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The Dismissal of Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
- Thread starter AquaWateria
- Start date
Tropical Freeze sold over a million on the Wii U and is frequently referenced as one of the best platformers ever.
As a diehard Metroid fan myself, I love Tropical Freeze. The only "bad" thing about the game is that it released at a time when Nintendo was up to their armpits in 2D platformers, but Tropical Freeze was still the best of that bunch.
As a diehard Metroid fan myself, I love Tropical Freeze. The only "bad" thing about the game is that it released at a time when Nintendo was up to their armpits in 2D platformers, but Tropical Freeze was still the best of that bunch.
As it's been said, the original reveal thread was one of the most embarrassing things i've seen on GAF and it proved to me that Metroid fans are one of the worst fanbases here.
People seem to forget that Retro themselves wanted to make the game. No conspiracies of Nintendo forcing them to do it, when given the choice of a game, they felt they weren't done with DKC yet.
What matters most is that it's one of the best platformers around and no amount of salty fanboys in this very thread trying to discredit it will change that.
People seem to forget that Retro themselves wanted to make the game. No conspiracies of Nintendo forcing them to do it, when given the choice of a game, they felt they weren't done with DKC yet.
What matters most is that it's one of the best platformers around and no amount of salty fanboys in this very thread trying to discredit it will change that.
AquaWateria
Member
I agree Metroid fans are some of the worst.
Can't imagine how they'll react to a 3ds metroid game.
A good 3DS Metroid game would have a good reception. A bad or mediocre 3DS Metroid game will have a poor reception except from contrarian Nintendo fans who don't even bother to play it.
Don't remind me. Acting like Reggie came into their house and shit on their mom. How Nintendo "betrayed" them and it was "spitting in their faces". Also calling Next Level Games a bad dev before the game was even out.
spyroflame0487
Member
I enjoyed it and actually loved it. I'm a long time fan of DK the character but I've never really played a DK game before it.
I think it released early in the Wii U's lifespan so maybe a lot of people didn't play it.
I personally had a lot of trouble with that one fucking vine level where you have to time it perfectly to jump off. I stopped playing after that. Up until then it was great; fun levels, beautiful design and a really great soundtrack.
I hope we hear about a new dong game at E3 this year or maybe a sequel/ updated port of this for Switch
I think it released early in the Wii U's lifespan so maybe a lot of people didn't play it.
I personally had a lot of trouble with that one fucking vine level where you have to time it perfectly to jump off. I stopped playing after that. Up until then it was great; fun levels, beautiful design and a really great soundtrack.
I hope we hear about a new dong game at E3 this year or maybe a sequel/ updated port of this for Switch
And then the oh-so-misunderstood game came out to bad reviews and sold like shit because barely anyone wanted to play it.
Federation Force deserves a defense force the same way The Bureau: XCOM Declassified and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII deserve a defense force.
I think it's because, even tho it is a great platformer (and maybe even the best in the DKC series in terms of pure gameplay), there's so much it doesn't nail at all compared to the original Rare games.
Atmosphere, music, dastardly traps/enemies/puzzles, all that stuff. I replayed DKC 2 recently and was exclaiming aloud at how genius it is. Tropical Freeze might be objectively better, but it's way less influential, impressive, memorable, and important all around.
Atmosphere, music, dastardly traps/enemies/puzzles, all that stuff. I replayed DKC 2 recently and was exclaiming aloud at how genius it is. Tropical Freeze might be objectively better, but it's way less influential, impressive, memorable, and important all around.
They do not deserve another metroid game, ungrateful bastards.
Metroid aside it was blatantly obvious that another 2D platformer on a system that already was being well served in that genre to the exclusion of others was the wrong game at the wrong time for a system such as the WiiU. Especially one which was tanking due to the decisions Nintendo themselves made with the hardware, marketing and games as well as game development. Further worsened by the fact that the 3DS absolutely cannibalised what little the WiiU had with its own me too experiences.
Some games are made because they sell millions and some are made because they add a certain luster to the consoles library. TF despite its high level of polish was hardly what was needed at such a time, that's not to say Metroid was that title but at the very least something that didn't from a simple glance appear safe or as someone earlier put a Wii HD title. BOTW is a perfect example of a title with incredible levels of polish, ambitious and brings that luster to the system for people who are already fans and aren't already fans.
FutureLarking
Member
Played it, got straight up bored, quickly. I might actually play it on the Switch though - I didn't get along with the original on the Wii but finished the 3DS version.
Things like not being able to use dpad and analogue stick at the same time and the ridiculous load times got to me too.
Now, Metroid Prime: Federation Force - there's a game that got ridiculously shit upon. It's a legit, creative, varied multiplayer shooter. It's not Metroid Prime, doesn't mean it's shit.
Things like not being able to use dpad and analogue stick at the same time and the ridiculous load times got to me too.
Now, Metroid Prime: Federation Force - there's a game that got ridiculously shit upon. It's a legit, creative, varied multiplayer shooter. It's not Metroid Prime, doesn't mean it's shit.
Absolutely not. Before release you would have people be furious that Metroid isn't given proper treatment as an important console release on Switch with high production values, and is instead relegated to the dying 3DS. After release, even if the game was great, the sentiment would be that all that good gameplay was wasted on the 3DS, clamour for a Switch remake and then be flustered when no such thing happens.
Nice fanfiction. It's not like the GBA entries are some of the most beloved Metroid games, right?
These were released at a time when there was no shortage of high-profile Metroid releases on console (i.e. the Prime games).
Then again, when I heard "Metroid on 3DS" I was thinking 3D, as in sort of looking like Federation Force, except being a good, traditional Prime Metroid-game. 2D Metroid might go over a bit better on the 3DS.
I don't think you're correct. I'm a huge fan, I would have absolutely welcomed a 3DS metroid game, and I suspect I would be in the majority. My sentiments would depend on what the game actually consisted of.
lucablight
Member
It blows my mind that people can call this game one of the best platformers ever when it's such an utter disappointment compared (in fact both of the retro developed games are) to the snes trilogy. I grew up with the snes games so I really wanted to like these games and experience the same joy I had as a kid. It is fundamentally flawed on so many levels it can't even be close to considered one of the best in its genre due to some of the following reasons
*frustrating difficulty. It's just not fun to play. This coupled with the dumb design choices makes it even worse. In the snes trilogy I enjoyed looking for the DK coins and bonus levels and it was fun getting hints from Cranky Kong on where to find them. It was an experience. In this there are 5 million puzzle pieces and there doesn't seem to be any real incentive to find them and coupled with the high difficulty I just couldn't be bothered in the end.
*boring enemy design and characters. I remember how charismatic and fun the kremlins and K. Rool were in the snes trilogy. Cranky Kong and all the other kongs had so much personality. What did they have there? Random crabs? So dull and lifeless.
*poor controls. I lost time the number of times I died because Donkey Kong rolled off the edge of a cliff. The timing and physics were just off in this. If I want to extend my jump by rolling off the edge of a cliff I shouldn't have to worry about my character missing the mark. The design in this was just lazy as well. In the snes trilogy you could control two characters and they each had their unique strengths and weaknesses. You can only control Donkey Kong in this and the addition of Dixie Kong as a buddy made all the other buddies useless. People keep praising this game for its design but this is an example of how unimaginative it is.
*frustrating difficulty. It's just not fun to play. This coupled with the dumb design choices makes it even worse. In the snes trilogy I enjoyed looking for the DK coins and bonus levels and it was fun getting hints from Cranky Kong on where to find them. It was an experience. In this there are 5 million puzzle pieces and there doesn't seem to be any real incentive to find them and coupled with the high difficulty I just couldn't be bothered in the end.
*boring enemy design and characters. I remember how charismatic and fun the kremlins and K. Rool were in the snes trilogy. Cranky Kong and all the other kongs had so much personality. What did they have there? Random crabs? So dull and lifeless.
*poor controls. I lost time the number of times I died because Donkey Kong rolled off the edge of a cliff. The timing and physics were just off in this. If I want to extend my jump by rolling off the edge of a cliff I shouldn't have to worry about my character missing the mark. The design in this was just lazy as well. In the snes trilogy you could control two characters and they each had their unique strengths and weaknesses. You can only control Donkey Kong in this and the addition of Dixie Kong as a buddy made all the other buddies useless. People keep praising this game for its design but this is an example of how unimaginative it is.
Schopenhauerian
Member
Interesting points, as I mentioned on the last page, in response to others who had similar thoughts (it's true that we simply don't know if there were other projects that folks at Retro would have preferred to make, instead of DKC).
But just to clarify, is it your view that (1) Nintendo themselves believed that they had a significant PR problem after the June 2013 reveal, a PR problem that (2) Nintendo believed was in need of a coordinated response from Miyamoto and Kelbaugh, and that (3) Nintendo believed that saying "it was Retro's idea" was something that would serve to address/diminish this particular PR problem?
I doubt the 3DS will even be alive by the time they announce a good Metroid.
It's definitely not happening this year.
Snowmads
They were pretty great
Honestly this reads as the power of nostalgia. Nothing wrong with having a preference of course, but compared to the Snes trilogy the new games feel like they have a much tighter design, with more responsive controls and movement possibilities. As a kid I could never really get used to the art design of the Snes games either, that early 3D just didn't work for me at all. These games pop a lot more. There's a ton of personality to it, and a lot of super charming designs. Kremlins are ugly.
They're more difficult of course, I agree with that one. But, outside of a couple of frustrating moments, it felt much more rewarding to me as well. But I don't agree with the art design or control complaints at all. The new games have a lot of improvement over the originals for me.
But like I said, I don't have much nostalgia for the originals. I played them at the time, but I never really loved them. I tried going back to them after enjoying the new games, but they just don't hold up for me personally at all - this will be different if you have a strong childhood connection to it of course.
toythatkills
Member
I personally just didn't enjoy playing it. I want my 2D platformers to be not much more than run and jump, and this thing had so many controls that I just felt lost every time I loaded it.
If anything, it shows they listen to their fans. People were wanting DKC back for almost a decade after Rare was bought. They didn't want one game and that's it. They wanted their series back. Now Metroid fans are in the same boat, so I imagine a new game Metroid can't be far away now.
Also Jungle Beat=/=DKC. Radically different.
Neoleo2143
Member
The amount of level concepts and the length of the levels to develop them properly is astoundingly phenomenal.
Also, I genuinely think this is one of the most beautiful games ever made. The UC3 art director and his team went HAM on all these beautiful and clean levels. There are so much variety and mixing of level themes that it constantly feels fresh.
Also, the enemy design is so so good both gameplay wise and story wise. Personality wise the Snomads are the equal of the Kremlins. The Polar Bear Boss <3.
Also, the soundtrack is the stuff of legends. David Wise is such a great composer.
And the Hard mode is god tier, it's so simple in its changes but so demanding and tight in its result.
The only part that falls flat is the 100%, DKC2 is still better in that regard. Too many bonus rooms are reused, though collecting KONG letters is still wonderful.
Also, I genuinely think this is one of the most beautiful games ever made. The UC3 art director and his team went HAM on all these beautiful and clean levels. There are so much variety and mixing of level themes that it constantly feels fresh.
Also, the enemy design is so so good both gameplay wise and story wise. Personality wise the Snomads are the equal of the Kremlins. The Polar Bear Boss <3.
Also, the soundtrack is the stuff of legends. David Wise is such a great composer.
And the Hard mode is god tier, it's so simple in its changes but so demanding and tight in its result.
The only part that falls flat is the 100%, DKC2 is still better in that regard. Too many bonus rooms are reused, though collecting KONG letters is still wonderful.
evil monkey
Member
I think it's almost completely due to the Wii U bombing. Negative perception on the internet is like a drop in the ocean when it comes to actual game reception and sales.
DKCR was also met with some criticism (to a lesser extent) for not being Metroid and it sold gangbusters because it was both good and on platforms that weren't dead.
DKCR was also met with some criticism (to a lesser extent) for not being Metroid and it sold gangbusters because it was both good and on platforms that weren't dead.
StAidan
Member
I really enjoyed DKCR on Wii. I wanted to like Tropical Freeze as well, but I finally played it for the first time a few months ago and just felt underwhelmed. I went through the first world and then dropped it out of relative boredom.
I think it just felt too much like DKCR. It's another DKC game which is great, but I didn't feel like I was experiencing anything new or different from its predecessor.
I think it just felt too much like DKCR. It's another DKC game which is great, but I didn't feel like I was experiencing anything new or different from its predecessor.
Actually, I think Bloodborne is exactly the sequel to Demon's Souls, at least more so than it would be to any of the Dark Souls games. A hub separate from the main game world, consumable healing, gameplay speed significantly closer to Demon's than either of the progressively slower DS1 and DS2, the more linear progression combined with more complex level design, and even the music for both was recorded with seemingly real instruments versus the sampled music of the Dark Souls games. It also tries much harder to tie its mechanics to the in game lore than the Dark Souls games did.
Tropical Freeze is my favorite DKC game, I simply never understood the obviously tasteless backlash. The wonderfully designed levels, satisfying platforming challenge, the gorgeous art direction, perfect framerate (outside of loading screens..) and an ost worthy of tears of joy are perhaps unequaled in its genre. A seemingly lofty claim I know, but I would probably be saying they don't make them like they used to if not for this very game. The recycled bonus rooms are possibly the only real issue the game has.
Neoleo2143
Member
The 1st world is probably the most similar to the first game. It's pretty solid as an introduction, but the next world all the way to the end are incredible.
AquaWateria
Member
LordOcidax
Member
Best Wii U game and one of the best games of this gen. Period.
ffs i need this on the switch :/
Aldric
Member
Great game, one of my favorite Nintendo games of this past decade actually, but l still think it was a bad use of Retro's talents and contributed to the terrible trainwreck that was the Wii U by saturating its library with games that had very similar appeal. You don't sell expensive HD consoles with 2D platformers, no matter how well made they are. You need your Breath of the Wild style experiences, and the Wii U was devoid of this type of game before Xeno X and by that time the system was dead and buried. People expected Retro to deliver a game like that.
momshotdad
Member
I consider this the 2nd best platformer of all time only behind Super Mario World. Everything on in that game is phenomenal and I hope they re-release it on Switch so more people can experience it's brilliance.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Its a fun game. They should just have someone else make them and not Retro.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Then it wouldn't be as good.
Having someone else make a new Donkey Kong Country is like having someone else make a new Metroid Prime, and we all saw how that turned out.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I can live with that. Its for the greater good.
TheMoon
Member
yup, that is an E3 pre-release shot. the final game got a visual polish overhaul.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
As someone who loves 2D platformers, Tropical Freeze is probably the best one ever.
The odds were stacked against it at every odd though, from its announcement to the hardware it was on to the reviews it got.
Id love a Switch port with minor enhancements like faster loading, improved resolution/textures and maybe some bonus levels.
The odds were stacked against it at every odd though, from its announcement to the hardware it was on to the reviews it got.
Id love a Switch port with minor enhancements like faster loading, improved resolution/textures and maybe some bonus levels.
Honestly, I believe the game became a victim to what I would see as the false expectations. This happens a lot with Nintendo, and it is already starting to take form for E3.
NeoGAF: Do not believe rumors, if you do you will get burned.
Rumor: Metroid
NeoGAF: It's Happening isn't it?
E3: DKTF
NeoGAF: What? No Metroid? You suck Nintendo, and this game sucks. We were supposed to get Metroid.
---People get game---
NeoGAF: WOW! One of the best platformers I have ever played.
The sad thing is is that this narrative is repeating itself this E3
NeoGAF: Do not believe rumors or you will get burned
Rumor: Pokemon Stars and Metroid Prime 4
NeoGAF: It's happening isn't it?
E3: Game
NeoGAF: What? No Pokemon or Metroid? Fail E3 for Nintendo.
Now Nintendo may very well announce these games, but it is eerily similar to almost every E3 since 2011/12.
For me, the game was a joy to play through, and whatever Retro comes out with next I will most likely enjoy. They haven't made a bad game to my knowledge. A couple of average games, sure. Bad? I do not think so.
NeoGAF: Do not believe rumors, if you do you will get burned.
Rumor: Metroid
NeoGAF: It's Happening isn't it?
E3: DKTF
NeoGAF: What? No Metroid? You suck Nintendo, and this game sucks. We were supposed to get Metroid.
---People get game---
NeoGAF: WOW! One of the best platformers I have ever played.
The sad thing is is that this narrative is repeating itself this E3
NeoGAF: Do not believe rumors or you will get burned
Rumor: Pokemon Stars and Metroid Prime 4
NeoGAF: It's happening isn't it?
E3: Game
NeoGAF: What? No Pokemon or Metroid? Fail E3 for Nintendo.
Now Nintendo may very well announce these games, but it is eerily similar to almost every E3 since 2011/12.
For me, the game was a joy to play through, and whatever Retro comes out with next I will most likely enjoy. They haven't made a bad game to my knowledge. A couple of average games, sure. Bad? I do not think so.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Not for those that highly value big IP platformers...
The only reason you're saying it was unnecessary is because you didn't care about it personally. No sequel is "necessary." The vast majority of them are "more of the same." And as been pointed out multiple times, Retro themselves wanted to do DK over Metroid. Your argument is disingenuous.
TF was no more unnecessary than Prime 2. And actually, unlike Prime 2, TF is a better game than the original.
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