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[Buggy Loop]

Ok so no VR gaming demo is a big question mark. All demos are stationary..

If I was single and wanted to buy a >98” OLED for movies, this beats that, for families it doesn’t make sense. But a 100 ft screen would be pretty fucking rad.

But no gaming VR..

I still think we’re headed toward this ultimately, competition will copy. That it even has a ready player one face projected outward is nuts.

 

[chonga]

The intial shock is one thing. but if you think about it... its like a macbook pro with the best goggles ever. Still overpriced for the everyday consumer, But as bad as you would think concidering all the parts.

Which would be fine if they pitched it as a device with a more narrow focus, say business/professional use cases etc. But they've tried to give it mass appeal. Which just isn't gonna work at that price point.

Like a Ferrari I'm sure is a masterful piece of engineering and can justify the price, but they're not trying to flog it to the average guy on the street.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

Seriously, why the ...99 at the end? People that will buy this count money in the thousands, not ones...
And...

Apple fans:

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Apple is trying to challenge Sony and meta quest.

And they will succeed - even at that price

 

[bitbydeath]

hopefully you are talking in general, and not at me for simply linking a video. lol

Haha, yes. People in general.

 

[rapid32.5]

In today's economy more like 6998 $

 

[Hot5pur]

It's exciting that apple is getting involved given their vast resources, and it's an impressive piece of kit. The price is a red herring because it's not for the average consumer, just like the Tesla Model S/X is not for your average car buyer. This is a product to build their brand as the premium product in VR/AR. It's probably part of a long roadmap to capture the entire market. By that point it will likely not look so ridiculous and have a smaller footprint (face print?).

Personally I think VR is really only good for gaming. Why do I need a headset when I can do all of the stuff on the phone or on a computer, and do it better, what problem is it solving?

Even VR for gaming is limiting. The games will likely always look worse in VR, and be quite limiting in terms of movement and other precise actions. The brain can already make the adjustment to give me enough immersion so I feel like I am the character I'm playing.

I dunno, it seems all these companies are looking for the next hottest thing in entertainment but this ain't it. Focus more on self driving cars so I don't have to spend a good portion of my day driving. And maybe make traffic less of a problem with cars synced to each other.

 

[E-Cat]

It's clear that you're not well versed in the existing VR products out there. Nothing you mentioned is revolutionary in the least. Things like the advent of room scale, inside out tracking, wireless stand-alone, etc. were revolutionary. A better screen, better pass through, and 'persona scanning' are not. There's nothing you mentioned that makes this incomparable to something like the Index, PSVR2, Quest Pro, etc..

It's simply an evolution of current tech and at stupid price point.

I don't doubt that certain Apple fanboys will eat it up though.

Whether "evolutionary" or "revolutionary", I think we can all agree that Apple has def brought some tech forward by a couple of years owing to their superior scale and supply chain.

I consider myself fairly well-versed as far as following the AR/VR space goes, and some of this stuff I definitely haven't seen in a consumer headset, including the ray-traced audio stuff to analyze the room, completely gesture and voice based controls of the operating system, photorealistic avatar etc. I know Meta showed off a photorealistic Zuck at some conference, but that was years away from commercial deployment afaik.

 

[THE DUCK]

Well it's neat, but in typically apple style, it's massively overpriced. Won't sell many (as they expect) and has many years before it will be mainstream.
Kind of not exciting in that regard. Hopefully it does at least more forward VR in general.

 

[Gamer79]

$3500? Epic Failure out of the board. Who could really justify this price? The apple tax continues to Rape

 

[Fbh]

This should be on OT side. It's a business/productivity headset, not one for gaming.

I've seen a few people say this around here but that's definitely not how their marketing is presenting it.
The 9 minutes video on their main channel spends twice as long on things like watching/taking photos and entertainment than it does on work or productivity


If you compare it to the "main video" of the quest pro (albeit a much shorter one):


The communication on that one seems way more business focused.
That's not to say businesses aren't going to be one of the big early adopters of the Apple Vision. But Apple definitely seem to be presenting it as something intended for everyone with entertainment being a big factor.

 

[lh032]

free psvr2 marketing

 

[hinch7]

Three thousand.. five hundred dollars

I knows its Apple, but....

 

[E-Cat]

$3500? Epic Failure out of the board. Who could really justify this price? The apple tax continues to Rape

It's either $3,500 now or $500 in five years. I'd rather have it exist for $3,500 now even if I won't buy it, because in five years the ecosystem will be that much more fleshed out due to early adopters. Is this way of thinking too advanced for you?

 

[VAVA Mk2]

 

[Gamer79]

It's either $3,500 now or $500 in five years. I'd rather have it exist for $3,500 now even if I won't buy it, because in five years the ecosystem will be that much more fleshed out due to early adopters. Is this way of thinking too advanced for you?

No I think logically not with your asinine logic. The economy is in the shitter right now. I saw 0 software that separates this from any other headset. People are not going to spend $3500 on a headset. Yes the hardcore apple cult will buy it but it will not be enough to be successful. They set themselves up for failure.

 

[Rivet]

I hope it will somewhat succeed despite being ridiculously expensive. It's definitely a bold move going straight to AR with no controller, it's probably the good choice for what they want to do. But right now it looks more like a prototype than something that will sell millions.

We need the ease of traditional glasses and an under $1000 price, so we probably need like 10 more years to get there. AR glasses will probably be immensely successful one day, just not now at that price with that look.

 

[E-Cat]

Well it's neat, but in typically apple style, it's massively overpriced. Won't sell many (as they expect) and has many years before it will be mainstream.
Kind of not exciting in that regard. Hopefully it does at least more forward VR in general.

Unlike "typical Apple style", I can actually see the value in this product. It's not a bullshit premium, like a fucking screen stand for $999. No, it's not 'affordable' -- but has good value for the hardware you're getting? I would say so.

 

[Joramun]

lmao. what

this will be for the hardcore fanboys and chinese peeps with deep pockets

 

[E-Cat]

No I think logically not with your asinine logic. The economy is in the shitter right now. I saw 0 software that separates this from any other headset. People are not going to spend $3500 on a headset. Yes the hardcore apple cult will buy it but it will not be enough to be successful. They set themselves up for failure.

Let's break down your comment, shall we? The kind of people who can afford a $3,500 headset are not affected by the economy being in the shitter. Also, I wouldn't say it's that bad, employment and general savings are still high and disinflation is progressing steadily, we're getting a soft landing and maybe a mild recession for a year or so; could be worse. The reason you saw zero software that separates this from any other headset is precisely the incentive for Apple to release this early version of the headset to early adopters and developers. Do you think they'd be better off if they did not do that and released a cheap, mass-marketed version in 5 years with no feedback loop and zero experience in the market? Are you dumb or something?

 

[Synless]

I would buy this… I want to buy it, but not with 2 hour battery life. I’m going to wait this one out a few gens.

 

[Superkewl]

wonder if it will give people motion sickness or neck pain, or other issues associated with VR

 

[Gamer79]

Also 2 hour battery life. A battery you have to put in your pocket or on your belt. Insane.

They marketed watching movies with it but plenty of moves run over 2 hours. You can't watch entire films on one charge?

The Quest 2 is literally less than 1/10th the price while I can score a $35 headset upgrade that gives the quest 2 6-8 hours of battery life. Apple is smoking crack with that price.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

lmao. what

this will be for the hardcore fanboys and chinese peeps with deep pockets

Why everyone thinks that a fanboy will buy $3500 device? By that logic he bought all devices before it. Stupid.

 

[Gamer79]

Let's break down your comment, shall we? The kind of people who can afford a $3,500 headset are not affected by the economy being in the shitter.

You stated the problem. They are marketing it towards the wealthy and that is a small percentage of the population. Most of the wealthy will have no desire for this so it becomes even more of a niche product. It will never be mainstream at that price.

 

[E-Cat]

You stated the problem. They are marketing it towards the wealthy and that is a small percentage of the population. Most of the wealthy will have no desire for this so it becomes even more of a niche product. It will never be mainstream at that price.

You're almost getting it. It's not meant to be mainstream at that price. And it won't.

 

[Roufianos]

I'm pretty sure my laptop, phone and TV already do these things a lot more intuitively than this ever will. What exactly is the appeal of augmented reality when you don't need it.

 

[RoadHazard]

I've seen a few people say this around here but that's definitely not how their marketing is presenting it.
The 9 minutes video on their main channel spends twice as long on things like watching/taking photos and entertainment than it does on work or productivity


If you compare it to the "main video" of the quest pro (albeit a much shorter one):


The communication on that one seems way more business focused.
That's not to say businesses aren't going to be one of the big early adopters of the Apple Vision. But Apple definitely seem to be presenting it as something intended for everyone with entertainment being a big factor.

Alright, but it's definitely no VR gaming headset. The only mention of gaming in that presentation is about playing flat 2D games on a virtual AR screen. Nothing about actual VR gaming at all. This isn't a VR headset, it's AR.

 

[RoadHazard]

Except is it? Can I get 3rd party apps from the internet or is this like iOS where I can’t side load? Did they explain this and I missed it?

This is quite clearly an iPhone you strap to your face, not a Mac (i.e. no installing whatever you want).

 

[reinking]

$3500!!!

I am waiting for the Vision Po' version.

 

[Ribi]

I genuinely like their move as marketing it as a virtual desktop. Unfortunately I have 0 reason to believe it's be as smooth as their bullshit marketing makes it seem. Also fuck apple

 

[LakeOf9]

$3500? So they want it to fail?

 

[SmokedMeat]

 

[E-Cat]

$3500? So they want it to fail?

Analogous to the Tesla business model:

1. Release extremely low-volume sports car: Roadster <-- Apple headset you are here
2. Release low-volume premium sedan: Model S
3. Release medium-volume premium compact sedan: Model 3
4. Release high-volume economy car (2024-2025)
5. ?
6. Profit

Do this while you build the software, vertically integrated supply chain and ecosystem (Superchargers) and own the market.

 

[64bitmodels]

I genuinely like their move as marketing it as a virtual desktop. Unfortunately I have 0 reason to believe it's be as smooth as their bullshit marketing makes it seem. Also fuck apple

i dont like apple myself.... but their software engineering is very good. They probably did bullshot it in a couple places but i have no reason to think that it won't be close to as seamless as the presentation suggests

 

[Roni]

Apple understands trend setting like no one else: build something that works and sell it to rich people; the rest will come in due time...

They're not wrong. A lot of people will start buying this second hand after hearing their bosses, CEO's and rich friends bragging about it and the newer generations come out.

Give it enough time and people will be mortgaging this thing just so they can get their hands on the latest model, even though they can't really afford it.

It already happens with iPhones...

 

[Neo_game]

I am sure the display, sound is going to be amazing but it seems a very expensive Ipad Pro

 

[FullMetalx117]

No I think logically not with your asinine logic. The economy is in the shitter right now. I saw 0 software that separates this from any other headset. People are not going to spend $3500 on a headset. Yes the hardcore apple cult will buy it but it will not be enough to be successful. They set themselves up for failure.

When it goes up for pre order, it's going to sell out immediately. How many more examples of "Who's going to spend $1000+ for a phone" or "who's going to spend $150+ for ear buds" do we need before it starts getting old.

 

[64bitmodels]

When it goes up for pre order, it's going to sell out immediately. How many more examples of "Who's going to spend $1000+ for a phone" or "who's going to spend $150+ for ear buds" do we need before it starts getting old.

i mean yeah... but there's a pretty big gulf of cash between 1000 and 3500 dollars. even if everyone wants it no one will be able to buy it unless you're omega rich

 

[Rusty Shackelford]

 

[DavJay]

Too expensive and devs just won’t be incentivized to create for it because of the limited audience.

 

[FullMetalx117]

i mean yeah... but there's a pretty big gulf of cash between 1000 and 3500 dollars. even if everyone wants it no one will be able to buy it unless you're omega rich

It's a lot for sure but it's still not car level expensive. Like the barrier to entry for $3500 is much lower and much more easily attainable than an average car so a large market should exist. We have more buy now/pay later services than ever and I can see more average income people resorting to these to get this (a much easier process than car loan although I would advice against, but masses don't understand that).

The enthusiast crowd will easily make this sell out day one similar to graphics cards. There is no product with this level of tech out there right now, it's definitely an eye catcher and if you're into technology (and have money) you want this and are excited about this. In my opinion, an exciting tech product launch like this hasn't happened since the original Tesla Model S (post iphone tech release).

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Lol, no it isn’t.

Of course it is.

It's almost a full frame worth of latency at 60fps and 60fps isn't nearly enough for VR gaming.

 

[Corian33]

Many of the comments here are from people with the same mindset as companies that made better, cheaper MP3 players to compete with the iPod when Apple was already designing the iPhone.

I’m not even an Apple fanboy, it just is the way it is. Come back to this thread in ten years and it will seem like the most obvious thing in the world.

 

[stickkidsam]

People in here actually thinking the utility of the iPhone is comparable to a pair of goggles with goo goo eyes lmao

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Analogous to the Tesla business model:

1. Release extremely low-volume sports car: Roadster <-- Apple headset you are here
2. Release low-volume premium sedan: Model S
3. Release medium-volume premium compact sedan: Model 3
4. Release high-volume economy car (2024-2025)
5. ?
6. Profit

Do this while you build the software, vertically integrated supply chain and ecosystem (Superchargers) and own the market.

This shit is not a car.

People will pay top dollar for a car because it has essential primary utility.

This doesn't.

It's an AR toy that doesn't do anything meaningful over other devices a fraction of the price, while being marketed towards commercial enterprises without giving any practical superior use case for the device.

Apple fans will buy whatever their lord shits out. But why should early adopters or businesses buy this?

What functionality does it offer that can't be done on significantly cheaper devices?

It's a joke.

 

[E-Cat]

Too expensive and devs just won’t be incentivized to create for it because of the limited audience.

Because it will always remain at that high price? C'mon...

 

[FullMetalx117]

People in here actually thinking the utility of the iPhone is comparable to a pair of goggles with goo goo eyes lmao

There was a time the utility of the iphone also didn't make sense - "why would I pay this much money to have internet on my phone". Apple made it the norm and must have

 

[diffusionx]

Whether "evolutionary" or "revolutionary", I think we can all agree that Apple has def brought some tech forward by a couple of years owing to their superior scale and supply chain. Like the RGB subpixel, high-brightness 5000+ nits micro-OLED that was only at a prototype scale at a company like eMagin, and they were only a military contractor and not shipping to consumer companies due to lacking sufficient fabrication tech. They just got bought out by Samsung Electronics, so maybe we'll hear about them in a year or two.

I consider myself fairly well-versed as far as following the AR/VR space goes, and some of this stuff I definitely haven't seen in a consumer headset, including the ray-traced audio stuff to analyze the room, completely gesture and voice based controls of the operating system, photorealistic avatar etc. I know Meta showed off a photorealistic Zuck at some conference, but that was years away from commercial deployment afaik.

This thing is so out of wack to the rest of the market I simply have no idea how to process it. It's also doing stuff that is totally different from what everyone else is doing. It definitely reminds me of the original iPod and iPhone, where Apple took a product that did exist on the market and built out their own paradigm and understanding of it. The classic comment from Slashdot "Less space than a Nomad. Lame" sums up the typical computer nerd thinking, and of course people dogged on the iPhone for a lack of stylus. In both cases Apple was proven right. But just because it reminds me of those two doesn't mean that this is another one or that Apple will be proven right in five years. I have no dout that there are tons of people ready to spend the money on this, but that is simply conspicuous consumption. It doesn't mean it is on the path to successful. We are already seeing the "why are you poor lmao" comments, which is exactly what Apple wants.

Is this Vision Pro going to establish and legitimtize VR/AR going forward, or just some weird novelty that Apple will evolve and simplify over time (I would argue this is how the Apple Watch has gone, where if you look at the original presentation it is clear they had grand plans but it turned out to be a glorified fitness tracker in the end, although a reasonably successful one). Nobody knows.

Microsoft was working on devices just like this, but they abandoned it, whether from lack of vision or lack of desire to put something out this expensive, I don't know, but I wonder what former members of their HoloLens/MR team are thinking right now.

 

[E-Cat]

This shit is not a car.

People will pay top dollar for a car because it has essential primary utility.

This doesn't.

It's an AR toy that doesn't do anything meaningful over other devices a fraction of the price, while being marketed towards commercial enterprises without giving any practical superior use case for the device.

Apple fans will buy whatever their lord shits out. But why should early adopters or businesses buy this?

What functionality does it offer that can't be done on significantly cheaper devices?

It's a joke.

It's also an order-of magnitude cheaper than a car. I can tell you that besides Apple fanboys, AR/VR enthusiasts are absolutely drooling over this thing because it is more advanced than any other headset currently in the market. And that's really all Apple needs for this first iteration. Rumour has it they're already working on a 2024 version that's like $1,500.