Yeah, neither is given and that's why I put the question mark at the end.
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NeoGAF Post by Ori Dev: Scorpio is a "full blown next generation Console
- Thread starter viHuGi
- Start date
Yeah, neither is given and that's why I put the question mark at the end.
Maintenance
Member
So cute.
hanspampel
Banned
Wow your attitude in this topic is really special.
Seems like you're a nice guy people enjoy have a argument with /s
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
But they would be in the very small minority is all I'm saying. No one should act like the the general gaming public or casuals care UHD and there are many reasons why.
My personal opinion is Sony wanted to keep the price low on the Pro and not cannibalize it's UHD standalone sales.
If you post silly nonsense don't be mad when you get called out
Same goes for you too statham jr
😉
randomengine
Banned
Just as I predicted. The next slate of exclusive games will be launch titles for the system
Sea of thieves
Crackdown 3
Scalebound was taking too long and didn't match the strategy
Sea of thieves
Crackdown 3
Scalebound was taking too long and didn't match the strategy
EventHorizon
Member
Your failure to answer my question speaks volumes.
All you have done is create a strawman so you can knock it down. The PS4 Pro is an excellent product that beats its competition. Just because it doesn't do what you want is meaningless. It is simply the best console available at $399. It's better than the $399 2TB Xbox One S, and it was able to come to the market a full year ahead of Scorpio which btw we have no idea how much will cost.
How in the world do you come up with $100 max? Don't try to do that slight of hand where you substitute a user built PC with a semi legit copy of Windows. The PS4 is a turnkey system. Find me a prebuilt PC for $399 in a similar form factor as a PS4, and then you can talk.
LordOfChaos
Member
If the other leak about interpolation makes it mostly clear it's still on Jaguar/Puma cores, I'm in the uncomfortable position of disagreeing with a devs position. More RAM, more GPU, more bandwidth, yes, but the same processors would fundamentally peg it to the same generation as the PS4 Pro. And the percentage GPU differences are similar to the PS4 vs XBO.
crimzonflame
Member
Was the title changed?
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Lol, maybe instead of getting all worked up we should wait for actual information directly from MS..
SEGAvangelist
Member
Moon Studios is independent and while Ori is an exclusive, I see no reason why Moon Studios wouldn't develop on competing platforms at some point. I seriously doubt MS is behind Thomas Mahler's comments and using him as a PR mouthpiece.
Respectfully disagree. MS is at a crossroads right now. After promising at E3 2016 that no XBox owner will be left behind, if they have Scorpio exclusives out the gate, they might as well pack it in. Most gamers have trust issues with MS to start with and this would alienate all but the biggest fanboys.
Also Scalebound was axed more than likely due to $$$, delays and it no longer fit MS current "games-as-service" model
Gemüsepizza
Member
It's pretty obvious that Scopio will just be a more powerful PS4 Pro. But they have to make it sound like it is more than that because Sony caught them off guard and they are one year late to the party. "Generations" aren't going anywhere.
Nope, makes no sense.
1.) Too few people will have a Scorpio.
2.) Xbox One owners will be pissed.
3.) Sony will likely release a PS5 in 2019. The PS5 will mop the floor with Scorpio.
If Microsoft really does abandon the generation model (they won't), and release a Scorpio 2 after 3 years which is forward compatible with Scorpio 1, Scorpio 2 games will be at a serious disadvantage because they need to run on Scorpio 1.
And why would Microsoft do that? To make a few bucks extra of Scorpio 1 owners? There won't be nearly enough to make this tradeoff worthwhile. And did you guys see how quick devs did abandon last gen with cross gen titles? I'm sure they would love having to continue making games for last gen. /s
Nope, makes no sense.
1.) Too few people will have a Scorpio.
2.) Xbox One owners will be pissed.
3.) Sony will likely release a PS5 in 2019. The PS5 will mop the floor with Scorpio.
If Microsoft really does abandon the generation model (they won't), and release a Scorpio 2 after 3 years which is forward compatible with Scorpio 1, Scorpio 2 games will be at a serious disadvantage because they need to run on Scorpio 1.
And why would Microsoft do that? To make a few bucks extra of Scorpio 1 owners? There won't be nearly enough to make this tradeoff worthwhile. And did you guys see how quick devs did abandon last gen with cross gen titles? I'm sure they would love having to continue making games for last gen. /s
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think the poster means Xbox exclusive and not Scorpio exclusives, meaning those games will come out around Scorpio launch.
Edit: Misread, irrelevant
To be clear, I meant that I don't believe, at all, that Scorpio is really a full blown next generation console.
Digital Foundry is keeping expectations more in check -- They're saying it should be significantly better at handling native 4K resolutions, but also use the efficent rendering techniques being employed on PS4 Pro, in addition to other techniques. But no where is DF suggesting that Scorpio is a full blown next gen console.
Why believe anything beyond that?
That's all I'm saying.
Digital Foundry is keeping expectations more in check -- They're saying it should be significantly better at handling native 4K resolutions, but also use the efficent rendering techniques being employed on PS4 Pro, in addition to other techniques. But no where is DF suggesting that Scorpio is a full blown next gen console.
Why believe anything beyond that?
That's all I'm saying.
Ah. That makes more sense
SEGAvangelist
Member
This thread was created because a developer making a game that runs on the actual Scorpio hardware said it is a "full blow next generation" console. That's why you'd say something beyond what DF is reporting from their July 2016 knowledge.
staticneuron
Member
No one is talking about backwards compatibility but in fact the other way around. If a console can play the games coming out on the "next console" that means the generation hasn't advanced.
That means either the games or the consoles are held back due to a design decision. Seeing you had to go back to the mega drive and nearly 30 years to prove a skewed point should have raised flags for most people but it didn't.
In PC terms could you imagine how games would look like an perform if they had to work on a Riva TNT2 and just the extra horsepower used for pretty things? Granted it is not that extreme but the thinking behind it is just as silly. You are basically putting forth that game design should be hobbled for some arbitrary reason. Why shouldn't the next console have a more powerful CPU and games made exclusively to cater to that? That is what people consider next generation. Not BC, not cross generation port, but the fact that you cannot take an Xbox one game put it in a 360 and have it work. Or a PS4 game and put it into PS3. Why? Because the newer consoles have newer hardware and the games take advantage of that new power without worrying about lowest common denominator. AS long as the PS4pro and the Scorpio does not have exclusive titles that can not run on the weaker hardware then they aren't a new generation they are.... a mid generation refresh.
This thread has been fascinating seeing the hoops people jump to, to forget how each generation differed from each other.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
I don't think anyone said that did they ?
Posters are questioning Thomas character/ credibility as they should. he dropped a post muddying the waters and still hasn't responded/clarified anything about his post.
It's almost as gross as Penello dropping "so exited" into a thread yesterday and just bouncing.
What the BEST console for someone is completely depends on what you want to play and what console your friends have (bc online play), if we want to be very, very exact here. Making some arbitrary A or B questions like you did does not sell consoles anymore. This ain't 1991 and the bit wars anymore. The general public buys their consoles based on libraries and will probably NOT buy the Pro because that is "enthusiast hardware". Also, most of the X1's sold are cheaper than those 400 bucks and I'm pretty fucking sure the general public also buys the PS4 slim for less. The more informed hardcore gamer probably doesn't decide solely on those factors that you asked me on.
The Pro came out before Scorpio because it has a rather simple GPU upgrade and a CPU overclock. They did not have to change much. Microsoft on the other hand is ditching its old APU and mainboard design. They are starting from scratch, so obviously they need more time.
Your wording sounds so fanboy-ish at times that I really have to cringe, I am sorry.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Oh damn you really rebutted me! Calling actual people in support of something as anecdotal then comparing it to a topic that covered many different types of posts.
Meanwhile the topic I referenced is majority of people genuinely talking about BC games they own, what ones they are waiting for, and games they are playing. But sure compare that to a thread of people being negative, indifferent, or concern trolling. Amazing!
Thanks again for the wonderful out of touch response
demogorgon
Banned
because if you made an upgraded controller (say the xbox elite) and it had only 1 paddle and no other upgrades it would be a half ass upgraded controller. But with 4 paddles, hair triggers, 2 profiles loaded at a time, full customization of everything it's a full assed upgrade lol
Think of it like cars. if you have a 300HP mustang and they put out an upgraded version with 310 HP that's a half assed upgrade. If they put out an updated version with 500HP thats a full assed upgrade
In other words he didn't feel the upgrade was really enough. which is valid, but it's still just one persons opinion. I'm sure there are opinions both ways where some feel it's a great upgrade and others don't.
For me personally, It wasn't enough of an upgrade for me to justify buying one since I already have a PS4 but if I didn't own a PS4 and wanted to buy one I'd spring the extra 100 bucks for the Pro. But with scorpio despite owning a XB1 I'll be upgrading to it as I feel it's worth it. Really depends on the individual
First I wanted to say you shouldn't say those things but then having Thomas Mahler not addressing a point of contention in this thread and being very selective with what is responded to is rather curious.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Can't disagree with this. I wonder if MS put the muzzle on him after that initial comment. Haha.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm having trouble parsing this post.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think I may have read it wrong too. LOL
EventHorizon
Member
Wow. That's a lot of nuance that was totally devoid from your previous comments. You had no problem criticizing the Pro without all those caveats before. Now all of a sudden things like libraries and the console your friends have matters. Seems to me that you just proved my point for me. Your prior analysis was wrong.
I am comparing the Pro to the $399 2TB Xbox One S because that is the console Microsoft has at the Pro's price range. The fact that you have to start comparing cheaper models to the Pro proves it is Microsoft, not Sony, who has the "half-assed" product that makes no sense at $399.
Once again, the Pro is an excellent product for its price range that wipes the floor with it's competition. Just because you would like another product is meaningless. If the best comeback you have is that the Pro can't play Xbox games, and your friends might be on Xbox anyway, then that hardly says anything about the design of the Pro. That is unless you somehow think Sony could make the Pro do those things.
nillapuddin
Member
My guess is that from now til forever systems will be backwards compatible to infinity, but they will not be forward compatible.
I kinda wish Scorpio did have exclusive games, but I'm willing to roll with it.
I kinda wish Scorpio did have exclusive games, but I'm willing to roll with it.
But the PS4 Pro is out.
And he has expanded on points about generations, but on my simplistic reading it seems like PS4 Pro fits this criteria.
I think he could easily follow up on this conceptual topic without violating any NDA. Of course I may be wrong and the point is about specific bandwidth numbers that have to be reached that aren't public knowledge, but the posts didn't read like that at all.
If the code in games like:
Uncharted 4, Driveclub, SW Battlefront, Rise of the Tomb Rider, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 3, Assassin's Creed Unity, etc, etc,
had to work on PS3 and/or X360 hardware, would those games be as visually impressive as they are now on current consoles?
Because that is what the Scorpio has to work with. There won't be a dumbed down version of games released for base XOne like how for example there were versions of Forza Horizon 2, or the Call of Duties released specifically for previous gen. We are talking the same code here will have to work for both launch XOne and Scorpio. Good luck convincing anyone Scorpio games would actually be a next gen experience when carrying such crippling requirements.
Uncharted 4, Driveclub, SW Battlefront, Rise of the Tomb Rider, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 3, Assassin's Creed Unity, etc, etc,
had to work on PS3 and/or X360 hardware, would those games be as visually impressive as they are now on current consoles?
Because that is what the Scorpio has to work with. There won't be a dumbed down version of games released for base XOne like how for example there were versions of Forza Horizon 2, or the Call of Duties released specifically for previous gen. We are talking the same code here will have to work for both launch XOne and Scorpio. Good luck convincing anyone Scorpio games would actually be a next gen experience when carrying such crippling requirements.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Look, it has to be said: the interest level on an enthusiast forum for a "full blown next generation" console is going to be lower than it would otherwise be and what it was in the past since Microsoft no longer has console exclusives. Probably translates into lower console sales too, because as much as most console gamers may not care...many do, like me.
The first two Xbox consoles were awesome in my opinion, aside from paid online. Now that they have the same experiences as PC only...it's not the same. Saleswise I don't see anything from MS getting to 360 heights again without exclusives and the same kind of competition.
Besides, the seventh gen is looking like it may have been the high water mark for sales, which is pretty scary to think about.
The first two Xbox consoles were awesome in my opinion, aside from paid online. Now that they have the same experiences as PC only...it's not the same. Saleswise I don't see anything from MS getting to 360 heights again without exclusives and the same kind of competition.
Besides, the seventh gen is looking like it may have been the high water mark for sales, which is pretty scary to think about.
Stormforger
Banned
Gemüsepizza;229073259 said:
Why would Scorpio 2 be at a disadvantage to PS5 if it ran Scorpio 1 games or the same game that ran on Scorpio1 runs on Scorpio 2 better?
What don't people get here? The Xbox One is basically a PC running Windows. It will be upgraded just like a PC. A game that runs on the Xbox One will run better on a Scorpio and even better on a Scorpio 2. Just like Diablo 3 runs OK on my laptop with built in graphics, but runs WAY better on my gaming rig. (Use any game you want as an example here, I just picked Diablo 3) The same with ANY OTHER PC game.
How will a PS5 that does not run PS4 games be at an advantage? If anything, I think something like that will be at a dis-advantage.
Stormforger
Banned
Umm... Halo, Halo Wars, Gears of War, Forza Horizon, Sea of Theaves, Crackdown.... What do you mean they don't have any more console exclusives??? Yes, I know these games are coming to Windows also, but they are NOT coming to Sony nor Nintendo systems. They are still console exclusives.
The VAST MAJORITY of gamers cannot afford, nor want to mess with, a gaming PC capable of running these games. A person would need to spend AT LEAST $1000 for a PC capable of playing the games. Spending $299 on an Xbox One, or estimated $399-$499 on a Scorpio is MUCH EASIER for many.
I can easily afford a high end gaming PC, but I just don't want to mess with it. IMHO PC gaming is a pain in the neck and offers no real benefit over console gaming.
How does BF1 run on your laptop?
He's talking about it would be at a disadvantage if Scorpio 2 games ran on Scorpio 1 and not the other way around. A hypothetical ps5 would be able to use its full power while the hypothetical Scorpio 2 could not cause it would need to be able to play on Scorpio 1. The higher the bottom limit the more power you can use. From your example, if your laptop wasn't able to play Diablo 3 then they could do more stuff than they already do on your gaming PC cause they wouldn't need to worry about low specs laptops.
No, they don't.
Don't make statement for PC gaming if you don't mess with PC gaming.
- A fellow console user
Stormforger
Banned
The point is, my laptop CAN RUN Battlefield one. Will it be the best experience? No, far from it, but I can run it. If my laptop was my only option because I could not afford to upgrade to a better PC/Laptop, I would be very thankful to be able to run Battlefield.
That is the point with the consoles being Forward Compatable.
A game will be able to run on the Xbox one. It will run better on the Scorpio. It will run even better on the Scorpio 2.
This is a much better situation for ALL gamers. You upgrade when you want and aren't locked out. (With reasonable time limits. At some point, if you don't upgrade, you will be locked out, but I am guessing it will take 3 to 4 "upgrades"....)
Stormforger
Banned
Sorry. I should have said that they would need to spend $1000 on a PC capable of playing those games at a quality level even close to what the Xbox One or PS4 can deliver.
Nope...haha. You can pull it off for half of that...at least.
<^----PC/PS4/WiiU/X1/Vita/etc...gamer here.
Edit**
I aimed for an entire system, INCLUDING WINDOWS 10, here you go
AMD A10 7700k
Motherboard
500GB HDD
GTX 1050Ti
16GB Ram
Case
Powersupply (550w)
Windows 10
$497 Shipped (You could probably dig harder and go cheaper)
EventHorizon
Member
You are not accounting for the fact that PC gamers pay extra for the forward compatibility. PCs have more overhead because they need a bigger abstraction layer between their games and the hardware in order to support any combination of that hardware. Consoles can run games better than PCs on equivalent spec'd hardware because they don't need that abstraction and devs can code more to the metal. So you can't point to the PCs ability to support more hardware as a plus without also mentioning the downsides that come with that.
Btw, you've got the comparison backwards. It's not that a PS5 could run PS4 games, or Scorpio could run Xbox One S games. It's that a PS4 and XB1 S would continue to be able to run new games that came out for the PS5 and Scorpio. For that to be true, the new games would have to limit their design so that they didn't do something that the less powerful consoles couldn't natively handle.
You are probably only thinking about gracefully degrading graphics so that a game could run on lesser hardware. What you are not considering are other gameplay features like AI that can't be degraded and still have the same game. The AI on a PS5 game that could take full advantage of its greater CPU without having to concern itself with the PS4 would be much better than a Scorpio 2 game that has to limit its AI to something Scorpio 1 could handle.
I reiterate my previous advice.
Stormforger
Banned
Oh my gosh. Rolls Eyes. I have an Alienware 13 with a 960 card. I have played Gears 4 and Forza Horizon 3 on it. (Cross Buy). I play Starcraft on it all the time. I have played WOW in the past.
I PREFER to play on consoles. Xbox One and PS4. 99% of my gaming is on consoles.... By choice.
wapplew
Member
You are describing console being backward compatible.
Console being forward compatible mean your old hardware can play all the game on newer hardware.
Just to chime in, Forward-compatibility will be so confusing if it worked only for a certain amount of generations i.e. PS5 will be forward-compatible for the next 2 systems, etc. Then you run the risk of not everything on PS7 or 8 needs that much power to run them.
Will be very confusing. I doubt forward-compatibility with be a thing. They're just trying to ease out consumers into a new Xbox without saying it's a new generation.
If it were a new generation, why don't they just say it is? Just say it's the next Xbox system, period.
Stormforger
Banned
No, I think I gave a pretty good description of Forward Compatibility.
Stormforger
Banned
I agree. It will be interesting to see how they handle it.
Again, the PC world does this. You just print the specs on the box. At some point in the future (Like when the Scorpio 4 comes out) the box may say: A Scorpio 1 or greater is required to run this game.