MasterDerico
Member
100% agree with you OP!
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Dragon's Dogma combat > Soulsborne combat
- Thread starter .Pennywise
- Start date
MasterDerico
Member
Didn't know Dan Schneider worked at From Software!Souls games also make you a degenerate.
Did you guys notice how Souls fans suddenly turn from normal and healthy productive members of society to foot fetishists?
Look at this degeneracy
Meanwhile, Dragon's Dogma puts people on the right track. It encourages players to seek the right path and interact with other human beings.
The message is clear, it's a collective effort, you can't beat the foes all by yourself. You're part of society after all.
Here, it even mocks Souls players in the game.
Here's a typical representation of a Souls player that is clearly evil and degenerate
Good riddance!
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Bernardougf
Gold Member
You have to check your weight ratio! It has to be under a specific % so you can roll properly.I know OP is (rightfully?) getting a lot of flak, but I tried the first Dark Souls (remastered, on PC) and, coming from Bayonetta, I hated the Dark Souls combat. Granted, I only played the game for a small section, and again it was coming from Bayonetta -- which has an arguably very different combat system, one that appeals to me greatly -- so I do very much want to try Dark Souls again and give it another honest try.
But things I hated:
- I was the Knight class, and movement in general was slow and clunky
- The Knight has a "roll" (or is it a dodge? Can't remember) that is much less a roll and more of him just awkwardly throwing himself on the floor, what in the actual fuck. What does this have to do with combat? Well, a lot, obviously.
- Thankfully they give you an option to change the button mappings because the default layout is all sorts of unintuitive "WTF"
- I don't like the "doing anything takes stamina" systems in video games. Run, goodbye stamina. Light attack, goodbye half stamina. Strong attack, goodbye over 3/4 of my fucking stamina bar. Granted this is all at the beginning, in the prison level, and I'm sure you can buff your stamina bar as you progress. But I still don't like stamina-based systems; it's my fucking personal preference and I'm sticking to my guns.
- The parry mechanic is clunky as fuck and I sometimes couldn't get it to work. Don't give me any "lol git gud scrub" bullshit -- I have a lot of experience in action and especially fighting games and I'm pretty good with timing and execution. (Just one of a trillion examples, I Pure Platinumed all chapters, in all difficulties, in Bayonetta with both Bayo and Jeanne.) Also parrying is useless for bosses.
- Combine all of the above, and the first boss battle, the giant fat troll thing in the jail, was not fun. I beat him after only one retry (which again proves it's not an issue of "git gud," it's an issue of me not having fun) because I figured out that all you had to do was bring a shit ton of healing, run circles around the boss, look for an opening, take advantage of said opening and chip away damage, and hope that he doesn't hit you with one of his giant swinging, massively damage moves that you can neither roll away from nor parry. (Not that the roll does anything anyway, since he just throws himself on the ground, AND it takes fucking stamina to do that!)
That of course is wrapped up in one of the ugliest game worlds I've ever seen. I'm thinking, ok maybe it's just the jail level, it will get better after that. Nope, still ugly shit even after the jail.
Again, I'm admitting that maybe coming to Souls from a fast, stylish, colorful Japanese character action game with a heavy emphasis on dodging, parrying, and combos, was probably not the best transition. I'm also admitting that I didn't play for long enough to maybe have the game "click" with me. It's also my understanding that many improvements were done after Dark Souls 1 (an IRL buddy kept raving about Sekiro, for example, so I went ahead and bought that on a sale).
I will give Dark Souls 1 another try, a genuine one. But man, as far as combat went, first impressions were NOT good. At all. I know this series is a GAF darling but super fans need to understand that not every game is to everyone's liking.
You are playing a souls game and complaining about things that are different from your preferred genre of action games (witch souls is not), is like me playing F1 and complaining that it does not play equally to a rally game.
And yes you have to get good, you have to get good in any game if you want to play it and finish it... if you want to get good or not for this specific game, thats the question.
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Astral Dog
Member
I thought Dragon's Dogma was well executed combat wise but its the other parts of the design(open world, characters/plot, enemy variety, item managment) i don't care about
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Souls fans are just feet lovers in disguise.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Again, why don't you read my post? More carefully this time? I tried to craft a reasonable critique with a lot of caveats, yet it seems you didn't get a lot of it. (Or chose to ignore it.)
This is what I was expecting, though: Some Souls hardcore fans not being able to understand that not all games are a good fit for all people and giving me shitty responses like yours.
It was never about me "getting good." Honestly I think Souls difficulty is overrated. I didn't have a difficult time defeating any enemy... I just didn't have a good time. Is that so hard for you to understand!?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You mean like.... like Shadow of the Colossus?
Souls fans are just feet lovers in disguise.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yes. Why aren't more games doing that? It's fun, looks cool and is much better than feet stabbing.
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Spaceman292
Banned
Yeah man I actually figure out how games work rather than misunderstanding and blaming something elseI am, fool... Are you!?
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Like... To me personally, Resident Evil 4 is the greatest video game of all time. It's flawless. It's a masterpiece and I sometimes wonder if the medium will see any watershed moment like that ever again.
But I also understand, very well, that Resident Evil 4 is not for everyone. It's not for hardcore fans of the classic ("fixed camera") series. It's not for people who like more modern techniques in their shooters, like strafing, which Resident Evil 4 does not provide. It's not for people who dislike action horror. It's not for people who like more action-y stuff than RE4 provides. It's not for people who like good or deep stories; Resident Evil 4's story is fine to me but stepping back and looking at it more soberly/objectively, it's a shallow and corny story, with even more corny dialog to boot.
Those (and more) are valid criticisms from those who may not like Resident Evil 4. And because they're fair criticisms, I'm not gonna make fun of them or insult them or give them any "git gud" (seriously, isn't the "git gud" shit played out by now?) bullshit.
But I also understand, very well, that Resident Evil 4 is not for everyone. It's not for hardcore fans of the classic ("fixed camera") series. It's not for people who like more modern techniques in their shooters, like strafing, which Resident Evil 4 does not provide. It's not for people who dislike action horror. It's not for people who like more action-y stuff than RE4 provides. It's not for people who like good or deep stories; Resident Evil 4's story is fine to me but stepping back and looking at it more soberly/objectively, it's a shallow and corny story, with even more corny dialog to boot.
Those (and more) are valid criticisms from those who may not like Resident Evil 4. And because they're fair criticisms, I'm not gonna make fun of them or insult them or give them any "git gud" (seriously, isn't the "git gud" shit played out by now?) bullshit.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
(Spoiler: no we don't, because you're an idiot
. I know you're one of the usual shit posters, especially in off topic, but I thought you could still have an adult conversation about... ANY topic)
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Spaceman292
Banned
Get gud also involves learning the rules. Your dodge roll is better if you take your armor off, etc...
(Spoiler: no we don't, because you're an idiot
Bernardougf
Gold Member
I think you should read my post properly and not be so defensive, you were not playing the right way and thats why you think the character was droping to the ground and not rolling, you were not interested in learning the games mechanics (get good?) And therefore where not having fun with the game, your critics as I already said is of someone that plays one game wanting it to be another ... and again you can be a excelente videogame player but every new game YOU HAVE TO GET GOOD in thar especific game.. and since you cant even roll right.. im sorry but your are not a good souls player
InfiniteCombo
Banned
There were caveats in my original post.
But even with those caveats, a lot of my criticisms still hold. Movement IS clunky/slow. Boss battles consisting of dancing around the boss only to look for the occasional opening, that may be fine but it can also get old. Etc etc
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Just saw the thread tags.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I think you Souls people have let this "git gud" shit became such a cult that it has lost some meaning.
Your original response COULD have been: "Hey man maybe there were some parts of the initial tutorial you missed" (I don't think I did?) or "hey man the digital manual that comes with the digital version of the game is key, you should read it thoroughly and carefully before even beginning the game" , or "hey man when you're going through the character creation keep these things in mind" etc.
No, you went to the usual (12-year-old) talking point of "lul git gud."
C'mon Souls fans, I didn't have high expectations, but y'all can do a BIT better than this, no?
If I'm a bit defensive is because I was expecting these kinds of replies; because I've seen that whenever anyone on GAF dares criticize the Second Coming of Jesus™, how the fan base reacts.
I can see some of the appeal of the series. But y'all can sometimes be a defensive and touchy fan base. Not very inviting.
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MasterCornholio
Member
OP been strange since the Avatar bet thread.
:I
:I
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I even said that there's a possibility that with more playtime, the game will "click" with me.
When I first played Bayonetta I hated it. I almost dropped it for good. Then it clicked and became one of my favorite games of all time.
But the Bayo fan base was encouraging (because they want MORE people to play their favorite game? Not less?) and just told me to stick with it because they could see that none of my issues were about "getting good." They could tell I was good mechanically but was missing some of the "it" factor of the game.
With that said... Let's try again, shall we?
I'm playing Yakuza 7 at the moment and loving it, and was planning to get back to Dark Souls 1 Remastered after that.
When I first played Bayonetta I hated it. I almost dropped it for good. Then it clicked and became one of my favorite games of all time.
But the Bayo fan base was encouraging (because they want MORE people to play their favorite game? Not less?) and just told me to stick with it because they could see that none of my issues were about "getting good." They could tell I was good mechanically but was missing some of the "it" factor of the game.
With that said... Let's try again, shall we?
I'm playing Yakuza 7 at the moment and loving it, and was planning to get back to Dark Souls 1 Remastered after that.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Souls games, all of them, are a big f* mistery from character creations and leveling up , to finding secrers and etc.. I give you that... for me you just cant play a souls game without some kind of online guide tutorial.. one wrong choice and you are stuck with that for your hole play through...
So my advice is before even start you got to read... read about the classes, the weapons, the stats, and if you want and I usualy do, use a walk-through to not miss some secrets that you simply just cant know if you dont read before. And even with all that you have to learn to play every game to not f* die all the time
So yes playing a souls game is a pain in the ass at the start.. but once you learn all the mechanics and stats/character building... and start killing those mofos ... you really feel the sense of accomplishment...
Peace
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
Awesome man, thanks for all the tips.Souls games, all of them, are a big f* mistery from character creations and leveling up , to finding secrers and etc.. I give you that... for me you just cant play a souls game without some kind of online guide tutorial.. one wrong choice and you are stuck with that for your hole play through...
So my advice is before even start you got to read... read about the classes, the weapons, the stats, and if you want and I usualy do, use a walk-through to not miss some secrets that you simply just cant know if you dont read before. And even with all that you have to learn to play every game to not f* die all the time
So yes playing a souls game is a pain in the ass at the start.. but once you learn all the mechanics and stats/character building... and start killing those mofos ... you really feel the sense of accomplishment...
Peace
I do want to start with Souls 1 and move up in the series from there. (EDIT: I don't own a PS5 so that's why I'm not starting with Demon's Souls.)
I'm not forcing myself to anything; I'm very calculated when I buy video games. I see the huge potential in the game, and I do think that once things fall into place, it should be a rewarding experience.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Soulsfans are well known to be a rabbid bunch,
But this day
.Pennywise
came and ate their lunch.
He cried, "Dragon's Dogma was the better game!"
While soulsfans chafed at the controversial claim.
But as the thread went on, and as the debate grew fierce,
Through the cacophony of voices, a truth would eventually pierce.
One so bold and so potent, that even soulsfans could not deny:
there was nothing more fun than climbing up a Cyclops to poke a sword in its eye.
But this day
.Pennywise
came and ate their lunch.He cried, "Dragon's Dogma was the better game!"
While soulsfans chafed at the controversial claim.
But as the thread went on, and as the debate grew fierce,
Through the cacophony of voices, a truth would eventually pierce.
One so bold and so potent, that even soulsfans could not deny:
there was nothing more fun than climbing up a Cyclops to poke a sword in its eye.
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GermanZepp
Member
I'm gonna report and ignore everyone that agrees with you OP.
Soodanim
Member
Sometimes we need perspectives like these to remind us that it isn't always so intuitive from day 1. Even those of us that went into DS1 from Demon's Souls learned most of what we needed to in that particular trial by fire in 2009/10, so coming in fresh comes with a big learning curve. Souls isn't like anything else, for better or worse. It's why it influenced so much.I know OP is (rightfully?) getting a lot of flak, but I tried the first Dark Souls (remastered, on PC) and, coming from Bayonetta, I hated the Dark Souls combat. Granted, I only played the game for a small section, and again it was coming from Bayonetta -- which has an arguably very different combat system, one that appeals to me greatly -- so I do very much want to try Dark Souls again and give it another honest try.
But things I hated:
- I was the Knight class, and movement in general was slow and clunky
- The Knight has a "roll" (or is it a dodge? Can't remember) that is much less a roll and more of him just awkwardly throwing himself on the floor, what in the actual fuck. What does this have to do with combat? Well, a lot, obviously.
- Thankfully they give you an option to change the button mappings because the default layout is all sorts of unintuitive "WTF"
- I don't like the "doing anything takes stamina" systems in video games. Run, goodbye stamina. Light attack, goodbye half stamina. Strong attack, goodbye over 3/4 of my fucking stamina bar. Granted this is all at the beginning, in the prison level, and I'm sure you can buff your stamina bar as you progress. But I still don't like stamina-based systems; it's my fucking personal preference and I'm sticking to my guns.
- The parry mechanic is clunky as fuck and I sometimes couldn't get it to work. Don't give me any "lol git gud scrub" bullshit -- I have a lot of experience in action and especially fighting games and I'm pretty good with timing and execution. (Just one of a trillion examples, I Pure Platinumed all chapters, in all difficulties, in Bayonetta with both Bayo and Jeanne.) Also parrying is useless for bosses.
- Combine all of the above, and the first boss battle, the giant fat troll thing in the jail, was not fun. I beat him after only one retry (which again proves it's not an issue of "git gud," it's an issue of me not having fun) because I figured out that all you had to do was bring a shit ton of healing, run circles around the boss, look for an opening, take advantage of said opening and chip away damage, and hope that he doesn't hit you with one of his giant swinging, massively damage moves that you can neither roll away from nor parry. (Not that the roll does anything anyway, since he just throws himself on the ground, AND it takes fucking stamina to do that!)
That of course is wrapped up in one of the ugliest game worlds I've ever seen. I'm thinking, ok maybe it's just the jail level, it will get better after that. Nope, still ugly shit even after the jail.
Again, I'm admitting that maybe coming to Souls from a fast, stylish, colorful Japanese character action game with a heavy emphasis on dodging, parrying, and combos, was probably not the best transition. I'm also admitting that I didn't play for long enough to maybe have the game "click" with me. It's also my understanding that many improvements were done after Dark Souls 1 (an IRL buddy kept raving about Sekiro, for example, so I went ahead and bought that on a sale).
I will give Dark Souls 1 another try, a genuine one. But man, as far as combat went, first impressions were NOT good. At all. I know this series is a GAF darling but super fans need to understand that not every game is to everyone's liking.
- Equip weight always favours light rolling (<25%) (DS2 onwards buffed medium rolls to make it a very wide ranged of "normal"). You aren't told this, so if you start with a class that weighs you down then you're crippled because you don't know any better. Every time I start a new character in 1 I strip off without thinking because I'm so used to it, but even ER will start you off fat rolling despite how crippling it is to the gameplay. Souls gameplay is stamina, attack commitment, and dodges. You can't cripple one and expect people to have a balanced time, because shields aren't always the best way to go. Maybe at first, but that fades.
- The parry mechanic takes some learning, and I didn't touch it in my first playthrough. DS1 has the easiest parrying looking back, but that doesn't mean it's intuitive by default.
- I don't know how it would be improved, but we all know deep down that the item/spell selection is wank. Eventually they later added a long press to go back to the first slot and ER added the 4 way quick items, but items/spells are still a slow, linear cycle.
But to speak in the series' defence as a long time fan, once it clicks then it all begins to make sense.
You get to appreciate how to approach combat and what they're doing (including the speed and the stamina), and those rules see you through the entire game.
Then you get to appreciate DS1's world design, which thanks to the interconnected nature of the map is the best in the series.
Then you get to appreciate the lore (if you want to). I find the Souls games are better once you know how to play them, for example the fat roll thing.
DS1 is by and large the fairest game of the series, and although it's 11 years old and looks like it, and is flawed in the end-game, I would still recommend it. Later games improve aspects as you would expect (UI, aforementioned medium rolling, etc) but they also added Bloodborne's speed but without the things that make Bloodborne what it is.
On a personal note IC, PM me if you decide you want to try DS1 again and I'll happily pass on any relevant wisdom.
On the wider topic of DD, it does remind me how much I miss the tail cutting mechanic from DS1. It added something to bosses that was lost in future games, and that's a real shame. It was never as influential on bosses as it is in DD, but it added both a reward and a dynamic element that is no longer there.
Very much looking forward to DD2, I hope they get it right. I wager we will see a lot of people making threads with the same opinion as OP when the time comes, and it's entirely fair.
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existensmaximum
Member
That is certainly an opinion that one can have. Personally, I think everything about Dragon's Dogma sucks.
Spaceman292
Banned
Those aren't criticisms, those are just parts of the game. You may as well criticise Ace Combat for having too many jet planes.
Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
He is under immense pressure. Everyone that betted there and did not change their avatar send threatening PM to him to not speak further for the matter.
Katajx
Gold Member
Dragon’s Dogma killed my interest in Skyrim almost from this alone.
.Pennywise
Banned
Thanks mate, took a lot to do itQuality thread right here.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I LOVE Monster Hunter's combat a lot but that combat is specifically made to fight giant monsters and nothing else.Monster Hunter has better combat than both so who cares
Imagine trying to fight other human with MH combat, it just wouldn't work.
SoraNoKuni
Member
Dragons dogma is a great game, but this thread... Come on.
Astral Dog
Member
Bayonetta was pretty much playable perfection. its animation and controls were simply on another level compared to Dark Souls 1,2 or Demon during that generationI know OP is (rightfully?) getting a lot of flak, but I tried the first Dark Souls (remastered, on PC) and, coming from Bayonetta, I hated the Dark Souls combat. Granted, I only played the game for a small section, and again it was coming from Bayonetta -- which has an arguably very different combat system, one that appeals to me greatly -- so I do very much want to try Dark Souls again and give it another honest try.
But things I hated:
- I was the Knight class, and movement in general was slow and clunky
- The Knight has a "roll" (or is it a dodge? Can't remember) that is much less a roll and more of him just awkwardly throwing himself on the floor, what in the actual fuck. What does this have to do with combat? Well, a lot, obviously.
- Thankfully they give you an option to change the button mappings because the default layout is all sorts of unintuitive "WTF"
- I don't like the "doing anything takes stamina" systems in video games. Run, goodbye stamina. Light attack, goodbye half stamina. Strong attack, goodbye over 3/4 of my fucking stamina bar. Granted this is all at the beginning, in the prison level, and I'm sure you can buff your stamina bar as you progress. But I still don't like stamina-based systems; it's my fucking personal preference and I'm sticking to my guns.
- The parry mechanic is clunky as fuck and I sometimes couldn't get it to work. Don't give me any "lol git gud scrub" bullshit -- I have a lot of experience in action and especially fighting games and I'm pretty good with timing and execution. (Just one of a trillion examples, I Pure Platinumed all chapters, in all difficulties, in Bayonetta with both Bayo and Jeanne.) Also parrying is useless for bosses.
- Combine all of the above, and the first boss battle, the giant fat troll thing in the jail, was not fun. I beat him after only one retry (which again proves it's not an issue of "git gud," it's an issue of me not having fun) because I figured out that all you had to do was bring a shit ton of healing, run circles around the boss, look for an opening, take advantage of said opening and chip away damage, and hope that he doesn't hit you with one of his giant swinging, massively damage moves that you can neither roll away from nor parry. (Not that the roll does anything anyway, since he just throws himself on the ground, AND it takes fucking stamina to do that!)
That of course is wrapped up in one of the ugliest game worlds I've ever seen. I'm thinking, ok maybe it's just the jail level, it will get better after that. Nope, still ugly shit even after the jail.
Again, I'm admitting that maybe coming to Souls from a fast, stylish, colorful Japanese character action game with a heavy emphasis on dodging, parrying, and combos, was probably not the best transition. I'm also admitting that I didn't play for long enough to maybe have the game "click" with me. It's also my understanding that many improvements were done after Dark Souls 1 (an IRL buddy kept raving about Sekiro, for example, so I went ahead and bought that on a sale).
I will give Dark Souls 1 another try, a genuine one. But man, as far as combat went, first impressions were NOT good. At all. I know this series is a GAF darling but super fans need to understand that not every game is to everyone's liking.
But, its unfair to compare both games directly,because they essentially belong to a different genre and each have their own appeal, the reason FROM games became so popular is because they offered something different than a traditional character action game, be exploration, enemy design, hundreds of hours in the campaing, character design, beating challenging bosses with a limited arsenal etc.
Both Bayonetta and Dark Souls were acclaimed by critics for different reasons, but FROM's design just proved to be more popular
I also prefer Bayonetta and Devil May Cry games to most of FROM outpout, but at that time, Gamers didn’t want a linear 10 hour stylish action game with very short levels were you play as a beautiful queen, they wanted an epic, gritty RPG wich Dark Souls delivered.
However, you CAN in fact, place Bayonetta's combat and engine on an open world action RPG and watch it become a big hit (Nier Automata)
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
OP is getting flak not because his opinion on DD has better combat than Souls series, its because his entire thread is low effort and lazy, he couldn't even bother explain himself so people can have proper discussion.
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InfiniteCombo
Banned
Of course, and you said it really well -- they are different things, and I never expected them to be.
All I was trying to say in my original post (which you and a couple of others got, but some others didn't get) was that the transition from Bayonetta to Dark Souls was a likely culprit in my initial negative reaction to Dark Souls. That's why I said I want to come back to Dark Souls with the right mindset, so that I can enjoy it for what it truly is.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Of course. I agree that the OP was low effort and almost troll-ish in that regard.
Thankfully a lot of people have come after that and now there's an actual discussion going on.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Souls combat is great if you like furry porn and repeating shit over and over, basically like folding those nice cocktail parasols made in sweatshops by little Chinese kids. (don't believe me? next time open up the tip of it and see that Chinese newspaper unfold)
Now on a more normal note.
Elden ring was good, fuck and i say absolutely fuck 99% of the souls fanbase (most on gaf here are cool) but overal the gatekeeping is insane, the games can be good but holy shit hyperbole. If you want to trigger me use the word souls-like
Now on a more normal note.
Elden ring was good, fuck and i say absolutely fuck 99% of the souls fanbase (most on gaf here are cool) but overal the gatekeeping is insane, the games can be good but holy shit hyperbole. If you want to trigger me use the word souls-like
PaddyOCanager
Member
I'd like to see what Dragon's Dogma 2 brings to the table though.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
dumb threads = best threads
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
DD was ok until you realized the number crunching soon became way more important than any kind of skillful play as you just spammed and exploited the most effective at dps moves ad nauseam to down samey and increasingly bullet spongey enemies with ridiculous HP in the least slow manner.
As for the whole feet stabbing in other games, it's overexaggerated, few enemies are so big and those may have systems like hitting their atttack appendages, weak points and other parts, plus you always have the ranged attack option. Climbing in DD is clumsy and hardly involving, it's no SOTC
As for the whole feet stabbing in other games, it's overexaggerated, few enemies are so big and those may have systems like hitting their atttack appendages, weak points and other parts, plus you always have the ranged attack option. Climbing in DD is clumsy and hardly involving, it's no SOTC
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Astral Dog
Member
Its alright, not all games click at the same time
You don't miss much imo i tried replaying Dark Souls 1 recently and just couldn't, it feels too janky and slow, had my fill with FROM games, they are solid but i just prefer playing other action games. (also they require a lot of time investment and patience so they aren't for everybody)
I recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and move straight to Dark Souls 3.it not only has better graphics/art, but superior controls as well. The plot is irrelevant