Performance RT mode in both MM and SM:R is BY FAR the worst looking of the three rendering options in either game, IMO. The loss to clarity, details, and added aliasing in the distance is readily apparent to me.
Quality Mode in SM:R, MM, Demon's Souls, Godfall, and Fenyx Rising (the games I have tested) always offers a bump to visual clarity and texture details, due to the resolution bump.
I opt for the standard performance modes in most games, but I stuck with Fidelity Mode in Spider-Man: Remastered, as Insomniac handles 30fps better than almost any other dev. Feels smooth as hell and the resolution + full ray tracing offered look stunning in that mode.
This is all just my perspective based on my viewing experience. It's subjective, everyone is different. I don't think anyone should sincerely say "the mode I prefer is the mode everyone should be using," that's just arrogant and silly IMO.
A new thread about this topic seems to pop up every week or so with the same responses. It's a "spinning our wheels in the mud" kind of conversation. Different people like different things. There really is no right or wrong answer.
I can’t understand how could people prefer resolution over 60fps. 30fps means much motion blur, and for me that kills the details. Demons souls on movement looks pretty worse for me on Quality mode because the blur.
Nah, it's the jaggies in performance mode that disgust me.
I can't quite put my disgust into words, I am disappointed in you sir, however I am happy for you and hope you continue the game!Even if it is more of a slideshow
I love how you say that so definitivelyI'm playing Spider-Man Dynamic 4k with RT and I can see zero difference with 4k vs Dynamic 4k. It is the same. Case closed.
I do wanna point out op...that IMO one of the worst ways to experience a 30fps mode is in the same session as playing something at 60fps..Give your eyes time to rest then go back to it and it wont be AS bad(Its still pretty wack to me, but PC has spoiled me lol)..Valhalla got really choppy when I switched it to Quality mode.
120hz doesn't mean anything for motion at 30fps, unless bfi is engaged. Which you should be doing since you have sony lcd. Other Bfi implementations aren't worth it except panasonic.On what television are you playing. 120hz panel here DS looks much better in quality mode. Little blur here. The geometry is more built out in quality mode too.
These games really require high end tvs with proper hdr to shine brightest
Something something motion resolution.
1080p60 looks cleaner than 4k30 in motion. Unless it’s 4k30 with Sony 120hz bfi then it depends on the game which mode I choose. But going from 60 to 30 will always be jarring bfi or not.
120hz doesn't mean anything for motion at 30fps, unless bfi is engaged. Which you should be doing since you have sony lcd. Other Bfi implementations aren't worth it except panasonic.
The good thing about this thread is that it's showing that not everyone agrees with you....The good thing about the quality mode option is that it's finally showing to the masses how 60fps are better in every circumstance.
Everyone is entitled their wrong opinionThe good thing about this thread is that it's showing that not everyone agrees with you....
That's just false.BFI will makes things look worse if the BFI rate and the frame rate doesn't match. If you have a 120hz BFI on a 60 fps game you'll get double exposure per frame resulting image duplication, you will have a trailing overlaid duplicate of the same frame when panning the camera or following moving objects on screen with your eyes and 4 duplicates at 30 fps.
And now, imagine the beauty if the game was actually 5 fps. Not sure I could handle it.What? It always looks better.
30fps is the way to go.
I say this in every 30fps vs 60fps thread. Framerate is fidelity! Temporal resolution at 60fps reveals more detail in a moving image. 60fps just looks better.
How is that false when I'm sitting here with my Sony capable of 120hz BFI and have tested it with my own eyes. I've played multiple games at 60fps, turned off ingame motion blur, panned the platformer or camera in game and I do indeed get image duplication.That's just false.
You're just seeing the inherent motion blur from the tv itself ; assuming you have an sony X1 chipset or X1 ultimate television that bfi is only going to improve motion clarity, and reduce brightness at the higher setting. And flicker as well, if you set it to max, which you should never do. Keep in mind as well, that 60fps isn't high enough for 0 visible stutter and ghosting ; we need 120hz or more for that.How is that false when I'm sitting here with my Sony capable of 120hz BFI and have tested it with my own eyes. I've played multiple games at 60fps, turned off ingame motion blur, panned the platformer or camera in game and I do indeed get image duplication.
This is what it looks like:
I know my shit, you clearly don't. With a game running at 60fps and a 120hz BFI, each frame will be flashed 2 time. As you are following movement on screen, your eyes will move slightly but continuously between each frame, leading to the same frame being exposed two times (one for each flash) but at different locations in your eyes (on your retina). This is what creates the image duplication.You're just seeing the inherent motion blur from the tv itself ; assuming you have an sony X1 chipset or X1 ultimate television that bfi is only going to improve motion clarity, and reduce brightness at the higher setting. And flicker as well, if you set it to max, which you should never do. Keep in mind as well, that 60fps isn't high enough for 0 visible stutter and ghosting ; we need 120hz or more for that.
I have a sony oled, and even it has motion blur trailing when panning the camera ; your lcd is going to have even more trailing. Rtings are a bunch of amateurs, I only ever went there for input lag ratings, although not for displays I own since I have equipment.
Wait, did they patch in 60fps mode? I through only disk copy have 60 fps if it is unptached?God of War is weird on PS5 for me because it looks way better in Quality mode especially in cut scenes but the combat is way more fun in 60 FPS...I often find myself toggling when I’m exploring and then back into performance for combat.
Just beat Spider-Man Remastered in RT performance and that was great.
Wouldn't it be easier to capture a video and show it frame by frame?I know my shit, you clearly don't. With a game running at 60fps and a 120hz BFI, each frame will be flashed 2 time. As you are following movement on screen, your eyes will move slightly but continuously between each frame, leading to the same frame being exposed two times (one for each flash) but at different locations in your eyes (on your retina). This is what creates the image duplication.
If, you are watching moveis/TV on your Sony, with Motionflow enabled, then you won't get image duplication as the TV will add in new artificially created frames up to 120hz matching the BFI rate.
I've tested this extensively, seen this with my own eyes, and this is not un unknows fact if you do some googling. This is in fact the major reason I retuned my Samsung's I had on trial due to their backlight having a natural flicker of 120hz in ALL modes besides Movie mode, their backlight pulse with modulation (PWM) implementation is essentially acting as BFI. So when I was gaming on them I could clearly see the image duplication. As you can see, this has noting to do with brand or chipset only the strobe rate and content frame rate needing to match. Sony on the other hand have a PWM rate of 720hz, this also creates image duplication but they become so numerous it very hard to spot and the mostly blend together unless they are thin white lines on a black background. Finally, playing games with motion blur enabled, especially on the camera and at lower frame rates such as 30 fps does make the image duplication less noticeable.
The trailing you are talking about could either be the resultant of the Sample and Hold method current display tech uses. The image stays on screen for the full duration of each frame, while you are moving your eyes following action on screen which leads to them image being exposed over a stretch on your retina looking like the image has motion blur while it in reality is pin sharp. Or you are talking about ghosting caused by slow pixel response time.
Here is a link to an article where you can read about BFI and frame rate needing to match:
Motion Blur Reduction (ULMB, LightBoost, etc)
Motion Blur Reduction for displays (ULMB, LightBoost, DyAc, ELMB, etc) are now very common on modern 120Hz+ gaming monitors. For example, many G-SYNC monitors come with a 'ULMB' setting that can be turned ON/OFF. These technique utilize strobe backlights as the method of blur reduction. Why Use...blurbusters.com
"These duplicate images are not strobe crosstalk. It is caused by multiple backlight strobe flashes per unique frame."
You can but it's hard to do it by ha hand held mobile camera, just looking at an image with the camera in a static position won't show the phenomenon, you have to move the camera along the motion you want to track on screen in the same way you eyes are moving.Wouldn't it be easier to capture a video and show it frame by frame?
Samsungs Game Motion Plus is the light version of the regular Motion Interpolation used for Movies and TV. It can only add one extra frame inbetween I think, with more motion artifacts around moving edges for faster response time. I've tried it, it's not useless and does mitigate the image duplication issues caused by their shitty 120hz PWM. But it also introduces input lag and doesn't look that good in many games.Hmm Samsung's tvs got Game Motion Plus feature. Even with Quality Mode it should be pretty smooth.
There is some disadvantage whrn using it. Somehow when enabled it has influence on colors.
I'm playing TLOU2 right now and my eyes are bleeding. Hey cuckmann, give me performance mode for god's sake!
I think even the new RT performance mode looks crappy compared to Hi fidelity mode on the Spider man games. Demon's Souls performance mode is far superior though, the image quality hit is less and it plays far better.depands on game, demon souls or valhalla definitly 60fps is way to go but miles morales I chose rt mode (now probably better choose it's new rt performance mode)
I have the Z9F 75". And I can easily see image duplication on it with BFI enabled (Clearness 1-3). It has nothing to do with Sony, Panasonic, Samsung or LG, it has to do with the rate of the BFI, which on ZF9 is locked to 120hz, so when gaming at 60fps it's easy to see.JeloSWE I've never noticed duplication on my sony x900e nor my a8h oled which has no backlight. As you said, due to these being sample and hold, the bfi simply blends in on a sony lcd, if there is any duplication happening. I honestly thought duplication was just a bad implentation ; i.e. any lcd that's not sony or panasonic oled. Obviously I was talking about sample and hold displays, since bfi is just trying to catch up to impulse displays, but it's still inferior to impulse displays. I knew about sony's high dimming frequency, but i'm less knowledgeable on how they're doing it on oled, but it looks damn great.
There is little reason not to use bfi on a sony display, unless on oled where it adds about a half frame of lag, if you're playing competitive multiplayer. I will do more reading on the subject of the duplication. But I do know, and see, that the added motion clarity from good bfi implentations is tremendous. Do yo have the Z9F or another sony tv?