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[Deleted member 471617]

Well, that is a lot of assumptions. Factually, the GDK was available to developers in November 2019 at the very least and development and testing was available in February. As far as what features were in each release after that, we don't know and anything said about that is pure speculation. What we have in that document was leaked from behind Microsoft's development program which is not publicly accessible.

As far as devs using the XDK instead of the GDK. That is false. The Dirt 5 developer referenced it in the video above that Agnostic2020 posted. The June 2020 document shows that release is required for certification and publication to retail.

AMD's PC GPU release and announcement schedule doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as Xbox is concerned Probably has a heck of a lot more to do with Nvidia than Xbox. But this is trying to connect dots for its own sake. There isn't any factual information to draw conclusions from. Just more speculation

What isn't speculation is what the devs are saying and frankly, it doesn't jive with forum comments, unsurprisingly. I expect the development of both consoles will continue to mature over the course of the gen as they always do.

They had the retail GDK since June. Having the GDK for testing and development before hand doesn't mean anything because again, they didn't have the full feature set of RDNA 2. You can't implement any of it if you don't have access to it.

The Dirt 5 developer said he had the GDK for several months but was only able to implement Variable Rate Shading because again, they didn't have the time to use anything else because everything else was given to them late into development. The Dirt 5 developer also said that they're adding Ray Tracing post launch but have thus far only confirmed it for PC.

It's not that im doubting or questioning all that other stuff. It's just doesn't matter because no developer can implement features and use tools that they themselves either A) don't have access to at all or B) have access to but only for a few months at best and when you factor in working from home, it's more like weeks instead of months compared if they were all in their respective studios and thus, don't have the time needed to implement any of it.

Not only that but what the Dirt 5 developer has access to and how much time he has with that access has literally nothing to do with every other developer. What if Ubisoft didn't get access until June but the Dirt 5 developer had access since let's say, March? That's a three month difference, more so considering they're working from home.

I definitely agree that the development kits and tools will improve and mature as the generation progresses like they always do.

 

[sinnergy]

They had the retail GDK since June. Having the GDK for testing and development before hand doesn't mean anything because again, they didn't have the full feature set of RDNA 2. You can't implement any of it if you don't have access to it.

The Dirt 5 developer said he had the GDK for several months but was only able to implement Variable Rate Shading because again, they didn't have the time to use anything else because everything else was given to them late into development. The Dirt 5 developer also said that they're adding Ray Tracing post launch but have thus far only confirmed it for PC.

It's not that im doubting or questioning all that other stuff. It's just doesn't matter because no developer can implement features and use tools that they themselves either A) don't have access to at all or B) have access to but only for a few months at best and when you factor in working from home, it's more like weeks instead of months compared if they were all in their respective studios and thus, don't have the time needed to implement any of it.

Not only that but what the Dirt 5 developer has access to and how much time he has with that access has literally nothing to do with every other developer. What if Ubisoft didn't get access until June but the Dirt 5 developer had access since let's say, March? That's a three month difference, more so considering they're working from home.

I definitely agree that the development kits and tools will improve and mature as the generation progresses like they always do.

Your case is sound but will not find agreement here ... gaf thinks consoles run a fairy dust , and won’t need fully functional SDKs. Or developers having learning curves , all are Carmacks, didn’t you get the memo?

 

[Topher]

They had the retail GDK since June. Having the GDK for testing and development before hand doesn't mean anything because again, they didn't have the full feature set of RDNA 2. You can't implement any of it if you don't have access to it.

How do you know what they had access to or when? How do you know it is all or nothing? Are you a game developer?

 

[Deleted member 471617]

How do you know what they had access to or when? How do you know it is all or nothing? Are you a game developer?

Because Microsoft has said it. Other developers have said it. Do you really think that Microsoft wanted to actually make a statement about why the multi-platform games are at best equal but more so, slightly worse than the competition despite Series X being far more capable? Of course not.

All you have to do is look at the games. Outside of the few games I mentioned in a previous, do any of the other games utilize any of the RDNA 2 features? As far I know and see, no they don't. Just look at those games as well as what you've seen from Microsoft the entire year and listen to what everyone has basically confirmed repeatedly.

The Dirt 5 developer said that he had the GDK for several months but only implemented Variable Rate Shading. What happened to all the other features? They didn't have time to implement any of it unless they wanted to delay their game which wasn't going to happen especially with Take Two acquiring them in the process.

I'll make it even simpler.....as far as im aware, not a single Microsoft first party game is using GDK. They're all listed under XDK on Series X. Some internal studios don't even access to the full GDK yet. Now you may wonder why first parties don't have the GDK but some third parties do and well, the answer to that is simple - third parties are continuously releasing games. First parties haven't. Gears Tactics is a PC port using the XDK. They literally have nothing until mid-2021 and that may even be generous.

Again, it's just what it is. You don't have to believe it if you want to. I believe it all because I look over everything, I can see it. A blind person can see it. Does it suck? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yes. Should Microsoft have had their shit finalized? No. Only because if you're waiting on someone else (in this case, AMD) to finalize something that you need in order to finalize your own shit, you can't do a damn thing but wait for them to finish.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Because Microsoft has said it. Other developers have said it. Do you really think that Microsoft wanted to actually make a statement about why the multi-platform games are at best equal but more so, slightly worse than the competition despite Series X being far more capable? Of course not.

All you have to do is look at the games. Outside of the few games I mentioned in a previous, do any of the other games utilize any of the RDNA 2 features? As far I know and see, no they don't. Just look at those games as well as what you've seen from Microsoft the entire year and listen to what everyone has basically confirmed repeatedly.

The Dirt 5 developer said that he had the GDK for several months but only implemented Variable Rate Shading. What happened to all the other features? They didn't have time to implement any of it unless they wanted to delay their game which wasn't going to happen especially with Take Two acquiring them in the process.

I'll make it even simpler.....as far as im aware, not a single Microsoft first party game is using GDK. They're all listed under XDK on Series X. Some internal studios don't even access to the full GDK yet. Now you may wonder why first parties don't have the GDK but some third parties do and well, the answer to that is simple - third parties are continuously releasing games. First parties haven't. Gears Tactics is a PC port using the XDK. They literally have nothing until mid-2021 and that may even be generous.

Again, it's just what it is. You don't have to believe it if you want to. I believe it all because I look over everything, I can see it. A blind person can see it. Does it suck? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yes. Should Microsoft have had their shit finalized? No. Only because if you're waiting on someone else (in this case, AMD) to finalize something that you need in order to finalize your own shit, you can't do a damn thing but wait for them to finish.

Cause xsx is not far more capable what so ever. That's why . Its time to face reality bud and move on from denial and bargaining phase of grief that ms took its fans on . Hope u have a fast recovery to acceptance. Cheers

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Cause xsx is not far more capable what so ever. That's why . Its time to face reality bud and move on from denial and bargaining phase of grief that ms took its fans on . Hope u have a fast recovery to acceptance. Cheers

I will own both consoles like I always do so if you mean accept more games for me to play, then I absolutely will. Take care.

 

[Topher]

Because Microsoft has said it. Other developers have said it. Do you really think that Microsoft wanted to actually make a statement about why the multi-platform games are at best equal but more so, slightly worse than the competition despite Series X being far more capable? Of course not.

All you have to do is look at the games. Outside of the few games I mentioned in a previous, do any of the other games utilize any of the RDNA 2 features? As far I know and see, no they don't. Just look at those games as well as what you've seen from Microsoft the entire year and listen to what everyone has basically confirmed repeatedly.

The Dirt 5 developer said that he had the GDK for several months but only implemented Variable Rate Shading. What happened to all the other features? They didn't have time to implement any of it unless they wanted to delay their game which wasn't going to happen especially with Take Two acquiring them in the process.

I'll make it even simpler.....as far as im aware, not a single Microsoft first party game is using GDK. They're all listed under XDK on Series X. Some internal studios don't even access to the full GDK yet. Now you may wonder why first parties don't have the GDK but some third parties do and well, the answer to that is simple - third parties are continuously releasing games. First parties haven't. Gears Tactics is a PC port using the XDK. They literally have nothing until mid-2021 and that may even be generous.

Again, it's just what it is. You don't have to believe it if you want to. I believe it all because I look over everything, I can see it. A blind person can see it. Does it suck? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yes. Should Microsoft have had their shit finalized? No. Only because if you're waiting on someone else (in this case, AMD) to finalize something that you need in order to finalize your own shit, you can't do a damn thing but wait for them to finish.

If it is a matter of "believing" then there is nothing really factual in what you are saying. This all just speculation on your part as I said. That's fine. Nothing wrong with you putting out your guesses along with everyone else's. I was curious to know if you had actual information or this was your personal take on all this. I have my answer.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

If it is a matter of "believing" then there is nothing really factual in what you are saying. This all just speculation on your part as I said. That's fine. Nothing wrong with you putting out your guesses along with everyone else's. I was curious to know if you had actual information or this was your personal take on all this. I have my answer.

The actual information comes from Microsoft, the Dirt 5 developers, Digital Foundry and a bunch of others. It's not me saying any of it. Instead, im just repeating what they have all said repeatedly. If you want to believe them or not, that's entirely up to you.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The actual information comes from Microsoft, the Dirt 5 developers, Digital Foundry and a bunch of others. It's not me saying any of it. Instead, im just repeating what they have all said repeatedly. If you want to believe them or not, that's entirely up to you.

Don't include dirt 5 dev as he said gdk has been amazing and best xbox dev kit ever. So it definitely doesn't support what u say .

 

[Topher]

The actual information comes from Microsoft, the Dirt 5 developers, Digital Foundry and a bunch of others. It's not me saying any of it. Instead, im just repeating what they have all said repeatedly. If you want to believe them or not, that's entirely up to you.

I shouldn't have to believe you then. When did Microsoft lay out specifically what features of the GDK would be available to developers and when? When did Microsoft or the developers explain that pre-June 2020 GDK development could not implement any features until all the features were available?

These are very specific claims you have made. Show me the quotes.

 

[Gudji]

- GDK and tools are in it's infancy, not yet showing it's full potential
- Devkits were sent late to the devs
- New architecture meaning MS needed a bigger change in tools and API's than sony since they're using the same PS4 architecture
- Full RDNA2 not in use yet (sony will be in shambles once they start using the full features)

What other excuses should I add to the list to justify PS5 performing better?

 

[azertydu91]

The actual information comes from Microsoft, the Dirt 5 developers, Digital Foundry and a bunch of others. It's not me saying any of it. Instead, im just repeating what they have all said repeatedly. If you want to believe them or not, that's entirely up to you.

Did you link anything ? That would be a good starting point.
Because the people you are arguing with did.
I may have missed your sourced posts though.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Ps5 doesn't have "infinity cache" AMD show clearly in their slides what that is 128mb of L3 Cache, that's a massive amount of die space and no console has it.

I didn't bring PS5 into this, I'm not saying that the PS5 customisations are better or worse, I can't because we don't know as we haven't seen a die shot of the APU and neither have you. But you're pointing to "results" when we haven't seen a game on Xbox actually use these features yet. So your point is irrelevant.

It's entirely possible PS5 has some form of infinity cache that doesn't look like what's on desktop Navi. I'm also leaning no but we could be wrong.

PS5's GPU speed + coherency engine + cache scrubbers = matches and sometimes exceeds Series X own GPU performance?

Infinity cache could also be part of that equation. Even if not, something about the cache structure itself could have been changed. Someone out there must be working on a die shot.

What we do know is that the combination of coherency engine and cache scrubbers gives the same end result as infinity cache. By having a fine-grain eviction of cache data, you reduce GPU stalling and re-fetching of data which eats memory bandwidth too. This reduces GPU overhead which allows PS5 to actualize its theoretical performance much better than Series X. PS5 is importing and exporting data faster and no other GPU/console on the market has this kind of specialized hardware. I'm not trying to claim it's the most powerful thing out there, but it's clear there's a level of efficiency not seen anywhere else.

Also, I do believe PS5 has its L3 cache on the CPU unified.

 

[M1chl]

I think it's pretty clear, that at least in this last 2 pages, people are arguing in a good faith, which for those who are saying it's the tools™ does not mean that MS gets free pass. And tools mean performance stack, something which Playstation really does not have to deal with, because performance it's like 10x more on the individual devs on Sony's than on MS side. Hell even ability to turn basically every console to dev kit should tell you something. Because of that layer of abstraction where MS paired with lackluster AMD compiler devs could fuck it up. Nobody is saying that XSX is going to perform 20% better than PS5 at the end of this gen, however it's at least feasible to comprehend, that they should at least be neck/neck, not this mess...

 

[DeepEnigma]

“Tools” are starting to sound a lot like 2013’s “wait for DX12 and wait for the Power of the Cloud.”

MS better hope in their case, the results aren’t the same when the dust settles as well.

My mindset is in the “eh, we’ll see” approach.

 

[Topher]

I think it's pretty clear, that at least in this last 2 pages, people are arguing in a good faith, which for those who are saying it's the tools™ does not mean that MS gets free pass. And tools mean performance stack, something which Playstation really does not have to deal with, because performance it's like 10x more on the individual devs on Sony's than on MS side. Hell even ability to turn basically every console to dev kit should tell you something. Because of that layer of abstraction where MS paired with lackluster AMD compiler devs could fuck it up. Nobody is saying that XSX is going to perform 20% better than PS5 at the end of this gen, however it's at least feasible to comprehend, that they should at least be neck/neck, not this mess...

Yeah, I'd speculate that in the end PS5 and XSX will be closer than most anticipate as well. Hopefully both consoles will get steady 60fps frame rates across most games and then the real comparisons will only exist in the levels of dynamic resolution. At that point, it is a wash in my mind as long as most of the time games stay above 1440p. I certainly can't tell differences above that with my PC looking at a still image. Variations at that level on the fly? Not with these eyes anyway.

 

[M1chl]

Yeah, I'd speculate that in the end PS5 and XSX will be closer than most anticipate as well. Hopefully both consoles will get steady 60fps frame rates across most games and then the real comparisons will only exist in the levels of dynamic resolution. At that point, it is a wash in my mind as long as most of the time games stay above 1440p. I certainly can't tell differences above that with my PC looking at a still image. Variations at that level on the fly? Not with these eyes anyway.

After all their potential really does not count, when you have to shell out money, when are they ready to sell them. Not after they fix all those things. So I am fine with MS getting shit on. However I choose XSX and basically, due to the fact that my brother (like a real one) has PS5, I was able to evaluate, that both consoles this time are absolutely amazing (at the price). Not sure about XSS, but will see.

 

[DForce]

AMD were on the statement, it specifically says these two words " hardware support", DX12 isn't hardware.

Read my comment again.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Not only that but what the Dirt 5 developer has access to and how much time he has with that access has literally nothing to do with every other developer. What if Ubisoft didn't get access until June but the Dirt 5 developer had access since let's say, March? That's a three month difference, more so considering they're working from home.

I am fairly sure UbiSoft is higher in the devkit priority list than code masters...

Either way, MS did not deliver... at best it could be temporary (I doubt it, it sounds like excuses, like MS is always constantly giving excuses and under delivering).

 

[MasterCornholio]

Either way, MS did not deliver... at best it could be temporary (I doubt it, it sounds like excuses, like MS is always constantly giving excuses and under delivering).

That's the part that bothers me the most.

So Microsoft knew that they had the most powerful console and they thought they would have the superior version of multiplats.

But then all of a sudden it ends up not being true and at best they are on par with the PS5.

How did they not know that this was going to happen?

They have plenty of connections with outlets like Digital Foundry and good relationships with many developers. How is it possible that they didn't know this before the system launched?

Makes me wonder if there was some sort of really bad communication between the marketing department and the people who are knowledgeable on the tech.

Just seems a bit strange to me.

 

[Md Ray]

He might be telling the truth, maybe he isn't. But use your brain.

Richard from DF did say that some devs are indeed happy with the GDK situation and some are not. Maybe Dirt 5 devs are from those who are happy with it.

It's not all doom and gloom situation with EVERY single dev when it comes to the tools.

This whole tools being behind is blown way out of proportion by xbox fanboys to damage control everytime SX is reported to have worse perf than PS5. Mind you Series consoles aren't like PS3.

Use your brain.

 

[Bogroll]

Richard from DF did say that some devs are indeed happy with the GDK situation and some are not. Maybe Dirt 5 devs are from those who are happy with it.

It's not all doom and gloom situation with EVERY single dev when it comes to the tools.

This whole tools being behind is blown way out of proportion by xbox fanboys to damage control everytime SX is reported to have worse perf than PS5. Mind you Series consoles aren't like PS3.

Use your brain.

Yawn

 

[kruis]

That's the part that bothers me the most.

So Microsoft knew that they had the most powerful console and they thought they would have the superior version of multiplats.

But then all of a sudden it ends up not being true and at best they are on par with the PS5.

How did they not know that this was going to happen?

They have plenty of connections with outlets like Digital Foundry and good relationships with many developers. How is it possible that they didn't know this before the system launched?

Makes me wonder if there was some sort of really bad communication between the marketing department and the people who are knowledgeable on the tech.

Just seems a bit strange to me.

My guess is that MS probably knew beforehand the PS5 was punching above its weight, but they must have also believed that XSX would still beat the PS5 in benchmarks, even if the difference was less than the 20% Tflops difference would suggest. MS may have had insiders in a few companies, but probably not at all of them, so seeing the Xbox lose out to the PS5 in just about every direct comparison must have been a nasty surprise.

I think that Sony may have been surprised as well - otherwise the PS marketing team would not let MS get away with the "most powerful console in the world" slogan for so long if they were confident the PS5 would outperform the XSX.

 

[Leyasu]

Cause xsx is not far more capable what so ever. That's why . Its time to face reality bud and move on from denial and bargaining phase of grief that ms took its fans on . Hope u have a fast recovery to acceptance. Cheers

So, after all the complaining that cross gen games would hold everything back for the next couple years, what you and the others are now saying is that these same cross gen games are so potent, that the XsX can't even run them?

Simple question, yes or no?

 

[MasterCornholio]

My guess is that MS probably knew beforehand the PS5 was punching above its weight, but they must have also believed that XSX would still beat the PS5 in benchmarks, even if the difference was less than the 20% Tflops difference would suggest. MS may have had insiders in a few companies, but probably not at all, so seeing the Xbox lose out to the PS5 in just about every direct comparison must have been a nasty surprise.

I think that Sony may have been surprised as well - otherwise the PS marketing team would not let MS get away with the "most powerful console in the world" slogan for so long if they were confident the PS5 would outperform the XSX.

It could be possible that Microsoft looked at the GitHub leaks and thought that Sony couldn't match them with a 9.2TF system. Unfortunately for them GitHub was missing a ton of information regarding the PS5s hardware. Information like the hardware customizations and the final clock speed for example. That could be why they were caught off guard.

 

[Tripolygon]

So, after all the complaining that cross gen games would hold everything back for the next couple years, what you and the others are now saying is that these same cross gen games are so potent, that the XsX can't even run them?

Simple question, yes or no?

A game made with last gen in mind will not look as good as a game made with next gen only in mind. That speaks nothing of the game's performance on a given hardware, it only speaks of the scope and scale of the game in general and in terms of certain graphical features and technologies. This is not a very difficult concept to understand.

Both games would be pushing the same hardware in different ways despite one looking lightyears ahead of the other. Not to speak of the wealth of knowledge gained over time. We have reached a point where for the most part games are not employing new techniques, they are dialing certain things up to 11 and in some cases adding RT.

If you take a cross gen game running on PS5 with all the setting turned up to the max and tried to make it run on PS4, it would be running at 5FPS or probably not run at all.

 

[Leyasu]

A game made with last gen in mind will not look as good as a game made with next gen only in mind. That speaks nothing of the game's performance on a given hardware, it only speaks of the scope and scale of the game in general and in terms of certain graphical features and technologies. This is not a very difficult concept to understand.

Both games would be pushing the same hardware in different ways despite one looking lightyears ahead of the other. Not to speak of the wealth of knowledge gained over time. We have reached a point where or the most part games are not employing new techniques, they are dialing certain things up to 11 and in some cases adding RT.

If you take a cross gen game running on PS5 with all the setting turned up to the max and tried to make it run on PS4, it would be running at 5FPS or probably not run at all.

Thanks for the reply. Although I am well aware of what you wrote.

I am hoping that the person I quoted or one his many friends on here would come in and give a simple answer to my question. Because there is a lot of nonsense being written on here, and some people need to explain where they are coming from.

By the way, those photos look fucking amazing. TLoU2 running BC on the PS5 or RDR2 on the PS5 or XsX look better than any of the launch games running in quality mode.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

My guess is that MS probably knew beforehand the PS5 was punching above its weight, but they must have also believed that XSX would still beat the PS5 in benchmarks, even if the difference was less than the 20% Tflops difference would suggest. MS may have had insiders in a few companies, but probably not at all of them, so seeing the Xbox lose out to the PS5 in just about every direct comparison must have been a nasty surprise.

I think that Sony may have been surprised as well - otherwise the PS marketing team would not let MS get away with the "most powerful console in the world" slogan for so long if they were confident the PS5 would outperform the XSX.

I don’t think either side was surprised.

MS probably knew they would beat Sony in paper specs and closed the books on their marketing plan.

 

[Tripolygon]

Thanks for the reply. Although I am well aware of what you wrote.

I am hoping that the person I quoted or one his many friends on here would come in and give a simple answer to my question. Because there is a lot of nonsense being written on here, and some people need to explain where they are coming from.

By the way, those photos look fucking amazing. TLoU2 running BC on the PS5 or RDR2 on the PS5 or XsX look better than any of the launch games running in quality mode.

This is not directed at you personally, but just a general thought.

Another aspect that is often overlooked is economical feasibility. Still using TLOU, would it be more economical to just make the game for PS3 then scale up minor things like resolution rather than make the game on PS4 with all the amazing graphics and features, then start cutting things out to make it run on PS3?

Imagine TLOU Part 2 being made to run on PS3 as well and think what has to be cut out or dialed wayyyyyyyy down in order for it to run on PS3? The amazing high resolution textures, animation, high quality audio, lot of technologies that can't run on PS3 GPU, some of the big levels have to be shrunk in size or outright cut out, the amount details put in everything.

TLOU part 2 will not fit on a launch PS3 60GB or 80GB model, you would have to buy a bigger HDD to make it fit and it will come on 4 BD Disc. Lol

 

[M1chl]

Because Microsoft has said it. Other developers have said it. Do you really think that Microsoft wanted to actually make a statement about why the multi-platform games are at best equal but more so, slightly worse than the competition despite Series X being far more capable? Of course not.

All you have to do is look at the games. Outside of the few games I mentioned in a previous, do any of the other games utilize any of the RDNA 2 features? As far I know and see, no they don't. Just look at those games as well as what you've seen from Microsoft the entire year and listen to what everyone has basically confirmed repeatedly.

The Dirt 5 developer said that he had the GDK for several months but only implemented Variable Rate Shading. What happened to all the other features? They didn't have time to implement any of it unless they wanted to delay their game which wasn't going to happen especially with Take Two acquiring them in the process.

I'll make it even simpler.....as far as im aware, not a single Microsoft first party game is using GDK. They're all listed under XDK on Series X. Some internal studios don't even access to the full GDK yet. Now you may wonder why first parties don't have the GDK but some third parties do and well, the answer to that is simple - third parties are continuously releasing games. First parties haven't. Gears Tactics is a PC port using the XDK. They literally have nothing until mid-2021 and that may even be generous.

Again, it's just what it is. You don't have to believe it if you want to. I believe it all because I look over everything, I can see it. A blind person can see it. Does it suck? Yes. Is it disappointing? Yes. Should Microsoft have had their shit finalized? No. Only because if you're waiting on someone else (in this case, AMD) to finalize something that you need in order to finalize your own shit, you can't do a damn thing but wait for them to finish.

Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4 is GDK. I checked with others I did not see that so far.

 

[Topher]

deleted

 

[brownfedora]

That's the part that bothers me the most.

So Microsoft knew that they had the most powerful console and they thought they would have the superior version of multiplats.

But then all of a sudden it ends up not being true and at best they are on par with the PS5.

How did they not know that this was going to happen?

They have plenty of connections with outlets like Digital Foundry and good relationships with many developers. How is it possible that they didn't know this before the system launched?

Makes me wonder if there was some sort of really bad communication between the marketing department and the people who are knowledgeable on the tech.

Just seems a bit strange to me.

It’s obvious why they didn’t know. It’s the same reason that they thought the Halo trailer this summer would knock people’s socks off.

The people running Xbox don’t love games. They aren’t gamers. They are business-men and marketers. The leaders at Xbox spend time thinking up names like “Velocity Architecture” instead of being the people that actually lead the development of the technology.

They aren’t gamers. They didn’t see the issues with the Halo trailer which they must have reviewed countless times because they don’t understand what the cutting edge really is. Their primary innovation this round is a new business-model for games (which is pretty cool by the way). Not a shocker given who is in charge.

Phil. Greenberg. They deserve all the blame they are about to get. No major exclusives until 2022 and no multi-platform advantage. They are about to get another well-deserved ass kicking.

 

[kyoji]

It’s obvious why they didn’t know. It’s the same reason that they though the Halo trailer this summer would knock people’s socks off.

The people running Xbox don’t love games. They aren’t gamers. They are business-men and markets. The leaders at Xbox spend time thinking up names like “Velocity Architecture” instead of being the people that actually make anything.

They aren’t gamers. They didn’t see the issues with the Halo trailer which they must have reviewed countless times. Their primary innovation this round is a new business-model for games (which is pretty cool by the way). Not a shocker given who is in charge.

Phil. Greenberg. They deserve all the blame they are about to get. No major exclusives until 2022 and no multi-platform advantage. They are about to get another ass kicking.

Thankyou for saying this! I just want to add that the fans of MS in gaming need to wake up, too many on this forum are apologetic for their short comings, you have enabled MS in essence to be as mediocre as they are/ have been. MS whole strategy revolves around services, if you dont see a problem with that i dont know what else to tell you.

I still laugh at phil having the nuts to say he felt good after seeing the sony initial game showcase. Then xbox comes out and absolutely takes a shit, with their flagship title taking the brunt which isnt even fair really, considering 343 isnt the only 1st party studio.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Thankyou for saying this! I just want to add that the fans of MS in gaming need to wake up, too many on this forum are apologetic for their short comings, you have enabled MS in essence to be as mediocre as they are/ have been. MS whole strategy revolves around services, if you dont see a problem with that i dont know what else to tell you.

I still laugh at phil having the nuts to say he felt good after seeing the sony initial game showcase. Then xbox comes out and absolutely takes a shit, with their flagship title taking the brunt which isnt even fair really, considering 343 isnt the only 1st party studio.

It's funny that all in all, they are very close in these games, the advantages PS5 enjoys aren't that great that make the Series X look bad. What they did with their console is sell to their fans the idea that the system would be noticeable better than the PS5 which it obviously isn't, and believing that game pass and BC would be enough to fight Sony.

Microsoft shouldn't put their top games in the game pass, how they will profit and have money to make great productions like Sony if they keep giving away the games. Game pass is not exclusive to the Series X, all the games are available on the older consoles and PC, why would you buy their system then? I prefer to buy the games I really want to play, time is more important to me than money, I rather buy Demon Souls, play the shit out of that game for a month or two, then go to the next game. I don't need 100+ games that I don't care about, every game I like in the game pass I already own, and the Microsoft first party games aren't enough for me to justify the price. I know it's a lot of games, I know it's not much money to ask, but ultimately I value the little time I have to play games, and I want to play really good games.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

That's the part that bothers me the most.

So Microsoft knew that they had the most powerful console and they thought they would have the superior version of multiplats.

But then all of a sudden it ends up not being true and at best they are on par with the PS5.

How did they not know that this was going to happen?

They have plenty of connections with outlets like Digital Foundry and good relationships with many developers. How is it possible that they didn't know this before the system launched?

Makes me wonder if there was some sort of really bad communication between the marketing department and the people who are knowledgeable on the tech.

Just seems a bit strange to me.

Same here...
Also the complete absence of first party launch games.
It's like nobody ever planned a console launch over at MS. Or they put all their cards on Halo but nobody ever visited 343 to see what they are doing over there.

They needed to crush Sony on the tech front from the every beginning of the gen if that is their narrative, and delivered nothing.

 

[tassletine]

Any way you cut it, if you look at it historically Sony have always been the ones who won the graphics war.
For whatever reason, Microsoft have never seemed to be able to get developers to push the graphics on their console in a way that outshines Sony -- They hire mavericks like Ueda who write games that aren't even possible on the system they were designed for.

Microsoft's business model seems to be just about making money through sheer brute force.
Sony is different -- They want to be on the bleeding edge in a design / aesthetic sense as well, and until Microsoft focuses on that, I don't think they will ever impress people in the way that Sony do, despite having better hardware on paper.
Sony just take more risks to make their products unique. Unique means fresh -- and fresh is what makes your brain spark.

 

[OZ9000]

Any way you cut it, if you look at it historically Sony have always been the ones who won the graphics war.
For whatever reason, Microsoft have never seemed to be able to get developers to push the graphics on their console in a way that outshines Sony -- They hire mavericks like Ueda who write games that aren't even possible on the system they were designed for.

Microsoft's business model seems to be just about making money through sheer brute force.
Sony is different -- They want to be on the bleeding edge in a design / aesthetic sense as well, and until Microsoft focuses on that, I don't think they will ever impress people in the way that Sony do, despite having better hardware on paper.
Sony just take more risks to make their products unique. Unique means fresh -- and fresh is what makes your brain spark.

Xbox destroyed the PS2 in graphics.

Even the GameCube was stronger.

 

[brownfedora]

This is the same reason why their studios are unlikely to put out anything groundbreaking.

Microsoft simply doesn’t have the leadership to understand what groundbreaking looks like. They will put out some competent fare but nothing that really shakes up the industry. I think it’s likely the Series X is the last high-end console they ever ship. They will go full GamePass with some cloud stuff and do low-end boxes from here on out. They have no appetite for traditional AAA gaming.

 

[Ar¢tos]

For how long are tools and devs catching up are going to be blamed for parity?
6 months? 1 year? 2 years?
How long until people realize that 2tf is almost nothing in a 4k/RT space because of diminishing returns?

 

[Agnostic2020]

NX gamer says dirt 5 uses vrs on xsx .thats why it looks noticeably worse than ps5 in background.


Minute 7:55



So it uses vrs and looks worse than ps5 because of it to keep up with ps5 in performance


Now let's see Riky spin that

I really hope sony never uses vrs or their equivalent version. It looks disgusting

 

[tassletine]

Xbox destroyed the PS2 in graphics.

Even the GameCube was stronger.

Yes, people were hanging their heads in shame.

Shadow of The Collosus says Hi.

 

[Blood Borne]

Yes, people were hanging their heads in shame.

Shadow of The Collosus says Hi.

SOTC ran like 20fps on PS2.
Xbox games such as Ninja Gaiden Black, Chronicles of Riddick and DOOM 3 looked better and played than anything on PS2

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yes, people were hanging their heads in shame.

Shadow of The Collosus says Hi.

U r mixing dev talent and art direction for power. Xbox was more powerful than ps2 hardware wise. No comparison

 

[Armorian]

NX gamer says dirt 5 uses vrs on xsx .thats why it looks noticeably worse than ps5 in background.


Minute 7:55



So it uses vrs and looks worse than ps5 because of it to keep up with ps5 in performance


Now let's see Riky spin that

I really hope sony never uses vrs or their equivalent version. It looks disgusting

Yep, we have fist confirmed game that uses VRS on XSX and it certainly didn't help it. Looks shit too... forget the road look at the side of the car, looks like we are returning to 16 bits image quality

 

[Armorian]

Xbox destroyed the PS2 in graphics.

Even the GameCube was stronger.

It was in time when moore's law was still working, time difference was making massive gaps in power. Both consoles wouldn't be possible in their final configurations in 1999/2000

Edit: Double post

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yep, we have fist confirmed game that uses VRS on XSX and it certainly didn't help it. Looks shit too... forget the road look at the side of the car, looks like we are returning to 16 bits image quality

Imagine capping for this disgusting looking feature just because marketing and pr decided to talk about it yikes

 

[Lysandros]

Xbox destroyed the PS2 in graphics.

Even the GameCube was stronger.

Xbox and GameCube lauched 1.5 year later than PS2 and PS2 traded blows with GameCube in multiplats coming often better in texture and effect quality. But this is an old discussion.

 

[oldergamer]

The reason it isn't obvious is because it hasn't been used yet. VRS would be very noticeable on still screens as Halo Infinite demo shows.

No it wouldt. It depends what quaility level of vrs is used. This nonsense that it creates graphical artifacts is FUD. Just because gears tactics used a lower quality vrs mode, mainly due to haw far the camera is from the high res textures, doesnt mean everygame mskes the same trade off.

 

[Agnostic2020]

No it wouldt. It depends what quaility level of vrs is used. This nonsense that it creates graphical artifacts is FUD. Just because gears tactics used a lower quality vrs mode, mainly due to haw far the camera is from the high res textures, doesnt mean everygame mskes the same trade off.

Dirt 5 also uses vrs to keep up with ps5 and it looks so bad because of it in background

Confirmed in the recent analysis. Maybe we shouldn't cap for marketing terms when they make the game look worse ? Just a thought

 

[oldergamer]

Dirt 5 also uses vrs to keep up with ps5 and it looks so bad because of it in background

Confirmed in the recent analysis. Maybe we shouldn't cap for marketing terms when they make the game look worse ? Just a thought

Again, where is it confirmed vrs is being used and what specific vrs mode? Like i said before the feature has different modes with different quality levels.

Not only that but are you comparing screens between the quality modes running at 120 fps? Specific that had a bug where xbox was using a lower lod and lighting then it should be?