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[onQ123]

No, he doesn't have a point.

If something isn't natively rendered at a resolution, its not actually that resolution. OnQ keeps pushing 2160pr as legit 4K. It's not.

Now, we can talk about the smart way to use the PS4 Pro's power or how the difference isn't that noticeable compared to native 4K, but if its not, its not. And its especially egregious to claim 2160pr as legit after how much noise this forum has made about the tricks a certain other console had to use to reach 1080p in some cases.

Either you hit the mark or you don't.

Where am I pushing this as true 4K? I'm telling it as it is & the resolution is 4K it's just using a cheaper rendering technique.

 

[Aces&Eights]

Between this thread and it only being $20.00 on the PS Store, Insomniac just got another sale. Can't wait for the Pro.

One more week!

 

[BigEmil]

I'll take efficient techniques such as Temporal Injection & Checkboarding than brute force 4k.
Not only do they output similar results to native when playing on your TV but also leaves more resources free allowing for even more in depth upgrades in visuals and performance

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Beyond a miniscule vocal minority, there is no evidence that framerate options on consoles increase sales in a way that matters fuck all to a studio's bottom line.

Performance options on PC seem like a pretty big threat to Sony.

But yeah, I'm sure they put "High Framerates" on the back of the box just for the "miniscule vocal minority."

Sorry, but you're talking out of your ass here.

Clearly you would know, friend.

 

[Memento]

The screenshots are gorgeous. Honestly IQ is one of the most important things for me, so I am loving all these supersampled solutions and better antialiasing/resolution.

 

[RoadHazard]

The way some people expect the PS4 Pro to be able to magically make every game 60 fps (if keeping the same visual fidelity as on the regular PS4) is astounding. You guys clearly don't understand what the Pro is. While the GPU is getting a 2x+ upgrade, the CPU is getting a much smaller performance bump. Not nearly enough to double the framerate unless the game in question is very light on CPU utilization. And many PS4 games are CPU-bound rather than GPU-bound. So in general it's just not happening. Increasing the resolution and/or adding more advanced lighting and shading, on the other hand, is something that doesn't really affect the CPU, so that's easy to do with the increased GPU performance.

 

[Eusis]

Insomniac said in a press release they will no longer make 60fps games, just 30fps with graphics up all the way they can go.

Yeah, I guess they want to dogmatically stick to that rather than try to go for 60fps when the option to patch a game for it pops up. :/

EDIT: Though it is true that they couldn't necessarily hit 60 FPS anyway. But it's still kinda lame that a series that was great about having that has it entirely abandoned even when the opportunity could be there.

And I wonder if it may have been a bit of a miscalculation on their part, but we'll see what future hardware brings.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Yeah, I guess they want to dogmatically stick to that rather than try to go for 60fps when the option to patch a game for it pops up. :/
...
And I wonder if it may have been a bit of a miscalculation on their part, but we'll see what future hardware brings.

All the more confusing why they're making VR games too.

Has nothing to do with hardware. Decisions for 60fps have always depended on developer priorities.

 

[platocplx]

The way some people expect the PS4 Pro to be able to magically make every game 60 fps (if keeping the same visual fidelity as on the regular PS4) is astounding. You guys clearly don't understand what the Pro is. While the GPU is getting a 2x+ upgrade, the CPU is getting a much smaller performance bump. Not nearly enough to double the framerate unless the game in question is very light on CPU utilization. And many PS4 games are CPU-bound rather than GPU-bound. So in general it's just not happening. Increasing the resolution and/or adding more advanced lighting and shading, on the other hand, is something that doesn't really affect the CPU, so that's easy to do with the increased GPU performance.

It kind of shows who really knows what they are talking about vs the ones who just kinda assume devs click a few buttons and bam its 60 FPS with no tradeoffs

All the more confusing why they're making VR games too.

VR games =/= to 3D games when it comes to frame rate needs.

 

[RichiRamjag]

The way some people expect the PS4 Pro to be able to magically make every game 60 fps (if keeping the same visual fidelity as on the regular PS4) is astounding. You guys clearly don't understand what the Pro is. While the GPU is getting a 2x+ upgrade, the CPU is getting a much smaller performance bump. Not nearly enough to double the framerate unless the game in question is very light on CPU utilization. And many PS4 games are CPU-bound rather than GPU-bound. So in general it's just not happening. Increasing the resolution and/or adding more advanced lighting and shading, on the other hand, is something that doesn't really affect the CPU, so that's easy to do with the increased GPU performance.

Honestly, I think the majority already know what the system is capable of when voicing the complaints.

 

[Mifune]

But this game already looks supersampled!

(okay, I exaggerate but it really is beautiful)

 

[NYmanutd]

I dont know if i should get a 4k tv and the ps4 pro now, i wasnt planning to get one but i think all the games that i have enjoyed on the ps4 will get a patch.

 

[SolidusDave]

The only good thing about the Pro is that it encourages developers to patch HDR into their games and thankfully Sony allows that to run on standard PS4 as well.
HDR is anyway more noticeable and relevant for the graphics than the bump from 1080p to sub-4K resolutions and doesn't cost me $400


Just bought R&C, it's half price in the EU PS store right now.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

VR games =/= to 3D games when it comes to frame rate needs.

Care to share that made-up rulebook you're drawing from?

It kind of shows who really knows what they are talking about vs the ones who just kinda assume devs click a few buttons and bam its 60 FPS with no tradeoffs

Or where you're pulling assumptions like these from?

 

[Risk Breaker]

The way some people expect the PS4 Pro to be able to magically make every game 60 fps (if keeping the same visual fidelity as on the regular PS4) is astounding. You guys clearly don't understand what the Pro is. While the GPU is getting a 2x+ upgrade, the CPU is getting a much smaller performance bump. Not nearly enough to double the framerate unless the game in question is very light on CPU utilization. And many PS4 games are CPU-bound rather than GPU-bound. So in general it's just not happening. Increasing the resolution and/or adding more advanced lighting and shading, on the other hand, is something that doesn't really affect the CPU, so that's easy to do with the increased GPU performance.

What people need to have as a reference is something like, if a game on PS4 is running at 45 FPS on average (if unlocked, obviously), it could ideally almost do 60 on PS4 Pro (45 + 30%). This means, however, that it would have to be a 30 FPS locked game that never (or almost never) drops a frame, like Driveclub, and there aren't many of those. One could argue that Driveclub could potentially run unlocked at an average framerate close to 60 on PS4 Pro.

Any games that drop below 30 "often", even if it's just 1 or 2 frames, would have a lower average than 45, and would absolutely not work unlocked on PS4 Pro, although they would be very stable when locked at 30.

There are also games that are simply made for 30 FPS and the developers have no intention or way to make them work at 60 without a huge amount of effort.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah I was really hoping for 60FPS as well

But the CPU only has a small jump - it's only the GPU that is more than doubled. Unless you have a game that is unlocked running at 45-50fps I doubt you'd have enough CPU improvement to go from 30->60fps

Pro is GPU focused which means resolution/AA/increased settings but not really frame rate (other than to stabilise one or perhaps round up an unlocked one)

 

[Fisty]

Care to share that made-up rulebook you're drawing from?

People don't usually puke their guts out playing games at 30fps on a TV. So the rulebook he's pulling from would be a high school physiology textbook

 

[jstevenson]

There are also games that are simply made for 30 FPS and the developers have no intention or way to make them work at 60 without a huge amount of effort.

Yeah, our engine is certainly capable of high framerates (see our Oculus titles at 90) --- that said, Ratchet's utilization and optimization of the PS4 hardware was dialed in for a locked 30, so the effort to re-architect that would be gigantic.

 

[Peterthumpa]

The only good thing about the Pro is that it encourages developers to patch HDR into their games and thankfully Sony allows that to run on standard PS4 as well.
HDR is anyway more noticeable and relevant for the graphics than the bump from 1080p to sub-4K resolutions and doesn't cost me $400


Just bought R&C, it's half price in the EU PS store right now.

Definitely not for me. Aliasing ruins EVERY game that I play, it's always distracting, and it was VERY distracting in R&C.
I'm glad the Pro solves that.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Yeah. Like if Nintendo got Mario running 60 FPS on Wii U why not this? It's not even real 4k.

At 720p with dips? Lmao

 

[5taquitos]

Yeah, our engine is certainly capable of high framerates (see our Oculus titles at 90) --- that said, Ratchet's utilization and optimization of the PS4 hardware was dialed in for a locked 30, so the effort to re-architect that would be gigantic.

No, you just have to click the "60 FPS" option. You may have missed it, it's in the "Tools" menu.

Spoiler

keep up the awesome work!

 

[SapientWolf]

Some games are getting improved framerates just not an Insomniac game. They decided that 60fps was not worth the trouble and put out a press release stating none of their games would be 60fps. Their own market research showed that consumers prefer prettier games at 30fps.

60fps with less eye candy doesn't seem to hurt the Mario franchise any.

It's good that R&C isn't a real platformer because I don't want to have to do precision jumping at 30fps.

 

[CouchMaster]

Some games that were 60 fps this gen that I thought should have been 30(halo 5 for example, though I never played it)

Oh hell no, and you should play it to see why not.

 

[AdanVC]

Damn if this game already looked like a Pixar movie, now it will look like... a Pixar movie 2.0 game idk. This is so cool.

 

[desmax]

Is the patch out now?

Might try out HDR later if so

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Performance options on PC seem like a pretty big threat to Sony.

Oh yeah, I'm sure they're really shaking in their boots with their #1 selling console in the world and everything.

But yeah, I'm sure they put "High Framerates" on the back of the box just for the "miniscule vocal minority."

Oh my! Did Sony forget to mention that every game needs to have a locked 60 fps? Or maybe, just maybe it's up to developers to interpret how to utilize the extra power on the Pro? One of the possibilities being, but not guaranteeing, a higher framerate. As has always been the case with game development. Because just so you know, framerate is completely independent from hardware. You could achieve 60 fps on the OG PS4. Or PS3. Or 2. Need I go on? (Not to mention that the PS4 is clearly a response to boosting power for their VR initiative as well as a reaction to 4k HDTVs becoming standard)

In any case, burden of proof is on you my friend. Where is this concrete sales data that shows the addition of performance options on consoles boosts sales? Still waiting!

Yeah, our engine is certainly capable of high framerates (see our Oculus titles at 90) --- that said, Ratchet's utilization and optimization of the PS4 hardware was dialed in for a locked 30, so the effort to re-architect that would be gigantic.

No, Steve, see you guys missed the "60 fps" button. You guys can just do that it with only minor inconveniences and a simple patch. Our resident expert programmer and engine architect explains more here:

Dark Souls and several PS1 and N64 era games are "designed to run at a locked 30fps" or even lower yet you can play them on PC at higher framerates with minor inconveniences that could be easily and rapidly fixed by the developers with a simple patch. Say you guys don't care about 60fps anymore and you prefer shiny graphics but don't act like not going for 60fps on Pro was a decision made because of technical impossibilities.

See, easy! Get crackin on those simple patches devs!

 

[dogen]

Oh hell no, and you should play it to see why not.

I don't know.. I played halo on pc at 30 fps with a controller recently and it was pretty much fine. And this was after playing both 1 & 2 at 60 fps a lot too. But the pop in of all kinds all over the place in halo 5 looks pretty bad. I think that might bother me more than a lower frame rate.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Finally had a chance to look over the screens on my UHD monitor. While the JPEGs are very lossy, softening the pics, there's an obvious huge reduction to aliasing, large increase in genuine sharpness, some artificial sharpening I'd rather do without and oblique texture filtering is still weak.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Oh yeah, I'm sure they're really shaking in their boots with their #1 selling console in the world and everything.

Consoles = PC's now? Good to know!

Oh my! Did Sony forget to mention that every game needs to have a locked 60 fps? Or maybe, just maybe it's up to developers to interpret how to utilize the extra power on the Pro? One of the possibilities being, but not guaranteeing, a higher framerate. As has always been the case with game development. Because just so you know, framerate is completely independent from hardware. You could achieve 60 fps on the OG PS4. Or PS3. Or 2. Need I go on?

Oh, please do. Maybe you'll actually get to a valid point, amidst those words you're putting in my mouth.

In any case, burden of proof is on you my friend. Where is this concrete sales data that shows the addition of performance options on consoles boosts sales? Still waiting!

Certainly! Right after you show me your "concrete sales data" of a majority of console gamers, when presented with an option for 60fps, saying "Nah, I don't give a fuck about 60fps" as you so eloquently put it.

Don't hurt yourself now.

 

[LelouchZero]

The image quality is going to be superb! But damn, I was hoping for a 60 fps mode.

 

[Vuze]

Pretty sad to hear this isn't 60fps on Pro either. Ah well. Will still pick it up at some later point in time.

 

[DOWN]

Come on... A game like this should have been 60fps for the Pro. That's a shame.

What's the implication here? They are lazy or too incompetent to figure out that they can hit 60fps?

Maybe realize 60fps takes too much compromise or conflict with their game for them to want to drop the graphics enough to hit 60

 

[Shin-Ra]

Hopefully the HDR-including patch goes live for PS4 imminently. For inFAMOUS, it's boosted the impact of colourful lighting and surface shaders dramatically.

 

[Spukc]

Was just thinking of that. Thanks.

np mate ur welcome

 

[eso76]

Not 4K? Disappointing.

If those are actual framebuffer grabs, then they could have told you it was native 4k and you'd have absolutely no reason to doubt them.

People want optimisation and when a developer says they found a cheaper solution to achieve comparable results they are disappointed because it's "not 4k".
Smh.

 

[tearsintherain]

Cool news, got the plat on R&C over the summer and it was one of my favorite games. Doubt I'll ever replay it again though, so still neutral on getting a PS 4 Pro.

For me at this point it sorta feels like Horizon Dawn is gonna be the game that pushes me over the edge. I need to buy a new 4K TV and HD may be the game that pushes me to buy a new TV and change consoles, but the current list of games doesn't really do it right now. Maaaaybe if I see FF15, Dishonored 2, and Watch Dogs 2 are radically different but haven't really seen enough on those 3 yet.

 

[platocplx]

Care to share that made-up rulebook you're drawing from?


Or where you're pulling assumptions like these from?

no made up Rulebook you have to have a high frame rate for VR games, you DONT need one for 3D games. This is common knowledge.

Assumptions are based on your asinine assertions in this thread that 60 FPS is all or nothing and the only thing that matters which its clear it doesnt matter to mass public other than posters like you that Poo Poo a game based on one technical aspect while it offers a ton of great gameplay, story, atmosphere but by God if its not 60FPS its shit. but keep up the evangelism and snarkiness for 60fps.

Oh my! Did Sony forget to mention that every game needs to have a locked 60 fps? Or maybe, just maybe it's up to developers to interpret how to utilize the extra power on the Pro? One of the possibilities being, but not guaranteeing, a higher framerate. As has always been the case with game development. Because just so you know, framerate is completely independent from hardware. You could achieve 60 fps on the OG PS4. Or PS3. Or 2. Need I go on? (Not to mention that the PS4 is clearly a response to boosting power for their VR initiative as well as a reaction to 4k HDTVs becoming standard)

He doesnt have any. hes just gonna circle the drain on this.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Assumptions are based on your asinine assertions in this thread that 60 FPS is all or nothing and the only thing that matters which its clear it doesnt matter to mass public other than posters like you that Poo Poo a game based on one technical aspect while it offers a ton of great gameplay, story, atmosphere but by God if its not 60FPS its shit. but keep up the evangelism and snarkiness for 60fps.

I don't recall saying any of those hyperboles. You must read just as well as you write.

 

[CyberPunked]

It is 4K just not brute force 4K

So no. Thanks for being clear as ever.

 

[platocplx]

I don't recall saying any of those hyperboles. You must read just as well as you write.

But this difference of opinion wouldn't matter if more devs gave us options like RotTR and Nioh. I guess Insomniac cares less about its fans (and money)?

Not sure why you're celebrating "solid" 30fps as if unlocked 30fps is even an option.


Unlocked 30 games like Nexus are near-unplayable.

I read well enough and between the lines lets not play this silly game about what you said or didnt say its right there regardless if its not a literal translation. Just leave the thread. Its clear you have no interest in this game because it doesnt meet your silly standard. enough of the derailing.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

I read well enough and between the lines lets not play this silly game about what you said or didnt say its right there regardless if its not a literal translation

I read well enough

Sure you do, kiddo.

 

[onQ123]

So no. Thanks for being clear as ever.

No what? the resolution is 2160P/4K using temporal Injection.

 

[icespide]

I read well enough and between the lines lets not play this silly game about what you said or didnt say its right there regardless if its not a literal translation. Just leave the thread. Its clear you have no interest in this game because it doesnt meet your silly standard. enough of the derailing.

just ignore that person, it's what I did

 

[platocplx]

just ignore that person, it's what I did

yeah im over it lmao. Sooo. this update. awesome shit. lol

 

[RichiRamjag]

just ignore that person, it's what I did

Good advice lol.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

just ignore that person, it's what I did

if that's what you got from my post then I'm done with this topic

That didn't last long.

Welcome back.

 

[mrklaw]

Sony provides a piece of hardware

The developers choose how to leverage that hardware to try and provide entertainment that consumers will want to buy

Consumers can choose whether or not to buy said entertainment for whatever reason they want - they don't like 30fps, they're bored of space marines etc

 

[jstevenson]

Clearly the first 2 PS3 games can't be that bad if Nexus was the only game to dip under 30fps. Many people claim to not see a difference between 30fps & 60fps. I'm betting that far fewer are sensitive to drops from 60 to 45.

But this difference of opinion wouldn't matter if more devs gave us options like RotTR and Nioh. I guess Insomniac cares less about its fans (and money)?

Not at all. Options are awesome, but those games and their engine architecture are probably completely different than ours. RotTR especially is built for multiple platformsand scalability etc.

Keep in mind, Ratchet was in development way before PS4 Pro was a thing (or at least, one we knew about). It targeted the original PS4 exclusively and we pushed the system as far as we could. That's a lot of stuff to unwind to suddenly support multiple resolutions / framerates / set-ups, especially if you've using all of the CPU and GPU on the reg PS4.

 

[BriGuy]

I hate how wanting 60fps has become something to sneer at. I personally value frame rates more than anything else when it comes to graphics, and I am still more than happy with 1080p. I just wish more developers would give us a choice in the matter.

 

[xenorevlis]

That didn't last long.

Welcome back.

You realize by topic he meant the discussion with one garbage-spewing user, right? Not that he was done with this thread. The NeoGAF shitty post twitter should make a comeback just to share your collection of baseless insults.