RokkanStoned
Member
Oh this is glorious. Reminds me of 2012-2013 era GAF, just switched around (and with a larger gap). Even more interesting to see Digital Foundry's first multi-platform comparisons. 
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PS5 specs revealed. Up to 10.2 Tflops.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
phil_t98
#SonyToo
so getting to play a game quicker that could be compromised compared to the series x because of power is more important to you?
wordslaughter
Banned
I'm sure this has been said a ton of times already but if it's 10.2 TF, but requires a ridiculous clock speed of 2.23GHz to get there, then the PS5 is just NOT 10.2 TF.
There's NO WAY it can hold that clock for any meaningful amount of time.
Meanwhile if the XSX is 12.2TF with a GPU clock of 1.8GHz - that is a clock that can likely SUSTAINED.
We'll have to see what clock speed each can realistically sit, at but the TF difference is higher than 2 and probably, in reality, 3+
There's NO WAY it can hold that clock for any meaningful amount of time.
Meanwhile if the XSX is 12.2TF with a GPU clock of 1.8GHz - that is a clock that can likely SUSTAINED.
We'll have to see what clock speed each can realistically sit, at but the TF difference is higher than 2 and probably, in reality, 3+
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CobraAB
Member
jakinov
Member
How noticeable was it for PS4 Pro and Xbox one X? Games on both systems looked good, the difference wasn't night and day. The differences were noticeable when compared side by side but if I gave people a screenshot and asked what console it was from, people would have a hard time telling. Nobody would say which one looks bad.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Except that, you know, the XSX has a faster cpu and faster Ram too. The speed of a console isn’t measured by its hard drive speed.
Jimmyisback
Banned
Tommy Fisher. Tommy Fisher. Where art thou tommy fisher?
Psykodad
Banned
Maybe, i still think it has to do with that Series S.
Kacho
Member
Name checks out
Also, did developers come out to say that tflops don't matter last gen when it's all everyone could talk about?
GymWolf
Member
believe me, my desire was the absolute opposite, i was glad to change my gpu to keep up with a beast ps5.
mine was a sad joke.
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Elenchus
Banned
Not that surprised by the specs really. I knew Sony would be too vain to adopt a tower design and the cooling concerns would keep their clocks low.
Cerny could not even properly cool the Pro after all. So the idea that Sony was going to produce a smaller, cooler console with 13.3tfs (and at $400 no less) was always pure fantasy.
MS’s engineers demonstrated their superior skill with the 1X and have now demonstrated their superior pragmatism with the XSX. The key design choice was clearly form factor.
What confuses me however is why Sony decided to reveal it this way. Do this with a trailer of HZD 2 and you’re fine.
No idea what they are thinking right now. Usually far more savvy. Starting to think these narratives about the impact of new leadership at Sony May have merit.
Cerny could not even properly cool the Pro after all. So the idea that Sony was going to produce a smaller, cooler console with 13.3tfs (and at $400 no less) was always pure fantasy.
MS’s engineers demonstrated their superior skill with the 1X and have now demonstrated their superior pragmatism with the XSX. The key design choice was clearly form factor.
What confuses me however is why Sony decided to reveal it this way. Do this with a trailer of HZD 2 and you’re fine.
No idea what they are thinking right now. Usually far more savvy. Starting to think these narratives about the impact of new leadership at Sony May have merit.
tryDEATH
Member
LOL at 45%. The difference will be recognizable next gen the XSX is stacked to the brim with technology that will only widen. You don't have to lie to yourself, accept it and move on.
Dargor
Member
Man, I think they'll need a pretty sizable price difference if they even want to compete. Its like they (sony and ms) targeted completely different things on this and sony targeted the wrong place.
From a marketing point of view, its so much easier to sell 12 than it is to sell 10. They'll have a tough job, thats for sure.
From a marketing point of view, its so much easier to sell 12 than it is to sell 10. They'll have a tough job, thats for sure.
Tarin02543
Member
If I may use a comparison, when I installed a SSD into my 2012 PC suddenly the lesser performance felt meaningless.
Near instant boot up times and silent drives makes a huge difference.
So when PS5 is twice as fast in the SSD department that's where I'm putting my money into.
Near instant boot up times and silent drives makes a huge difference.
So when PS5 is twice as fast in the SSD department that's where I'm putting my money into.
ViciousAgenda
Member
I knew when I heard talk about how many transistors were in the CU's things were looking rough haha
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Basically what's going on. They still have an incredible system. No if ands or buts about it. That SSD and their I/O also sounds truly game changing. I'm eager to see how it performs relative to what Microsoft is doing with a slower SSD and their overall Velocity Architecture, which also sounds fucking amazing. I'm genuinely intrigued by that, probably more so than the traditional comparisons because we kind of have a good idea of what to expect there. However, on the SSD, game streaming/design front things could be quite interesting between the consoles.
FUCKING EXCITED FOR THESE CONSOLES. GET HERE SOON. Both are day ones for me.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
That's just not true. This PS5 TV stand accessory will almost guarantee a stable boost:
Should've been put into an XSX fridge.
Sota4077
Member
I bet Microsoft try to eat cost and sell theirs at $499. This is the last generation where you could feasibly see a lot of jumping from one eco system to the other. Folks are building large digital libraries and they do not want to lose those. It is just like smartphones.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
maybe they secretly spec'd series s to throw Sony off thinking that could be what they were going for and then revealed the series x
MDSLKTR
Member
VFXVeteran
Banned
My old claims from my sources seem to be all 100% correct... so there's that..
93xfan
Banned
Then they shouldn’t have used it to reveal the PS5 specs to the world.
It’s a shame there’s no BC for older systems and the BC itself is barebones. MS has a much, much better BC team.
I’m sure the exclusives will be great, but I’m really not sold on the hardware.
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decisions
Member
lol this is a funny account.
Teraflops are a marketing buzzword invented by Microsoft to get you to buy their console. Yes, it's one way to measure computational speed. But that metric doesn't sum up the entirety of a console's performance in one number. There are many other avenues for achieving desired results. We will all see this for ourselves when the PS5 exclusives are still the best looking games on the market as they have been since the PS3 days.
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MilkyJoe
Member
Will this live as long as the "expert in Japanese culture" post?
Armorian
Banned
Pretty much, GPU will be 10.2TF only in less demanding games.
PocoJoe
Banned
If you did watch the presentation, Cerny clearly told you why.
If you didnt:
SSD controller uses 12 lanes for data and with that configuration and chips they use it equals into 825gb, from there they could only double it up to 1.6tb.
Memory chips are lane dependant so you just cant add whatever amount you want without messing other things like bandwith.
Tomeru
Member
So you think that multiplats will run 30% better no matter what?
Compromised how? Lay down a realistic situation for me, based on what we now know.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
again the games will be great, just multiples will defiantly be better on xbox next gen. can see call of duty going to xbox again for dlc or exclusive content again
Nero_PR
Banned
I will get both consoles because on this gen they target different approaches to known problems, Xbox aiming for the balance between power and optimization, Sony aiming for speed and back-end optimization between the console parts.
The only things that worry me about PS5 are the following:
The only things that worry me about PS5 are the following:
- The price needs to be 399 to 449;
- The variable performance when at a peak is only 10.2 TFlops;
- The final design wasn't unveiled, which gives me the idea of they still are discussing the overheating solutions because of the already overclocked GPU
McHuj
Member
Yeah. That reminded me of the cringey Xbox SOC 5 billion transistors talk at the Xbone reveal.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Show the math.
10.2/12.1 = .84
XsX has 16% more power.
Or alternatively 1.9/10.2 = .18
PS5 has 18% less power.
However you slice it, we're pretty far from 30%. It's a smaller power gap than between the PS4 Pro and the X1X.
octiny
Banned
I can only imagine the scrambling Sony had to do behind the scenes before their presentation video was filmed.
I'm just trying to picture what Phil Spencer & the rest of the team is doing right now.
oldergamer
Member
How did IGN get some of the information wrong or missing?
The left off the 3d audio chip of the xbox. They left off the 52 CU's, they left off dedicated hardware for raytracing. The power supply is in the case, so that should be no. Storage on both are custom. etc...
The left off the 3d audio chip of the xbox. They left off the 52 CU's, they left off dedicated hardware for raytracing. The power supply is in the case, so that should be no. Storage on both are custom. etc...
Paracelsus
Member
It's clear Sony is gambling everything on the notion that they have the hordes of gamers by the balls.
They're playing the "lol no games" game, since they assume everyone will want the console of God of War 2, Spiderman 2, Bloodborne 2, TLOU2(+1) and so on.
I think everything will be clear with pricing next to the machines.
They're playing the "lol no games" game, since they assume everyone will want the console of God of War 2, Spiderman 2, Bloodborne 2, TLOU2(+1) and so on.
I think everything will be clear with pricing next to the machines.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
based on the fact xbox is much more powerful by 2-3tf and a lot can be done with that, even just use that extra power for ray tracing alone to add extra shine and polish
T-I-N-M-A-N dX
Member
Which would be my biggest worry too if I were in the PS5 camp. Is BC limited cause that wanna do the remaster double dip gimmick for games or are they gonna have something like MS where you buy Cyberpunk on XBone you get the XSX version too?
What’s the deal Sony?
Krappadizzle
Member
Lol, by all means have it your way. But if the difference is better graphics and resolutions/performance or 4 seconds faster load times. I'll take the better performance/graphics.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
No, you can't extrapolate game performance by comparing teraflops from two different systems. You can have 12TF and have bottlenecks in other areas, it might come down to the game, the engine and the dev. Most cross platform devs do not care about squeezing anything from extra effort, we see that now with a 4.2TF vs 6TF and the XBX has more memory and higher mem bandwidth, yet you need pixel counters to tell you which one is better.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
9tf on the ps5 is a disappointment.
That they couldn't even land the backwards compatibility is just unacceptable.
That they didn't learn what a bad first showing means coming from the bone's tvtvtvtv shitshow is just laughable.
That they couldn't even land the backwards compatibility is just unacceptable.
That they didn't learn what a bad first showing means coming from the bone's tvtvtvtv shitshow is just laughable.
GymWolf
Member
more unstable framerate
dynamyc 4k instead of real4k
less details
this is what change on pc when you have a weaker cpu\gpu combo.
maybe on console is gonna be a bit better because "optimization" but still you are gonna have some differences.
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HaveButOneLife
Banned
Because it's a mathematical calculation of the two most important GPU features, but more teraflops isn't the only determining factor.
Of course facts are facts though. Fact is is that there's a pretty decent difference as far as RAM goes, that's all we know of besides teraflops and a small clock speed difference on the GPU. Do we know the potential shader units and clock speed of the Series X based off of teraflops alone?
2.23 GHz for the GPU is pretty small, no?
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
On paper the Xbox is more powerful. If it's indeed a 15% difference that'd mean:
Xbox running a game at 2160p Vs the PS5 running at 1800p (then upscaling).
Or
Xbox hitting 60fps and PS5 running at 51fps.
Xbox will be the better choice overall. If you want multiplatform games Xbox is a no brainer. PS5 will do well but will lag behind a little. Where PS5 will shine is 1st party titles.
If I had to pick one I'd definitely go Xbox.
Xbox running a game at 2160p Vs the PS5 running at 1800p (then upscaling).
Or
Xbox hitting 60fps and PS5 running at 51fps.
Xbox will be the better choice overall. If you want multiplatform games Xbox is a no brainer. PS5 will do well but will lag behind a little. Where PS5 will shine is 1st party titles.
If I had to pick one I'd definitely go Xbox.
Old Empire.
Member
The Resolution and fps potentially yes. It truly depends on the third party devs and what platform they build for. CU count lot lower on the PS5, so the scale of the game can't be different on the xbox one series.
No third party devs would place 15 AI characters in a game village ( PS5 game.)Xbox version 30 AI characters, even though the more powerful machine can render it!
Journey
Banned
What...
in..
the..
actual..
F*ck
On the contrary, PS5 only reaches 10TF when in boost mode, not at all times. XSX is 12TF without boost and remains consistent at all times.
Using a speaker as an analogy:
X series X = 1200 Watts RMS
PS5 = 1000 Watts Peak
HaveButOneLife
Banned
The Series X must be $549 or $599 then. That GPU is pretty beefy.
KlickKlack
Banned
first: 3TF not 2
and that is 2 generation leap :
Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X Technology Glossary
As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X, we’ve made a number of technology advancements across hardware and software that will take your gaming experience to the next level. We’ve created the below guide to help familiarize yourself with some of the new terms we’re introducing to describe the tech and functionality of Xbox Series X.
Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) – As part of commitment to responsiveness for the next generation of console gaming, Xbox Series X supports Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) with capable displays. ALLM automatically enables your display’s lowest latency mode when you start playing. This functionality exists on Xbox One consoles today
Backward Compatibility – At Xbox, we’ve made a promise to compatibility: you can expect thousands of your favorite games across four generations of gaming, your Xbox One gaming accessories, your Xbox gaming legacy, and industry-leading services like Xbox Game Pass to work with Xbox Series X. Backward compatible games will benefit from the power and performance of Xbox Series X, resulting in steadier framerates, faster load times, improved resolution and visual fidelity. Fans and game creators can feel confident they will be able to play and create the best version of their games on the Xbox Series X.
DirectML – Xbox Series X supports Machine Learning for games with DirectML, a component of DirectX. DirectML leverages unprecedented hardware performance in a console, benefiting from over 24 TFLOPS of 16-bit float performance and over 97 TOPS (trillion operations per second) of 4-bit integer performance on Xbox Series X. Machine Learning can improve a wide range of areas, such as making NPCs much smarter, providing vastly more lifelike animation, and greatly improving visual quality.
DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.
Dynamic Latency Input (DLI) –Another innovation we are making to reduce latency for Xbox Series X is Dynamic Latency Input (DLI). With DLI, developers can more accurately synchronize the player’s input with the game’s simulation and render loop, even further reducing input latency while playing the game.
GPU Work Creation – Xbox Series X adds hardware, firmware and shader compiler support for GPU work creation that provides powerful capabilities for the GPU to efficiently handle new workloads without any CPU assistance. This provides more flexibility and performance for developers to deliver their graphics visions.
Hardware Accelerated DirectX Raytracing (DXR) – From improved lighting, shadows and reflections as well as more realistic acoustics and spatial audio, raytracing enables developers to create more physically accurate worlds. For the very first time in a game console, Xbox Series X includes support for high performance, hardware accelerated raytracing. Xbox Series X uses a custom-designed GPU leveraging the latest innovation from our partners at AMD and built in collaboration with the same team who developed DirectX Raytracing. Developers will be able to deliver incredibly immersive visual and audio experiences using the same techniques on PC and beyond.
Hardware Decompression – Hardware decompression is a dedicated hardware component introduced with Xbox Series X to allow games to consume as little space as possible on the SSD while eliminating all CPU overhead typically associated with run-time decompression. It reduces the software overhead of decompression when operating at full SSD performance from more than three CPU cores to zero – thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better gameplay and improved framerates. Hardware decompression is one of the components of the Xbox Velocity Architecture.
Intelligent Delivery – Microsoft’s developer facing technology to reduce the size of game installs. Intelligent Delivery empowers developers to only install the pieces of the game you need, thereby minimizing the amount of content that needs to be installed or downloaded to the SSD.
Latency – Latency refers to responsiveness of the console and controller, including the time it takes for your input to be registered by your console and then displayed on your screen. Reducing latency results in a more connected and immersive experience. Xbox Series X will be our most responsive console ever featuring ultra-low latency with advanced technology that minimizes latency at every stage of the gaming pipeline so that you instantly see the impact of your actions on the screen.
Mesh Shading – Mesh shading will enable developers to dramatically improve the performance and image quality when rendering a substantial number of complex objects in a scene. As an example, mesh shaders could enable the player to experience asteroid belts and fields of flowers in more pristine detail without seeing a loss in performance.
Native Resolution – Native Resolution is an Xbox Series X backwards compatibility enhancement for select Xbox One games that allows them to render at native 4K even if they weren’t originally designed for 4K.
Optimized for Xbox Series X – Games built using the Xbox Series X development kit and designed to take advantage of the unique capabilities of the Xbox Series X. These include new titles built natively using the Xbox Series X development environment as well as previously released titles that have been rebuilt specifically for Xbox Series X. They will showcase unparalleled load-times, visuals, responsiveness and framerates up to 120 fps.
Parallel Cooling Architecture – Parallel Cooling Architecture is the name of the innovative system design used to cool Xbox Series X. Building a console that delivers four times the processing power of Xbox One X in the most quiet and efficient way – something that is critically important with all the extra power of our next generation console – led to its unique vertical design.
Project Acoustics – Incubated over a decade by Microsoft Research, Project Acoustics accurately models sound propagation physics in mixed reality and games, employed by many AAA experiences today. It is unique in simulating wave effects like diffraction in complex scene geometries without straining CPU, enabling a much more immersive and lifelike auditory experience. Plug-in support for both the Unity and Unreal game engines empower the sound designer with expressive controls to mold reality. Developers will be able to easily leverage Project Acoustics with Xbox Series X through the addition of a new custom audio hardware block.
Quick Resume – A new feature powered by the technical capabilities and the innovative Xbox Velocity Architecture in Xbox Series X, Quick Resume enables players to seamlessly switch between multiple titles and resume instantly from where you last left off.
RDNA 2 – The custom designed processor in the Xbox Series X leverages RDNA 2, the latest next generation graphics architecture from our partners at AMD. RDNA 2 provides a significant advancement in performance and efficiency as well as next generation graphics features such as hardware accelerated raytracing and variable rate shading.
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.
SDR to HDR Conversion – With Xbox Series X, existing Xbox games, including recent titles within the ID@Xbox program, that don’t already have native HDR support will get the next-gen treatment. Xbox Series X is able to leverage an innovative HDR reconstruction technique to enhance existing SDR games with no work from developers and no impact to available CPU, GPU or memory resources.
Smart Delivery – Smart Delivery is a new technology introduced with Xbox Series X that will ensure you always play the best version of the games you own for your console, across generations. All Xbox Game Studios titles that are optimized for Xbox Series X, including “Halo Infinite” will support Smart Delivery, providing the best available version for whichever console you choose to play on. For example, this means if you purchase the Xbox One version of a supported title, we will identify and deliver the best version of it to your Xbox One, as usual. If you decide to jump into the next generation with Xbox Series X, we will automatically provide the Xbox Series X optimized version of the game at no additional cost if and when it becomes available. Smart Delivery is available to all Xbox developers.
Spatial Audio – Spatial Audio delivers deeply immersive audio which enables the player to more accurately pinpoint objects in a 3D play space. With full support for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic, Xbox Series X has custom audio hardware to offload audio processing from the CPU, dramatically improving the accessibility, quality and performance of these immersive experiences.
TFLOPS (Teraflops) – TFLOPS (or “teraflops”) stands for Trillion Floating-point Operations Per Second and is a measure of raw mathematical performance of a GPU. While Xbox Series X delivers 12 TFLOPS of 32-bit float performance, two times that of the Xbox One X, the architectural efficiency improvements brought by AMD’s RDNA 2 architecture plus our next generation features such as Variable Rate Shading (VRS) and hardware accelerated DirectX Raytracing means that Xbox Series X will deliver well over twice the effective graphics performance of Xbox One X for games.
Variable Rate Shading (VRS) – Variable Rate Shading increases GPU efficiency by concentrating shader work where it’s most needed and reducing shader work in areas where it won’t be noticeable. With minimal developer effort, VRS significantly improves GPU performance resulting in more stable and higher resolutions and frame rates with no perceptible loss in visual quality.
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) – Variable Refresh Rate is a new addition to HDMI 2.1 which enables capable displays to refreshed as fast as the console can render images, thereby eliminating tearing, increasing smoothness, and reducing latency. We have been working with the industry’s leading TV manufacturers to ensure the display ecosystem is ready for the features we are bringing with Xbox Series X.
Xbox Series X Storage Expansion Card – Built in partnership with Seagate, this 1 TB custom storage solution expands storage capacity of Xbox Series X with the full speed and performance of the Xbox Velocity Architecture Previous generation Xbox titles can still be played directly from external USB 3.2 hard drives. However, to receive all the benefits of the Xbox Velocity Architecture and optimal performance, Xbox Series X, optimized games should be played from the internal SSD or Xbox Series X Storage Expansion Card.
Xbox Velocity Architecture – The Xbox Velocity Architecture is the new architecture we’ve created for the Xbox Series X to unlock new capabilities never-before seen in console development. It consists of four components: our custom NVMe SSD, a dedicated hardware decompression block, the all new DirectStorage API, and Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS). This combination of custom hardware and deep software integration allows developers to radically improve asset streaming and effectively multiply available memory. It will enable richer and more dynamic living worlds unlike anything ever seen before. It also effectively eliminates loading times, and makes fast travel systems just that: fast.
Xbox Wireless Protocol – One of the first points to reduce latency is within the communication between your controller and your console. By bringing our existing high-bandwidth, low-latency wireless protocol on the Xbox One family of devices to Xbox Series X, we’re able to not only reduce latency in your gaming experience but also ensure all of your existing Xbox One gaming accessories will be compatible with Xbox Series X.