Then PS4 is more in line with a 1.5x power of Wii U -- GCN vs Xbox type scenario.
The difference isn't that big. It's like a high-end PC game running at low settings = Wii U, compared to Max settings = Next Xbox.
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Then PS4 is more in line with a 1.5x power of Wii U -- GCN vs Xbox type scenario.
The difference isn't that big. It's like a high-end PC game running at low settings = Wii U, compared to Max settings = Next Xbox.
I see the Wii U as being maaaybe 2.5 times the 360 (using our favorite bullshitty 360 metric just to simplify things).
I see the PS720 being somewhere around 10 times the 360.
Which means that the PS720 would be about 4 times the Wii U - not nearly the gap that we saw between the Wii and the PS360.
Still, I'm my usual jaded self. I see plenty of bullshit excuses from western third-party developers and publishers. But I'm a bit more optimistic about Japanese third-party developers.
I see the PS720 being somewhere around 10 times the 360.
Which means that the PS720 would be about 4 times the Wii U - not nearly the gap that we saw between the Wii and the PS360.
Still, I'm my usual jaded self. I see plenty of bullshit excuses from western third-party developers and publishers. But I'm a bit more optimistic about Japanese third-party developers.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I wouldnt worry. The gulf between the best the Wii had to offer and the best the 360 did will be no where near as big this time around until maybe the end of the generation when everyone has tapped these consoles out.
bgassassin
Member
I'm still going to lean more towards 2x at minimum for PS4, but at least now you have the context behind why I've said what I've said. And why Wii U's GPU will be key in determining how big the gap will be.
Don't go insane.
The differences will be much more subtle, and those whining about the lack of power are going to look absolutely ridiculous. It's going to be one of those situations where we have to say silly things like, "Look at the lighting at the thirty-two second mark! It's kinda better!" and "the furniture is slightly jaggier in this version - if you squint" and "look at the character's backpack texture - it's a bit nicer if you're two feet away from the TV screen!"
If we're having to hunt for differences and freezeframe videos to see the differences, we've reached ridiculousness.
If it costs millions more in development budgets in order to reach those differences, we've reached ridiculousness.
If developers go out of business because they're convinced that their games are garbage without these differences, we've reached ridiculousness.
Just remember: the best revenge is to live well. Enjoy Nintendo's new console and games. That's all we can really do.
(and if you're into schadenfreude - just wait a bit.)
I said high-end. If Wii U is 2x current-gen, PS4 is ~3.5-4x Wii U.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yeah I knew that, bad wording on my part, my baaaaaad. Either way, I think Sony is doing the right thing if they go that route.
My post wasn't directed to you as it was clearly giving Blackjace an example to ease his mind.
Kacho
Member
It's funny because you know it will happen. Still, if those are the types of differences we can expect with the next three consoles, I'll be just fine.
bgassassin
Member
Gotcha. And I agree. The question remaining now is how far above that did MS go? Early signs pointed to them being more on par with PS4, but that's apparently not the case anymore.
Your example wasn't a remotely realistic scenario.
Father_Brain
Banned
Don't get me wrong - you generally seem to know what you're talking about, but why do insiders (?) like you and StevieP seem to have so much trouble making release date predictions? You predicted that Xbox 3 would launch this year after the Halo 4 announcement telegraphed from miles away that this wasn't going to happen, you were predicting earlier this year that Wii U would launch a month after E3 when the logistics on the retailer end alone made that impossible, you were apparently a year off on PS4 as well, and last I saw, you were predicting that Wii U would launch in September, even though Iwata pretty much said that it would launch in Q4 (as is also reflected in the decision not to announce launch details at E3).
Obviously, specs and release dates aren't the same thing, but it's hard for me not to see a pattern here.
AceBandage
Banned
bigtroyjon
Member
Read his post above, you are supposed to ignore the stuff that is clearly wrong in his post and only focus on the stuff that we don't know is right or wrong yet.
Well, considering the targets they're aiming for, it's no wonder we won't see or hear anything about it til next year.
See, I don't know why we're using qualifiers like "stopgap" for WiiU. It's like saying that PS2 was a "stopgap", but no one would dare to suggest such a thing. I do understand that WiiU will be the weakest in hardware, but this "half-step" and "stopgap" stuff really rubs me the wrong way, since this is the first time it's ever really been used and seems like it's drummed up as such because "it's Nintendo".
Notice the word 'IF' at the start of my example? 2X the Wii U for PS4 is still a possibility.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
they're either going to have a PS2 to PS3 moment (though less of a decline considering PS2s success), or they'll emulate the same success as the 360. I don't know why but I don't see them doing a lot better.
Assuming Wii U is 3-4x current-gen.
With Kinect 2, I think the next xbox could lauch at $500+ and still be a wild success.
I have heard like bg says that Microsoft has been convinced to go bolder but I just dont know if I personally think it will happen. It really does nothing for microsoft to suddenly try and leapfrog the PS4/Wii U by a large margin because its much more likely that the PS4/Wii U would be the market driver as far as effort.
Financially it makes 0 sense for any 3rd party to invest a ton of extra cash to use any huge gap of power the nextbox would offer and then have to downport to the two others. Far more likely they would go witht he PS4/Wii U budget and just upscale.
That said I will admit Rein has probably too much infleunce over at Microsoft.
Financially it makes 0 sense for any 3rd party to invest a ton of extra cash to use any huge gap of power the nextbox would offer and then have to downport to the two others. Far more likely they would go witht he PS4/Wii U budget and just upscale.
That said I will admit Rein has probably too much infleunce over at Microsoft.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
What role does embedded memory have in making games better again?
BG, any rumors on what the PS4/Xbox 3 might be rocking in that regard? I noticed it was the only real extra thing that was in your Power Level post that wasnt in the others.
BG, any rumors on what the PS4/Xbox 3 might be rocking in that regard? I noticed it was the only real extra thing that was in your Power Level post that wasnt in the others.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Does that mean it will cost twice as much to produce?
Gamer @ Heart
Member
We will be to busy playing [secret game] and mario at launch to care.
bgassassin
Member
Why so serious? You want me to say November like others? When Iwata says it's November then it will be November. People like to say Wii U is weaker than PS360. But despite any tangible proof that shows this to not be the case, they still say it. And that is something worth getting hung up on. Me and my random release dates isn't.
It brings the payment plan stuff into perspective.
Yep. The other stuff was really smoke and mirrors for the purpose of the thread.
Well your other choices are weaker than PS360 and on par with PS360. At the same time with PS2, Xbox wasn't heavily (if at all) in the discussion at the time, and to this day you still have some people debating GC's power compared to PS2. So it wasn't in the same position as Wii U.
Well you know my take on MS. I don't want to see them fail, but I think their decisions put them in position to be the first to exit.
Father_Brain
Banned
Right now, I honestly think that Rein (along with some of his counterparts at DICE and Crytek) is just completely deluded about how big a differentiator graphical capabilities will be next gen, and for the reasons you stated, I have a very hard time believing that MS could gain any real commercial advantage from going down that road.
Not only is this a multiplatform era, but I'd say we've already reached the point of diminishing returns. Even Samaritan doesn't look like a full generational leap beyond the most impressive titles on current HD consoles.
(I'm personally not quite confident yet that Wii U will end up being fully included in the same multiplatform ecosystem as PS4/Xbox 3, but that has more to do with Nintendo's longer-running historical weaknesses - audience cultivation, third-party relations in general - than with concerns about its specs.)
StreetsAhead
Member
No, just that you need twice as many jobs to pay for it.
Does anyone really think we could see a "$599 moment" again from one of the console makers this time around?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
agreed, though I don't think anyone should underestimate how much they're willing to spend on marketing to ensure success. But that could lead to more problems. Guess we'll see. It's gonna be a very interesting generation.
The list sounds accurate, but i don't know if I believe all of those will be in launch window. But I think people put too much trust into store computer systems.
Lets not forget when EBgames thought a Donkey Kong Country 3D was coming for 3DS and had all of this boxart available for it only to find out it wasn't real.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
StreetsAhead
Member
I hope not.
Although, it would be pretty funny to watch the meltdowns.
Damnit, 29 days?? I need Pikmin 3 now!
I'mma watch the Rayman trailer again and calm down.
Hmm. I'm not taking time off for E3 Monday this year, but if this is a good possibility for the others' next-gen systems, I might have to use some vacation time for more of E3 2013 Week, hehe..
(good thing being, there won't be a Wii U Launch Week and a Zelda Symphony taking-up vacation time next year..)
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Do you expect the PS720 to cost 4* what the Wii U does?
I think Microsoft is in an odd spot overall. Investors etc were super pissed off about the xbox division and the money sink its been. But investors have very short term memories when they suddenly start seeing money. The division has made a small amount of profits now and suddenly the desire for bloodshed is diminished.
Pulling a Mark Rein and supercharging the nextbox could quickly bring back the headhunters
Oh goodness no.. I suspect that they'll go with another heavy loss leader model once again.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Oh look at all those games I wouldn't buy.
StreetsAhead
Member
You'll buy Damaged Consoles and love it.
pikmin?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If they're betting on Pikmin to be their big launch title, there really are NO WORDS
It'll probably be NSMBMii
...:/
It'll probably be NSMBMii
...:/
Same for me. Hopefully they reveal games I want at E3.
This is why I'm not too sure I want a Wii U at launch. If they launch with these two titles then I would have to hold off until I see something I really want.
Here's the problem.
Technology costs are dropping more and more.
Microsoft is planning a deal to sell Xbox 360 at $99...So the cost to manufacture it is probably a lot less.
Do people really think a Wii U that is 2x more than 360 would cost a huge amount of money to manufacture?
It won't be the graphics processing power that makes Wii U expensive. It will be all of the other things like the controller, etc.
Guaranteed Game of the Year.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Pikmin will be the best launch title but it's a terrible excuse for a system seller.
I agree with your second sentence.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Plus, while they will have that "Wii Sports-type title", Pikmin might be the best "core" game to really show what the controller can do.
bgassassin
Member
Their system memory bandwidth should be sufficient enough to eliminate the need for eDRAM or at least for PS4.
Also for me it doesn't make sense for the platform holder in that they are the ones that have to deal with the burden of losing money on the console and with the exclusive becoming a thing of the past, they aren't guaranteed to get the licensing fees to cover those costs. And as you mentioned devs may not put forth the money or effort to maximize their games for the hardware.
Actually I think my primary prediction was that they would abandon gaming (as we know it) once they've successfully gotten in the living room like they planned all along.
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