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[ethomaz]

And don’t games on console also use 1000s to list game sizes?

I believe consoles (I will check PS4) display base2... so a 1TB HDD shows 931GB there.

Edit - You are right.

I used a Pendrive with a 311MB file in Base2 (1024) that means 326.xMB in base10 (1000).

PS4 shows the file as 326.9MB.

That means PS4 shows base10 (1000 bytes = 1 kilobyte).

PS5 will probably shows 825GB.

 

[johnjohn]

When engineer from intel says that PS5 looks really promising and 3d audio "stokes" him, it is not a small thing. Also many big dev agreed.

Xbots should stop the mad down talk or shut up if only thing they understand is 12>10.2

Well, after the launch things will be the same as in this gen, more popular one will dominate

Another dev praising the audio lol which nobody cares about. I think Sony messed up putting so much focus on something that the casual audience doesn't care about. This is going to be another Kinect situation.

 

[ethomaz]

Another dev praising the audio lol which nobody cares about. I think Sony messed up putting so much focus on something that the casual audience doesn't care about. This is going to be another Kinect situation.

I believe Sony focused in what devs asked them like they did with PS4.

 

[johnjohn]

I believe Sony focused in what devs asked them like they did with PS4.

Well it seems like that was a mistake in this case. Devs may care about the audio, but gamers don't. These devs are out of touch with what gamers want.

It's bizarre that the biggest compliment the devs can give the PS5 is about audio.

 

[quest]

Another dev praising the audio lol which nobody cares about. I think Sony messed up putting so much focus on something that the casual audience doesn't care about. This is going to be another Kinect situation.

I'm assuming it's mostly for vr but nice bonus for everyone with great set up. Its a really nice feature.

 

[BlacknGold_Blood]

That gulf ?do you mean gulf in power ? Man its just 17% . Right now x1x has 45% advantage over pro. Or ps4 has 41% advantage over x1.this is closest 2 console have ever been

Then you factor in the much higher clock speed, the unknown benefits of RDNA2, the expensive cooling system, the game-changing SSD that helps the RAM, CPU and GPU, multi-plat developers saying the PS5 is “the most amazing hardware in twenty years” and that both consoles perform nearly the same in games, and you realize all this BS about a “wide gulf” is just uninformed noise.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I'm assuming it's mostly for vr but nice bonus for everyone with great set up. Its a really nice feature.

This is great for everyone regardless of setup not just VR, i bet TLOU 2 among others will get a patch on PS5 that enables this.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

That gulf ?do you mean gulf in power ? Man its just 17% . Right now x1x has 45% advantage over pro. Or ps4 has 41% advantage over x1.this is closest 2 console have ever been

This point seems to be constantly overlooked.

 

[ethomaz]

Well it seems like that was a mistake in this case. Devs may care about the audio, but gamers don't. These devs are out of touch with what gamers want.

It's bizarre that the biggest compliment the devs can give the PS5 is about audio.

Depend of the position of the dev I guess.

For example I just read another dev words that Gudam on ERA shared

”Again, this is another thing that is hard to imagine. I've only worked on consoles as far back as PS3/360 generation up to current boxes, and all of them have been so incredibly slow to fill your RAM that you are designing around the streaming and loading bottlenecks. When Mark was talking about having a drive so fast that you could just clear your RAM and in a blink of an eye and load a whole 10+ GB of assets in there my mind was racing. His example of "no need for a giant canyon corridor to load the next vista" is entirely appropriate. It's one of those things that may not even be obvious to the player the way a load screen comparison would be. World and game design will just change in a qualitative way that is not easily measurable."

So these that praise the Audio are related with audio tasks... these that praise the ability to load the data from SSD to RAM are related with coding the data move between disc and RAM.

Each dev will talk about the part that affect their work/task more... it is his/her expertise and where he will be directly affected.

My opinion is give dev tools that they will early or late find new ways to use these tools... SSD PS5 setup will show devs doing thing next-gen not possible on PC or others consoles.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Lol replying to Timdog

The hypocrisy is crazy when he was one of Mistermediax followers and would take his word as gospel. Bro shit is sickening

 

[Audiophile]

Absolutely, the SSD isn't a direct substitute for RAM. But a faster SSD gets data into RAM faster and this allows you to have a lot less "just in case" data in there which is redundant to the current frame. You can put most of your RAM footprint into now; and when you get data for later, you get it as and when you need it.

A lot of people are conflating the idea of an SSD as RAM with the more efficient use of RAM as a result of a fast SSD; and are using the former to discount the latter.

The APU<>RAM path is still reliant on RAM bandwidth and the APU's ability to make use of it.

 

[vdopey]

Like, really?
Wtf it's like for someone a meter is 100 cm and 107 cm for another. Why everything needs to be overly complicate in tech? Can't they pick the oldest and original metric and use that forever?

computers operate on base 2 (binary so 2^10 gives us 1024) I think IBM used based 10 way back when it was selling its storage to big businesses base 10 is something we understand and operate on in a daily basis, but computers operate on base2 binary, hence why the discrepancy, it should really be fixed, but for disk manufacturers base 10 makes it look cleaner and easier to sell than the equivalent base 2 naming. Similar logic I think as to why some parts of the world still use imperial over metric, even though metric is far more scientific and accurate.

https://searchstorage.techtarget.com/definition/mebibyte-MiB for more info or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte

In fact correction early IBM computers were base10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_computer which is probably why they sold the storage in base10.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That gulf ?do you mean gulf in power ? Man its just 17% . Right now x1x has 45% advantage over pro. Or ps4 has 41% advantage over x1.this is closest 2 console have ever been

Couple that with diminishing returns it’s going to be a fun and expensive year for us gamers

 

[SonGoku]

Here you go bro. Timestamped. He speaks slowly, so watch at 1.5-2x



Upon listening to what he has to say again, he's basically uncertain about whether PS5 will be bandwidth starved, and that data compression is possibly what will help mitigate any bandwidth limitation.

That video hasn't eased my worries at all lol, it claims that its better than the SEX solution but even if that were the case 448GB/s is inadequate baring some unforeseen RDNA2 efficiency or Sony customization
Video hasn't explained at all why 448GB/s will be adequate, all it cares about is being better than the other console which isn't reassuring

 

[CJY]

That video hasn't eased my worries at all lol, it claims that its better than the SEX solution but even if that were the case 448GB/s is inadequate baring some unforeseen RDNA2 efficiency or Sony customization
Video hasn't explained at all why 448GB/s will be adequate, all it cares about is being better than the other console which isn't reassuring

You're right, sorry to have gotten your hopes up. Doesn't do anything to ease concerns. I'm not going to concern myself about it though. Any closed system will have a series of compromises. This might be a big one, and it's a shame it's not the 512GB/s but cost cutting makes me hopefully they're able to hit 399 which is the most important thing to me.

 

[SonGoku]

You're right, sorry to have gotten your hopes up. Doesn't do anything to ease concerns. I'm not going to concern myself about it though. Any closed system will have a series of compromises. This might be a big one, and it's a shame it's not the 512GB/s but cost cutting makes me hopefully they're able to hit 399 which is the most important thing to me.

Yeah, bandwidth might well be the weaklink of next gen like the jaguars were this gen but let's hope its better than it looks
True about that, $399 would be huge

 

[quest]

Yeah, bandwidth might well be the weaklink of next gen like the jaguars were this gen but let's hope its better than it looks
True about that, $399 would be huge

Unless they are eating a ton of money I don't see 399.99. Last generation was on the cheap at 399.99. Even with the narrow and fast the die is more 7nm high cost, hard drive lot more, cooling a lot more and the infrastructure to support the higher voltage like power supply ect. Both are looking at 499.99 with a small loss.

 

[SonGoku]

Unless they are eating a ton of money I don't see 399.99. Last generation was on the cheap at 399.99. Even with the narrow and fast the die is more 7nm high cost, hard drive lot more, cooling a lot more and the infrastructure to support the higher voltage like power supply ect. Both are looking at 499.99 with a small loss.

But remember the beginning of this gen was uncertain both played it safe and didn't want to take any losses
Not claiming $399 its certain, its a possibility

 

[johnjohn]

Unless they are eating a ton of money I don't see 399.99. Last generation was on the cheap at 399.99. Even with the narrow and fast the die is more 7nm high cost, hard drive lot more, cooling a lot more and the infrastructure to support the higher voltage like power supply ect. Both are looking at 499.99 with a small loss.

Yea I think both are going to be $499.

 

[Zero707]

 

[Classicrockfan]

I hope these consoles don’t come out the same day or week.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I hope these consoles don’t come out the same day or week.

Probably a week apart like in 2013

 

[Mass Shift]

It takes 20% GPU power for audio? I don’t believe it.

Nobody should believe that.

 

[LordOfChaos]

This guy still doubling down on it being RDNA1, guess they lied outright at the conference and spec sheet, lol

 

[Zanlee]

One thing I keep thinking about is, did the deep dive reveal the "Best features" Jim Ryan was talking about.

 

[mckmas8808]

At gpu peak, 10.2, its just under 20%, at cpu peak where the gpu is 9.2 its 32% increase

Ram, gpu, cpu all higher on the Xbox, an SSD is not going to be the new secret sauce. Its just nonsensical spin.

Why do people like you round down like this??? You say 10.2 TFs when you know it's 10.28 or basically 10.3 TFs. It's just weird and annoying.

 

[SonGoku]

XsX project Acoustics

I thought project Acoustics was an engine which can run on pc, xbone and sex

 

[Metroiddarks]

This guy still doubling down on it being RDNA1, guess they lied outright at the conference and spec sheet, lol

Some people are just

 

[ethomaz]

I thought project Acoustics was an engine which can run on pc, xbone and sex

It is a software engine.
Some Xbox fans it is the same than the hardware Tempest engine on PS5.

 

[David Ricardo]

One thing I keep thinking about is, did the deep dive reveal the "Best features" Jim Ryan was talking about.

Doesn't look like it.

 

[MARTYWOLF]

The hypocrisy is crazy when he was one of Mistermediax followers and would take his word as gospel. Bro shit is sickening

Actually he hated misterxmedia aha probably still does

 

[Gamernyc78]

Actually he hated misterxmedia aha probably still does

Nah thts his boy

 

[Gamerguy84]

Who is Chris Granell? What devs has this person spoken with that said the difference was "staggering"? The dude obviously follows Timdog.

I dont think there are developers out there that would call the difference between the two consoles staggering.

 

[kyliethicc]

One thing I keep thinking about is, did the deep dive reveal the "Best features" Jim Ryan was talking about.

I bet it did. Jim Ryan kinda... sucks. I can just tell by his vibe that he has doesn’t give shit about games, It’s just business. So I never expected much from that quote.

 

[ethomaz]

Who is Chris Granell? What devs has this person spoken with that said the difference was "staggering"? The dude obviously follows Timdog.

I dont think there are developers out there that would call the difference between the two consoles staggering.

He says he is a ex-Sony employee that now has a studio that works with real sports I guess.

 

[CJY]

I thought project Acoustics was an engine which can run on pc, xbone and sex

It is. It's just software.

 

[SlimySnake]

to me this confirms the fact that the ps5 gpu is probably 9.2 tflops and the variable clocks are mostly likely never hit.

i am expecting at least a 30% difference in resolution, and maybe even some ray tracing sacrifices.

looking at the simulating gonzalo chart, a 2.23 ghz gpu would be over 250w by itself on rdna 1.0. on rdna 2.0, thats 165w. thats the entire power consumption of the x1x minus 5w. this is before the cpu, before the ram, the ssd and other items on the board. we are looking at a 265w system. xbox on the other hand should come in around 100w for the gpu, and 200w for the entire system. 2.23 is a pipe dream.

no one in their right mind would release a console that consumes 65 more watts and offers 20% less performance. which is why they will probably average around 2.0 ghz and call it a day.

oh and before someone says im calling cerny a liar, well he did say that hitting 3.0 ghz in the cpu was impossible without variable clocks. we know thats a lie because ms was able to hit 3.6 ghz with fixed clocks. 3.8 with smt off. that entire conference was full of excuses and fud like this. we know from ms, going wide and slow-ish works so well they got to 12 tflops. he also said that 36 cu at faster clocks is better than 48 cu with lower clocks. there is simply no way thats true or amd wouldnt be releasing an 80 cu gpu.

dont believe everything he said in that presentation.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But remember the beginning of this gen was uncertain both played it safe and didn't want to take any losses
Not claiming $399 its certain, its a possibility

Like many people I said something similar way back.

Someone replied saying 2013 consoles were gimped because AMD chips back then were crap too. So for that price, that's all MS and Sony had to work with. 2020 stuff is much better.

But that $400 in 2013 gimped things too. The tech now should be a $500 console. Some people think it might even be more. I'm all for it. I know some people are on a budget, I'm good with spending an extra $100 or to get a better starting system.

Ya, there's going to be mid gen refreshes maybe again. So someone can argue it should be a modest cheaper system, and then if you want more power then keep buying refreshes. But if the base systems are good, they can last longer and core gamers don't feel forced they have to do a mid gen purchase.

 

[Zero707]

to me this confirms the fact that the ps5 gpu is probably 9.2 tflops and the variable clocks are mostly likely never hit.

i am expecting at least a 30% difference in resolution, and maybe even some ray tracing sacrifices.

looking at the simulating gonzalo chart, a 2.23 ghz gpu would be over 250w by itself on rdna 1.0. on rdna 2.0, thats 165w. thats the entire power consumption of the x1x minus 5w. this is before the cpu, before the ram, the ssd and other items on the board. we are looking at a 265w system. xbox on the other hand should come in around 100w for the gpu, and 200w for the entire system. 2.23 is a pipe dream.

no one in their right mind would release a console that consumes 65 more watts and offers 20% less performance. which is why they will probably average around 2.0 ghz and call it a day.

i think it is bizarre Cerny spent 30 minutes on SSD and 1 minute on RT and no mention to VRS in a show aimed to Devs!
also PS5 chip yields would interesting

 

[SlimySnake]

i think it is bizarre Cerny spent 30 minutes on SSD and 1 minute on RT and no mention to VRS in a show aimed to Devs!

i love the part where he says please dont rely on tflops comparisons, or even cu counts. then when on to talk about how rdna 2.0 cus are bigger. why would devs care about the size of the cus? clearly that was aimed at the mainstream public. also, it screams insecurity. its like the Streisand effect, he is telling us tflops and cu talk is literally dangeous but just him making excuses about it makes us talk about it.

another thing i noticed was how he says 36 ps5 cu = 58 ps4 cus even though the ps4 was on 28nm, and ps5 is on 7nm. they shouldve easily been able to include 72 ps4 cus or around 52 rdna 2.0 cus in a same size chip as the ps4. but they went with a smaller cheaper die to save money.

 

[SonGoku]

Well it seems like that was a mistake in this case. Devs may care about the audio, but gamers don't. These devs are out of touch with what gamers want.

It's bizarre that the biggest compliment the devs can give the PS5 is about audio.

Tempest Engine amounts to 1 CU worth of die space, nothing had to be sacrificed because of it
Why are you complaining about free 3D audio essentially?

 

[Zero707]

i love the part where he says please dont rely on tflops comparisons, or even cu counts. then when on to talk about how rdna 2.0 cus are bigger. why would devs care about the size of the cus? clearly that was aimed at the mainstream public. also, it screams insecurity. its like the Streisand effect, he is telling us tflops and cu talk is literally dangeous but just him making excuses about it makes us talk about it.

another thing i noticed was how he says 36 ps5 cu = 58 ps4 cus even though the ps4 was on 28nm, and ps5 is on 7nm. they shouldve easily been able to include 72 ps4 cus or around 52 rdna 2.0 cus in a same size chip as the ps4. but they went with a smaller cheaper die to save money.

imo with that RAM BW they definitely cut some costs in designing PS5 and i have feeling PS5 GPU is hybrid between RDNA 1 Featuers + RDNA 2 Features (i'm not saying PS5 is Not RDNA2 lol)
also when is ZEN 2 Moblie coming out ? we will get better image on how SMT will perform in real tasks because i think both consoles are below Ryzen 3700 level of performance

 

[SlimySnake]

Like many people I said something similar way back.

Someone replied saying 2013 consoles were gimped because AMD chips back then were crap too. So for that price, that's all MS and Sony had to work with. 2020 stuff is much better.

But that $400 in 2013 gimped things too. The tech now should be a $500 console. Some people think it might even be more. I'm all for it. I know some people are on a budget, I'm good with spending an extra $100 or to get a better starting system.

Ya, there's going to be mid gen refreshes maybe again. So someone can argue it should be a modest cheaper system, and then if you want more power then keep buying refreshes. But if the base systems are good, they can last longer and core gamers don't feel forced they have to do a mid gen purchase.

amd was unfairly blamed back then. i had a pc with a pretty affordable 4 core amd gpu running at 3.2 ghz that wouldve been much better than the jaguar shit they put in there. yes, it wouldve increase the tdp a bit but it was a 150w system. same goes for the gpu. had they gone with a somewhat decent cooling solution, we would be looking at a 2.3 tflops gpu using the same 18 cu chip. all under 200w. but they wanted to come in cheap and let amd take all the blame.

i was expecting the bom to be $500 this time around with sony taking a $50-80 loss they can now easily make up thanks to digital sales and ps+ subs.

but it seems they have cut corners every where. cpu, gpu, ssd size, ram speed. they couldnt have picked cheaper parts for each of their main console parts. i have no idea why a company that is so reliant on psn revenue would gimp their console like this. if anything they needed to come out on top to keep users in the eco system. i suspect we will see many gamers leave in droves which will cause their psn digital revenue to dip massively.

you bring a good point about midgen refreshes, i think part of the reason why they think they can release a weak $399 console is because they want to give users a reason to double dip. or worse they know hardcore sony fans will stick with them anyway so why not go after the casuals now and throw the hardcore a bone a few years later. if the sales are shit, i bet it comes in way before mid gen.

 

[SonGoku]

to me this confirms the fact that the ps5 gpu is probably 9.2 tflops and the variable clocks are mostly likely never hit.

Confirmation bias at work?

dont believe everything he said in that presentation.

"Im right because i think Cerny lied"

he did say that hitting 3.0 ghz in the cpu was impossible without variable clocks.

"Running the CPU at 3GHz was causing headaches with the old strategy"
Headaches=impossible?

. The tech now should be a $500 console

I agree but also think they are in a better position to take a short term loss

also PS5 chip yields would interesting

Smaller chips tend to have better yields, so that'd help

 

[Kumomeme]

Well it seems like that was a mistake in this case. Devs may care about the audio, but gamers don't. These devs are out of touch with what gamers want.

It's bizarre that the biggest compliment the devs can give the PS5 is about audio.

umm really? how about those gamers who had spend money for atleast decent audio experience...also for me its a win situation for gamers if devs able to satisfy them...sometime, gamers doesnt even know what they want..as long devs can release great result, gamers will be happy...in the end, devs is the one will stuck with the console more than gamers...if things going well, they might appreaciate it

 

[SlimySnake]

imo with that RAM BW they definitely cut some costs in designing PS5 and i have feeling PS5 GPU is hybrid between RDNA 1 Featuers + RDNA 2 Features (i'm not saying PS5 is Not RDNA2 lol)
also when is ZEN 2 Moblie coming out ? we will get better image on how SMT will perform in real tasks because i think both consoles are below Ryzen 3700 level of performance

the flute leak already showed us what to expect from these cpus. ryzen 1700x performance. roughly 80% of the ryzen 3700x. which is fine. consoles dont need the full 3700x anyway. cpus have gotten a massive upgrade and they will not be the bottleneck this gen.

i wouldnt be surprised if the ps5 is rdna 1.0 with rdna 2.0 features like ray tracing. the way cerny talked about helping amd with features and then warning us that 'certain features in the amd discrete gpus might not be in the ps5 because we didnt want them' came off very odd. very curious that he didnt mention vrs which should be baked into rdna 2.0. this is all very shady stuff. reminds me how panello used to talk about the xbox one gpu and how they had the best engineers because they invented directx.

we will see what happens. i wish i had a few demos to look at, but the more i watch that talk the worse i feel about the ps5. he comes across as a used car salesman trying to make excuses about why his car has worse performance in every respect, but has a very shady pitch about how the storage is so big, you could fit a dead body in the trunk. i just dont trust the guy atm.

 

[SlimySnake]

Confirmation bias at work?

"Im right because i think Cerny lied"

"Running the CPU at 3GHz was causing headaches with the old strategy"
Headaches=impossible?

he literally changed his approach because of that headache. to me, that implies it was clearly not working out for them.

either way, that line is bs because we know MS blew past that 3ghz aspirin limit hitting up to 3.8 ghz with simple vapor chamber cooling.

they dont get to make excuses like that because their competitor went with a simple wide and slow design, and managed to hit cpu clocks of 3.8 ghz with a 44% bigger gpu to boot, at half their power budget.

 

[megreotsugua]

One thing I keep thinking about is, did the deep dive reveal the "Best features" Jim Ryan was talking about.

I think that would be the OS features.

I can only imagine the kind of speed and features Sony can do if you can fill your entire RAM in a blink of an eye.

 

[Zero707]

Smaller chips tend to have better yields, so that'd help

not with the chip pushing 2.23 GHz clock speed
.
Amd and Nvidia can Avoid problems with Bad chips yields and use the chips in another card like RX5700 36CU and RX 5700 XT 40CU

 

[-kb-]

I think the PS5 reveal was meant to discuss the differences that the PS5 had between the competition and the PS4 not to discuss literally every feature that it supports. Theres a very good chance that the console has all RDNA2.0 features that are relevant to performance such as VRS even if they aren't mentioned.

We will know the details in time i think.