Both are being driven by scaremongering.
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EU- Referendum for the UK..... Neogaf UK are you in or out?
- Thread starter Tak3n
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Both are being driven by scaremongering.
mangochutney
Member
Yeah, I've heard it is very easy to fix problems with the EU. All 28 member states often are in complete agreement on all the problematic issues, as every state has a very similar set of needs. No one ever vetoes anything, either.
Any Questions
Member
In
Would also save us money. Of course it's a plunge into the unknown somewhat, much like Scotland would've had with their referendum, but as Sammy Wilson, MP for East Antrim, said to paraphrase, if this is a jump into the unknown at least I know there's £12bn in net contributions at the bottom so I'll have a soft landing. Well, it's closer to £8.6bn but you get the jist.
Out. And then make Scotland free, ignoring the referendum. And also Wales and Northern Ireland. All free. Everyone independent and running their own currencies. And make London its own thing. And let every single county be independent and raise borders and stuff. I'm tired of this bunch trying to be independent from everyone. Like everyone wants to be king.
I swear to gawd, if every time someone wanted to become independent in this country got their way, you would need a passport to cross the street.
I swear to gawd, if every time someone wanted to become independent in this country got their way, you would need a passport to cross the street.
In.
But we are already ignoring the refugee crisis and the Greece crisis now. Even more so with the Greek one because it's a Eurozone issue which we get to stay out of
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
I voted OUT in all honesty but I don't know a great deal about it, I just want England to stop being like America and getting involved in everyone's business when we can barely take care of our own.
More importantly Scotland can fuck off
More importantly Scotland can fuck off
JonathanEx
Member
Like an idiot, I voted in this poll that we should leave, but think we should stay in. Don't let me near a ballot paper apparently as I'll misread the question.
Captain Smirk
Member
OUT!
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Short term - yeah.
Long term - nah.
The UK has a slight advantage over the rest of europe because of the way its economy works(less dependent on export, because the financial sector is so huge), but overall it will be impossible for the UK to stay relevant in the world economy on its own, and that will affect producing industries tremendously in the coming decades.
I think that some people in the UK hope that Europe will involutarily represent british interests in the world economy and the UK gets to benefit off of the EU(like a halo effect) without beeing part of it. I'm not too sure this will work out.
Yeah, but now everybody can give you hard time for it.
There's a difference between saying millions of jobs will be lost if we leave compared to saying we will be infiltrated by terrorists and migrants only looking for free benefits if we stay.
CharmingCharlie
Member
As dapperbandit I am referring to the Tories lil pet, which is affectionately know aas "Project Fear". Whenever there is a referendum the UK Govt trots out this lil project to scare the ever loving shit out of people into voting the way the Govt wants them to vote.
In the Alternative Voting system referendum we got official posters from the government like this :-
Yes that is an actual advert for the Government backed No campaign. So yeah I am expecting 2 months of the Government telling me my pet will die, my mother will have to be sold into white slavery and I am possibly the worse person on the planet cos I want to leave the corrupt cesspit that is the EU.
Um you haven't heard Cameron talk about "the jungle" have you?
StrawberryJam
Member
In.
Honestly don't even know why this vote is a thing.
Honestly don't even know why this vote is a thing.
Based on what?
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Probably because opinions exist
WadiumArcadium
Member
The Tories promised they'd do a referendum if they got voted in. It's one of the few pledges they've stuck by.
In the Alternative Voting system referendum we got official posters from the government like this :-
Yes that is an actual advert for the Government backed No campaign. So yeah I am expecting 2 months of the Government telling me my pet will die, my mother will have to be sold into white slavery and I am possibly the worse person on the planet cos I want to leave the corrupt cesspit that is the EU.
WTF, I'm glad I don't have any billboards in my local area and I don't get any newspapers either
Am I being stupid and mis-remembering something but didn't Cameron want to leave the EU initially?
Eh? Our economy is bigger than India, Brazil, Russia etc. Heck compare UK to Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Mexico, Philippines, and Vietnam if you think population is the fairest comparison.
StrawberryJam
Member
Ah right. Not being a Tory voter I did not know this!
OverBlood 3
Banned
Eveything the Out campaigners state as benefits to leaving we alread have in the EU it's just baseless rhetoric, a great deal of Out supporters just see this as a way to stop those pesky immigrants stealing all our jobs despite the evidence that most new immigrants are placed in locations where there are NO jobs.
Only around 14% of European laws apply in this country, and we'd still have to comply with those laws to deal in the Euro market re safety standards and the like. You only have to look at the tories that want to leave are odious cunts as a signifier to the company the Out campaigners keep..
Only around 14% of European laws apply in this country, and we'd still have to comply with those laws to deal in the Euro market re safety standards and the like. You only have to look at the tories that want to leave are odious cunts as a signifier to the company the Out campaigners keep..
Depends on your cynicism. He probably spoke out about it while he was in opposition, but the 'renegotiation' was almost definitely predicated on the idea that he would never walk away and campaign against it.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I don't believe so. Pretty sure he's always wanted to stay in really.
In.
I mean if you're someone who reads newspapers (they're out there still) I can understand having some confusion on the subject. But the undisputable fact is that European legislation, and the European project has delivered us enormous utility while making very few demands. Those clamouring for us to leave are doing so because they want to roll back essential worker and consumer protections.
I mean if you're someone who reads newspapers (they're out there still) I can understand having some confusion on the subject. But the undisputable fact is that European legislation, and the European project has delivered us enormous utility while making very few demands. Those clamouring for us to leave are doing so because they want to roll back essential worker and consumer protections.
linkandzelda
Member
I am voting to Remain within the EU.
There are many problems with the EU. Simplification of the process by which legislation is passed. At current all bills are put in categories and each category has different ways for its bills to get passed. This is purposefully overcomplicated and should be simplified to a two stream system of majority or super majority votes by the parliament.
The biggest is of course that legislation-writers are unelected. This leads to very little accountability or transparency. Either Parliament should get the power to write bills or the Executive should be directly elected by the people rather than be elected by the executives of member-states.
The EU is also resisting a Capital Market Union which honestly makes it's claim of a true single market quite dubious.
Additionally the power of the ECJ should be checked further.
Despite these problems I think that the positives outweigh the negatives. The EU as a whole has far more negotiating power than the sum of its constituent parts and the world needs a counterpoint to America's increasing individualism.
Let's not forget why the EU was developed in the first place: To end warfare in Europe. Coincidently there has never been a war between member states. Europe was set up to not only make war undesirable but rather to make the negatives of war outweigh the positives in all cases. In this it has succeeded.
Free movement of people and labour. This is the most important benefit of the EU that is tangible to the average person. You can go anywhere in the EU and get a job anywhere, you can retire wherever you want. Although it is hard to see it right now, the UK economy may go into another downturn in the future. We may well be the weak one in the EU and I would like the ability to potentially get a job in Germany or wherever if need be.
Free trade between EU countries means less cost for British Multinational companies and therefore helps our economy.
Not only do I believe that the Positives outweigh the Negatives but also the Negatives aren't inherent to the EU and can be reformed. Some here would argue that there is an inherent negative to the EU, immigration.
I do not think there is a problem with immigration and I will explain why here. There are three main arguments against immigration.
The first is not really an argument against immigration specifically but rather an argument against population growth in general. Population growth including immigration is currently around 0.6%. If we look at historical figures we find that this is a pretty middle of the road number. Infrastructure kept up back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s despite population growth figures being basically the same then. So is infrastructure keeping up now? The answer is Yes and No. Some things like our roads are being kept up very well, others like the NHS and housing are not keeping up at all.
So why is this happening when we previously could keep up with population growth? Government policy. Austerity is the prime culprit, the government refuses to spend on up-keeping infrastructure. There is lots of evidence for this for instance the fact that the NHS said it needed £30bn extra and the government gave it only £12bn to maintain the same level of care. The past four Governments have also refused to build a sustainable number of houses due to what they see as a risk of political backlash from home-owners who they think will see the government as devaluing their properties.
The second argument has no ring of truth to it whatsoever. Immigrants are a net positive to the economy.
The third argument is the most truthful. It is certain that immigration changes culture. I do not think that the change rate is anywhere near as drastic as some believe though and honestly I don't think culture change is necessarily a bad thing.
The last argument people make against the EU is loss of national Sovereignty. I personally who would ideally want a federalized world government don't care about this at all. I can see why this would mean that nationalists are fundamentally against the EU though.
So those are my pretty unorganized thoughts.
Oh yeah, by the way I think Cameron's potential deal is terrible as it doesn't address the real problems with the EU, only perceived ones. I can see why he does it though, the perceived problems are easier to "solve" and therefore could potentially give a relatively easy boost to the Remain campaign.
There are many problems with the EU. Simplification of the process by which legislation is passed. At current all bills are put in categories and each category has different ways for its bills to get passed. This is purposefully overcomplicated and should be simplified to a two stream system of majority or super majority votes by the parliament.
The biggest is of course that legislation-writers are unelected. This leads to very little accountability or transparency. Either Parliament should get the power to write bills or the Executive should be directly elected by the people rather than be elected by the executives of member-states.
The EU is also resisting a Capital Market Union which honestly makes it's claim of a true single market quite dubious.
Additionally the power of the ECJ should be checked further.
Despite these problems I think that the positives outweigh the negatives. The EU as a whole has far more negotiating power than the sum of its constituent parts and the world needs a counterpoint to America's increasing individualism.
Let's not forget why the EU was developed in the first place: To end warfare in Europe. Coincidently there has never been a war between member states. Europe was set up to not only make war undesirable but rather to make the negatives of war outweigh the positives in all cases. In this it has succeeded.
Free movement of people and labour. This is the most important benefit of the EU that is tangible to the average person. You can go anywhere in the EU and get a job anywhere, you can retire wherever you want. Although it is hard to see it right now, the UK economy may go into another downturn in the future. We may well be the weak one in the EU and I would like the ability to potentially get a job in Germany or wherever if need be.
Free trade between EU countries means less cost for British Multinational companies and therefore helps our economy.
Not only do I believe that the Positives outweigh the Negatives but also the Negatives aren't inherent to the EU and can be reformed. Some here would argue that there is an inherent negative to the EU, immigration.
I do not think there is a problem with immigration and I will explain why here. There are three main arguments against immigration.
- Infrastructure cannot keep up with immigration.
- Immigrants negatively affect our economy.
- The culture of the UK will be destroyed.
The first is not really an argument against immigration specifically but rather an argument against population growth in general. Population growth including immigration is currently around 0.6%. If we look at historical figures we find that this is a pretty middle of the road number. Infrastructure kept up back in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s despite population growth figures being basically the same then. So is infrastructure keeping up now? The answer is Yes and No. Some things like our roads are being kept up very well, others like the NHS and housing are not keeping up at all.
So why is this happening when we previously could keep up with population growth? Government policy. Austerity is the prime culprit, the government refuses to spend on up-keeping infrastructure. There is lots of evidence for this for instance the fact that the NHS said it needed £30bn extra and the government gave it only £12bn to maintain the same level of care. The past four Governments have also refused to build a sustainable number of houses due to what they see as a risk of political backlash from home-owners who they think will see the government as devaluing their properties.
The second argument has no ring of truth to it whatsoever. Immigrants are a net positive to the economy.
The third argument is the most truthful. It is certain that immigration changes culture. I do not think that the change rate is anywhere near as drastic as some believe though and honestly I don't think culture change is necessarily a bad thing.
The last argument people make against the EU is loss of national Sovereignty. I personally who would ideally want a federalized world government don't care about this at all. I can see why this would mean that nationalists are fundamentally against the EU though.
So those are my pretty unorganized thoughts.
Oh yeah, by the way I think Cameron's potential deal is terrible as it doesn't address the real problems with the EU, only perceived ones. I can see why he does it though, the perceived problems are easier to "solve" and therefore could potentially give a relatively easy boost to the Remain campaign.
Carl2291
Member
This is hilarious when you consider that Jeremy Hunt is sitting with the IN crowd.
ShinRPGamer
Member
I'm not from the UK but feel a compulsive need to vote in this poll. 
That said, if I were a UK resident I'd vote in.
That said, if I were a UK resident I'd vote in.
Jeremy Hunt doesn't have opinions. He's directed.
Spaced Harrier
Member
If you had this vote in Ireland it would be a landslide to stay in despite the bullshit pulled over the last number of years.
I find it all a bit mad really that it's so close for your public.
I find it all a bit mad really that it's so close for your public.
Yes, and again, although that's unlikely, it's a far more grounded claim than the uncontrolled immigration argument from the out campaigners.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Economic research.
Next to keeping the European nations from killing each other, this is one of the main purposes of the EU.
Back in the 1960s and 1970s politicians talked about how Europe needs to unite politically to stay relevant for the coming centuries.
Back then the world was pretty much a bilateral world with the US on the one side and the UdSSR on the other side and india and china where on the way to becoming economic powerhouses.
The european countries by themselfs are too insignificant to be big players, thatswhy they need to unite politically and financially.
And then there are problems that can only be fixed when european nations work to together, like for example the refugee crisis right now.
Android18a
Member
In. I kind of like being part of the EU.
CyclopsRock
Member
Your faith in humanity hinges upon NeoGafs opinion on the UKs membership of the EU?
SporeCrawler
Member
UK should leave the EU and mind its own business. Just too little benefit for too much hassle from a european perspective.
I think UK is confident that they alone can be a big player alongside USA, Russia, EU and China.
Neither are valid.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Oh. Pardon me, I clearly haven't been following this very closely. But my vote still stands.
It's nice to see that at the very least some people aren't all bad.
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