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Does Quality mode ever look better than Performance mode on PS5?
- Thread starter Svengoolie007
- Start date
I can’t understand how could people prefer resolution over 60fps. 30fps means much motion blur, and for me that kills the details. Demons souls on movement looks pretty worse for me on Quality mode because the blur.
Paulxo87
Member
On what television are you playing. 120hz panel here DS looks much better in quality mode. Little blur here. The geometry is more built out in quality mode too.
These games really require high end tvs with proper hdr to shine brightest
StateofMajora
Banned
Something something motion resolution.
1080p60 looks cleaner than 4k30 in motion. Unless it’s 4k30 with Sony 120hz bfi
then it depends on the game which mode I choose. But going from 60 to 30 will always be jarring bfi or not.
1080p60 looks cleaner than 4k30 in motion. Unless it’s 4k30 with Sony 120hz bfi
then it depends on the game which mode I choose. But going from 60 to 30 will always be jarring bfi or not.
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abstract alien
Member
When I pause the game or just stand still and stare, sure. During actual engaging gameplay, I can't notice anything more than I notice the frame rate, which is wildly apparent. The differences are certainly there, and quality mode is great for stills, but a lot of those details are lost in actual gameplay situations, unlike the frame rate, which is forever present. Could be different for different people I guess.
MrMephistoX
Member
God of War is weird on PS5 for me because it looks way better in Quality mode especially in cut scenes but the combat is way more fun in 60 FPS...I often find myself toggling when I’m exploring and then back into performance for combat.
Just beat Spider-Man Remastered in RT performance and that was great.
Just beat Spider-Man Remastered in RT performance and that was great.
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cryogenic7
Member
"Does Quality mode ever look better than Performance mode on PS5?" Yep. On Spiderman PS5 both MM and Remastered.
DeaconOfTheDank
Member
Playing Demon's Souls in Cinematic/Quality 4K was the only way to actually get the visuals from the initial reveal. Being a bit of a graphics whore, I value visuals over performance.
Performance mode is nice for 60fps, but the image is noticeably blurry on my LG C9 OLED. I won't deny that switching from 60fps to 30fps is jarring and I experience the "slideshow" effect that people keep referring to. However, after playing for a minute or two my eyes adjust and I no longer notice it.
Performance mode is nice for 60fps, but the image is noticeably blurry on my LG C9 OLED. I won't deny that switching from 60fps to 30fps is jarring and I experience the "slideshow" effect that people keep referring to. However, after playing for a minute or two my eyes adjust and I no longer notice it.
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Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Nah, it's the jaggies in performance mode that disgust me.
I can't quite put my disgust into words, I am disappointed in you sir, however I am happy for you and hope you continue the game!Even if it is more of a slideshow
Edit: probably worth noting I'm playing on an 82-inch TV, so they stick out more.
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TacoSavage
Member
60fps all day everyday, after cold war and dirt 5 in 120fps, going to last of us 2 at 30fps is jarring to say the least (and i thought it ran like butter just 6 months ago when it came out)
i really hope devs build all games moving fwd with quality/performance modes at launch so we can pick and make everyone happy
i really hope devs build all games moving fwd with quality/performance modes at launch so we can pick and make everyone happy
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ShadowWolf712
Member
The answer is yes, and it's honestly quite visible in the Spider-Man games.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
I love how you say that so definitively
TacoSavage
Member
I stopped playing Spiderman on ps4 about 30% in and I’m so glad I never finished as the remaster and miles morales are a sight to behold at super smooth 60fps with ray tracing, i’ll take a resolution gimp any day for that
Strider Highwind
Banned
I do wanna point out op...that IMO one of the worst ways to experience a 30fps mode is in the same session as playing something at 60fps..Give your eyes time to rest then go back to it and it wont be AS bad(Its still pretty wack to me, but PC has spoiled me lol)..
I know during the launch week of PS5 I played like 5 hours of Demon Souls at 60fps while bloodborne was downloading/installing..then Bloodborne loaded and that 30fps felt like it was 10...but when I waited a few days and came back to it I didn't feel as bad about it lol
StateofMajora
Banned
120hz doesn't mean anything for motion at 30fps, unless bfi is engaged. Which you should be doing since you have sony lcd. Other Bfi implementations aren't worth it except panasonic.
LaughingStock
Member
I'm playing TLOU2 right now and my eyes are bleeding. Hey cuckmann, give me performance mode for god's sake!
SkylineRKR
Member
Dirt 5 is much better on Resolution mode, as Image Quality mode runs like trash. Demon's Souls seems to look only slightly better with some more post processing in 30fps mode but the 60fps is way too solid to pass up. In the end, games are about how they move, and its nicer to look at 60fps footage.
I must say I own a 55 inch TV, a former premium model (KS9000), and 1440p looks to me just as good as native 4k. Whats the difference exactly? Do you need 65 inch or bigger set or do you need to put your eyes against the TV? 1080p yeah, it looks more blurry, FH4 on XSS does look jagged. Gears 5, which I believe targets 1440p, does not.
I must say I own a 55 inch TV, a former premium model (KS9000), and 1440p looks to me just as good as native 4k. Whats the difference exactly? Do you need 65 inch or bigger set or do you need to put your eyes against the TV? 1080p yeah, it looks more blurry, FH4 on XSS does look jagged. Gears 5, which I believe targets 1440p, does not.
JeloSWE
Member
Something something motion resolution.
1080p60 looks cleaner than 4k30 in motion. Unless it’s 4k30 with Sony 120hz bfi
BFI will makes things look worse if the BFI rate and the frame rate doesn't match. If you have a 120hz BFI on a 60 fps game you'll get double exposure per frame resulting image duplication, you will have a trailing overlaid duplicate of the same frame when panning the camera or following moving objects on screen with your eyes and 4 duplicates at 30 fps.
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Sethbacca
Member
The good thing about this thread is that it's showing that not everyone agrees with you....
Miles708
Member
Everyone is entitled their wrong opinion
sncvsrtoip
Member
depands on game, demon souls or valhalla definitly 60fps is way to go but miles morales I chose rt mode (now probably better choose it's new rt performance mode)
StateofMajora
Banned
That's just false.
cireza
Member
And now, imagine the beauty if the game was actually 5 fps. Not sure I could handle it.
Atanascovich
Member
Its good having the chance to choose. But I'm little afraid from the future. Hope this options will stay the entire generation, at least a majority of games
Kuranghi
Member
My thinking is that you don't look at things in games while you're moving the camera though, I usually stop it to have a look at it.
I understand the benefits of increasing motion resolution to see more frames of an really quick animation but I just rely on my eyes to fill in the missing information at 30 fps and enjoy the increased spatial resolution, which lets me see things I might not have seen otherwise. Running old games at 8K (downsampled to 4K) just adds so much depth to the image that I favour that right now. I think most of the games where the animations are that fast I would play in 60 and sacrifice the resolution anyway.
I think its a screen size thing mostly though, I'm on a stupidly big TV so I really notice differences in res a lot.
What size/type of screen do you play on?
VisualFidelity
Member
Depends on the game.
Performance RT in MM is phenomenal. I've done side by sides and the visual compromise is minimal, but the 60fps makes a world of a difference, making it better than quality mode. WRC9 same story
Immortals Fenyx l, Demon Souls and AC Valhalla I use quality, because they just look so much better.
Performance RT in MM is phenomenal. I've done side by sides and the visual compromise is minimal, but the 60fps makes a world of a difference, making it better than quality mode. WRC9 same story
Immortals Fenyx l, Demon Souls and AC Valhalla I use quality, because they just look so much better.
JeloSWE
Member
How is that false when I'm sitting here with my Sony capable of 120hz BFI and have tested it with my own eyes. I've played multiple games at 60fps, turned off ingame motion blur, panned the platformer or camera in game and I do indeed get image duplication.
This is what it looks like:
StateofMajora
Banned
You're just seeing the inherent motion blur from the tv itself ; assuming you have an sony X1 chipset or X1 ultimate television that bfi is only going to improve motion clarity, and reduce brightness at the higher setting. And flicker as well, if you set it to max, which you should never do. Keep in mind as well, that 60fps isn't high enough for 0 visible stutter and ghosting ; we need 120hz or more for that.
I have a sony oled, and even it has motion blur trailing when panning the camera ; your lcd is going to have even more trailing. Rtings are a bunch of amateurs, I only ever went there for input lag ratings, although not for displays I own since I have equipment.
metareferential
Member
Nope: motion resolution > everything.
JeloSWE
Member
I know my shit, you clearly don't. With a game running at 60fps and a 120hz BFI, each frame will be flashed 2 time. As you are following movement on screen, your eyes will move slightly but continuously between each frame, leading to the same frame being exposed two times (one for each flash) but at different locations in your eyes (on your retina). This is what creates the image duplication.
If, you are watching moveis/TV on your Sony, with Motionflow enabled, then you won't get image duplication as the TV will add in new artificially created frames up to 120hz matching the BFI rate.
I've tested this extensively, seen this with my own eyes, and this is not un unknows fact if you do some googling. This is in fact the major reason I retuned my Samsung's I had on trial due to their backlight having a natural flicker of 120hz in ALL modes besides Movie mode, their backlight pulse with modulation (PWM) implementation is essentially acting as BFI. So when I was gaming on them I could clearly see the image duplication. As you can see, this has noting to do with brand or chipset only the strobe rate and content frame rate needing to match. Sony on the other hand have a PWM rate of 720hz, this also creates image duplication but they become so numerous it very hard to spot and the mostly blend together unless they are thin white lines on a black background. Finally, playing games with motion blur enabled, especially on the camera and at lower frame rates such as 30 fps does make the image duplication less noticeable.
The trailing you are talking about could either be the resultant of the Sample and Hold method current display tech uses. The image stays on screen for the full duration of each frame, while you are moving your eyes following action on screen which leads to them image being exposed over a stretch on your retina looking like the image has motion blur while it in reality is pin sharp. Or you are talking about ghosting caused by slow pixel response time.
Here is a link to an article where you can read about BFI and frame rate needing to match:
Motion Blur Reduction (ULMB, LightBoost, etc)
Motion Blur Reduction for displays (ULMB, LightBoost, DyAc, ELMB, etc) are now very common on modern 120Hz+ gaming monitors. For example, many G-SYNC monitors come with a 'ULMB' setting that can be turned ON/OFF. These technique utilize strobe backlights as the method of blur reduction. Why Use...
blurbusters.com
"These duplicate images are not strobe crosstalk. It is caused by multiple backlight strobe flashes per unique frame."
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xellos2099alpha
Member
Wait, did they patch in 60fps mode? I through only disk copy have 60 fps if it is unptached?
puffzor
Banned
Wouldn't it be easier to capture a video and show it frame by frame?I know my shit, you clearly don't. With a game running at 60fps and a 120hz BFI, each frame will be flashed 2 time. As you are following movement on screen, your eyes will move slightly but continuously between each frame, leading to the same frame being exposed two times (one for each flash) but at different locations in your eyes (on your retina). This is what creates the image duplication.
If, you are watching moveis/TV on your Sony, with Motionflow enabled, then you won't get image duplication as the TV will add in new artificially created frames up to 120hz matching the BFI rate.
I've tested this extensively, seen this with my own eyes, and this is not un unknows fact if you do some googling. This is in fact the major reason I retuned my Samsung's I had on trial due to their backlight having a natural flicker of 120hz in ALL modes besides Movie mode, their backlight pulse with modulation (PWM) implementation is essentially acting as BFI. So when I was gaming on them I could clearly see the image duplication. As you can see, this has noting to do with brand or chipset only the strobe rate and content frame rate needing to match. Sony on the other hand have a PWM rate of 720hz, this also creates image duplication but they become so numerous it very hard to spot and the mostly blend together unless they are thin white lines on a black background. Finally, playing games with motion blur enabled, especially on the camera and at lower frame rates such as 30 fps does make the image duplication less noticeable.
The trailing you are talking about could either be the resultant of the Sample and Hold method current display tech uses. The image stays on screen for the full duration of each frame, while you are moving your eyes following action on screen which leads to them image being exposed over a stretch on your retina looking like the image has motion blur while it in reality is pin sharp. Or you are talking about ghosting caused by slow pixel response time.
Here is a link to an article where you can read about BFI and frame rate needing to match:
Motion Blur Reduction (ULMB, LightBoost, etc)
Motion Blur Reduction for displays (ULMB, LightBoost, DyAc, ELMB, etc) are now very common on modern 120Hz+ gaming monitors. For example, many G-SYNC monitors come with a 'ULMB' setting that can be turned ON/OFF. These technique utilize strobe backlights as the method of blur reduction. Why Use...
"These duplicate images are not strobe crosstalk. It is caused by multiple backlight strobe flashes per unique frame."
JeloSWE
Member
You can but it's hard to do it by ha hand held mobile camera, just looking at an image with the camera in a static position won't show the phenomenon, you have to move the camera along the motion you want to track on screen in the same way you eyes are moving.
Here is how you have to do it: https://blurbusters.com/motion-tests/pursuit-camera/
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JeloSWE
Member
Samsungs Game Motion Plus is the light version of the regular Motion Interpolation used for Movies and TV. It can only add one extra frame inbetween I think, with more motion artifacts around moving edges for faster response time. I've tried it, it's not useless and does mitigate the image duplication issues caused by their shitty 120hz PWM. But it also introduces input lag and doesn't look that good in many games.
JerryinSoCal
Member
I play Demon's Souls at 60fps and Spider-man/Miles Morales at 30fps because the game feels responsive and fluid enough and I like the better graphics that come along with it. That being said it's kind of hard to appreciate RT in a game like that unless you stop to look at it, generally you are swinging around away from the buildings and are busy focusing on where you are going vs looking at the glass and gameplay can get very challenging if you don't watch what you are doing.
StateofMajora
Banned
JeloSWE
I've never noticed duplication on my sony x900e nor my a8h oled which has no backlight. As you said, due to these being sample and hold, the bfi simply blends in on a sony lcd, if there is any duplication happening. I honestly thought duplication was just a bad implentation ; i.e. any lcd that's not sony or panasonic oled. Obviously I was talking about sample and hold displays, since bfi is just trying to catch up to impulse displays, but it's still inferior to impulse displays. I knew about sony's high dimming frequency, but i'm less knowledgeable on how they're doing it on oled, but it looks damn great.There is little reason not to use bfi on a sony display, unless on oled where it adds about a half frame of lag, if you're playing competitive multiplayer. I will do more reading on the subject of the duplication. But I do know, and see, that the added motion clarity from good bfi implentations is tremendous. Do yo have the Z9F or another sony tv?
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Am surprised as it's got a brilliant camera motion blur implementation hopefully you have it turned up.
cryogenic7
Member
I think even the new RT performance mode looks crappy compared to Hi fidelity mode on the Spider man games. Demon's Souls performance mode is far superior though, the image quality hit is less and it plays far better.
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Only fools play on quality mode.
S
Shodan09
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, noticeably to me. I prefer Spiderman and demon souls in quality mode .
JeloSWE
Member
I have the Z9F 75". And I can easily see image duplication on it with BFI enabled (Clearness 1-3). It has nothing to do with Sony, Panasonic, Samsung or LG, it has to do with the rate of the BFI, which on ZF9 is locked to 120hz, so when gaming at 60fps it's easy to see.
There is little reason not to use bfi on a sony display, unless on oled where it adds about a half frame of lag, if you're playing competitive multiplayer. I will do more reading on the subject of the duplication. But I do know, and see, that the added motion clarity from good bfi implentations is tremendous. Do yo have the Z9F or another sony tv?
Please try these two test on your TVs. Try them out in Game mode, Then turn Clearness on and off under Motionflow and you should be able to see the image duplication I'm talking about.
TestUFO: Ghosting
Animation on Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests for testing displays and monitors.
This one will look like: | -> | |
TestUFO: Blurtrail
Animation on Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests for testing displays and monitors.
----------------------
Here you can see what our TV's BFI looks like and how the light PWM implementation differ. Your A8H is capable of 60hz BFI which will make it hard to see unless you are playing in a 30 fps game.
Your X900E isn't very sharp as the light is not switching on and of quickly enough but you get a more gentle sinus "S" curve instead. My Z9F is super clear when I do play at 120fps or use Motionflow with Smoothness turned on but looks horrible with 60fps games. Again, it's important to test this with imagery that doesn't contain motion blur, turn it off ingame or please test with my two above links to Blur busters.
StateofMajora
Banned
JeloSWE
I clicked your link using my a8h, and on my ps4 pro in game mode, and a clearness setting of 2 which I always have it on for games. I noticed only a slightly less clear image when I turned it off. No doubt it's only a slight decrease because of the simple test pattern. To be clear, when you quoted me a second time I tested turning it on and off in shadow of the colossus 60fps mode, with motion blur off (how I normally play), and i noticed 0 duplication, only a huge decrease in motion clarity. That Rtings slide says the a8h does 60hz flicker on the max setting, and that is the worst way to use bfi due to horrible flicker. I wonder if your z9f does that with 120fps content, because it's unusable.
My 900e does it beautifully as well, I don't know what else to say. Maybe it's more a problem for your unit, but I briefly had a 950g and also had no problem with duplication, although I didn't even have it a month. Sony definitely has the best motion processing for sure. I use clearness and smoothness while watching movies and animation and there are 0 artifacts with my settings.