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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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D

Dahbomb

Member
You can still use Pirate package, run Korkron Elite, Malkorok (no more Cursed Blade), Blood to Ichor and Battle Rage/Slam for draw.

Have to run Unstable Ghoul of course too. There's also that new 5 mana card that creates copies of damaged minions, might be pretty good in a tempo/midrange style Warrior deck.

You can also instead try to pack in more taunts and just go for quest Warrior. You still have reliable 4 drop Tazdingo taunt, Second Rate Bruiser etc.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
It seems really hard to rate cards for this expansion for some reason. Just gave a whole bunch of 3s, lol.

Definitely don't see too many obvious 5s like Patches. I do think Hunter is looking to be pretty disgusting though.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
People are going to realize how silly Alley Cat/Rat Pack are when the Hunter is going to curve Alley Cat into that Beast that Adapts a Beast then Rat Pack into either another adapt or Houndmaster on it.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
I mean, I'm playing a Hunter deck right now for the 50 cards quest and even just throwing a bunch of random crap into my deck I've managed to make a few people concede on the first few turns with buffing shenanigans. Hunter is going to be insane.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Surprised how many people highly rated Dinomancy. You're paying 4 mana for +2/+2 and only on beasts.
It's shadowform for hunter but Steady Shot being way better than Priest's heal making it even worse. It's not even viable as a meme deck like shadowform can be.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Dahbomb said:
People are going to realize how silly Alley Cat/Rat Pack are when the Hunter is going to curve Alley Cat into that Beast that Adapts a Beast then Rat Pack into either another adapt or Houndmaster on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it having a lacking presence in Mean Streets definitely doesn't mean it didn't get good stuff. The sheer amount of shit Rat Pack floods on the board is really good with that adapt 2 drop, increasing attack ends up as a board flood and the shitty 1/1 tokens can punch up with poison.

New webspinner is just lol too.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Surprised how many people highly rated Dinomancy. You're paying 4 mana for +2/+2 and only on beasts.
It's shadowform for hunter but Steady Shot being way better than Priest's heal making it even worse. It's not even viable as a meme deck like shadowform can be.
Click to expand...

I think that game on the stream is influencing people on Dinomancy too much
 
F

fertygo

Member
Dahbomb said:
People are going to realize how silly Alley Cat/Rat Pack are when the Hunter is going to curve Alley Cat into that Beast that Adapts a Beast then Rat Pack into either another adapt or Houndmaster on it.
Click to expand...

The adapt 2 drop is the first thing that I notice dood.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Dahbomb said:
The variance is to be expected, this happens on all polls. What matters is the average at the end. In that regard GAF has been the most accurate out of all the public polls made in MSG.

And as always there are likely to be like 3-4 cards that the community gets wrong which is reasonable out of the 130+ cards. In MSG it was Finja, Hobart and Pint Sized Potion.
Click to expand...

Did Gaf under or over rate Pint Sized Potion?

Also, looking at the current results, it looks like I'm the only one who think Dinosize will be a big thing for Paladin decks.
 
F

fertygo

Member
can you guys link to this voting card thingie?

btw the thing about Dinomancy, Hunter now had access to fill their hand with these new cards, I think its not gonna be meta but good enough for slower hunter deck that doing different thing and not that embarassingly bad like card like infest
 
B

bjaelke

Member
Something about playing arena on a Sunday. A lot of casuals judging by my average compared to Mon-Friday.

Next weekend is going to be a massacre.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
I'm about to spend 375 on amazon coins to get 500 dollars worth. What are the chances that Hearthstone stops being on Amazon marketplace before the end of the year and my coins will be worthless?

Also, did they already distribute the packs for the Bahamas voting?
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Jadax said:
Why would HS stop being on Amazon?
Click to expand...

Dunno, just worried about making an investment. 500 bucks should last me 3 expansions on me and my girlfriends accounts. If games are taking themselves off the amazon storefront or anything like that, I'd like to know.

Also, I should be able to buy packs for two hearthstone accounts with coins from the same Amazon account, right? Might have to test this out first.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
V-Faction said:
Do folks tend to associate the Reward with the Quest when evaluating, or only on how easy it is to activate the requirements?
Click to expand...
First evaluate the reward then how easy it is to activate and the required deckbuilding concessions.
For instance Galvadon is an insane card, easy 5 but the quest makes the whole package a 1.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
V-Faction said:
Do folks tend to associate the Reward with the Quest when evaluating, or only on how easy it is to activate the requirements?
Click to expand...

I think you need to look at both. In many ways the reward is based on the quest text so it's relevant to look at both since it also has a massive impact on how you construct the deck itself.

Like mentioned above the pally minion basically wins the game the next turn. The warrior one means a very defensive deck still actually has a win condition against slower decks, etc.
 
V

veryslowhand

Banned
About future nerfs someone asked, I think is the mage quest reward what is going to get out of hand, if people was sick of freeze mage at one point this is going to be worse.
 
P

Pooya

Member
I really hope the mage quest works out, I miss combo decks. The fact that they printed it at all was surprising even if it's not that competitive in the end.

It's no where as easy as freeze mage though, it's more comparable with the giant mage we had before which was never a great deck. It's slow to get there.
 
C

CelticKnight

Member
Just did my ratings for the Un'goro cards. Probably gave more 3's than I'd have liked but I think Warlock, Warrior and Hunter got the most positive ratings from me.
 
S

SodiumBenzoate

Member
Timedog said:
I'm about to spend 375 on amazon coins to get 500 dollars worth. What are the chances that Hearthstone stops being on Amazon marketplace before the end of the year and my coins will be worthless?

Also, did they already distribute the packs for the Bahamas voting?
Click to expand...

Before you bite the bullet, be aware that Amazon charges sales tax on coin purchases. Meaning with 7% sales tax, 50 packs costs 5349 coins instead of the 4999 you would expect.

25% discount means you still come out ahead, but any of the smaller coin packages are NOT worth it without some extra, limited promotion which they aren't running right now.

If you live in Delaware go for it, though!
 
L

Ladekabel

Member
I think I gave two fives: One to the 1/1 Babbeling Bird because I will hate it and one to Stampede. The latter because I think with the cheap beasts that Hunter got and in combination with the quest it has the potential to get disgusting. Drawing and generating new ressources.
 
G

gutshot

Member
After the first day or so of voting, here are some numbers.

Top 10 Rated Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Jeweled Macaw
  2. Vilespine Slayer
  3. Kalimos, Primal Lord
  4. Arcanologist
  5. Fire Plume's Heart
  6. Crackling Razormaw
  7. Primordial Glyph
  8. Blazecaller
  9. Spiritsinger Umbra
  10. Tol'vir Stoneshaper
Jeweled Macaw at number 1? I mean, it's obviously good but being rated the best card in the set so far is a bit surprising. Fire Plume's Heart is rated the best Quest and I would agree. The one card on this list I could see being a huge miss is Spiritsinger Umbra. It's obviously a powerful effect, but I wonder how consistently you can get it off to make it worth a deck slot.


Bottom 10 Rated Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Explore Un'Goro
  2. Sabretooth Stalker
  3. Frozen Crusher
  4. Stormwatcher
  5. Sated Threshadon
  6. Humongous Razorleaf
  7. Molten Blade
  8. Stegodon
  9. Vinecleaver
  10. Sherazin, Corpse Flower
You can take it to the bank that all of these cards will see little to no play in constructed. It's generally much easier to rate bad cards than good ones and even if you are off by a little the card still likely won't see play. The only one on this list I think has a chance to make an appearance in competitive decks is Molten Blade. But probably not.


Top 10 Most Controversial Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Emerald Reaver
  2. Bittertide Hydra
  3. Primordial Drake
  4. Hallucination
  5. Lakkari Sacrifice
  6. Bright-Eyed Scout
  7. Biteweed
  8. Envenom Weapon
  9. Stampede
  10. Fire Plume Harbinger
These 10 cards have the highest variance, meaning the community is very split on how good or bad they can be. Bittertide Hydra is an expected inclusion, given the debate already here in the thread. Primordial Drake has had a huge range of votes. I would think an AOE plus Taunt would have made it no worse than a 3 but it's garnered a lot of 2s and even 1s. Envenom Weapon is another one where people are very split on whether it is super good or super bad. Keep an eye on this list after the set releases, most likely a couple of these cards will be sleepers. Finja and Dirty Rat were two from MSoG that landed on this list and went on to be very good cards.

Overall, my first impression of this set was it contained less OP cards and the votes support that. Literally none of the cards have garnered a median vote of 5 (meaning that most people voted a 5 for it). MSoG had 8 cards that scored a median of 5. In addition, the highest rated card of Un'Goro has only an average score of 4.17. That would only be good enough to land it at the 19th best card of MSoG.

On the flip side, there appears to be less absolute trash cards with only three Un'Goro cards getting a median score of 1, compared to seven from MSoG. So it seems that the power level of this set has been distributed more evenly, as opposed to having very clear tiers of cards.
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
Thanks Gutshot for all the effort!

I can see Jeweled Macaw being #1. It's the only card in the set I can see being a staple in any hunter meta deck for the coming 2 years.
 
P

Peléo

Member
gutshot said:
After the first day or so of voting, here are some numbers.

Top 10 Rated Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Jeweled Macaw
  2. Vilespine Slayer
  3. Kalimos, Primal Lord
  4. Arcanologist
  5. Fire Plume's Heart
  6. Crackling Razormaw
  7. Primordial Glyph
  8. Blazecaller
  9. Spiritsinger Umbra
  10. Tol'vir Stoneshaper
Jeweled Macaw at number 1? I mean, it's obviously good but being rated the best card in the set so far is a bit surprising. Fire Plume's Heart is rated the best Quest and I would agree. The one card on this list I could see being a huge miss is Spiritsinger Umbra. It's obviously a powerful effect, but I wonder how consistently you can get it off to make it worth a deck slot.


Bottom 10 Rated Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Explore Un'Goro
  2. Sabretooth Stalker
  3. Frozen Crusher
  4. Stormwatcher
  5. Sated Threshadon
  6. Humongous Razorleaf
  7. Molten Blade
  8. Stegodon
  9. Vinecleaver
  10. Sherazin, Corpse Flower
You can take it to the bank that all of these cards will see little to no play in constructed. It's generally much easier to rate bad cards than good ones and even if you are off by a little the card still likely won't see play. The only one on this list I think has a chance to make an appearance in competitive decks is Molten Blade. But probably not.


Top 10 Most Controversial Cards of Un'Goro

  1. Emerald Reaver
  2. Bittertide Hydra
  3. Primordial Drake
  4. Hallucination
  5. Lakkari Sacrifice
  6. Bright-Eyed Scout
  7. Biteweed
  8. Envenom Weapon
  9. Stampede
  10. Fire Plume Harbinger
Click to expand...

This is really interesring, thank you for the summary and analysis. Did you make a similar post for MSG ? Would love to read that.
 
H

homeworkfilms

Member
I couldn't bring myself to rate anything a 1. I understand it is a well thought out 5 point scale but I felt that everything had a situational use by the text definitions. I think it is a credit to the devs that most every card is interesting, even when slightly under-powered.

My feeling is hunter zerg will be a thing. Pirates and jades will stick around and elemental shamans will be a strong mid range deck. More fringe decks will be some sort of mid-range spell mage and rogue will continue to find a way. As others have said, it seems priests and paladins are in trouble. As for control warrior, I do think that quests helps them a lot, so I feel they might end up making it as a tier 3 or so deck. As in more viable then they are now but not super top tier.
 
G

gutshot

Member
FeD.nL said:
Thanks Gutshot for all the effort!

I can see Jeweled Macaw being #1. It's the only card in the set I can see being a staple in any hunter meta deck for the coming 2 years.
Click to expand...

No problem! I love compiling these kinds of numbers and data.

Yeah, it's a solid card for sure. But it is a bit unexciting, so I was just surprised to see it at the top. And, in fact, a few more votes have come in since my post and Vilespine Slayer has now unseated it as highest rated card in the set.

Peléo;233212112 said:
This is really interesring, thank you for the summary and analysis. Did you make a similar post for MSG ? Would love to read that.
Click to expand...

I did!
 
J

Jadax

Member
Is Barnabus bugged for anyone else on the Rating Sheet? I don't have any option bubbles beneath it.

Nvm we can't rate them. Though I guess I would have liked to seen which quest rewards people thought were good and bad.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Yeah you can't separate the quest reward from the quest requirements. There's a risk vs reward element to every quest. Obviously some quest rewards are better than others but sometimes the quest reward may be worse because the quest itself is easier. No point in evaluating them separately.
 
S

sgjackson

Member
having done ~30 7.1 arena runs i think i'm in the "the meta is bad" pile. before the patch the large majority of my runs were centered in the 5-9 range and i'd occasionally rip off a 12 and very rarely went below 5. now my runs are a lot spikier - i have a ton of 11-12 win runs, but the bad decks have a hard time getting a handful of wins. the end result is a similar average (waffling around 6), but i feel worse playing because it's rarer that i feel like i'm evenly matched and my skill brings me a victory. either my deck rolls and i can play an autopilot control game to 12 or i'm never able to grab the board to even have the opportunity to push face to eek out a victory.

i'm finding that the primary difference between bad and good decks tends to be curve - in a world where everybody gets answers, the person who grabs the board and can effectively use their answers to keep it stays ahead. decks where i can consistently go 3/2 for 2->3->4 massively outperform those that stumble to 3. rogue is probably the best class right now is because dagger mitigates this immensely and their floor is significantly higher. they're the only class that can consistently get to 5-6, and it's because their removal suite is comparable to the other good classes but they also have dagger to make a bad curve way less of an issue.

i've seen some prominent arena players propose increasing the offering rate of class cards rather than spells, and that's a change i think is a good idea. the main benefit of 7.1 is that classes feel like they have more defined identities and roles now, and increasing the number of class cards maintains that while helping bad classes (warrior getting a weapon offering rate buff would do worlds to help it) and mitigating the swingy answer problem by giving everyone more good, synergistic minions instead.

i have zero read on how much un'goro is going to change this outside of the power level of the cards seeming really high, but if it exacerbates this problem arena is going to have major issues.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
I am still not sold on the Hunter quest. Sure it's the easiest to activate, even by turn 5 if you wanted, but if you then miss a raptor which would be a 15/38 chance to hit you just kind of run out of steam to any opponent with AOE and healing.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
So Kripp was saying that if you Adapt a minion to 5 or more attack, it'd still count towards the Druid Quest? That's insane if true.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Curious as to why hallucination is split. That card is better than swash and while you might run both I am tempted to run just hallucination.

Also envenom I think is a top card. Fits rogue's curve too well. Maybe even good enough to bring a card as bad as blade flurry back. Think about that for a second.

Fire plume harbinger is at least a 4.

I am surprised to see sherazin on any bottom chart.

Jewelled macaw being overrated. It's a slightly faster webspinner in a set filled with beasts. It'll be random as hell.

edit:
Other overrated, blazecaller, arcanologist, spiritsinger umbra
 
P

Pooya

Member
Envenom doesn't work with flurry, flurry is still bad as ever.

hallucination is the closest thing to 1 mana draw a card they've printed for rogue yet. When you can select it's way better than random burgle effects. Still worse than something like Raven Idol of course, Raven Idol would be broken in rogue.


EuropeOG said:
I am still not sold on the Hunter quest. Sure it's the easiest to activate, even by turn 5 if you wanted, but if you then miss a raptor which would be a 15/38 chance to hit you just kind of run out of steam to any opponent with AOE and healing.
Click to expand...

you pressured the opponent with 1 drops in those turns and now you have a 8/8 on board. That's not trivial to deal with. RNG though, if you top deck your 4/3 raptors right away it's a different story and likely just wins the game.


I don't think you can get there by turn 5 regularly though and if you're there you're not playing animal companion or bow and high pressure cards like those.

So against something like druid it will probably work but I don't know if classes with cheap removals and strong tempo care about those and if you lose board initiate, you're probably dead. Hunter quest seems good overall I don't see what lifecoach is talking about though. Murloc quest is more or less same thing and he doesn't consider that bad for the game in a much stronger class to boot. I think quest free hunters will be stronger, we'll see.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Watching the final reveal stream now and noticed that you can now see how many cards are in your hand. I like it :)
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Curious as to why hallucination is split. That card is better than swash and while you might run both I am tempted to run just hallucination.

Also envenom I think is a top card. Fits rogue's curve too well. Maybe even good enough to bring a card as bad as blade flurry back. Think about that for a second.

Fire plume harbinger is at least a 4.

I am surprised to see sherazin on any bottom chart.

Jewelled macaw being overrated. It's a slightly faster webspinner in a set filled with beasts. It'll be random as hell.

edit:
Other overrated, blazecaller, arcanologist, spiritsinger umbra
Click to expand...



Hallucination doesn't spawn patches. 1/1 body is relevant for rogue too.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I am not sure how Emerald Reaver is the most controversial card.

It's like pre nerf Leper Gnome that does 1 damage instead of two to face as a battlecry instead of DR AND is a beast. If Aggro Hunter is a thing or even if quest Hunter is a thing then that card will see play.


Jewelled macaw being overrated. It's a slightly faster webspinner in a set filled with beasts. It'll be random as hell.
Click to expand...
Saying it's "just a faster Webspinner" is greatly simplifying things.

Things you cannot do as Webspinner:

*Play it off a top deck and then another bigger beast in the same turn.
*Have the 1/1 survive and then play the beast that you got off of it.
*Get surprise lethal on the spot or damage on board.


That alone makes Jeweled far superior in the late game while being just as good in the early game.


The part about higher range of RNG is legit but there is a very high amount of solid/decent beasts introduced in the set. There are very few complete crap ones. I don't think that's going to factor in as much.

High variance random effects has never stopped people from playing a strong card.


For the record I did have Hallucination and Envenom weapon rated as 4 each.
 
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