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[wapplew]

You're kidding, right? The PlayStation 2 played PlayStation 1 games and that was very much appreciated. I'd hate to buy a Scorpio or a PS5 only to lose access to all my games once again. That's just a stupid thing for consumers and it's a stupid thing for developers, since now the games are just taken off the market and some of you are then happy to buy a 'remaster' (which more often than not is the same exact game only with the native resolution cranked up) again - How is this better than new consoles not making this crappy cut, especially since they're all - similar to the PC - using the same architecture now anyway?

I understand your folks point about new gen begins with a new baseline, but why do we have to think that way at this point in the game? Nobody on the PC side would be okay with Nvidia shipping out a new GPU that'll ensure that your entire STEAM library is unplayable now - And if they would, people would riot and not buy the thing.

Are there any next-gen games out there that purely in terms of gameplay couldn't have been done on a last-gen console? I have a hard time coming up with any. Devs will just have to treat consoles like PCs, having multiple hardware configurations that they'll adjust their games to. Having to make this distinction between 'cross-gen games' or 'well, those were DIFFERENT games cause they were shipped for different boxes is just really bogus. Wouldn't you have preferred to buy Titanfall ONCE and then being able to play it on your 360, PC, Xbox One - Instead of having to buy a separate version? That's EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing here. You buy a game for the Xbox Platform, which means you'll be able to play it on any of the Microsoft platforms.

And I'm sure at some point - simply due to the nature of technology - older hardware won't be able to run the newest games. But that doesn't have to happen now. Current gen boxes still have plenty of power and if for the next few years I'm able to play games in HD/30 on current gen and 4k/60 on next-gen, I'm fine with that.

Everyone know the benifit of OS base approach, we have plenty of those, it's very lucrative for platform holder to go this route.
But typical generation approach is some kind of blessing too. There are very very few industry do generation reset. I think this allow/catalyst new invention.
When dual analog stick become standard, 3D camera control become standard. That's a benifit of clean break, it help the adoption of new tech.
That why I fear console taking PC/mobile OS base approach, once they do it, there's no going back. Platform holder will do anything to maintain status quo.

 

[Nutter]

In this thread.

Oh noes a MS Dev made fun of the competition. Will someone please think of the fans.

 

[QaaQer]

And you think growing digital libraries don't change the attitude for many people?
But ok Sony, don't care about bc with PS5, let people rebuy remasters or ports of old games, worked also this gen.

Cost-benefit. Doing full compatibility costs money and talent, the question is whether that is better deployed elsewhere. MS is in a slightly different boat as they already spend billions on Windows OS development which they might leverage for their consoles. So it might be cost effective for them and not Sony. If console buyers now demand compatibility and it isn't cost effective for Sony to deliver that....

 

[jmizzal]

All Wii games can be played on the Wii U, is it not a next gen console compared to the Wii? Incoming, b-but power.

Is scorpio gonna have exclusive games?

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

You think 50% of Xbox One users using it is terrible?

I wouldn't call that terrible...that's 13+- million people isn't it?

You really believe 50% of the base are using backwards compatibility regularly ?

 

[Dizzy]

The PS4 Pro was announced not too long before release and the message was clear - it was an enhanced PS4. Nothing more.


Scorpio announced around a year and a half before release and the whole messaging seems unclear. Half hinted to be a next gen console, half hinted to be an enhanced xbox one.

I'm getting bad vibes. It's as if Microsoft itself doesn't know what they want it to be, that or they're leaving some wiggle room in case it bombs.

 

[Hanmik]

You're still not addressing why the PS4pro is half assed and not a new generation as opposed to Scorpio when the concept is exactly the one you are presenting.

and he probably never will.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

MS put out some type of number or percent of people who used backwards compatibility and guess what ? Is was fucking terrible. I guess time didn't change anything because the general public still didn't give a shit.

Ya I guess that's why Major has "casuals" constantly begging him for backwards compat COD BLOPS2 on twitter every minute. Guess what? People like playing games they own...shocking concept I know. But hey, you said they don't care, so I guess they don't. The 300 page thread on BC on this very forum means nothing either.

Nothing to see here! Thanks for the great insight

 

[Jobbs]

Gaf -> Internet-> gaf

ultimate case of it

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Do you think PS4 Slim will play PS5 games? That's where things will be differentiated imo, I don't think Sony will do that. Indies and smaller games can still be released on PS4 and still be sold to PS4 and PS5 customers, but PS5 will have plenty of exclusives. Will Scorpio?

I think technically it's absolutely possible. And why not offering games on a disc which includes the PS4 AND PS5 edition of a game, if the whole difference are maybe resolution, shadows and stuff like this. Not every PS5 game will be the next Horizon.

But if Sony doesn't want to confuse customers it's probably for the better to offer two different sets of discs, each for one generation.

 

[benny_a]

You're still not addressing why the PS4pro is half assed and not a new generation as opposed to Scorpio when the concept is exactly the one you are presenting.

Yeah, strange.

 

[Joe White]

You're still not addressing why the PS4pro is half assed and not a new generation as opposed to Scorpio when the concept is exactly the one you are presenting.

Scorpio will provide gaming experiences that aren't available for X1, like VR, and it might not require specific patches for existing games to benefit for it's raw extra power?

 

[shandy706]

You really believe 50% of the base are using backwards compatibility regularly ?

How would I know? How would you know?

That's what MS said in December 2016


Edit* The only thing I personally know, is that every single person I know that has an Xbox One does use BC.

Also, the Xbox One gets "free" Xbox 360 games every month that you can download on Gold. Why wouldn't everyone with Gold (and many non gold) use it some?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This is why companies have PR departments, so people don't go nuts over hot takes.

 

[Rain City Gamer]

But all Xbox One games can be played on Scorpio, so no.

All PS2 games could be played on PS3 fat too. Didn't stop them from having PS3 only games.

 

[QaaQer]

Ya I guess that's why Major has "casuals" constantly begging him for backwards compat COD BLOPS2 on twitter every minute. Guess what? People like playing games they own...shocking concept I know. But hey, you said they don't care, so I guess they don't. The 300 page thread on BC on this very forum means nothing either.

Nothing to see here! Thanks for the great insight

I guess people just wonder why if it is important, companies like Nintendo and Sony stopped doing it.

 

[Syrus]

I assume he means the power gap not so much exclusive titles

 

[wbEMX]

Answer the question I posed. Which console do you think the general public finds more compelling?

Choice #1: $399 1TB PlayStation Pro
Choice #2: $399 2TB Xbox One S​

I'd rather know why you are suddenly dodging my answer after I made my point a bit clearer and corrected my wording. The question is completely irrelevant because there are so much more factors that a lot of consumers use to decide what they buy.

To quote Fisty, who has replied to me:

It's a close approximation of 4K for TV owners that want a little better IQ on their 4K panels.

And that's where the concept fails for me. Promoting your $400 console as the "Pro 4K" alternative while only delivering a little better IQ, no true 4K, skipping 4K Blu-rays AND sometimes providing worse experiences for 1080p users if they choose to downscale is not being "Pro". That is what I call what-assed. How the Pro concept would've worked? As I pointed out, making 60fps for most or all games a thing and maybe boost some 900p games up to 1080p. Making it the ultimate 1080p machine.

And that's by the way what Scorpio should have done.

 

[Sidewinder]

You're still not addressing why the PS4pro is half assed and not a new generation as opposed to Scorpio when the concept is exactly the one you are presenting.

Yeah.

 

[Head.spawn]

PCs pay a penalty for supporting multiple hardware configurations with increased overhead. Consoles get more bang for the buck on equivalent hardware because they don't have to deal with that overhead. That is what allows consoles to be cheaper than equivalent PCs. PCs have greater forward and backward compatibility than consoles, but PC owners pay extra money for that capability. It's a tradeoff that you are not acknowledging exists.

I think you might be overselling the negative here and even then it's ususally in a range of $100 max to deflate that and have a much better experience; which when you factor in things like paid online, higher game prices, extremely limited library and even what we have now where a big hardware upgrade is only applicable to a handful of games etc etc... yeah, you're definitely overselling the negative aspect in comparison of a few extra dollars. Possibly underselling the benefits of said platform too.

Scorpio will provide gaming experiences that aren't available for X1, like VR, and it might not require specific patches for existing games to benefit for it's raw extra power?

Yep. They have already stated that Gears of War 4 won't require a patch to be Scorpio compatible and take full advantage of the hardware.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Scorpio will provide gaming experiences that aren't available for X1, like VR, and it might not require specific patches for existing games to benefit for it's raw extra power?

hmmm? That doesn't make any sense, having VR on base PS4 is a good thing though. Its just better on Pro, but base is more than capable, especially for less graphical intense games.

 

[c0de]

I guess people just wonder why if it is important, companies like Nintendo and Sony stopped doing it.

Because Sony makes a shit ton of money by reselling games like Uncharted and TLOU?

 

[EventHorizon]

You're comparing a post-upgrade line of consoles/devices to a line of consoles that has only seen a slim revision. Let's wait and see how MS pricing is realigned when Scorpio hits.

Also, your question is not ultimately relevant to the point of this thread.

We compare the market as it exists. Nothing prevented Microsoft from releasing a console last holiday season. A year's head start is part of the advantage of the Pro. With your logic we could never evaluate the merits of a console release. At the end of this year I could turn around and say..."You can't compare the Scorpio to the Pro. You have to wait until the PS5 comes out because the earlier release of the Pro allow Sony to release it's true next gen console sooner."

My question is specifically relevant to the comment in this thread I posed it to.

 

[QaaQer]

I'd rather know why you are suddenly dodging my answer after I made my point a bit clearer and corrected my wording. The question is completely irrelevant because there are so much more factors that a lot of consumers use to decide what they buy.

To quote Fisty, who has replied to me:



And that's where the concept fails for me. Promoting your $400 console as the "Pro 4K" alternative while only delivering a little better IQ, no true 4K, skipping 4K Blu-rays AND sometimes providing worse experiences for 1080p users if they choose to downscale is not being "Pro". That is what I call what-assed. How the Pro concept would've worked? As I pointed out, making 60fps for most or all games a thing and maybe boost some 900p games up to 1080p. Making it the ultimate 1080p machine.

It's not called 'pro 4K' though.

 

[AndyD]

Don't know what to believe now. This kind of reads like an attempt to stem the bleeding from the Digital Foundry article.

Almost sounds that way. But realistically it won't be hard to figure out because they will have to release specs and we can get a good idea if it's incremental or really a massive step up. If the DF specs hold, it's incremental.

 

[MrJoobJoob]

It might be worth it from MSoft's point of view to market the Scorpio as a whole new console, even if it's a relatively minor hardware upgrade & will be backwards compatible. Objectively speaking the last few years they've lost a lot of ground to Sony so it might be worth punting, and just trying to get a head start on the next generation of consoles.

 

[Nategc20]

But all Xbox One games can be played on Scorpio, so no.

Backwards compatibility is a thing.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Hot take from this thread - dont call the PS4 Pro half assed.

 

[SystemUser]

GBA has exclusive games.

As of now all messaging for Scorpio disallows exclusives.

Yeah, that is the kicker. All "Scorpio games" will work on Xbox One since they are Xbox One games. GameBoy Advance games did not work on original Gameboy. Scorpio is not a new generation, but the reason is not because it still plays Xbox One games, but because it does not have exclusive games.

 

[wbEMX]

It's not called 'pro 4K' though.

I didn't say it was called Pro 4K. They market it as a 4K machine and as the Pro. They don't even fucking imply it.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Ya I guess that's why Major has "casuals" constantly begging him for backwards compat COD BLOPS2 on twitter every minute. Guess what? People like playing games they own...shocking concept I know. But hey, you said they don't care, so I guess they don't. The 300 page thread on BC on this very forum means nothing either.

Nothing to see here! Thanks for the great insight

😂😂😂😂😂😂

What an incredible stupid use of anecdotal evidence.

There also 100+ thread about how Sonys done and PS4 pro is DOA because of no UHD. How has that worked out ?

 

[Pennywise]

I'd rather know why you are suddenly dodging my answer after I made my point a bit clearer and corrected my wording. The question is completely irrelevant because there are so much more factors that a lot of consumers use to decide what they buy.

To quote Fisty, who has replied to me:



And that's where the concept fails for me. Promoting your $400 console as the "Pro 4K" alternative while only delivering a little better IQ, no true 4K, skipping 4K Blu-rays AND sometimes providing worse experiences for 1080p users if they choose to downscale is not being "Pro". That is what I call what-assed. How the Pro concept would've worked? As I pointed out, making 60fps for most or all games a thing and maybe boost some 900p games up to 1080p. Making it the ultimate 1080p machine.

And that's by the way what Scorpio should have done.

So forcing the developers to have a specific target and taking their freedom of choice?
You're pretty delusional, if you think that's even remotely gonna happen.

Developers can choose what they're preferences are and if people really want more fps, there is a platform called PC.
Scorpio is no guarantee either, that developers will pick framerate over resolution.

 

[QaaQer]

Because Sony makes a shit ton of money by reselling games like Uncharted and TLOU?

They can still sell remasters on a console with b/c.

 

[schwabdizzle]

I wonder if MS will approach this as the "New Generation of Console" or are they going to sayv"There are no more Generations, just upgrades"

 

[otakukidd]

They can still sell remasters on a console with b/c.

They did last gen... A lot.

 

[wapplew]

I wonder if MS will approach this as the "New Generation of Console" or are they going to sayv"There are no more Generations, just upgrades"

"Not just an upgrade, Its an Xbox that beyond generation with next generation hardware tech"

Basically like a PS4 Pro but sound a lot better.

 

[rrc1594]

I just want KI4 Phil and Lost Odyssey 2

 

[Playsage]

Scorpio will provide gaming experiences that aren't available for X1, like VR, and it might not require specific patches for existing games to benefit for it's raw extra power?

Well, the first might not be a given...
m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1337520&page=1

 

[AmyS]

Full blown next generation console?

Yeah, No.

I'm going to believe what Eurogamer / Digital Foundry is saying about Scorpio 99.9% over a random developer comment posted on a questionable site.

 

[Hesemonni]

That'll teach the dev to post again on NeoGAF!

 

[Omnistalgic]

I'd rather know why you are suddenly dodging my answer after I made my point a bit clearer and corrected my wording. The question is completely irrelevant because there are so much more factors that a lot of consumers use to decide what they buy.

To quote Fisty, who has replied to me:



And that's where the concept fails for me. Promoting your $400 console as the "Pro 4K" alternative while only delivering a little better IQ, no true 4K, skipping 4K Blu-rays AND sometimes providing worse experiences for 1080p users if they choose to downscale is not being "Pro". That is what I call what-assed. How the Pro concept would've worked? As I pointed out, making 60fps for most or all games a thing and maybe boost some 900p games up to 1080p. Making it the ultimate 1080p machine.

And that's by the way what Scorpio should have done.

I think you are an enthusiast and much of those complaints fall on deaf ears to a majority of the gaming public.

- Many people aren't buying Blu-ray, let alone 4K Blu-ray disc, digital downloads/streaming is "good enough" for millions
- How many Pro games are actually running worse man? Is this not simply devs having launch woes? I don't have any game that runs worse on my Pro and have only heard about it on GAF with DF threads
- There are native 4K games on Pro
- Frame-rate has more to do with developer goals and engines and CPU power doesn't it? Zelda and Mario are 60fps. Devs just don't want to do it.

Just disagree with your assessment it's half-assed. I've seen Horizon in 4K, looks amazing, nothing half-assed about it. And that's pseudo 4K and checkerboard rendering and all that other software jargon. It looks good.

 

[rrc1594]

Full blown next generation console?

Yeah, No.

I'm going to believe what Eurogamer / Digital Foundry is saying about Scorpio 99.9% over a random developer comment posted on a questionable site.

LMAO. Why you coming at Gaf like that

 

[schwabdizzle]

Not just an upgrade, Its an Xbox that beyond generation with next generation hardware tech.

No, maybe I wasn't really clear. I wonder if MS will take the PC approach to this and not have "generations" just an Xbox that will play all games

 

[Head.spawn]

������������

What an incredible stupid use of anecdotal evidence.

There also 100+ thread about how Sonys done and PS4 pro is DOA because of no UHD. How has that worked out ?

How has it worked out? I haven't looked at the latest PS4 Pro numbers, but I do know we still have people that want an UHD player in their PS4 Pro... even after the 100+ page thread. lol

You toss this out there as if everyone in that thread is in agreement that it should be the case when a ton of it is people posting in that thread were making excuses for it not being there. In comparison to his anecdotal, the threads he mentioned are universally in favor of the topic.

Weird comparison to toss out.

 

[Theorry]

Full blown next generation console?

Yeah, No.

I'm going to believe what Eurogamer / Digital Foundry is saying about Scorpio 99.9% over a random developer comment posted on a questionable site.

I am confused.

 

[wapplew]

No, maybe I wasn't really clear. I wonder if MS will take the PC approach to this and not have "generations" just an Xbox that will play all games

I don't think they will commit to any approach yet because no one know how the market will react to such approach but they will have their infrastructure ready if that take off.

 

[TheOMan]

Hot take from this thread - dont call the PS4 Pro half assed.

Not even sure why he decided to throw shade at the Pro when it wasn't marketed as a next gen upgrade. Very strange.

 

[Pennywise]

How has it worked out? Well, we still have people that want an UHD player in their PS4 Pro...

You toss this out there as if everyone in that thread is in agreement that it should be the case when a ton of it is people making excuses for it not being there. In comparison to his anecdotal, the threads he mentioned are universally in favor of the topic.

Weird comparison to toss out.

We haven't seen public uproar about the missing UHD player, neither did we with the lack of BC.
We had alot of press coverage, including mainstream press, reporting the always online disaster.

So his initial comparsion and anecdotal evidence are pretty shitty.

 

[Elandyll]

Backwards compatibility is a thing.

You know very well he meant it the other way around, that the XB1, as of now, is planned to still have access to all games released as there is, again as of now, no planned exclusives for Scorpio outside of VR.

So it's not about XB1 games being on Scorpio, which is indeed BC, but Scorpio games being on XB1, obviously.
Hence not a new gen, as already abundantly discussed here and in other threads.

 

[notaskwid]

Hot take from this thread - dont call the PS4 Pro half assed.

You can keep the snark.
The guy is a Microsoft contracted employee and is pruposely muddling the water while holding more information than he can reveal, claiming such things as "pro consumer".
He deserves to be called out.