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PS4 PRO 4K native games (will update the list everytime there is a new game)

O

onQ123

Member
Bound rendered in 4K for PS4 Pro PSVR? I know it was already being rendered at 2688 x 1512 for PSVR on PS4. so 2X that would be 4032 x 2268


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220112635&postcount=40


irkutsk12 said:
On Pro we will render 2 times more internal pixels and we will add volumetric fog. We have nice pixel density on regular PS4, comparable to those from Playroom VR and Worlds

If you are interested how Bound is handled in PSVR and know more about the development, and pitfalls of VR game production please check this video that I recorded two days ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg4Ti7rFmqA

Here's the second part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlrBBRp5p00

Thanks!
Click to expand...

irkutsk12 said:
Thank you :)



1.4x framebuffer is used to boost up antialiasing quality in the center of the PSVR screen. It means that we render to 2688 x 1512 screen. Basically in VR the worst you can get is aliasing because it hurts your eyes. On the other hand the image can't be blurry since it will also hurt your eyes but in different way (you won't be able to catch the focus). That's why we decided that we need push hard to have the best possible rendering in PSVR. Super simple pipeline + 4xMSAA and we are there. The only thing is the sahdows aliasing. If VR will be popular, then I believe new techniques will pop out.



Yeah I'll skip that answer for a better time. But imagine this 4K photomode :) - almost ready for HQ prints :).

Thanks again for kind words - the team is reading and appreciates that!
Click to expand...
 
O

onQ123

Member
Also Bound is the 2nd or 3rd game that has added a volumetric effect in the Pro upgrade so I'm almost positive that they have added something to the PS4 Pro for better volume rendering.
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
onQ123 said:
Bound rendered in 4K for PS4 Pro PSVR? I know it was already being rendered at 2688 x 1512 for PSVR on PS4. so 2X that would be 4032 x 2268
Click to expand...

It's the kind of game I expect would have a shot at native 4K due to its S imple but very effective aesthetic. That said, your math is dubious. 2688 times root two is just over 3800, and the vertical dimension is similarly off at around 2138. Still a solid case for a native 4K frame buffer.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Lady Gaia said:
It's the kind of game I expect would have a shot at native 4K due to its S imple but very effective aesthetic. That said, your math is dubious. 2688 times root two is just over 3800, and the vertical dimension is similarly off at around 2138. Still a solid case for a native 4K frame buffer.
Click to expand...


You sure about that? I take 2X the resolution to be + 50% both ways




Edit: something went wrong lol I tried to use quick math


You just cut that in half SMH
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
onQ123 said:
You sure about that? I take 2X the resolution to be + 50% both ways
Click to expand...

That's a really rough approximation. 1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25 instead of 2. The square root of two is a lot closer to a 41% increase at 1.4142135...

A quick visualization shows why two 50% increases don't work the way you expected:

EXNiYoe.png
 
I

irkutsk12

Neo Member
Hi,

I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.

Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out :)
 
O

onQ123

Member
Lady Gaia said:
That's a really rough approximation. 1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25 instead of 2. The square root of two is a lot closer to a 41% increase at 1.4142135...
Click to expand...

Yes I said it in the edit that you left out of your quote that I had messed up trying to do a quick solution.
 
O

onQ123

Member
irkutsk12 said:
Hi,

I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.

Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out :)
Click to expand...


Cool & the cheaper quad sampling for textures make sense in a game like this
 
K

kami_sama

Member
irkutsk12 said:
Hi,

I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.

Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out :)
Click to expand...

Great, will surely buy bound when I get my pro.
 
I

irkutsk12

Neo Member
We will be making official announcement soon, so I'll drop couple of native 4K photomode shoots PNG's for you to take a look. They are huge - 12 - 16 MB each ;)
 
V

viHuGi

Banned
Wait a dev coming here explaining things about the game? That's GREAT!

Just because of that I'm buying Bound as soon as I get home (Next weekend) and will play it on Pro, I have just one question :

What happens if I play on a 1080p TV? Does it know and adjust accordingly?
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
irkutsk12 said:
Hi,

I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.

Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarficiation here. I added Bound to OP.
 
S

#sorrynotsorry

Member
Great resource. Definitely bookmarking. I would say though that if you don't know the FPS, just leave it off. Don't guess. You never know for sure.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
viHuGi said:
Wait a dev coming here explaining things about the game? That's GREAT!

Just because of that I'm buying Bound as soon as I get home (Next weekend) and will play it on Pro, I have just one question :

What happens if I play on a 1080p TV? Does it know and adjust accordingly?
Click to expand...

It is great indeed.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
dogen said:
Seems like they're using 8x MSAA at 1080p then scaling that up to 4k(not sure the method), which gives them native 4k 2x MSAA quality for geometry.
Click to expand...

This is what understood too. Anyway, I copied what he said in OP.

onQ123 said:
The geometry mesh is the same as it would be in 4K but the texture sampling is using less samples. (I think) .
Click to expand...

This is what understood too. It is a kind of trade off to get native 4K in output. It is like with Mantis Burn Racing where it disables AA in 4K to keep 60 FPS.
 
bodine1231

bodine1231

Member
Man,this has me thinking about selling my X34 and getting a 4k HDR TV for my bedroom. I already have an OLED tv but its the earlier model that doesnt have HDR and is only 1080p. If I could sell that I would but I can't afford the 4K Oleds. (if I sold both I could I guess)
 
F

flozuki

Member
irkutsk12 said:
Hi,

I'll write about Bound on PRO. Bound will run in hybrid mode. During normal gameplay we will be using 2160P 60Hz MSAA x2 upscaled from MSAAx8 . It means that geometric quality of rendering will be exactly the same as native 4K, but textures will be sampled for block of 2x2 pixels. In our game we are using almost no textures so the difference is hard to see in motion.
On the other hand we use native 4K in photo mode, which is amazing! We have regular trips to our SUHD screen of people trying to play with new photo mode features.
As for VR. We enabled new effects in VR like volumetric lights. On top of that we are rendering sharper shadows - which are crucial in VR and rendering to 4K internal screen which is then supersampled to 1080P display in PSVR. We can do 4K rendering for PSVR since there are still unused black spots that saves us 15% of bandwidth. In native 4K we have places in the game that run at about 50 fps, and that's wy we decided to not use it.

Thanks in your interest! If you have Bound and PSVR, then you already have a free patch that enables VR for our game. Go and check it out :)
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks for the info! Just bought it thanks to another GAF-Thread and am soooo looking forward to play it in VR in a few hours :D
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
dano1 said:
I heard in a podcast that Viking Squad was native 4K 60 on PS pro at launch.

This is what I found

https://t.co/i1cqzyfDNY
Click to expand...

Thanks added to OP. It seems they are using some tricks (like with Bound) where they render the textures at lower resolutions and then upscale them using different methods and post processing, ending in very close final results when they output the whole package in native 4K.
 
I

irkutsk12

Neo Member
You understand it right. Multisampling works like this - it shades one pixel, but samples against the edge of triangle multiple times. That's why if we upscale 1080P up to 4K we have 2x2 blocks of shaded pixels but the edge samples can be distributed in such way that each sample fits in correct 4K pixel. So:

1080P 4XMSAA can be resolved to 4K without MSAA
1080P 8xMSAA can be resolved to 4K with MSAA 2x (2 samples for each pixel in 4K)
1080P 16xMSAA can be resolved to 4K with MSAA 4x and so on.

The question is - why others do checkboard and different techniques? Because they mostly use deferred rendering with temporal supersampling antialiasing (TSAA). We use old classic forward because it's faster, but you need to have super simple shaders. And then MSAA is easy to implement.
Basically having own tech for VR stuff is crucial IMHO, because you want to have control over the whole pipeline and do a lot of stuff in parallel. In case of Bound there's a lot of things on screen that can be done in parallel, like ocean of cubes, all the deformations. It's mostly the character that needs to have zero delay.

And to clarify on VR resolution:

We use so called fovated rendering, but the name can differ depending on vendor.
It looks like this:

you have 1Kx1K res for the center of one eye
next 1Kx1K res for the whole image of one eye

So, given 2 eyes we have four 1Kx1K . On regular PS4 we multiply them by 1.5x factor
on PRO we use 2x multiplication so we have four 2Kx2K textures.

In the end you combine those two images into one single
960x1080 eye image

So if you have better input textures then you will have supersampled eyes in the end.
 
P

potatohead

Member
Literally the only reason I am considering NBA 2k17 is because of native 4k but I want to wait for cheaper price

I did pre-order cod iw tho and yakuza and tag and a bunch of other games and 3 vr games DC rigs and battlezone gonna be sick on ps4 pro
 
BigEmil

BigEmil

Junior Member
I wonder if devs see this thread and think oh I must make it native 4k now. Thus not the checkboard uprender technique with more bells and whistles or higher frameeate though options would be good as I don't care for native 4k the uprender with more stuff is good enough for me.
 
PLASTICA-MAN

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
irkutsk12 said:
You understand it right. Multisampling works like this - it shades one pixel, but samples against the edge of triangle multiple times. That's why if we upscale 1080P up to 4K we have 2x2 blocks of shaded pixels but the edge samples can be distributed in such way that each sample fits in correct 4K pixel. So:

1080P 4XMSAA can be resolved to 4K without MSAA
1080P 8xMSAA can be resolved to 4K with MSAA 2x (2 samples for each pixel in 4K)
1080P 16xMSAA can be resolved to 4K with MSAA 4x and so on.

The question is - why others do checkboard and different techniques? Because they mostly use deferred rendering with temporal supersampling antialiasing (TSAA). We use old classic forward because it's faster, but you need to have super simple shaders. And then MSAA is easy to implement.
Basically having own tech for VR stuff is crucial IMHO, because you want to have control over the whole pipeline and do a lot of stuff in parallel. In case of Bound there's a lot of things on screen that can be done in parallel, like ocean of cubes, all the deformations. It's mostly the character that needs to have zero delay.

And to clarify on VR resolution:

We use so called fovated rendering, but the name can differ depending on vendor.
It looks like this:

you have 1Kx1K res for the center of one eye
next 1Kx1K res for the whole image of one eye

So, given 2 eyes we have four 1Kx1K . On regular PS4 we multiply them by 1.5x factor
on PRO we use 2x multiplication so we have four 2Kx2K textures.

In the end you combine those two images into one single
960x1080 eye image

So if you have better input textures then you will have supersampled eyes in the end.
Click to expand...

Wow. I knew SSM was a really skilled studio, knowing their tech very well. I can't wait to see what your studio would do with GOW4 on PS4 PRO. You already pulled a kind of secret "HD" mode with GOW2 on PS2. I hope you do another wonder with GOW4 on PS4 PRO.
 
O

onQ123

Member
PLASTICA-MAN said:
Wow. I knew SSM was a really skilled studio, knowing their tech very well. I can't wait to see what your studio would do with GOW4 on PS4 PRO. You already pulled a kind of secret "HD" mode with GOW2 on PS2. I hope you do another wonder with GOW4 on PS4 PRO.
Click to expand...


I think he is from Plastic
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
Taking advantage of MSAA in this manner is great way to get some of the perceived benefits of increased resolution while controlling both GPU and memory bandwidth costs. It's worth keeping in mind that it's not just texture sampling that takes place at 1080p but also lighting and any other fragment shader work normally done on a per-pixel basis with the sole exception of geometric coverage.

We'll see a lot of different approaches to delivering benefits in 4K without brute-force native resolution rendering.
 
I

irkutsk12

Neo Member
Lady Gaia said:
Taking advantage of MSAA in this manner is great way to get some of the perceived benefits of increased resolution while controlling both GPU and memory bandwidth costs. It's worth keeping in mind that it's not just texture sampling that takes place at 1080p but also lighting and any other fragment shader work normally done on a per-pixel basis with the sole exception of geometric coverage.
Click to expand...
That's absolutely correct.
 
P

Planet

Member
That means that IMHO this game doesn't really belong in the OP list. Still it does serve as a great reminder that the borders of resolution differences aren't as clear cut as many would like to draw them. The Pro opens up a multitude of ways to improve image quality (not just) for 4K owners. It is a clever upgrade at a nice price performance ratio.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Planet said:
That means that IMHO this game doesn't really belong in the OP list. Still it does serve as a great reminder that the borders of resolution differences aren't as clear cut as many would like to draw them. The Pro opens up a multitude of ways to improve image quality (not just) for 4K owners. It is a clever upgrade at a nice price performance ratio.
Click to expand...

It kinda does because in VR it's internal resolution is 4K.
 
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