Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
what consistent reports are you referring to?
You have no idea what you just asked. God speed.
what consistent reports are you referring to?
Depends how much below 4K.It's been mentioned, but certain tech will likely push next-gen below 4K (which is fine with reconstruction), but would push the Lockhart sub-1080p.
It would also require extensive optimization due to its far reduced RAM, and worse CPU, which means results could be very inconsistent (devs reportedly dislike it). That reduced RAM also means it can't play old-gen games at X1X levels.
The ones that have followed it since it was announced.what consistent reports are you referring to?
Well, I'm glad you don't think RAM will be an issue, but that is still extra optimization required on top of everything else. Next-gen consoles were promising no need for LODs and fast access to memory, so that's a whole extra layer to be worked on for Lockhart alone.Depends how much below 4K.
If its 1440p then yeah. But lockhard should still do FHD on games that are 1800p on SeX.
And i highly doubt there are gonna be manu games below thay res, given the resolutions ONE X is allready hitting.
I also dont think less amount of RAM is gonna be big issue.
Alot of RAM in SeX is gonna be used on 4K textures which obviously wont be used in 1080p console.
Lots of assumptions there:
- It might do 1080p, but if UE5 and Minecraft RT are an indication, it will go lower than that
- Are people with just a 1080p TV really in the market for a next-gen console, at or near launch? Especially with no exclusives made for it?
- Are people on 1080p TVs really only buying 1080p machines? I know plenty of Pro/X users on HD screens
- In some regards, the X1X outperforms it, and will likely be cheaper and play the same games
- Devs still need to do extensive optimization for it, which is time and cost intensive on all projects; anything but "easy"
- Devs also heavily dislike it, and MS hasn't shown any confidence in the project
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so what the hell is the point in the teraflops thing everybody was talking about? It’s just to make games 4K? Does this mean every game has to be 4K on series x? Because what if you design something like the last of us part 2 and compromise frame rate and resolution to get the best graphics out of the hardware - what would that look like on xss?
I would say yes, 4k for the most part, at 60fps. If you have a large 4k tv, this does make a big difference in terms of visual fidelity. But let's say for the bedroom, where one has an older or smaller TV, that advantage starts to disappear as the TV is too small or older with 1080p resolution.
As far as frane rate goes its sort of equal for both.....most will target 60fps but both could settle at 30fps for some games ....
Once again, the biggest leap this Gen is not GPU but CPU and NVME storage where we see double digit multipliers in performance increases.People keep saying it can play everything on XSX but at 1080p? That’s the only compromise being made here? So all that crazy boost in power for the xsx is legit just to get games in 4K? That’s all those extra teraflops and what not actually accomplish? Skeptical
Do you mean that single post from Jason Schreier?The ones that have followed it since it was announced.
Well, I'm glad you don't think RAM will be an issue, but that is still extra optimization required on top of everything else.
Like i said, lack of 4K textures on Lockhart should make up deficit in RAM.
I look at it this way - comparing ONE S to X it has:
- noticable slower CPU (1.75 vs 2.3ghz)
- not only less RAM but also slower one (8GB DDR3 vs 12 GB DDR5)
- more than 4 times slower GPU (1.3 TF vs 6 TF).
And yet it still plays the same games.
The difference between Series X and Series S will be less significant, thats why im not really worried
Like i said, lack of 4K textures on Lockhart should make up deficit in RAM.
I look at it this way - comparing ONE S to X it has:
- noticable slower CPU (1.75 vs 2.3ghz)
- not only less RAM but also slower one (8GB DDR3 vs 12 GB DDR5)
- more than 4 times slower GPU (1.3 TF vs 6 TF).
And yet it still plays the same games.
The difference between Series X and Series S will be less significant, thats why im not really worried
I’m confused were there any games that were specifically designed to take advantage of the pro and Xbox one x? In ways other than resolution? The question remains - designing a game for specific fixed hardware without having to think of anything else allows you to do certain things doesn’t it? Isn’t that the whole point of console graphics. I’m sure the one x and pro could produce better graphics than we have seen if the OG’s were out of the picture.Like i said, lack of 4K textures on Lockhart should make up deficit in RAM.
I look at it this way - comparing ONE S to X it has:
- noticable slower CPU (1.75 vs 2.3ghz)
- not only less RAM but also slower one (8GB DDR3 vs 12 GB DDR5)
- more than 4 times slower GPU (1.3 TF vs 6 TF).
And yet it still plays the same games.
The difference between Series X and Series S will be less significant, thats why im not really worried
I think a lot of that is due to the CPU, even the good GPU in the X can't make up for the Jaguar it has to work with.Do you think you got the most out of X1X and PS4 Pro? I do not think we have, but they were just stop gap consoles... problem is different if it is a brand new gen.
This doesn’t answer what I’ve been asking the rest of the thread - If a game is specifically taking advantage of everything in a systems power at the expense of frame rate and resolution, etc (such as Last of Us) - how the hell will it work on something like the series SOnce again, the biggest leap this Gen is not GPU but CPU and NVME storage where we see double digit multipliers in performance increases.
Well that’s fucking lame. I ain’t paying 2-300 bucks more for shit IDGAF about. I’ll just buy Sony - I’m sure they’ll make a game that takes advantage of their hardware and may come at the expense of resolution and frame rate but no one will care because it looks amazing (ie the whole last cycle of ps4 games)High frame rates at high resolutions
Well that’s fucking lame. I ain’t paying 2-300 bucks more for shit IDGAF about. I’ll just buy Sony - I’m sure they’ll make a game that takes advantage of their hardware and may come at the expense of resolution and frame rate but no one will care because it looks amazing (ie the whole last cycle of ps4 games)
If I say so what? Does that actually not make sense to you?If you say so man, if you say so.
If I say so what? Does that actually not make sense to you?
I don’t care that the only benefit would be resolution and frame rate - which I don’t know a single person in my friends group who thinks about either of those things when playing a game on TV for a bit - it’s disappointing. I wanted this Xbox to actually do more than that but if it’s going to be held back from reaching it’s true full potential because it has to meet a certain resolution or frame rate to work in any capacity on the series s that kinda sucks does it not?It makes sense. You don't care and you will buy Sony. What do you want me to say to that?
As a Software Developer myself, this amount of comments seems so odd.
Also I'm a bit hungover but isn't this code saying:
If consoleType is Dante, push the Anaconda profile into the object array... Why would you do this? Surely you're be wanting to push the Lockhart profile?
The code after the else if makes more sense:
If consoleType is Scorpio, push Scorpio into the Object array.
Is anyone actually saying 4tf will outperform 10tf? That's ridiculous if so. But seems to me this is an exaggerated argument.
I don’t care that the only benefit would be resolution and frame rate - which I don’t know a single person in my friends group who thinks about either of those things when playing a game on TV for a bit - it’s disappointing. I wanted this Xbox to actually do more than that but if it’s going to be held back from reaching it’s true full potential because it has to meet a certain resolution or frame rate to work in any capacity on the series s that kinda sucks does it not?
Well at what point would an engine be held back then? So could you technically play every PS4 game on ps3 or every Xbox one game on Xbox 360?Nah, it won’t be held back because that’s not how game engines work.
The RX 580 is a 1080p/60fps GPU. At current-gen console settings it can do 1440p, and even 4K/30fps as seen on X1X, but at Ultra settings in games designed for 4K on the XSX, the power of the system is designed for 1080p.Does it show frame rate for RX580 @ 1440?
I'll be getting the Series X for myself and my wife, and then the Series S for the kids.
I'm hoping the Series S at least shoots for 1440 and 60fps.
Well at what point would an engine be held back then? So could you technically play every PS4 game on ps3 or every Xbox one game on Xbox 360?
You couldn’t play a PS4 game on a PS3 because the systems have different architectures. In theory you could run an XB1 game on a 360 at lower frame rate and resolution.
The 360 is PowerPC as well so that wouldn't work.
How does TLOU2 run on PS4 vs. PS4 Pro?This doesn’t answer what I’ve been asking the rest of the thread - If a game is specifically taking advantage of everything in a systems power at the expense of frame rate and resolution, etc (such as Last of Us) - how the hell will it work on something like the series S
How does TLOU2 run on PS4 vs. PS4 Pro?
How does TLOU2 run on PS4 vs. PS4 Pro?
No chance they can fit 4tf of power in a handheld or tablet and still be affordable .I'd like if this turned out to be a handheld/tablet.
Pretty similarly. It's actual a more stable frame rate on ps4.How does TLOU2 run on PS4 vs. PS4 Pro?
Although I want better framerates I don't care anything like as much about the resolution. I'd prefer XSX/PS5 to be targeting 1440p-1800p most of the time and not waste their resources on 4K. 4K should be about as common as 1080p during the 360/PS3 gen. I certainly don't want most of the games to be 4K versions of Lockhart games.I don’t care that the only benefit would be resolution and frame rate - which I don’t know a single person in my friends group who thinks about either of those things when playing a game on TV for a bit - it’s disappointing. I wanted this Xbox to actually do more than that but if it’s going to be held back from reaching it’s true full potential because it has to meet a certain resolution or frame rate to work in any capacity on the series s that kinda sucks does it not?
You need it for designing games. This is the difference in memory usage in games based on resolution alone, one is 2560x1080 and the other on 5120x2160 (basicaly UW versions of 1080p and 4K).
GTA 5 - ~2.1GB difference
MGS5 - ~2.3GB difference
NFSH - 3.7GB difference
Ryse - ~2GB difference
ROTTR - ~2GB difference (with HIGH textures, VH takes ~7GB on 2560x1080!)
Framebuffer alone is usually not jumping more than 3GB. RAM is unified on consoles so if devs want to use low resolution with some fancy image reconstruction (like DLSS) to have more main memory available they are fucked on the spot by XSS that cuts RAM by 6GB, they will have to use PS3 quality textures here
LOD is still there just more automatic. I thought UE5 is highly scalable engine intended for streaming assets. I suspect the lower textures and 1080p should be taken care of by the engine.Well, I'm glad you don't think RAM will be an issue, but that is still extra optimization required on top of everything else. Next-gen consoles were promising no need for LODs and fast access to memory, so that's a whole extra layer to be worked on for Lockhart alone.
Plus, the UE5 tech demo pushes it sub-1080p, the Minecraft RT one pushes it below 720p. It's rather dire.
1080p on base PS4 and 1440p on PRO reaching 4k via checkerboard rendering. Base PS4 have more stable FPS in some case in comparison with PRO, but both are 30 fps cap.
That sounds kinda smart, Sony can easily counter that by making PS Now available on every TV/cellphone they sell going forward and having your existing game purchased in PS5/PS4 accessible on it. Sony still having some cards to show, the festival hasn't finished yet. I can see another strike one week after the xbox event by Santa Monica and other studios.
this..massive plot twist if lockhart is handheld....or imagine sony release similliar low performance of ps5 but in form of psvita2I'd like if this turned out to be a handheld/tablet.
I mean the reporting from Jason Schreier and others in talk with devs, and actual devs talking abut it, which has accompanied every step of the Lockhart, from its inception, to cancellation, to revival.Do you mean that single post from Jason Schreier?
RAM amount is something that will require a bunch of optimization, given it's halved amount. If its setup it's as weird as XSX, with a unified pool of two speeds, it'll be even worse. As I mentioned, this is all work that UE5 was supposed to eliminate, but will still need to happen not avoid pushing the Lockhart sub-HD.Like i said, lack of 4K textures on Lockhart should make up deficit in RAM.
I look at it this way - comparing ONE S to X it has:
- noticable slower CPU (1.75 vs 2.3ghz)
- not only less RAM but also slower one (8GB DDR3 vs 12 GB DDR5)
- more than 4 times slower GPU (1.3 TF vs 6 TF).
And yet it still plays the same games.
The difference between Series X and Series S will be less significant, thats why im not really worried
"Automatic LOD", or virtualized geometry, requires a lot of GPU power which the Lockhart won't have. As I explained, the UE5 demo would scale to 1.47M5 resolution ("similar to A4 paper format "). Since that can't happen, a traditional and lenghtier LOD approach will still need to happen, on top of the work for XSX.LOD is still there just more automatic. I thought UE5 is highly scalable engine intended for streaming assets. I suspect the lower textures and 1080p should be taken care of by the engine.
I'm not saying you should disbelief Schreier, I'm saying there aren't that many reports on devs disliking Lockhart, so I'm not so sure we should automatically belief that this is an industry wide disliking.I mean the reporting from Jason Schreier and others in talk with devs, and actual devs talking abut it, which has accompanied every step of the Lockhart, from its inception, to cancellation, to revival.
I'd be more than willling to disbelief him specifically, but
1) He has proven beyond a doubt he has talks with devs
2) Devs have mirrored the same sentiment
3) The console it's a butchered XSX, so it makes sense devs wouldn't like extra optimization work
4) None of you have brought up why this piece of info would be in any way untrustworthy
Ultimately, were MS to reveal the thing, we could squash these doubts. As things stand, they've shown near 0 confidence in Lockhart.
So you're providing nothing at all to the discussion, except disbelieving one of the sources for no reason. How insightfulI'm not saying you should disbelief Schreier, I'm saying there aren't that many reports on devs disliking Lockhart, so I'm not so sure we should automatically belief that this is an industry wide disliking.
Perhaps, but it doesn't take much reasoning that a dev rolling out 1 game, but needing to cater it to an additional system is added work. No one likes added work.I'm not saying you should disbelief Schreier, I'm saying there aren't that many reports on devs disliking Lockhart, so I'm not so sure we should automatically belief that this is an industry wide disliking.
Not what I said at all, I literally said that I don't disbelieve the report... I'm saying Schreier reports it like this for clicks, and that you are exaggerating. Because we barely have any info on Lockhart, and barely any devs that commented that they disliked it. Lockhart will make sure that your game will be available for more people. Since most developers are also developing their games for PC when developing it for Xbox, there really isn't much difference with optimizing it from XSX to Lockhart as from high-end PC to low-end.So you're providing nothing at all to the discussion, except disbelieving one of the sources for no reason. How insightful
I agree, it's definitely extra work. But there's a difference between devs saying they really dislike the console and developers understanding the reason for the console and taking on the extra work since the barrier of entry will be lower for people which means more people will play your games. Tulipanzo makes it sound as if Lockhart is hated industry wide and shouldn't exist.Perhaps, but it doesn't take much reasoning that a dev rolling out 1 game, but needing to cater it to an additional system is added work. No one likes added work.
On PC that my fly where the user takes responsibility, on a locked system asset optimization, lods, rendering approaches and resulting QA testing work will be required = time & money. You can wind back and balance the time & money by essentially doing a less than optimal slap job vs it were all invested into the one target. No different to current mid-gen refreshes.
One could argue the benefit in business terms, instead of selling 10M XsX consoles, this approach may results in 5M XsX + 10M XsL = 15M total platform sales and bigger market for the platform.
But on the flipside, the path of least resistance may result in more 3rd party Sony exclusives due to 1 sku instead of 3. This also hinges on market-share and the bean-counters counting beans.
Again, you don't disbelieve the report, yet assume it's been written for clicks. Your assumption here is false, because he made those comments on Era and Twitter. In the article he wrote devs complained MS had been "uncommunicative".Not what I said at all, I literally said that I don't disbelieve the report... I'm saying Schreier reports it like this for clicks, and that you are exaggerating. Because we barely have any info on Lockhart, and barely any devs that commented that they disliked it. Lockhart will make sure that your game will be available for more people. Since most developers are also developing their games for PC when developing it for Xbox, there really isn't much difference with optimizing it from XSX to Lockhart as from high-end PC to low-end.
Sony outside of Consoles is irrelevant. Sony smartphones and TV division has significantly declined over the years. To counter Microsoft, Sony will need to partner with other device makers, so far they haven't done so.
So far Sony has offered no response to XCloud being part of Instagram, Facebook Gaming or the partnership with Samsung.