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[Leona Lewis]

I'm so excited about the NX (handheld). Vita was my dream gadget until third-party support dropped like a rock.

All Nintendo needs is a $199 price point, dual analogs, MicroSD support, and a single 4.7-inch micro-etched (anti-glare like the Fire tablets) capacitive 480p screen.

If they need a gimmick to jack up the price and depress mass adoption, then they can at least go with something cool like a retractable second screen.

 

[ozfunghi]

Long time ago though, DrTre.

Link/quote?

It's in this thread. I think AmyS posted a link. Postcount around 390 iirc.

Edit: 392 to be exact:

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52119/nintendo-nx-powered-nvidia-tegra-processor-amd-chip/index.html

Nintendo NX will powered by an NVIDIA Tegra processor, not an AMD chip

Exclusive: Up until now, everything we've heard on the next-gen consoles is that AMD will have APUs inside all of them. The Nintendo NX was meant to be powered by an AMD design, but according to our sources, Nintendo is working with NVIDIA and will use a Pascal-based Tegra chip inside of their next-gen Nintendo NX console.

I've been sitting on this story for a little while now, but it has been backed up by another source - who has said that NVIDIA will be providing a Pascal-based Tegra processor for Nintendo's next-gen console. First, Nintendo working with NVIDIA is a big, big deal. The GameCube was powered by the Flipper GPU provided by ATI at the time, after which the insanely popular Wii console was powered by another ATI design: "Hollywood". Hollywood was a 90nm chip, with two dies powering it.

Moving onto the Wii U, where Nintendo used a custom multi-chip module (MCM) developed by AMD, IBM and Renesas (as well as Nintendo IRD and Nintendo Technology Development). The GPU itself is the GX2, which was designed by AMD, and is based on the older R600/R700 architecture and clocked at 550MHz. It's older in the tooth now, so the use of a Pascal-based Tegra processor is interesting, and exciting. NVIDIA's current Maxwell-powered Tegra X1 processor can handle 4K output, and 1080p 60FPS gaming without a problem.

Nintendo's NX console using a NVIDIA design is also a huge win for NVIDIA over AMD, and symbolizes the shift from a much bigger CPU/APU or GPU design, to a mobile SoC design. It could also mean that the rumors of a portable Nintendo console, were right after all.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Considering the current rarity of 540p displays and Nintendo's penchant for using existing screen tech that is cheapely and easily available I really can't seemthem going with it. Either 480 or 720 is my bet as they are both very widely used in phones.

They're a lot less rare than 240p screens were in 2011.

 

[Somnid]

Considering the current rarity of 540p displays and Nintendo's penchant for using existing screen tech that is cheapely and easily available I really can't seemthem going with it. Either 480 or 720 is my bet as they are both very widely used in phones.

One of the few real pieces of information we have about NX is that Nintendo was working with Sharp's freeform displays. Now whether that's still true and whether that is in fact related to the potential device we're talking about is not known but it is something to consider.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

How do you calculate the power draw on a Tegra X1 with 4x 1.5GHz A53 CPUs and the GPU downclocked to 600MHz?

 

[jdstorm]

I hope they toss the 3D but stick with the dual screens. Clamshell design is boss, having a second screen is great even if many games don't fully utilize it. 3D for me is just pointless and adds nothing to the experience even with the best implementations. Two nice 540p screens of equal size again would be awesome.

I like the clam shell design too. But I'd rather a larger hard drive or battery instead of a second screen.

After reading most of this thread. I'd bet that these are close to the specs if true.

NX portable 1 arm based quad core 20nm "Parker" chip on nvidias Upcoming Pascal architecture, with a 540p HD screen 12GB Llddr4 ram. cost $200 at launch (where previous shield tablets have roughly launched.

NX console
2x nx handhelds chip ( octocore chip similar to most modern smartphones) 2x clock speed of the handheld (total power 4x the handheld for direct scale ability. It would also seem to put it as roughly as powerful as an Xbox one. Which lines up with Emily's rumours. Throw in a 64gb/128gb SSD and the new high bandwidth ddr4 memory, and Nintendo should be able to launch a device running all the latest engines at 900/60 for 250-300 dollars.

That would also put Nintendo under the threshold of the shield tablet and nvidia could aim at a more premium demographic. Using the same chips on a 16 or 14nm process, more memory and a better screen would push costs close to 400-500 dollars. Nvidia would benefit from 3rd parties optimising games for the nx as a way to sell shields, when competing with other smartphone manufacturers. (If they bother)


Nintendo could then launch An XL (portable) and Premium (console) version at Xmas with a better screen (handheld) and more memory if demand allowed for it

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Why would Nvidia made a deal at a loss?

They wouldn't.

 

[Doctre81]

Long time ago though, DrTre.

Yeah not exactly big news.

 

[Soroc]

They wouldn't.

Depends on the big picture long term success. If the Nintendo OS platform is a real thing, then taking a loss on 1st generation to make better profits in the 2nd and 3rd generation and so forth would be a sound business move for them.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Considering the current rarity of 540p displays and Nintendo's penchant for using existing screen tech that is cheapely and easily available I really can't seemthem going with it. Either 480 or 720 is my bet as they are both very widely used in phones.

LCD screens can be cut to whatever resolution you want. They'll have their choice of commonly available pixel densities.

 

[Nanashrew]

LCD screens can be cut to whatever resolution you want. They'll have their choice of commonly available pixel densities.

Not to mention free form displays. We can't forget about that old chestnut.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I think this should be shared also in this thread, as it is relevant to the discussion:



It's practically a second source for the Nvidia involvement in NX hardware, as Nate discussed with Emily and verified that the info comes from legit sources.

Yeah, this rumor is definitely looking pretty credible right now.

Not to mention free form displays. We can't forget about that old chestnut.

I still think it's most likely that the free form display thing is actually for QoL.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Long time ago though, DrTre.



It's in this thread. I think AmyS posted a link. Postcount around 390 iirc.

Edit: 392 to be exact:

Oh man, I hope this isn't true. A different GPU just means more headaches when porting to NX, or optimization issues where one game is optimized for one chip and not the other.

 

[Eolz]

Oh man, I hope this isn't true. A different GPU just means more headaches when porting to NX, or optimization issues where one game is optimized for one chip and not the other.

A different gpu than what? PS4/X1? Not really.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Oh man, I hope this isn't true. A different GPU just means more headaches when porting to NX, or optimization issues where one game is optimized for one chip and not the other.

Some guy in this thread or the other one already said that people are porting XB1/PS4 games with little to no trouble. They all use the same high-level tools anyway.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Oh man, I hope this isn't true. A different GPU just means more headaches when porting to NX, or optimization issues where one game is optimized for one chip and not the other.

i guess this is the evolution of "ARM = porting problem since PS4/XBO is x86"?

 

[RalchAC]

It wouldn't be, but it's pointless for a handheld if the games run at native resolution. Vita's issue for example, was that so many of them didn't, but when they did? Boy, was the IQ incredible. 540p is enough.

Vita games can be beatiful and superclean at native resolution. In fact, after buying my Vita I was looking for a new phone and I chose the Xperia M2 because I didn't really care about the screen being qHD. 540p is good enough and scales quite well to both 1080p and even 4K.

LCD screens can be cut to whatever resolution you want. They'll have their choice of commonly available pixel densities.

I don't exactly understand how you can cut a screen, but it isn't the first time I've read this. Finding 540p screens should be rather easy.

I'm so excited about the NX (handheld). Vita was my dream gadget until third-party support dropped like a rock.

All Nintendo needs is a $199 price point, dual analogs, MicroSD support, and a single 4.7-inch micro-etched (anti-glare like the Fire tablets) capacitive 480p screen.

If they need a gimmick to jack up the price and depress mass adoption, then they can at least go with something cool like a retractable second screen.

If they release said handheld I'll be there day one, really. Especially if it's backwards compatible, since my PS+ sub pushed me to choose a Vita instead of a 3DS this gen.

I'm actually hesitating if I should buy one or not, but I would rather wait a little bit for the rumoured pricedrops and a potential NX announcement.

I still think it's most likely that the free form display thing is actually for QoL.

Are there any hints that the QoL device still exist? I haven't heard anything in a while. At this point, I thought it was just an idea Iwata had that was left in the dust after other people took the reigns of Nintendo.

 

[Orniletter]

It's honestly pretty exciting how our expectations ("What would AMD even have for the mobile sector/ It's got to be power VR !") were completely upended.

I'd be fine with a slightly more powerful Vita (because graphics, aside from the native resolution sheningans, was never one of it's problems), but something decent by Nvidia could pack some serious punch.

Playing Zelda U on the NX handheld doesn't sound like a fever dream afterall.

Edit: And 540p would be completely fine. Tearaway, Freedom Wars, Digimon: CS and Toukiden (the native resolution 3D games that use some AA) don't look out of place on a PS4.

 

[Datschge]

How is this thread and rumor going on for so long already? Both Nvidia and Nintendo are know for being control freaks wrt their IPs. Does anyone seriously think either side is backing off their traditional push for complete control to make this cooperation a realistic option?

 

[Jackano]

the home console will probably have a 16:9 aspect ratio. wii-u had a 16:9 aspect ratio, and all tvs these days are 16:9. if there is some kind of cross compatibility between home and portable consoles, that would suggest the portable would also be 16:9. nintendo seems to like the idea of "write once, run anywhere" kind of shared libraries.

That's my point on one of my precedent post however, probably my mistake (bad choose of words), but I think you misunderstood what I was talking about; I was talking about the lower/bottom screen, on both the home console controller, and on the handheld.
Please check my other post for my opinion on the handheld upper screen.

 

[Peru]

How is this thread and rumor going on for so long already? Both Nvidia and Nintendo are know for being control freaks wrt their IPs. Does anyone seriously think either side is backing off their traditional push for complete control to make this cooperation a realistic option?

We have three sources connecting nintendo and nvidia. Details may be more or less trustworthy but it's enough for us to consider nvidia a possible option.

I hope some sources will back up the handheld specific speculation though.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Here's a question - will Nintendo go with split RAM again like the GC/Wii/Wii U/3DS?

 

[KingSnake]

How is this thread and rumor going on for so long already? Both Nvidia and Nintendo are know for being control freaks wrt their IPs. Does anyone seriously think either side is backing off their traditional push for complete control to make this cooperation a realistic option?

What does this even mean? Backing off from what?

 

[Darius]

I think it´s a more and more appealing idea to me just to get into a media/rumour blackout... The reveal and supposed launch aren´t even that far away to be honest, unless you actively look for new rumourse and discussions every day.

Nah, I got a Vita at launch for 230€ (game and 8GB memory card included), and a New 3DS XL is still 195€. I haven't really seen the price of the 3DS go under 170, easily 200 with a game (+ charger). I don't think cost was an issue with the Vita, which just makes it even worse for the 3DS to be so expensive and still have awful hardware.

Good deal, if true. Official prices were quite different at launch though. 250€/300€ just for the system, depending on WiFi/3G model and 8GB memorycards weren´t cheap either, don´t know the price anymore but they were something like 40€-55€ euros back in the day. Games also debuted a little higher at something like 50€ back then.

 

[antonz]

How is this thread and rumor going on for so long already? Both Nvidia and Nintendo are know for being control freaks wrt their IPs. Does anyone seriously think either side is backing off their traditional push for complete control to make this cooperation a realistic option?

Nvidia has actively worked with Nintendo before. Unfortunately for Nvidia at the time Tegra 2 was proving to be a disaster and Nintendo backed out.

From a company standpoint it can be a bit embarrassing to be considered the Industry Leader and somehow be locked out of the Console/Handheld Market completely. Nvidia playing nice with Nintendo can potentially open up doors beyond Nintendo

 

[Genio88]

At this point looks like Nintendo is gonna play the "cheaper" card, releasing a under 249$ device which will be both hendheld and home console at the same time...they won't try to compete with Xbox One and PS4 and won't likely get multiplatforms...how could they think this will make better than WiiU?

 

[KingSnake]

At this point looks like Nintendo is gonna play the "cheaper" card, releasing a under 249$ device which will be both hendheld and home console at the same time...they won't try to compete with Xbox One and PS4 and won't likely get multiplatforms...how could they think this will make better than WiiU?

So this post needs to be quoted in this thread too:

To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.

Power is not the issue that stands between NX and 3rd parties, business is.

 

[Peru]

At this point looks like Nintendo is gonna play the "cheaper" card, releasing a under 249$ device which will be both hendheld and home console at the same time...they won't try to compete with Xbox One and PS4 and won't likely get multiplatforms...how could they think this will make better than WiiU?

If nx devices get both handheld and console equivalent of lineups how could it not do better? 60 million vs 12 mill.

 

[Datschge]

What does this even mean? Backing off from what?

For Nintendo the last time they didn't have full access to documentation and features of a component used in their systems was with Sony's sound unit in the SNES for which Sony kept full documentation and drivers to themselves. For Nvidia it's common that they don't publish the full native capabilities of their chips, only those exposed by their own drivers. In the case of the OG Xbox Nvidia kept control of the production (as did Intel for the CPU) so Microsoft could never take advantage of economy of scale and technological improvements. In the case of PS3 Sony did get full access, but the resulting RSX was devoid of IPs that Nvidia pushed as integral part of their own products. The last time they tried to cooperate with another party (Samsung and Qualcomm) they took it to the court. Nintendo has been very careful to not cede any control since the episode with Sony. Nvidia is said to only make profitable deals or none at all. Sounds like a dream partnership in the making?

 

[wrowa]

Edit: And 540p would be completely fine. Tearaway, Freedom Wars, Digimon: CS and Toukiden (the native resolution 3D games that use some AA) don't look out of place on a PS4.

A lot of PS3/Vita games have horrible UI on Vita, since a lot of developers don't optimize their UIs properly for the smaller resolution. So, if NX is based around console and handheld cross-compatibility, then I really hope that Nintendo uses a resolution on their handheld that's friendlier to port to.

 

[cbrotherson]

I suspect a few things, here:

1 – The handheld won’t be backwards compatible. The DS line still sells well, and having a cheaper alternative on the market would be beneficial without cutting into its possible user base. Nintendo would also, quite likely, want to keep the NX property (whatever it ends up being called) separate for marketing identity. Some DS titles could still be ‘emulated’ via the N-Store, which would be far more practical from a costs and long term point of view.

2 – If this is the case, I also think that NX handheld won’t have two screens; again, giving it a stronger physical identity away from the DS line. Clamshell isn’t out of the question, but I think we’re either looking at a single screen device or something which sits in the second/lower part of the handheld, rather than another screen per se. Nintendo does like to make physically durable handhelds due to its generally younger demographic, so some form of screen protection is possible.

3 – Zelda U has to be a title which plays on the handheld if there’s a shared library. The whole marketing messaging behind having a handheld and home console play the same titles would be hugely diluted if a big killer app like Zelda wasn’t part of it. In theory, most first party titles should fall within this sphere, but having a Zelda launch game that only works on one half of a shared platform would be a marketing pitfall and severely hamper the messaging. Again, given the mooted specs of the handheld, it should be a cross playable title from the off.

 

[KingSnake]

For Nintendo the last time they didn't have full access to documentation and features of a component used in their systems was with Sony's sound unit in the SNES for which Sony kept full documentation and drivers to themselves. For Nvidia it's common that they don't publish the full native capabilities of their chips, only those exposed by their own drivers. In the case of the OG Xbox Nvidia kept control of the production (as did Intel for the CPU) so Microsoft could never take advantage of economy of scale and technological improvements. In the case of PS3 Sony did get full access, but the resulting RSX was devoid of IPs that Nvidia pushed as integral part of their own products. The last time they tried to cooperate with another party (Samsung and Qualcomm) they took it to the court. Nintendo has been very careful to not cede any control since the episode with Sony. Nvidia is said to only make profitable deals or none at all. Sounds like a dream partnership in the making?

So Sony got full access with PS3, but Nintendo will not because reasons? This seems to not have been a problem for 3ds initially either. And unlike Samsung and Qualcomm, Nintendo doesn't produce its own chips, so there is not a similar situation at all. Anyhow most probably Nvidia will design a semi-custom chip for Nintendo and I'm sure that can be worked without companies behaving like big children, as you assume.

And also this is about Tegra, not Nvidia in general.

 

[fabricated backlash]

For Nintendo the last time they didn't have full access to documentation and features of a component used in their systems was with Sony's sound unit in the SNES for which Sony kept full documentation and drivers to themselves. For Nvidia it's common that they don't publish the full native capabilities of their chips, only those exposed by their own drivers. In the case of the OG Xbox Nvidia kept control of the production (as did Intel for the CPU) so Microsoft could never take advantage of economy of scale and technological improvements. In the case of PS3 Sony did get full access, but the resulting RSX was devoid of IPs that Nvidia pushed as integral part of their own products. The last time they tried to cooperate with another party (Samsung and Qualcomm) they took it to the court. Nintendo has been very careful to not cede any control since the episode with Sony. Nvidia is said to only make profitable deals or none at all. Sounds like a dream partnership in the making?

Yeah I don't buy this rumour at all. No way in hell is NVIDIA providing the chip for the NX.
It runs counter to everything Nintendo and NVIDIA want. The whole BS about get a console win or go home is grade A Crap.

 

[KingSnake]

Yeah I don't buy this rumour at all. No way in hell is NVIDIA providing the chip for the NX.
It runs counter to everything Nintendo and NVIDIA want. The whole BS about get a console win or go home is grade A Crap.

What Nvidia wants for Tegra that is contradictory to what Nintendo wants?

 

[LordRaptor]

Assuming (it is a big assumption) Nintendo get western third party support, there is a benefit for nVidia in pushing nVidia specific hardware features or software optimisations on a console title that filters back to the PC enthusiast space, as the studio(s) making those titles can optimise for nVidia cards and the NX having... I don't know, better fog and rain effects in a level than the PS4 and Xbox One do would extend out to the PC versions as nVidia exclusive features.

 

[Datschge]

What Nvidia wants for Tegra that is contradictory to what Nintendo wants?

Ever wondered why on Xbox One Microsoft can offer backward compatibility to (PowerPC based) Xbox 360 games while for (x86 based) OG Xbox games this is nowhere to be seen? Nvidia is treating Tegra no different from its Geforce chips, the drivers are closed and the native capabilities undocumented. In the long run Nintendo will want to emulate its supposedly Tegra based system (if it shouldn't happen right away for development purposes). This would mean Nvidia needs to cede control over the information on the IPs used for Tegra and its drivers, or remove them as happened with the gimped RSX.

 

[fabricated backlash]

What Nvidia wants for Tegra that is contradictory to what Nintendo wants?

Fat margins.

 

[Orbit_shadow]

Sorry guys, put could i please ask:

How reliable is this "SemiAccurate" source?
I've heard that they got the Wii U right or something.
It would be great help if someone could elaborate on this for me.

Cheers in advance!

 

[KingSnake]

Ever wondered why on Xbox One Microsoft can offer backward compatibility to (PowerPC based) Xbox 360 games while for (x86 based) OG Xbox games this is nowhere to be seen? Nvidia is treating Tegra no different from its Geforce chips, the drivers are closed and the native capabilities undocumented. In the long run Nintendo will want to emulate its supposedly Tegra based system (if it shouldn't happen right away for development purposes). This would mean Nvidia needs to cede control over the information on the IPs used for Tegra and its drivers, or remove them as happened with the gimped RSX.

Or Nvidia to support the NX framework with proper drivers and Nintendo to need them for the next installments and both parties win (Nvidia gets a foot in this business, Nintendo gets a good performance and a cheap price when it needs it the most). Neither Tegra nor Nintendo are now at their best, so this image of bullies fighting over a commercial agreement is kind of ridiculous. Nintendo and Nvidia are not competitors on anything so if they have a common interest they can reach a compromise one way or another.

Fat margins.

On Tegra? Again, you're treating Tegra like it's 1080ti or Titan X or something.

 

[Luigiv]

Ever wondered why on Xbox One Microsoft can offer backward compatibility to (PowerPC based) Xbox 360 games while for (x86 based) OG Xbox games this is nowhere to be seen?

What does this have to do with anything? OG Xbox games got the same treatment on X360 as X360 games are getting on the Xbone. The reason there's no OG Xbox bc on Xbone is probably due to customer demand/budgetary concerns more than anything else.

 

[blu]

Fat margins.

One cannot get fat margins when they're nobody in a given market segment. First they need to get any margins, and once they have that they can hope for those margins to improve. If you don't believe me, look at how mobile played out for intel, who have the fattest cpu margins on the planet (but in a different segment).

 

[Durante]

Sorry guys, put could i please ask:

How reliable is this "SemiAccurate" source?

SemiAccurate is one of the very worst tech sites on the internet. Even if it stumbles across something which has some nugget of truth in it, if it as much as tangentially involves Nvidia any shred of objectivity flies out of the window in the face of Charlie Demerjian's inexplicable long-term hatred of the company.

Actually, calling it a "tech site" does a disservice to real tech sites. It's more like a fanboy blog.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Let me see if I can summarize the analysis in this thread so far:

1. If the handheld does use Tegra, it will undoubtedly be more powerful than the Vita. Likely the Tegra X1 but can't be sure.

2. If the rumor is true, it is highly likely that the console SoC would be provided by Nvidia as well, not due to compatibility/scaling problems, but because it makes financial and business sense, and Nintendo would likely be getting a fairly good deal getting both handheld and console chips. On the other hand, if they could wrangle a better deal from AMD for the console they very well could, but this and Emily's rumor seem to point to Nvidia for both (for me).

3. The Emily Rogers rumor saying "Xbone in raw power and that may be pushing it" might be highly misleading if the console uses Nvidia. Nvidia FLOPS =/= AMD FLOPS, and a Nvida NX might well be more efficient/modern overall than the Xbone or PS4, but at least not on paper.

4. This is one of the first rumors we've gotten which exclusively talks about the handheld. It either reconfirms that there are multiple devices in the works, or it is an indication that the NX is something which we really can't understand at this point.

5. SemiAccurate is as accurate as their name, but this has seemingly been corroborated by at least two other sources, so it's a fairly solid rumor. The details about Nvidia's "shame" and taking it at a loss are potentially speculation or just colorful writing.

6. 540p screen makes the most sense if the screen is about 5'', because essentially doubling the pixels to 720p for little visual gain vastly increases the battery drain and the GPU power required for the same visuals.

Did I get everything right? Did I miss anything?

 

[KingSnake]

I wonder if this is what actually generated the old Nikkei rumor about NX being built around Android. Maybe the person who reported that heard about Tegra being involved and assumed Android to be used based on that.

 

[dr_rus]

Depends on the big picture long term success. If the Nintendo OS platform is a real thing, then taking a loss on 1st generation to make better profits in the 2nd and 3rd generation and so forth would be a sound business move for them.

Long term success of Nintendo means nothing to NV. Nintendo can switch h/w next time they want to design a console again and that would mean that any loss NV took would be money down the drain.

There's also no point in taking any loss in an IP licensing scheme which any console product is based upon. If this rumor is true NV will license the Tegra IP to Nintendo and Nintendo will contract some foundry to produce chips based on this IP. NV will get some upfront payment for the IP and royalty payments based on platform sales during its lifetime. No reason to take any loss on this at all.

 

[takriel]

What if Nintendo introduced the (console) world to 21:9 gaming with the NX? Now that would be awesome.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Some guy in this thread or the other one already said that people are porting XB1/PS4 games with little to no trouble. They all use the same high-level tools anyway.

Oh ok, then that's fine. I wasn't sure how big of an issue it would be cause they are two very different GPUs.

 

[Orbit_shadow]

SemiAccurate is one of the very worst tech sites on the internet. Even if it stumbles across something which has some nugget of truth in it, if it as much as tangentially involves Nvidia any shred of objectivity flies out of the window in the face of Charlie Demerjian's inexplicable long-term hatred of the company.

Actually, calling it a "tech site" does a disservice to real tech sites. It's more like a fanboy blog.

I apologize, but is this sarcasm? I'm not native English.

 

[Durante]

I apologize, but is this sarcasm? I'm not native English.

No, that's my assessment of SemiAccurate.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

At this point looks like Nintendo is gonna play the "cheaper" card, releasing a under 249$ device which will be both hendheld and home console at the same time...they won't try to compete with Xbox One and PS4 and won't likely get multiplatforms...how could they think this will make better than WiiU?

Obviously... 3DS+WiiU > 75mio.