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Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
anothertech
Member
I feel like this Scorpio is much more akin to the PS3 offering last Gen.
The more powerful, more expensive hardware releasing almost a year after its competitor. We've seen this before.
Also note, PS4 was more powerful AND less expensive than its competitor at launch. Not to mention the absolute sh*tstorm debacle of a launch the Xbone had.
We've already seen how much 'power' alone can sway the gamer mindshare. In short, it doesn't. 360 proved this.
Sony will have to botch it in epic proportions to lose this time around I think.
Either way, the next year and a half are going to be hype AF with hardware from all three big guys coming again. My poor wallet.
The more powerful, more expensive hardware releasing almost a year after its competitor. We've seen this before.
Also note, PS4 was more powerful AND less expensive than its competitor at launch. Not to mention the absolute sh*tstorm debacle of a launch the Xbone had.
We've already seen how much 'power' alone can sway the gamer mindshare. In short, it doesn't. 360 proved this.
Sony will have to botch it in epic proportions to lose this time around I think.
Either way, the next year and a half are going to be hype AF with hardware from all three big guys coming again. My poor wallet.
eyeball_kid
Member
It would be a waste only if the CPU is much much stronger.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
The one good thing about these rumours I suppose is if Sony is on the fence about putting something extra in the Neo like they were about the 4gb vs 8gb then this might push them to go for the higher end option if they believe MS is trying to make the Scopio more powerful than the Neo to close the gap.
anothertech
Member
If I'm not mistaken, the way these iterative consoles will work is once the successive hardware is released, the former is now irrelevant.
So ps4 will play everything 4.5 plays. 4.5 will play everything 5.0 plays. But ps4 won't play 5.0 titles. If that makes sense.
Rumors are stating that there won't be any for Neo. I'm pretty sure there won't be any for the Scorpio -- even if MS presents it as a next generation Xbox to try and get a repeat of the "360 days" in territories in which the Xbox brand is still relevant in.
We will probably see "PlayStation" and "Xbox" cases in game stores with no reference to the names of the systems from those brands since games will work on all relevant systems; The games will just scale and/or install the max amount of visual content based on what console that game is being played on.
I don't think there will be exclusive games for this new iteration, no. But do mind that next gen as we all know it, might have come to an end...
veloxStrix
Banned
That 6~ teraflop number seems a little on the high side. That's around the peak compute of my 980ti, so I'm not sure where they are getting that from in a costly way. Although I suppose the GTX 1080's peak is 10 tflops, so maybe they are banking on big breakthroughs and price/performance increases.
SneakersSO
Member
Power just has not been that big a factor in a console's success per generation. Its a huge factor in the online discussion around consoles, but the larger market doesn't really care about that. They care about games. MS further getting a boost in US & UK for having the power crown back would be fine, if those were markets the X1 struggled with at all, which they aren't. The Xbox's biggest issue is its WW appeal, and power will not help that. Lower price will, getting niche games that appeal to those regions onto the platform will. I mean, its not like the power gap stopped a few 3rd party games from selling better on X1 than on PS4 in the last 2 & a half years (in NA & UK, obviously.
Also, I don't think the Scorpio will be as big of a reset as people think in terms of market impact or perception. Honestly, one of the reasons I felt consumers were reluctant to accept a new generation earlier last time around was because we had spent so much money investing in those platforms (PS3 & 360). These new platforms have asked us to invest even more in these digital platforms and in an even shorter amount of time. My speculative analysis is that consumers are even more locked into the ecosystems they picked out these last few years, and relying on a console that is over a year out to possibly turn that tide is a bit foolish, especially when their comparable competitor will have had nearly 12 months of free reign on the market.
At this point, with forward compatibility bringing over your digital library through these iterations, this is going to cause users to become even more attached to the platforms they've spent money on. Sony is predicting that they'll be at 60 million sold WW by the end of April of next year. Adding another 6 months onto that, and they could be nearly 63-65 million. I don't think Scorpio can launch against that large of an entrenched install base that they are going to hope to siphon from.
I think this is how things will be. Consoles will still get the same time period of support that the Xbox 360/PS3 got (7-8 years), it's just that there will be a better version of that console during its last 4 years.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Unless you have been around here for only a year, I doubt you could honestly find it really surprising
. The "most powerful console never wins" meme has been used, incorrectly IMHO, by fans of each of the console manufacturers when their console was not the fastest followed by excitement for hardware performance when the new hardware from the company they love is rumoured to be faster than the competition. The ~900p vs 1080p not mattering followed now by an excitement for true 4K ? You can find examples of this left and right.
Rellik
Member
You're cant really do a direct comparison between nVidia and AMD when it comes to teraflops. You're better comparing to AMDs desktop cards.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not really, in the scenario you quoted, as developers will need to target to an ever moving common denominator situation that gets worse with the reduced time between iterations. From a few years of cross gen titles to a never ending cross gen titles period.
Agnostic Priest
Member
I realize it's not the same at all, but look at Samsung vs Apple. Samsung was the underdog, and now aren't they selling more than Apple? If they aren't it's gotta be close.
Yes I know very big differences, but I think the market can eventually swing back to MS if they provide a solid product that people really like. I know I've always loved my Samsungs customization over Apple phones (I've alternated a couple times due to company phones), and maybe Windows 10 is their answer.
It all has to play out perfectly, and I bet MS will pay a lot to make happen.
Yes I know very big differences, but I think the market can eventually swing back to MS if they provide a solid product that people really like. I know I've always loved my Samsungs customization over Apple phones (I've alternated a couple times due to company phones), and maybe Windows 10 is their answer.
It all has to play out perfectly, and I bet MS will pay a lot to make happen.
I'm fine with this new console arms race, but it does ensure that I'm not getting a new console from either the Sony or Microsoft camp any time soon. I already moved to PC gaming years ago, but still got a PS4 as a complementary system. This just ensures that I'm going all in on PC.
Don't think that this makes sense, as there are a ton of titles (especially) indies that can run on 4.0 when ps 5 is out. Think it should be more like on PC.
The new Battlefield won't run on shitty laptops - but the next telltale game can run on a onboard gpu (which is sub ps4/xbone). They should just label games with compatibility tier. PS4 is 1, 4.5 is 2 and so on
Even games released when the ps6 is out could run on a ps4 - as on pc. Of course this won't be AAA games.
They need a guideline when a title won't be compatible anymore. For instance 720p and 30FPS could be considered as to weak for ps4 (tier 1).
It's not hard to imagine how will Xbone up-port games look like.
This answer... NO. YOU MUST PICK A SIDE AND FIGHT FOR IT'S HONOR. I want to hear none of this "I play on the PC" stuff.
I've decided you are on team NX
A few months isn't enough to have significant differences normally. This time around you're in the middle of a die shrink so there are potential gains to be had by waiting a little longer. But next time maybe PS5 gets an advantage if the technology is mature and they hit the market first eg with HBM2 and the next Xbox is just the same.
This interleaving of releases helps both sides avoid direct conflict, and let's them focus on managing their existing communities. In a way it's bad for MS to transition to incremental machines at a point where their box has underperformed out of the gate.
pixelation
Member
Even if price doesn't matter to parents (it does), the "cool" system to own is the PS4. If kids hear about a new PS or XB system coming out they'll want the new version of the reigning "cool" system for sure, the fact that it most assuredly will also be cheaper is an added bonus.
mangochutney
Member
Not a case of won't be any more PS4 titles, but rather the mandate that you must release for it will be dropped.
pixelation
Member
You're right... PS4K 299 bucks and XBOS 399 buckeroos.
PdotMichael
Banned
The Playstation 3 was outselling the 360 WW for years even with all the subpar ports.
What do people think what will happen now?
What do people think what will happen now?
Interesting to see how this develops. Especially pricing related to 'power'. No idea how expensive would be , compared to PC gaming, having consoles with those rumoured specs, 4 and 6 TF, and what do those flops mean to realworld performance and how will developers choose to 'scale' their games for different systems with different specs :
sub 1080p 30fps XBO?
1080p 30fps for ps4?
1080p 60fps? for Neo?
4K 30fps? or 1080p 60fps better textures etc.... Scorpio?
VR?
What do console owners really want? At what price?
Because that will be key. Wasn't Neo rumoured to have a version with better CPU but more expensive but that wasn't the main option because it would be a bit too much for a console?
Also backwards compatibilty is a must now, since many go digital, to keep people within your ecosystem. So that is also a priority when designing these updated consoles.
sub 1080p 30fps XBO?
1080p 30fps for ps4?
1080p 60fps? for Neo?
4K 30fps? or 1080p 60fps better textures etc.... Scorpio?
VR?
What do console owners really want? At what price?
Because that will be key. Wasn't Neo rumoured to have a version with better CPU but more expensive but that wasn't the main option because it would be a bit too much for a console?
Also backwards compatibilty is a must now, since many go digital, to keep people within your ecosystem. So that is also a priority when designing these updated consoles.
That's why they'll keep the slim around.
Working two jobs isn't uncommon nowadays tho
AnthonypUK
Member
This, and its only got worse mindshare from that gen with the ROW, they won't recover by slapping out another expensive, but more powewrful console, we've had retail insiders telling us just how the expensive XO bundles are not selling in the US, unless this new console of theirs will retail at $299 or less on release its DOA, its already selling for less than that in the rest of europe and people are still not buying it.
And thats aside form addressing the main problem which is worlwide marketing, the brand name and matching the competition with the breadth and diversity of games and turning the audience they have fostered for their consoles to actually buy those games.
veloxStrix
Banned
Comparing PC to console is silly enough, but if I'm going to make silly comparison I think Console AMD vs Desktop nVidia is better since the consoles typically have better optimization than the desktop AMD cards. But it's all pretty moot anyways.
They've branded them selves as a software/services company, I hope they consider this with the price of the console and make it a loss leader. You know, they drive they're revenue from their offering of services, so let them put the money where their mouth is.
Xbox being more powerful sounds about right? You get what you pay for.
If Scorpio is as powerful as the rumours say, then I'm seeing it as more of a ninth-gen console than a mid-gen upgrade. Xbox the First released in 2001 in NA and 2002 everywhere else and was followed up by the 360 in 2005, so the timescale by which Scorpio is being released is not dissimilar. I think it completely depends on whether or not they release exclusive Scorpio games: if yes than it's a new gen, if not then it's a mid-gen upgrade.
This does put Sony in an odd spot. While they are the market leaders and will most likely keep their position, by the end of 2017 we could see Microsoft and Nintendo on board the next-gen train while Sony is stuck in gen 8.5. This puts Sony in a difficult position if this is the case, as PS5 probably wouldn't come out until 2019 at the earliest.
This does put Sony in an odd spot. While they are the market leaders and will most likely keep their position, by the end of 2017 we could see Microsoft and Nintendo on board the next-gen train while Sony is stuck in gen 8.5. This puts Sony in a difficult position if this is the case, as PS5 probably wouldn't come out until 2019 at the earliest.
justsomeguy
Member
edit: .
I also think they should make an exclusive game but games nowadays can scale absolutely well. Hell, people get crazy over smallest differences in the DF threads. Why won't they get even more crazy with higher LOD, supersampling, better textures, better IQ, bigger draw distance and so on?
Look how good AC:Unity could look on a PC instead of console. And this isn't even only considering the resolution difference.
Price can go either way. They could sell it at a loss, or find a way to cut it down to 500-600. You can always wait for the price to drop once they bring out the Xbox Scorpio 2 two or three years after the first edition comes out!
Dinky Dino
Member
Why? The can just scale the graphics like ultra vs low. Now that they introduced all this stuff people absolutely thought wouldn't happen, they can pretty much do anything. Parity gets tossed out the window as soon as this happened because if anyone thinks either company won't take advantage of the extra power to try to get the leg up on one another, they are kidding themselves.
Of course. Sony wanted people to talk about the differences in power and it is totally clear why they wanted it. It is giving you an advantage in perception by the hardcore fans which will get to the media and the media will tell it to a broader audience. Nothing wrong with that, especially considering that the Xbone was also more expensive than the more powerful PS4 in the beginning.
People don't want to buy inferior products and what would be easier to compare products by raw numbers? I mean, give me 1 dollar for everytime someone on GAF posted the spec comparison of the two consoles. I could have a nice holiday
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
You guys have to remember that 6 tflops includes the CPU and is not just the GPU. It's also pertinent to know that this is AMD tflops not Nvidia. 6 tflops puts it around the 390X. Take away the CPU from that and you're left with something around the GTX 970. Which doesnt seem so impressive at the end of 2017.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
I wonder what's the NVIDIA equivalent...
amstradcpc
Member
Yeah, see this Beyond3d post vindicated by the No Man Sky news appeared today:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1916406/
Rumor from a friend working in retail and had a meeting with a Sony rep
Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3
A non announced exclusive game will be release for end of year.
No Man Sky is not coming next month and delay until at least August.
No PS4 Neo this year, PSVR is the end of year product.
Edit: he didn't precise if it is Xbox One slim or Xbox Next
I think they are going also for the upper power next year. Knowing Sony they will never launch an underpowered console knowing beforehand what the competition has. Who knows, maybe the leaked docs with Neo specs was a controlled leakage to mislead MS.
The Praiseworthy
Member
No..
PS4 and PS4.5 Will share the same games.
PS5 and PS5.5 Will share the same games.
Ect ect ect
pixelation
Member
Yes, but i bet that what MS wants is to sell more... and not just being the most powerful system. So if they sell at a higher cost than the PS4K that doesn't look likely at all.
Of course not. The only good things come from Sony
Seriously, can MS do anything to impress you?Of course it is also the CPU. What do you realistically expect? By that number, it will better than an PS4k. But is that so important that we have to have posts that try to put a "realistic" view on it?
Both manufacturers can only put in what the market offers. Neither PS4k, nor Xbox2 will be high end devices because of their prices. Neither will have groundbreaking tech nobody knows about, the effect of "coding to the metal" will be smaller than ever and people hyped about hardware will also disappear. Both are going the PC route and hardware enthusiasts will never be impressed again because there will never be "secret" hardware again in a console. Only off-the-shelf hardware with perhaps some small modifications.