Let's be honest here, you went above and beyond calling him a poor writer, but this is a pointless discussion, you've come in here to shit on Kojima and you've said your piece in the most condescending way imaginable, congratulations.
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Kojima was too expensive apparently
- Thread starter Jindrax
- Start date
Let's be honest here, you went above and beyond calling him a poor writer, but this is a pointless discussion, you've come in here to shit on Kojima and you've said your piece in the most condescending way imaginable, congratulations.
Love Deterrence
Member
Gotta agree. If MGS is "popcorn flick with no depth," then I've gotta get on the games he's playing.
There's a huge amount of political and social commentary woven in each of the main Metal Gear Solid games.
Genetics and fate in MGS1, information and memetics in MGS2, people being bound by their social and political environment in MGS3 and the entire theme of nuclear deterrence and world peace in Peace Walker.
No MGS script is particularly outstanding as a piece of literature, but to say that the narratives of MGS games lack depth is laughable.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
I've always found World of Goo as an interesting and novel take on capitalism.
I think we can at least agree that Kojima definitely needs an editor.......
exposition is good but not to the point of preaching......
This is always my pet peeves in the MGS games.....so much so that i think the super long exposition 'conversation' of Senator Armstrong in MG Rising is Platinum's parody of Kojima's games.
exposition is good but not to the point of preaching......
This is always my pet peeves in the MGS games.....so much so that i think the super long exposition 'conversation' of Senator Armstrong in MG Rising is Platinum's parody of Kojima's games.
Idk if this is sarcasm or not as i'm not familiar with the word 'capatlism'.
Also calling out other posters for responding to your post with gifs and then posting this, tells a lot about you and your character.
Love Deterrence
Member
It's one of the few series that challenges the norms of our every day life. No one is saying anyone has to agree with how he sees it. But to act as though his games amount to a popcorn flick is pretty disingenuous.
He's not entirely wrong, I mean yeah a lot of artists are efficient if they're just working for a paycheck or something they don't believe in but If it's a passion project or something they own they're going to keep working on it until someone tells them to stop. I'd argue that the biggest challenge most artists face is learning when to stop polishing.
The_Hitcher89
Member
I don't really understand how MGS3 was so restrained (comparitively) after MGS2, then he just went off the deep end more than ever for MGS4.
Dude, people love Kojima's games because they have tons of heart. And Kojma's heart loves mankind/humans deeply.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Even with a passion product you need to learn to be efficient. Many times people assume that an artist or group of artists isn't working on a passion project and are just working for a paycheck when the opposite is true.
Very much so, I love Metal Gear Solid so much, but I really could never say that Kojima's defining feature was his writing.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, but he's a great game designer, even outside that bubble. In that capacity, he is a unique voice.
Whether you like that voice is neither here nor there, you can tell a Kojima game from any other and that is a quality in-and-of-itself. I hate Queen, right? I would rather stab myself in the ears with a rusty dentist's drill than listen to a single pompous note. Even so, I can respect them for their uniqueness and their skill. That's not hard to do.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Obviously they all try to be efficient but from my experience they rarely turn out that way.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
From my experience, I'd have to agree.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Again, some things tend to be chaotic, not everything works out perfectly, but to say that "efficiency doesn't go with creativity" is just, well ignorance.
Fried Food
Banned
Thanks Kojima, thanks for leaving us with Keifer, a guy who couldn't care less about the game and who was so expensive that you had to end up recording almost no dialog for him.
This will be the last meaningfull MGS game and this is what we get.
This will be the last meaningfull MGS game and this is what we get.
Love Deterrence
Member
Boy, that sure is a rumor. Considering press invited to the event say Snake has quite a bit to say in the cassette tapes.
Well, I think you're being a bit harsh by calling him ignorant, he's generalizing for sure but I totally get where he's coming from.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
You asked for a game that is deep; World of Goo is.
The commentary is simplistic but it cuts to the core of some issues that are a byproduct of capitalism. Sometimes simplicity is key.
You obviously have a different eye for these things so I'll agree to disagree.
Moving forward, is there actually any confirmation that it is Metal Gear Solid V that caused the break inbetween Konami and Kojima?
I mean considering how little confidence Konami seemed to have in the Silent Hill franchise in total, couldn't it be rather that him pulling all the guns with Silent Hills, with hiring Norman Reedus and all, be a bigger cause of that falling out ending with Kojima's termination?
I mean sure I can understand that Metal Gear Solid V could have been a big issue too with Kiefer Sutherland and how big this game is going to be. A perfectionist trying to design and polish such a huge playable space naturally does eat up a lot of money, but what if the issue actually was caused by him trying to do that same thing with a game that started to eat up a lot of money already before really going into production and yet would not be able to place its' sales expectations to the same level as Metal Gear Solid could?
Games have gotten a lot more expensive to produce and with the console market being like it is in Japan, I would really understand if a lower confidence project which Kojima was fiercely determined to put his soul behind would be a cause for issues in between him and the business side of Konami.
I mean considering how little confidence Konami seemed to have in the Silent Hill franchise in total, couldn't it be rather that him pulling all the guns with Silent Hills, with hiring Norman Reedus and all, be a bigger cause of that falling out ending with Kojima's termination?
I mean sure I can understand that Metal Gear Solid V could have been a big issue too with Kiefer Sutherland and how big this game is going to be. A perfectionist trying to design and polish such a huge playable space naturally does eat up a lot of money, but what if the issue actually was caused by him trying to do that same thing with a game that started to eat up a lot of money already before really going into production and yet would not be able to place its' sales expectations to the same level as Metal Gear Solid could?
Games have gotten a lot more expensive to produce and with the console market being like it is in Japan, I would really understand if a lower confidence project which Kojima was fiercely determined to put his soul behind would be a cause for issues in between him and the business side of Konami.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I think it's a combination of things. Basically, Konami hadn't seen a lot of return on their investment in something like 7 years (hence GZ being released to recoup some loss).
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I love how you needed to reassure the internet that you hate something but that they did the right thing.
My man Jin.
Joke's on you slowboy, I've seen those "news" 2 days ago and decided not to make this thread.
Bwahahahaaa
Yo yo
, haven't spoken to any of you guys in ages. I'm in bunker mode, so no Gram or Outer Gaf 'till september xDBroken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Can you really attribute all of that to Kojima though? Do you know who came up with all these individual ideas? I have a hard time believing Kojima's the only person pointing these things out.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Well, we'll find out how important he was to the process when we see the next non-Kojima Metal Gear in a few years time.
You should listen to interviews of people who work with this man, i remember Shinkawa saying something like even when the team thinks it's perfect Kojima always finds things to improve, he's never satisfied.
Watch the MGS4 making-of, Kojima re-recorded a few lines of Sunny in the last minute just because he wasn't happy with it. The whole team was laughing and thought he can't be serious since it was very risky for the whole development process but in the end they really re-recorded it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Then do not release the collection until you can do it justice. Not being able to say No to half assed solutions is the hallmark of a pretty crappy company IMHO.
Hurting your cult IP makes almost irreparable damage to a brand you spent a lot of money in building up, it is extremely irresponsible to do such half added moves. Also, the undertaking of starting the Fox Engine (already successfully reused in PES and it would have been reused in Silent Hills and an eventual ZoE 3 too) should be counted in the R&D budget Kojima used for MGS V that benefits the entire company.
Do we have any info how much previous games costed vs how much profit they made?
It would be interesting to know where is the line for companies like Konami where it comes to too much investment.
On the other hand. If Kojima has fixed wage regardless of game sales. He is more business oriented that people assume He's just more concerned about himself than company he's working for.
It would be interesting to know where is the line for companies like Konami where it comes to too much investment.
On the other hand. If Kojima has fixed wage regardless of game sales. He is more business oriented that people assume
He's just more concerned about himself than company he's working for.immortal-joe
Member
I would say the story about how he specifically wanted individual ice cubes to melt when shot out of the ice tray sums it up.
I know, it's really annoying. I hate how everything keeps referencing GamerGate. It doesn't even make sense in this case like it does how men are trying to "gate" off women from gaming
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Aren't both of those references to the Watergate scandal...?
alexandros
Banned
If true, I understand Konami's decision. Tim Schafer's beef with Kotick and the eventual vindication of Kotick showed me that some developers are just really bad with economic planning and efficient use of time.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It was a bad joke
Whups! My bad!
Scrooge McDuck
Member
First, while it is true that good work takes time, I'm not sure that sort of situation actually apply to Kojima who apparently had all the time, budget and indulgence he needed.
Second, looking for ways to be efficient while imposed with many limitations needs creativity to begin with.
One could say that if you gave an artist unlimited time to finish their work, then it would never be finished because it would never be polished enough in their eyes.
So a creator who actually has self control and knows when to stop by themselves is a rarity. It's an generally good and important trait to have. I really, really hate this insinuation that efficiency automatically means non-creative or paycheck-to-paycheck work as if they are diametrically opposite.
To be honest, some of the praise I read for Kojima in this thread regarding this perfectionism grates me somewhat. Things like "he doesn't want to compromise on the resolution of foliage" as if any creator wouldn't want their game to look as good as possible or "he re-recorded VA lines in the last minutes" as if any self-respecting director wouldn't want to do that if they could.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do not think you can compare how Kotick is handling Activision and its IP's to how Konami had been handling anything Kojima was not working on.
LincolnSixVacano
Banned
There's always two people signing the contract, and therefore two people to blame for the situation.
If they have a problem with fixed salary + delays, they should never have given him that contract.
So both parties are to blame, but yet only one gets punished for a shitty contact situation. That is wrong.
However, this is all speculation so I'll keep it at this.
If they have a problem with fixed salary + delays, they should never have given him that contract.
So both parties are to blame, but yet only one gets punished for a shitty contact situation. That is wrong.
However, this is all speculation so I'll keep it at this.
alexandros
Banned
No doubt, I just feel that we should consider the possibility that some of our hero devs aren't such good business men. We may love them for it but their bosses might feel differently and with good reason.