Support NeoGAF

[icespide]

Huh.


You tell me.

Cmon this is neogaf. It's a small bubble of highly opinionated enthusiasts. It's a fraction of the gaming population. I would hope I don't have to explain that

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes

awesome!

 

[Astral Dog]

...thats all?

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

That is a minority in a sea of thousands of games.

The fact of the matter is no large demand, just a vocal minority who is getting annoying at this point.

30fps did not stop R&C PS4 from being a success with the best sales in the series. And it won't going forward.

For someone who loves talking numbers, you have a pretty poor grasp of what 'minority' means.

The best-selling games on a platform are not a minority.

Neither is a vocal group that you hear so often it's "getting annoying."

 

[Inuhanyou]

...thats all?

What else did you expect? Better graphics? Where would they get the superior assets? Better FPS? Insomniac don't see FPS as a priority, and the CPU would limit it anyway.

Of course IQ is generally the main priority of Pro going forward, even though devs can do more if they want, that's why the system is marketed towards UHD sets.

 

[Inuhanyou]

For someone who loves talking numbers, you have a pretty poor grasp of what 'minority' means.

The best-selling games on a platform are not a minority.

Neither is a vocal group that you hear so often it's "getting annoying."

What they sell is irrelevant if their number in terms of the sheer library is the minority.

Again, i'm not even sure what your arguing at this point. R&C doesn't have 60fps either on PS4 or the Pro, it was not the priority of the developers to begin with to push for that.

Deal with it.

 

[breakfuss]

But SOME games are getting those improvements and I'd argue if you can see the difference between 30/60fps you'll be able to see the difference between 1080/4K.

That's comforting to read. Only thing I've experienced in "4K"
so far is Netflix and a couple YouTube videos. They're sharp but I'm not sure if I just want to believe it.

And doesn't look as good as R and C.

Perhaps. R&C is gorgeous as it is, but I think 3D World also achieved a nice balance. It's so freaking smooth and a delight to play. I can't believe it's only 720 lol.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Cmon this is neogaf. It's a small bubble of highly opinionated enthusiasts. It's a fraction of the gaming population. I would hope I don't have to explain that

And despite this, developers still gather valuable feedback from opinions shared here.

Can't be because our opinions matter, can it?

 

[icespide]

And despite this, developers still gather valuable feedback from opinions shared here.

Can't be because our opinions matter, can it?

Did I say they don't? The point is you're trying to use gaf as a metric for growing demand of something which is foolish

 

[TyMiles2012]

Insomniac said in a press release they will no longer make 60fps games, just 30fps with graphics up all the way they can go.

I will be completely fine by this. I didn't play too much of the new R&C but from what I've seen, the frame timing is very good. That's my only concern with lower framerate games.

 

[dogen]

The raging by some posters over their decisions is why i see why devs rarely interact with people who have no idea of their thought process or are just way too invested in the 60FPS or nothing nonsense.

I know this is off topic(I won't mention this anymore), but I want to explain a little.

Normally I don't mind 30 fps. Some games that were 60 fps this gen that I thought should have been 30(halo 5 for example, though I never played it). But when I really like a game AND it runs at 60 fps, the highly responsive control is part of the experience that I really enjoy. So when I play ratchet and clank I guess my brain just expects that level of responsiveness.

The demo just immediately felt much worse to me than what I was used to. But I'm really sensitive to tactile sensation. Input lag is very noticeable to me, and my brain remembers how games feel exactly.

I'm probably a minority. But I do wonder why they used to make 60 fps games.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

Still no 60FPS..

 

[Astral Dog]

What else did you expect? Better graphics? Where would they get the superior assets? Better FPS? Insomniac don't see FPS as a priority, and the CPU would limit it anyway.

Of course IQ is generally the main priority of Pro going forward, even though devs can do more if they want, that's why the system is marketed towards UHD sets.

I mean its all right but i was expecting a bit more on those big paragraphs and this new thread, from a first party game.

Maybe, you understand.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

That's comforting to read. Only thing I've experienced in "4K"
so far is Netflix and a couple YouTube videos. They're sharp but I'm not sure if I just want to believe it.



Perhaps. R&C is gorgeous as it is, but I think 3D World also achieved a nice balance. It's so freaking smooth and a delight to play. I can't believe it's only 720 lol.

If you're really interested then you should find 4K games to be pretty impressive. Both Netflix and Youtube are far too compressed to really show much of a difference in quality but gaming should generally show a significant difference.

The most exciting thing for me is that even if games aren't hitting native 4K aliasing is generally not going to be a problem on the Pro and I consider the difference huge. The base version of Ratchet and Clank had noticeable aliasing but you can already see from the screenshots that the Pro version is very clean. I find the difference to be a huge step up, everything looks so much better with the increased resolution and no jaggies.

The Pro version of Ratchet and Clank in particular should be a real improvement in terms of image quality. I'm excited that these exclusives will have a chance to be played pretty close to jaggy free.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Did I say they don't?

You alluded to it.

The point is you're trying to use gaf as a metric for growing demand of something which is foolish

And now you've said it.

Opinions expressed on GAF apparently don't matter. jstevenson and other devs must've missed the memo.

 

[icespide]

You alluded to it...



And now you've said it. Opinions expressed on GAF apparently don't matter. jstevenson and other devs must've missed the memo.

if that's what you got from my post then I'm done with this topic

 

[DieAntwoord]

Complete and utter bollocks.

This guy is trolling hard.

"I didn't bother to do 30 seconds of a Google search therefore this guy is lying"

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

if that's what you got from my post then I'm done with this topic

Just like when you entered.

Bye.

 

[Ryde3]

High fiving myself right now for random dropping the game after 2 hours.

lol I bought it with my E3 discount and haven't even opened it yet, hurray!

 

[jstevenson]

Thanks for your work! Can't wait to see this game in HDR, should look incredible.

Edit: Any word if the patch will go live early so we can check out HDR on the regular PS4?

It should be out early but it's clearing format now so fingers crossed

 

[guybrushfreeman]

It should be out early but it's clearing format now so fingers crossed

Thanks for the reply. I've been enjoying checking out HDR on games before the release of the Pro and I'm particularly excited for this one.

 

[Vitacat]

Already a great looking game. I can barely imagine it looking much better, depending on how far you are from the screen and screen size.

Not sure I'll upgrade to PS4 Pro, but it's getting more tempting as these update stories emerge.

Show me Bloodborne at 60fps and no hitches and then my hand may be forced.

 

[joms5]

So it's safe to assume that when Sony one day shuts off the servers to get these patches, all these disc versions will be non 4k/HDR out of the package?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I mean its all right but i was expecting a bit more on those big paragraphs and this new thread, from a first party game.

Maybe, you understand.

First parties are no different from third when it comes to what they can prioritize you know?

 

[Inuhanyou]

So it's safe to assume that when Sony one day shuts off the servers to get these patches, all these disc versions will be non 4k/HDR out of the package?

After launch, most games are expected to have the Pro support patch on disk.

Also...in regards to your servers question, when that day comes, it will either be when PS4 and Pro are made irrelevant, or Sony goes under. Their servers for these PSN ecosystems are all connected at this point, they can't just 'shut them off'.

 

[onQ123]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Is the temporal injection coming from a previous frame or is it that each frame is made from 2 new 4MP fields?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

For someone who loves talking numbers, you have a pretty poor grasp of what 'minority' means.

The best-selling games on a platform are not a minority.

Neither is a vocal group that you hear so often it's "getting annoying."

Explain how GTAV sold 70 million copies, a game that iwas often sub-30 fps on consoles.

I'll tell you; because the majority of gamers don't give a fuck about 60 fps. Even Ratchet PS4 had the best opening week sales in franchise history with a 30fps game. Otherwise the WiiU would have been the number 1 selling console, and most PS/XB owners would opt for building gaming PCs. Your logic is absurd and laughable.

 

[Fisty]

This is great news, the only nitpick I had with the game was the jaggies when I tried the demo, so this pretty much guarantees a sale from me. Good show, Insomniac

 

[Coffee Dog]

how long must we endure this "no 60fps??!?" nonsense in Pro threads?

Tell Sony to not put it on the box of the Pro then, lol. People are gonna expect it.

 

[rothbart]

I don't get why Insomniac hates 60fps.

They've actually gone on the record explaining exactly why... so... it shouldn't really be a mystery.

 

[Lord Error]

Looking at those 4K screens, the game is going to look absurdly good downsampled to 1080p. Actually I wonder if it's going to be almost a waste of power to do that for this game considering how good its IQ already is.

 

[DBT85]

I don't get why Insomniac hates 60fps.

Because they've looked at sales data and reviews and everything else and realised that the average player prefers pretty over framerate.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Explain how GTAV sold 70 million copies, a game that iwas often sub-30 fps on consoles.

I'll tell you; because the majority of gamers don't give a fuck about 60 fps. Even Ratchet PS4 had the best opening week sales in franchise history with a 30fps game.

Hm? Don't recall saying a vast majority care about 60fps. Only that there are plenty of people who do, and devs who like money should provide an option for them as Nixxes and Team Ninja are doing.

Your logic is absurd and laughable.

Glass houses, friend. Your reading comp could use some serious work.

 

[CyberPunked]

Not 4K? Disappointing.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Hm? Don't recall saying a vast majority care about 60fps. Only that there are many people who do, and devs who like money should provide an option for them as Nixxes and Team Ninja are doing.

Beyond a miniscule vocal minority, there is no evidence that framerate options on consoles increase sales in a way that matters fuck all to a studio's bottom line. Sorry, but you're talking out of your ass here.

 

[breakfuss]

Hm? Don't recall saying a vast majority care about 60fps. Only that there are plenty of people who do, and devs who like money should provide an option for them as Nixxes and Team Ninja are doing.



Glass houses, friend. Your reading comp could use some serious work.

I think you could even argue a lot of people do care about fps, they just don't know it. COD, Overwatch, Mario titles...there's a reason these games continue to reign supreme.

 

[onQ123]

Not 4K? Disappointing.

It is 4K just not brute force 4K

 

[Inuhanyou]

Not 4K? Disappointing.

You expected it to run in native 4K with basically every other game using other techniques.

Let me say the concern is really disingenuous in this thread.

 

[5taquitos]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

I think you could even argue a lot of people do care about fps, they just don't know it. COD, Overwatch, Mario titles...there's a reason these games continue to reign supreme.

Exactly. Same goes for games like Tony Hawk, Madden, MGS2, and Ratchet on PS2.

Now that the word "framerate" is a marketing buzzword sold on the back of PS4Pro's box, people can better articulate it. Same way your average gamer didn't know what "graphics" meant until marketing started using it.

 

[joms5]

After launch, most games are expected to have the Pro support patch on disk.

Also...in regards to your servers question, when that day comes, it will either be when PS4 and Pro are made irrelevant, or Sony goes under. Their servers for these PSN ecosystems are all connected at this point, they can't just 'shut them off'.

Well the first part is good news.

I guess what I mean about shutting the servers down is not literally shutting them down, but let's say when PS4 is no longer supported. I can't imagine that they would leave those patches up in perpetuity.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

It is 4K just not brute force 4K

No. No it's not.

 

[dogen]

No. No it's not.

He has a point though. Is "true" 4k worth 2x the power to render? Maybe in some cases, but I doubt it looks anywhere near 2x as good. I think most of the time games are better off using those flops to improve other things.

 

[gablekevin]

Im all about 60fps gaming but if the only thing keeping you from playing a game especially Ratchet and Clank is that its not 60fps than you are actually insane.The game runs and plays amazingly on Ps4.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

No, he doesn't have a point.

If something isn't natively rendered at a resolution, its not actually that resolution. OnQ keeps pushing 2160pr as legit 4K. It's not.

Now, we can talk about the smart way to use the PS4 Pro's power or how the difference isn't that noticeable compared to native 4K, but if its not, its not. And its especially egregious to claim 2160pr as legit after how much noise this forum has made about the tricks a certain other console had to use to reach 1080p in some cases.

Either you hit the mark or you don't.

 

[dogen]

No, he doesn't have a point.

If something isn't natively rendered at a resolution, its not actually that resolution. OnQ keeps pushing 2160pr as legit 4K. It's not.

Now, we can talk about the smart way to use the PS4 Pro's power or how the difference isn't that noticeable compared to native 4K, but if its not, its not. And its especially egregious to claim 2160pr as legit after how much noise this forum has made about the tricks a certain other console had to use to reach 1080p in some cases.

Either you hit the mark or you don't.

I said he has a point by calling it brute force. I didn't say he was right about anything.

Im all about 60fps gaming but if the only thing keeping you from playing a game especially Ratchet and Clank is that its not 60fps than you are actually insane.

There must be some possibility you are missing.

 

[onQ123]

No. No it's not.

Yes it is the games final frame buffer is 4K, it's 4K maybe that's hard for some people to understand but the game is 4K if you pixel count it will be 8294400 unique pixels in the frame.

It's not the same as brute force native 4K but the resolution is 4K.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Well the first part is good news.

I guess what I mean about shutting the servers down is not literally shutting them down, but let's say when PS4 is no longer supported. I can't imagine that they would leave those patches up in perpetuity.

If PS5 has full BC and needs to be compatible with the software of PS4/Pro, sure, why not? MS says 360 will stay up indefinitely because they attached their 360 service to the XB1(and by definition scorpio). can see the same thing happening with PS5

 

[jack....]

Ugh.. not 8k downsampled 120fps? No thanks.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Awesome update, but hard to go back to games once you Plat them...I think I'll just wait for the next Ratchet and Clank...

Even if all hands are on deck for Spiderman, I think we'll get another one in this generation, especially with Pro (hopefully) extending it.

oh wow....now for the next 3 years it's going to be a reversal of 1080p vs. 900p lol