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[Filben]

Of course it's valid when you stop seeing everything as a war.

I can compare how both version look when running the same FPS target. How much visual sacrifice do you have when running at the same FPS compared to hardware XYZ at Said FPS.

You could also compare how both games look when every version is maxed out.

Both approaches are legitimate. Not everything is a conspiracy (against consoles or PC).

 

[Vick]

Yeah whatever justifies your expensive pc I guess. There is essentially 0 difference aside from basic res and fps. If you are happy to pay for that, good for you

From the Twitter thumbnails alone, aside from res and fps there's noticeable better volumetric effects and general lighting, additional shading, more refined AO overall in general.

Still, nowhere near what we saw with Crysis 2. That one was fucking abysmal on consoles, sub 720p + TAA and edge post-process was the most lethal, vomit inducing combination of the whole generation. The same game running on PC with MaLDo's mod was literal generations above.

Oh shit this got me. That face lol. Reminds me of Les Grossman from tropic thunder.

Yeah, Tom Cruise laugh and memes are a match made in heaven.

 

[ChiefDada]

What fps GPU do the vast majority of PC players game at on?

FTFY

Simple as that really.

Indeed.

 

[Zathalus]

FTFY



Indeed.

Does Alex not do a comparison with a 2070 Super (or 2080, 2060 Super, etc...) and optimized settings anymore? Like he does in almost all his videos? Just checked and he did it with Starfield, Ratchet and Clank, Alan Wake 2, Forza, and many more. Why are people assuming he wont do it here?

 

[ChiefDada]

Does Alex not do a comparison with a 2070 Super (or 2080, 2060 Super, etc...) and optimized settings anymore? Like he does in almost all his videos? Just checked and he did it with Starfield, Ratchet and Clank, Alan Wake 2, Forza, and many more. Why are people assuming he wont do it here?

I'm not assuming anything. I'm just going off the tweets he sent which contradicted each other. The crux of the problem is treating "the PC" platform as a monolithic hardware. The twitter exchange brilliantly exposes the problem when viewing as such.

 

[Zathalus]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm just going off the tweets he sent which contradicted each other. The crux of the problem is treating "the PC" platform as a monolithic hardware. The twitter exchange brilliantly exposes the problem when viewing as such.

You were complaining why he doesn't do a comparison to more common hardware, which he does. Almost 30% of Steam users own a 2070 Super or better.

 

[Kenpachii]

The thing that always boggles my mind is why DF is so obsessed by console framerates. Nobody on pc is framelocking there framerates to 60 fps when everybody and there mom has gsync/freesync screens since forever and enthousiasts are all sitting at lower then 4k resolutions + far higher framerates because even 60 fps is janky with a mouse.

This makes the comparison towards consoles always kind a weird and not really from the perspective of the PC gamer to start with.

So i kind a agree with our console friends it's more a console comparison which makes it odd he compares it towards performance mode instead of quality mode.

About upscaling stuff some console gamers are worrying about, the reality on pc is that native isn't relevant even if it would be relevant on consoles, frame gen + dlss made native irrelevant ages ago.

 

[bender]

Yet it looks way better than full priced glorified dlc from both Sony and Nintendo

 

[ChiefDada]

You were complaining why he doesn't do a comparison to more common hardware, which he does. Almost 30% of Steam users own a 2070 Super or better.

No I'm talking about the flaws in the methodology and presentation of his findings that were exposed in the tweet exchange. You're telling me to wait for the eventual video to release when it's ultimately inconsequential because I'm talking about the tweets.




Like i said, the twitter user was right to ask why the console images were from performance mode since his original tweet was about visual ceiling potential between a PC and a console.

If you don't understand what myself and others are saying at this point then it's because you don't want to, which is fine. I'll just choose to bow out of the conversation.

 

[Zathalus]

No I'm talking about the flaws in the methodology and presentation of his findings that were exposed in the tweet exchange. You're telling me to wait for the eventual video to release when it's ultimately inconsequential because I'm talking about the tweets.




Like i said, the twitter user was right to ask why the console images were from performance mode since his original tweet was about visual ceiling potential between a PC and a console.

If you don't understand what myself and others are saying at this point then it's because you don't want to, which is fine. I'll just choose to bow out of the conversation.

Alex is making a full video comparison, and he tweeted some images to show how the changes are made for console (which one of the actual developers responded on). His tweet wasn't presenting his full findings, nor was it meant to be used as a complete comparison by itself. You are literally complaining about four images and two tweets without any actual context.

 

[Gaiff]

Alex is making a full video comparison, and he tweeted some images to show how the changes are made for console (which one of the actual developers responded on). His tweet wasn't presenting his full findings, nor was it meant to be used as a complete comparison by itself. You are literally complaining about four images and two tweets without any actual context.

ChiefDada might or might not know this, which was my point to the OP.

The bottom line is, the OP is framed in a way that presents the tweet without its full context. See when I say your OP is disingenous SlimySnake ? This is exactly what I was talking about. Your presentation purposefully misleads people into thinking it isn't part of a greater context. Therefore, people will just analyze the tweet and call it a day and I can't blame them since this is exactly what you asked and want.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

It's a ridiculous comparison but it serves as training to leave the PS5 pro as "shit" compared to an RTX5090, which is the plan.

All consoles are shit compared to a €2000 GPU that's not even in question.

 

[rofif]

All consoles are shit compared to a €2000 GPU that's not even in question.

yeah of curse.
Yet I would rather play consoles than fuel the fucking horrible gpu economy. We spread our pc cheeks so wide, nvidia is still railing us.

 

[Senua]

All consoles are shit compared to a €2000 GPU that's not even in question.

Dude you're on gaf, it's very much in question lol.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

The thing that always boggles my mind is why DF is so obsessed by console framerates. Nobody on pc is framelocking there framerates to 60 fps when everybody and there mom has gsync/freesync screens since forever and enthousiasts are all sitting at lower then 4k resolutions + far higher framerates because even 60 fps is janky with a mouse.

This makes the comparison towards consoles always kind a weird and not really from the perspective of the PC gamer to start with.

So i kind a agree with our console friends it's more a console comparison which makes it odd he compares it towards performance mode instead of quality mode.

About upscaling stuff some console gamers are worrying about, the reality on pc is that native isn't relevant even if it would be relevant on consoles, frame gen + dlss made native irrelevant ages ago.

I do. And I play with a controller. On a TV.


Like ChiefDada says PC gaming is not monolithic. That's kinda the beauty of it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The graphics weren't compared correctly is the point.

We know what is inferior...
The price gap.

It was. At 60fps.

The price is less than $60 with full graphics and performance on PC and $70 on PS5 downgraded almost everywhere.

if you want to compare peak console fidelity vs peak fidelity that you could get on a PC.

Funny you thinking DLSS performance is peak fidelity on PC.

The crux of the problem is treating "the PC" platform as a monolithic hardware.

It can be if you want and have the money. Unlike the console that it is only what Sony or MS or Nintendo wants it to be.

 

[FireFly]

Like i said, the twitter user was right to ask why the console images were from performance mode since his original tweet was about visual ceiling potential between a PC and a console.

If you don't understand what myself and others are saying at this point then it's because you don't want to, which is fine. I'll just choose to bow out of the conversation.

His original tweet was about the potential for scaling settings on PC at a given frame target (60 FPS). If Alex was assessing the ceiling for image quality on PC, he would not be using DLSS Performance mode.

 

[Gaiff]

It's like people are being purposefully obtuse. It's 60fps vs 60fps. He could set the PC to 30fps with native 4K but who the fuck games at 30fps on a 4090?

Quality Mode vs Quality Mode is fair on consoles. There are valid reasons to choose one or the other. Almost no one on PC in 2023 with mid-tier rigs and above games at 30fps so they don't give a fuck what they're getting at that frame rate.

 

[Senua]

It's like people are being purposefully obtuse. It's 60fps vs 60fps. He could set the PC to 30fps with native 4K but who the fuck games at 30fps on a 4090?

Quality Mode vs Quality Mode is fair on consoles. There are valid reasons to choose one or the other. Almost no one on PC in 2023 with mid-tier rigs and above games at 30fps so they don't give a fuck what they're getting at that frame rate.

It's just people being extremely insecure about their favoured system, typical gaf stuff.

 

[Portugeezer]

In my opinion, these differences are not even close to those in Crysis 2/3 on PS3/Xbox 360 and PC.

I agree. Let's not forget Crysis 2/3 ran like doodoo on consoles with very frequent sub 30fps.

 

[CGNoire]

Thought this was funny and not just because he's using the Unobtanium settings that literally cant be accessed from the menu unless you launch the game with different parameters, but because he's using the PS5's Performance mode which downgrades settings further when compared to the Quality mode. It actually looks pretty good in comparison shots so maybe he ends up praising the console versions in his final video, but still what a bizarre comparison.

One of the tweets call them out on it and Im not sure if I am buying his reasoning.



Valid comparison? Disingenious? I know Alex is beloved around here and want to know what Alex's biggest fan club has to say about this.

Disengenious for sure. Hes making excuses.

 

[CGNoire]

what a badass , blows the console versions away

I swear to god if he takes one more photo with a Tank Top on Im gonna throw up.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Does it really get any more clear cut than PS5 performance being exclusively compared to the top of the line, one percent gang, PC CONFIGURATION that he owns?

Is the comparison supposed to be an ad for his PC config? For a 4090?

And people think this his helpful because? How is this data relevant for the vast majority of gamers?

The methodology is insane. Let’s pick the PS5, why btw why not the Series S? And if you got some stupid ass counter like “Most console owners will be on PS5” well well ya clown most PC owners won’t be on a 4090. And did you know that up until recently at least most people on consoles chose 30FPS mode for single player games?

There either is solid reasoning on DF’s process or if there isn’t then it just confirms the fact they are a pack of idiots.

 

[hlm666]

If you are trying to compare one at 60fps and one at 30fps and your actually going to talk about image quality during motion the 30fps one is going to lose every time because it's got less temporal data. Then when it's getting heat for reconstruction artifacts someone will say but the 60fps mode breaks up less............ I havn't watched the video so have no idea if they actually did bother looking at motion image quality but if they did it's better to have them both at a similar frame rate. I'm not sure how anyone handles 30fps on an oled either, and motion blurring the shit out of the image aint the answer to it either, why get an oled if you care so little for motion clarity.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They are getting ready for the PS5 Pro vs RTX 4090 videos next year

 

[JimboJones]

Does it really get any more clear cut than PS5 performance being exclusively compared to the top of the line, one percent gang, PC CONFIGURATION that he owns?

Is the comparison supposed to be an ad for his PC config? For a 4090?

And people think this his helpful because? How is this data relevant for the vast majority of gamers?

The methodology is insane. Let’s pick the PS5, why btw why not the Series S? And if you got some stupid ass counter like “Most console owners will be on PS5” well well ya clown most PC owners won’t be on a 4090. And did you know that up until recently at least most people on consoles chose 30FPS mode for single player games?

There either is solid reasoning on DF’s process or if there isn’t then it just confirms the fact they are a pack of idiots.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It was. At 60fps.

The price is less than $60 with full graphics and performance on PC and $70 on PS5 downgraded almost everywhere.



Funny you thinking DLSS performance is peak fidelity on PC.


It can be if you want and have the money. Unlike the console that it is only what Sony or MS or Nintendo wants it to be.

Graphics are not fps

 

[rodrigolfp]

Graphics are not fps

Good thing no one said that they are.

Is the comparison supposed to be an ad for his PC config? For a 4090?

And an ad for the 60fps mode on PS5.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Good thing no one said that they are.

This thread did or are you not paying attention

 

[Kataploom]

His pc obsession is exactly the same as people here and all over the internet recently. People acting like they discovered 144fps and pc gaming yesterday. Welcome too year 2000. Ive been there and later and I’ve made full circle to enjoy console gaming. Raw power of pc isn’t that important to me anymore. For the most part.

What I don't get is if you don't care anymore about graphical differences between PC and console because you're happy compromising, why do you still come to get mad at Alex in these threads?

 

[Senua]

I swear to god if he takes one more photo with a Tank Top on Im gonna throw up.

I think he doth protest too much

 

[Kataploom]

To me it's a valid comparison since 60 fps is basically pretty standard frame rate in both consoles and PC, they're and trying to push the best settings of both in it.

30 fps isn't common on PC, and 100 fps isn't common on consoles so the middle point is 60 fps which is standard on both.

Also remember that PC players will first make sure 60 is achieved and then scale down settings. Some are good with 30 fps but they're far from common, even those with weak GPUs will try and make sure they're as close to 60 fps as possible.

 

[rofif]

What I don't get is if you don't care anymore about graphical differences between PC and console because you're happy compromising, why do you still come to get mad at Alex in these threads?

I really wouldn't know

 

[FireFly]

Is the comparison supposed to be an ad for his PC config? For a 4090?

And people think this his helpful because? How is this data relevant for the vast majority of gamers?

It's intended to demonstrate the scalability of the engine, a la Crysis. As more generations of graphics cards are released, 4090 performance will filter down into more affordable cards.

 

[Thaedolus]

Of course it's valid when you stop seeing everything as a war.

I can compare how both version look when running the same FPS target. How much visual sacrifice do you have when running at the same FPS compared to hardware XYZ at Said FPS.

You could also compare how both games look when every version is maxed out.

Both approaches are legitimate. Not everything is a conspiracy (against consoles or PC).

I could see someone getting upset if he wasn’t being completely transparent about what was being compared, but he is. He’s saying at 60FPS this is what it looks like on PS5 and this it what it can look like on PC.

Imagine getting your panties bunched up about that. OP needs to go for a walk

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

I'm not poor so I choose PC, but I also have a PS5 so

 

[rofif]

I'm not poor so I choose PC, but I also have a PS5 so

is it really about being poor?
I am extremely wealthy. Elon Musk eats breakfast at my place.
And yet I choose to play ps5 while owning expensive, high end, top of the line, state of the art gaming rig.
Some choices you just gotta grow up to.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

is it really about being poor?
I am extremely wealthy. Elon Musk eats breakfast at my place.
And yet I choose to play ps5 while owning expensive, high end, top of the line, state of the art gaming rig.
Some choices you just gotta grow up to.

It was a joke, but honestly I just want to play the games I personally play the best way possible. I don't get as invested in big budget single players games like I used to, even still unless they're exclusive to PS5 I'll just play it on my PC.

Destiny 2, Witcher 3, and various Battlefield games sold me on PC long ago and I've never looked back.

 

[Fredrik]

But they literally spent half of the last DF direct saying GTA6's 30 fps limit is fine because sometimes you have to give up 60 fps for higher fidelity.

Makes sense, GTA6 is assumably third person and well-animated and slow like RDR2, then 30fps is okay-ish. Avatar looks fairly fast-paced and is first person, then you usually want 60fps or higher.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

So 30 fps is not a standard for gaming and yet the 4090 is? Again, hes running settings that cant even be enabled in the game. The 4090 is owned by less than 1% of steam users. Who the fuck is running this game at unobtanium settings at 60 fps?

This is NOT a comparison to show what PC gamers would typically play. If it was, he would be using a 3060 which currently leads the steam charts and is weaker than the PS5. This comparison is to show the game running at its BEST on PC. On card owned by 0.9% of pc gamers. And thats ok. I would love to see that comparison. But then he should choose the best version on consoles to compare it again. If its the XSX or PS5 or quality mode.

Wait so you want him to test the PC on every configuration just because not everybody has his exact configuration? Not everybody has a 3060 after all only around 9% of Steam users do. And btw the 3060 is ballpark PS5 performance **AT RASTER**. The PS5 performs at the level of a 5700XT, 1080ti, Pascal Titan and the 3060 is slightly faster than a 5700XT at raster. The 3060 runs circles around the PS5 at RT and demolishes it at AI meaning the 3060 can look flatout better even at same settings thanks to DLSS and Ray Reconstruction. Of the 3 performance metrics the PS5 only is competitive in 1 and that's raster. Most people in this sub don't actually follow hardware hence their misunderstanding of PC hardware but the reality is that Nvidia > AMD when it comes to hardware.

And btw of course he's testing PC at its best to show what the game can do, it's literally the same thing hes doing on console. Do you want him to run the game on a Series S vs a 4060 and Ryzen 7600 Because again that would make consoles look even worst and PC even better.

Or perhaps you want him to use old hardware instead of Ada (40 series) and Zen 4 (7600), maybe a 2060 and Intel 9600 that launched the same year console gamers were playing God of War 2018 and Spiderman 1. And guess what even ancient hardware like that would still demolish the Series S in this game because the 2060 beats the PS5 and Series X at Ray Tracing and upscaling let alone the Series S.

 

[Closer]

Wait so you want him to test the PC on every configuration just because not everybody has his exact configuration? Not everybody has a 3060 after all only around 9% of Steam users do. And btw the 3060 is ballpark PS5 performance **AT RASTER**. The PS5 performs at the level of a 5700XT, 1080ti, Pascal Titan and the 3060 is slightly faster than a 5700XT at raster. The 3060 runs circles around the PS5 at RT and demolishes it at AI meaning the 3060 can look flatout better even at same settings thanks to DLSS and Ray Reconstruction. Of the 3 performance metrics the PS5 only is competitive in 1 and that's raster. Most people in this sub don't actually follow hardware hence their misunderstanding of PC hardware but the reality is that Nvidia > AMD when it comes to hardware.

And btw of course he's testing PC at its best to show what the game can do, it's literally the same thing hes doing on console. Do you want him to run the game on a Series S vs a 4060 and Ryzen 7600 Because again that would make consoles look even worst and PC even better.

Or perhaps you want him to use old hardware instead of Ada (40 series) and Zen 4 (7600), maybe a 2060 and Intel 9600 that launched the same year console gamers were playing God of War 2018 and Spiderman 1. And guess what even ancient hardware like that would still demolish the Series S in this game because the 2060 beats the PS5 and Series X at Ray Tracing and upscaling let alone the Series S.

He wants it tested against Series S because leave PS5 alone.

 

[ChiefDada]

Funny you thinking DLSS performance is peak fidelity on PC.

His original tweet was about the potential for scaling settings on PC at a given frame target (60 FPS). If Alex was assessing the ceiling for image quality on PC, he would not be using DLSS Performance mode.

Output resolution and graphical presets (e.g. "max settings") are independent of each other. You all know this. Stop being weird and selectively ignorant.

 

[FireFly]

Output resolution and graphical presets (e.g. "max settings") are independent of each other. You all know this. Stop being weird and selectively ignorant.

The final fidelity of the image, which is what is being compared in the screenshots, is a combination of both the resolution and the quality settings chosen. (A big part of the visual boost from moving from performance to quality mode on PS5 will be the increase in resolution).

I actually agree that it would make more sense for the scalability comparison to show the same resolution on PC at different quality levels.

 

[Gaiff]

Output resolution and graphical presets (e.g. "max settings") are independent of each other. You all know this. Stop being weird and selectively ignorant.

So we're going to pretend that the massive IQ increase of Quality Mode is a non-factor lol?

 

[Braag]

It's 60fps vs 60fps.
As much as people hate Alex here, he does see the consoles as the base and gives PC players the settings to get the same visual fidelity as on consoles.

 

[ChiefDada]

So we're going to pretend that the massive IQ increase of Quality Mode is a non-factor lol?

Lol no one needs to pretend about anything! If you want to compare max fidelity between platforms (which he was doing in the tweets at least), then set them at their respective max fidelity. It's very simple. Why is this such a contentious philosophy!?

 

[Gaiff]

Lol no one needs to pretend about anything! If you want to compare max fidelity between platforms (which he was doing in the tweets at least), then set them at their respective max fidelity. It's very simple. Why is this such a contentious philosophy!?

Because then there would be absolutely NO reason to use DLSS Performance if this was the objective? IQ is part of the image fidelity (especially in this day and age when more than just pixels scale with resolution) and you're out to lunch if you don't think it is.

The objective was 60fps vs 60fps because no one gives a shit about 30fps on PC, especially not anyone playing on a 4090.

 

[FireFly]

Lol no one needs to pretend about anything! If you want to compare max fidelity between platforms (which he was doing in the tweets at least), then set them at their respective max fidelity. It's very simple. Why is this such a contentious philosophy!?

He wasn't comparing the max fidelity between platforms. He was comparing the scalability of the engine at a given refresh rate. The PS5 could just as easily have been swapped out for a 3060.

 

[ChiefDada]

It's 60fps vs 60fps.
As much as people hate Alex here, he does see the consoles as the base and gives PC players the settings to get the same visual fidelity as on consoles.

So people with 3060 class GPUs don't count as PC players even though they are the largest share of the PC market? Very weird.

 

[Gaiff]

So people with 3060 class GPUs don't count as PC players even though they are the largest share of the PC market? Very weird.

He very likely will do an optimized settings guide for mid-tier rigs as he so often does. This is just to demonstrate how the game scales at 60fps...and he uses that because 30fps would be completely irrelevant to the PC crowd because no one wants that.