4 in EU. We're acting like a bunch of herbivores scared of a single predator.

 

[Moon]

Lithuania wasn't fucking around in that meeting.....good to see, not that it will fo any good.


Absolutely loved the Russian response, *used car salesman smile and a quip of 'oh all these members are provoking me'.

They purely don't give a fuck. America and the UK need to step up now, mainland Europes heavy hitters won't do anything, time to let the anglo sphere handle it.

 

[antonz]

Another terrorist attack in Odessa as another bomb went off. Details still emerging on that one.

Debaltseve is falling. Ukrainian Army has just issued the orders to destroy equipment and fall back. So much for Obama's tough talk after Minsk on Debaltseve

 

[Dictator93]

Another terrorist attack in Odessa as another bomb went off. Details still emerging on that one.

Debaltseve is falling. Ukrainian Army has just issued the orders to destroy equipment and fall back. So much for Obama's tough talk after Minsk on Debaltseve

Sigh... I just want there to be no more death and suffering.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

In Hungary, Putin tells Ukraine that "losing is always painful" but says "life will go on"

Except for the people killed through this war you've started and supported, you utter cunt.

 

[Outcome]

Russian draft resolution on Ukraine just passed by UN Security Council

 

[Vizzeh]

by Photographer Max Avdeev - Some more photos, can remove them if it causes trouble, there were some brutal ones I had to filter so had to avoid linking them here, some were not safe for work. (or likely anywhere for that matter)

On Tuesday, however, rebels seized most of the town and took several Ukrainian soldiers captive. A catastrophic defeat is now all but inevitable. In the days preceding their victory, photographer Max Avdeev embedded with the First Slavyansk Brigade of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic in the nearby town of Logvinove. The rebels had just seized the town, cutting Debaltseve off from the last road leading to Ukrainian territory. The soldiers were mostly local volunteers, though their commanding officers were Russian — as were the men who delivered them tanks and artillery. As the deadline for a new cease-fire deal came and went overnight on Sunday, the rebels kept on shelling Debaltseve.
“We let them out once, and now they’ve come back to fight with us again. We told them to surrender in Debaltseve, but they didn’t. Now we’re not going to let anyone out,” says Sergey, nicknamed “Kunduz,” the company commander from Uglegorsk who has been fighting from Slavyansk since May.
“As soon as our enemy started to run out of breath, suddenly it’s time for peace, we lay down our weapons? Did our comrades die for nothing?”

 

[Fiktion]

5 Reasons Arming Ukraine Won’t Work

I don't agree with all of it but the article makes several very good points, especially regarding Putin's ability to escalate the conflict militarily beyond what the west will ever be willing to do.

 

[EricTheCleric]

#StillBothSides

since when is Ukraine shooting artillery rounds into Russia?

Swedish site The PROFESSORS' BLOG – Science, Culture & Human Rights For All (summary) claiming that they have new evidence that



I am sceptical of everything I read, however a scientific Swedish website holds a little weight, if anything, if conclusive evidence is based on tamper-proof? air traffic control tapes, by either Poland or Ukraine, they should really release them and end uncertainty, I am not sure of any reason why they wouldn't?

Only thing I could find was an excerpt from the bbc on "15:29: Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner" - Again why haven't these been released?

Obviously the entire story is inconclusive but seemingly some things are being held back.

for gods sake stop making an absolut fool of yourself. You just keep on coming with absolute shit sources. The professor is well known in sweden to be an absolute nutcase and is used by Russia as a FUD tool.

Im sorry but you cant be English as you claim to be, you must be a russian troll after all your extremely biased sources.

 

[EricTheCleric]

Its just an opinion, no biggie - I have no plans to write an email or start a mass co-ordinated outcry over it

There is just so much smear and mud around every issue nowadays I sometimes feel transparency on some issues can be of benefit, if the data causes no offence, especially if the Russians are going to play silly-bugger's about it.

edit: Infact while looking for recent news on the UN draft resolutions, seems there are fresh news that they are going to reinvestigate (if I am reading that correctly)


http://news.yahoo.com/russia-asks-un-security-council-vote-ukraine-measure-190436465.html



Putin has gotta be taking the pure piss, definitely trolling the Ukrainians with the "miners and tractor drivers" or is this his attempt at dark-humour. I was born at night.. but it wasn't Last-night.

edit: Also fresh news on that Russian draft resolution regarding a new, "total ceasefire", but can only find the "banned" source. although seems legit.

Russia to Ukraine at UN Security Council: You are unable to establish dialog in your own country.

all you are doing is adding more smear and mud!!!

but I guess that is your job...

 

[Resident_UA]

Putin has gotta be taking the pure piss, definitely trolling the Ukrainians with the "miners and tractor drivers" or is this his attempt at dark-humour. I was born at night.. but it wasn't Last-night.

edit: Also fresh news on that Russian draft resolution regarding a new, "total ceasefire", but can only find the "banned" source. although seems legit.

Russia to Ukraine at UN Security Council: You are unable to establish dialog in your own country.

I have no idea what all of this has anything to do with what I said. I somewhat sarcastically stated that Russian can't be trusted. It's obvious that he is trolling. The question is why...

 

[Dictator93]

by Photographer Max Avdeev - Some more photos, can remove them if it causes trouble, there were some brutal ones I had to filter so had to avoid linking them here, some were not safe for work. (or likely anywhere for that matter)

Can you link their original posting?

 

[Vizzeh]

all you are doing is adding more smear and mud!!!

but I guess that is your job...

Eric, find something else to do with your time please, rather than waste mine, the vast majority of my sources have been good, unless your going to drag up that wiki article from last week which I removed, I am interested in both views of any given story, not just 1-sided drivel, it is a news thread, not a pro-west only thread.

Secondly, I am not swedish and I already explained my reasoning for posting that article, given the seemingly good pedigree of the 'professors' of a + Pro eu/us country being sweden. We since discussed it, seemingly he is a mental patient. Regardless, it is being reinvestigated anyway. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-asks-un-security-council-vote-ukraine-measure-190436465.html

It's obvious that he is trolling. The question is why...

Yeah kind of childish from putin, unless he is specifically taunting the ukrainian heirachy, or its just a bit of macho bravado.

Can you link their original posting?

Yeah sure, I just HIGHLY recommend anyone screamish, or weak stomached/in the presence of kids, not to go to it, as there are some graphics scenes depicted. http://www.buzzfeed.com/avdeev/horr...he-sheer-brutality-of-ukraine-war#.wwPZ8mpRyD

 

[Fiktion]

Im sorry but you cant be English as you claim to be, you must be a russian troll after all your extremely biased sources.

I'm convinced by the way he types that he must be a Russian, maybe living in the UK, but definitely a Russian and probably paid by Putin.

 

[Vizzeh]

I'm convinced by the way he types that he must be a Russian, maybe living in the UK, but definitely a Russian and probably paid by Putin.

You are aware that those photos above are by rebels, if you go to the website, there are some grizzly deaths, as a Putin employee I think I would be doing a pretty poor job with their propaganda.

 

[glaurung]

Considering that the so-called rebels have shown no intention of sticking to the ceasefire agreement, I can deduce just two possible scenarios:

1. They are bona fide rebels and they don't give a single fuck about what has been agreed upon between heads of state. I think this is an unlikely scenario.
2. Putin is trolling Ukraine and Merkel and the entirety of the world - saying now that while he has done all he could to prevent further bloodshed, the rebels are not his to command in any form, shape or manner. And that against his best wishes, the fighting continues. While in actuality, he has told his army to keep on pushing now that the other side has been told that there is a ceasefire. Meaning the rebels can shoot, but the enemy is less likely to shoot back. Sickening and probably closer to the truth.

Whichever is closer to the truth, Putin is probably overjoyed that he has managed to showcase the ineptitude of the EU, even following "civil" peace talks.

 

[Phantast2k]

These are exclusively Russian T-72 B3:

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b3.htm

This is an exclusively Russian T-72 B3 with Russian rail transport marking H2200:

This is an exclusively Russian general taking Ukrainian POWs with exclusively Russian soldiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV4WYWpuNWw&t=10m

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know.html

Here's a totally non-exclusive FUCK RUSSIA

 

[reckless]

Considering that the so-called rebels have shown no intention of sticking to the ceasefire agreement, I can deduce just two possible scenarios:

1. They are bona fide rebels and they don't give a single fuck about what has been agreed upon between heads of state. I think this is an unlikely scenario.
2. Putin is trolling Ukraine and Merkel and the entirety of the world - saying now that while he has done all he could to prevent further bloodshed, the rebels are not his to command in any form, shape or manner. And that against his best wishes, the fighting continues. While in actuality, he has told his army to keep on pushing now that the other side has been told that there is a ceasefire. Meaning the rebels can shoot, but the enemy is less likely to shoot back. Sickening and probably closer to the truth.

Whichever is closer to the truth, Putin is probably overjoyed that he has managed to showcase the ineptitude of the EU, even following "civil" peace talks.

It's

Spoiler

2

Also Putin gets to use his propaganda to try and muddy the waters on who broke the ceasefire, which allows him to paint Ukraine and the West as aggressors especially in Russia.

 

[antonz]

beaten by Phantask. GJ

 

[Vizzeh]

These are exclusively Russian T-72 B3:


http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b3.htm

This is an exclusively Russian T-72 B3 with Russian rail transport marking H2200:


This is an exclusively Russian general taking Ukrainian POWs with exclusively Russian soldiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV4WYWpuNWw&t=10m

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know.html

Here's a totally non-exclusive FUCK RUSSIA

Yeah according to the journalist article/website I posted, they are Russian Commanders, however mostly local fighters, but the people delivering the armour, are also russian.

 

[antonz]

Seems appropriate on the locals discussion

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Nothing local about the war Russia is waging in the east of Ukraine. Yes there's some locals there. But the majority are the Russian armed forces.

 

[Vizzeh]

Nothing local about the war Russia is waging in the east of Ukraine. Yes there's some locals there. But the majority are the Russian armed forces.

The above photos were taken by a photographer who said the fighting force is majority locals, with Russian commanders and Russian's delivering the armour, however is there anyway we can discern for sure who they are by Uniforms etc?

 

[Engell]

New Russian Rulette episode visiting russians, ohh sorry rebels.

http://youtu.be/UCtzrLLWL0M

They all look super insane...

 

[AlphaDump]

There is just so much smear and mud around every issue nowadays I sometimes feel transparency on some issues can be of benefit, if the data causes no offence, especially if the Russians are going to play silly-bugger's about it.


..

Putin has gotta be taking the pure piss, definitely trolling the Ukrainians with the "miners and tractor drivers" or is this his attempt at dark-humour. I was born at night.. but it wasn't Last-night.

...

edit: Also fresh news on that Russian draft resolution regarding a new, "total ceasefire", but can only find the "banned" source. although seems legit.

I am american, but something is off here. like when i'd translate shit in babelfish because i didnt do my spanish homework the night before class.


you offer nothing but misinformation. banned sources? hmm i am shocked.

 

[jakonovski]

New Russian Rulette episode visiting russian, ohh sorry rebels.

http://youtu.be/UCtzrLLWL0M

They all look super insane

The fighters on that video are the ones that aren't allowed on the front lines, I think.

 

[MysticX]

what about the people in Donetsk and Luhansk? any reports of people not happy with the occupation? or are they just happy with it? is there any form of rebellion over there? since mostly when you are occupied with someone you don´t want, there tends to be a rebellion

and holy fuck...wake the fuck up "west" and kick those fuckheads back to russia or where they come from

 

[bonesmccoy]

It's

Spoiler

2

Also Putin gets to use his propaganda to try and muddy the waters on who broke the ceasefire, which allows him to paint Ukraine and the West as aggressors especially in Russia.

It's probably both.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

The above photos were taken by a photographer who said the fighting force is majority locals, with Russian commanders and Russian's delivering the armour, however is there anyway we can discern for sure who they are by Uniforms etc?

You mean the Russian soldiers in Russian uniforms?

Spoiler

they're Russian

 

[antonz]

what about the people in Donetsk and Luhansk? any reports of people not happy with the occupation? or are they just happy with it? is there any form of rebellion over there? since mostly when you are occupied with someone you don´t want, there tends to be a rebellion

and holy fuck...wake the fuck up "west" and kick those fuckheads back to russia or where they come from

Im sure the war has helped Russia get some sympathies via prolonged warfare and through operations to drive a wedge with Kyiv through false flag shelling etc.

You don't openly rebel against Russia. That's suicide. People who have openly spoken out have been disemboweled and dumped in rivers etc. Putin today went to Hungary and part of the trip was to commemorate when Russia brutally murdered thousands during a open rebellion in the country in the 50s.

 

[bonesmccoy]

what about the people in Donetsk and Luhansk? any reports of people not happy with the occupation? or are they just happy with it? is there any form of rebellion over there? since mostly when you are occupied with someone you don´t want, there tends to be a rebellion

and holy fuck...wake the fuck up "west" and kick those fuckheads back to russia or where they come from

There was this: (Ukraine's) Government is Losing Territory in Eastern Ukrainians' Hearts and Minds

 

[Poodlestrike]

The above photos were taken by a photographer who said the fighting force is majority locals, with Russian commanders and Russian's delivering the armour, however is there anyway we can discern for sure who they are by Uniforms etc?

Well, we could apply Occam's Razor. If they're dressed in Russian uniforms, using Russian equipment, and commanded by Russian officers, they're most likely...?

 

[jakonovski]

There was this: (Ukraine's) Government is Losing Territory in Eastern Ukrainians' Hearts and Minds

The disappointment will be great once the war ends and Russia leaves the area to rot, victory or no victory. That's the biggest shame of it all, the people lose in all scenarios.

 

[Vizzeh]

I am american, but something is off here. like when i'd translate shit in babelfish because i didnt do my spanish homework the night before class.


you offer nothing but misinformation. banned sources? hmm i am shocked.

Do you have anything to add other than your opinion or distaste of my willingness to entertain 2 versions of 1 event, your seemingly ignoring my anti-russian photos/news etc, (other than that your purely trolling)

For your information, even if I was putin himself, its none of your business. This is an international forum with a discussion on news. For the millionth time im not Russian ffs, you think If I was I would be pro-actively targeting the offtopic section of a gaming-forum lol.

You mean the Russian soldiers in Russian uniforms?

Spoiler

they're Russian

I was off the opinion that Russia's end-game was to control the native/pro-russian language area's on the border with only debaltseve remaining, after that to hold their ground with no further interest past Debaltseve being a key junction linking Donetsk and Luhansk.

I would like to know what the Ukrainians logic is for holding that specific area? (or would it be patriotism) as it seems less valuable to them than it does to the Russians, who being backed by putin are a stronger force and have the Ukrainians completely surrounded. From a humanitarian POV its a sad loss of life if it is only for politics.

Sooner the fighting ends and the sooner the referendums are held the better. After all this is over, I suspect Putin may have a few regrets and they will be in the form of a financial meltdown.

 

[AlphaDump]

Do you have anything to add other than your opinion or distaste of my willingness to entertain 2 versions of 1 event, your seemingly ignoring my anti-russian photos/news etc, (other than that your purely trolling)

yes, i already did, twice, and even addressed you directly with no response.

you offer 2 versions of 1 event, and call me a troll.

right.

 

[Resident_UA]

I was off the opinion that Russia's end-game was to control the native/pro-russian language area's on the border

What the fuck are you talking about? If you don't even know what parts of Ukraine speak Russian why you are even posting in this thread. GO READ FIRST then post.

 

[Oriel]

Obviously the entire story is inconclusive but seemingly some things are being held back.

Could you take your conspiracy theory laden horseshit somewhere else please?

 

[Oriel]

You know how the "rebels" claim they are only fighting in Debaltseve because it is "internal territory" of their pseudo-state? Hmm, well that's total shit as they're also battling hard to retake the southern coastal town of Shyrokine near Mariupol after it was liberated last week by the Ukrainians.

 

[brian577]

So Putin's claim of American weapons already in Ukraine. Any chance it's true? Or is it just him taunting the U.S. saying "go ahead and try, it won't make any difference"?

 

[antonz]

So Putin's claim of American weapons already in Ukraine. Any chance it's true? Or is it just him taunting the U.S. saying "go ahead and try, it won't make any difference"?

I would think it would be pretty obvious if there were. Many in the US government even admit if its decided to supply weapons it would take time to even begin shipping. Journalists are with both sides constantly and nothing but Soviet era junk and more modern Russian stuff is seen.

Seems more for at home so he can justify whats going on. well they are doing it too

 

[Oriel]

So Putin's claim of American weapons already in Ukraine. Any chance it's true? Or is it just him taunting the U.S. saying "go ahead and try, it won't make any difference"?

By right the Americans (and us lazy ass Europeans) should have been arming Ukrainian last year once this all kicked off.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Putin will never back down, the US knows it. It's just that the uglier the conflict gets, the more Russia should end up "isolated", but I don't think Russia cares, a lot of countries are going to look over this if not outright support Russia just to stand against "the west".

 

[Doczu]

Slightly offtopic, but somewhat related: i find it pretty funny/interesting to see how the views changed in a year here on GAF. When this whole shit went down, starting with Crimea users from eastern europe were (rightfully) affraid and knew that Putins apetite couldn't be stopped with sanctions, yet most of the posters were sure that sanctions would work their way and that a military intervention or help to arm Ukraine would be bad because it would agitate Putin.

Now fast forward to today and what do we see? Sanctions didn't do jack shit, Putin has propably more heavy weaponry in Ukraine/at it's borders than most of european countries, the rebels are hitting even harder and he doesn't care about international peace agreements.

And just about now most of the users on GAF changed their point of view and see that there is no political way to stop Putin and you all start talking about the possibilities of arming/aiding Ukraine, how Germany and France sold them for "peace". It's weird, to say the least.

 

[Doczu]

Sorry for double post, but fresh info from Debaltseve.

http://niezalezna.pl/64312-wojsko-ukrainskie-wycofuje-sie-z-debalcewe-miasto-padlo-setki-zabitych

City is lost, convoy of Ukraine military personel and heavy weaponry retreats from the ciy, witnesses claim hundreds are dead.

So now the seperatists control a vital and important transportation city. Thanks to the rail system they have now unlimited possibilities to send people and equipment between Donbas and Luhansk.

IMO these territories are lost.

EDIT: Ukraine changes the expression from "retreat" to "regrouping". But i'm sure everyone knows what that means.

 

[Syriel]

The disappointment will be great once the war ends and Russia leaves the area to rot, victory or no victory. That's the biggest shame of it all, the people lose in all scenarios.

You mean like all that investment in Crimea, right?

Increasing the standard of living, right?

Sorry for double post, but fresh info from Debaltseve.

http://niezalezna.pl/64312-wojsko-ukrainskie-wycofuje-sie-z-debalcewe-miasto-padlo-setki-zabitych

City is lost, convoy of Ukraine military personel and heavy weaponry retreats from the ciy, witnesses claim hundreds are dead.

So now the seperatists control a vital and important transportation city. Thanks to the rail system they have now unlimited possibilities to send people and equipment between Donbas and Luhansk.

IMO these territories are lost.

EDIT: Ukraine changes the expression from "retreat" to "regrouping". But i'm sure everyone knows what that means.

Train tracks are fixed in place. It wouldn't be difficult for a single fighter jet or bomber to make said rail lines useless.