I think you missed his point. He wasn't talking about whether Sony and Microsoft would pay retail or wholesale prices. He meant that the ram will not be standard ram used in a pc, but would be proprietary. Or at least that's what I think he meant.
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Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I think you missed his point. He wasn't talking about whether Sony and Microsoft would pay retail or wholesale prices. He meant that the ram will not be standard ram used in a pc, but would be proprietary. Or at least that's what I think he meant.
We don't know this yet. It's a good guess it may end up like this, but you really don't know. Sure, they'll all be HD machines finally, but to what extent of HP under each hood?
Like I mentioned, even publishers that already have strong internal engines like Ubisoft and Capcom still license UE3 for major games (Rainbow Six for the former, DmC for the latter). Rockstar is really the only major company that's totally reliant on their own tech.
Well, it really ought to be, otherwise you're severely limiting your PC market.
Looking at some numbers, we're looking at a difference of 6 times as much RAM this gen (88MB to 512MB) to probably just twice as much (rumored 2GB WiiU to expected 4GB PS4/720), coupled with a standard GPU with DX11-like functions in all next-gen consoles, while the Wii was DX7 when PS3 and 360 were DX9 which made direct porting a chore. No, whatever Nintendo-bashing "journalists" ("manbabies" would be more accurate) want you to believe, the difference won't be as high, and will probably be limited to the difference between a game on Medium settings to Very High settings.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Remember when GAF thought that Wii games would look like 360 games, just in 480p? That was cute.
Thinking more about this. Even if the Wii U couldn't run UE4 would it even matter? I don't think it does at all. As someone suggested it would be years before you see an actual UE4 game. Lets say 2014/2015. That's three years from now at the earliest. Even then it would be from very few developers (maybe just one or two) and just one or two games depending on how many developers attempt to use it. There are developers still using UE2 or variations of it with most using UE3 and still getting a LOT out of it. UE4 is likely only going to matter when the next console cycle starts after the coming (WiiU/PS4/720) cycle simply because of time itself. When it does the Wii U will be at the end of it's life and Nintendo will be preparing their new console.
This really is not worth getting worked up about in the end I feel.
What's going to matter more in the next 5 years is how well Wii U (and other systems) run UE3. How unique the games will be will be important as well.
This really is not worth getting worked up about in the end I feel.
What's going to matter more in the next 5 years is how well Wii U (and other systems) run UE3. How unique the games will be will be important as well.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Epic has said they want UE4 games to come out very soon after next gen consoles release (PS4/nextBox). It matters because if third parties build their games on UE4 and UE4 can't run on the Wii U, then those are games won't arrive on Wii U.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
One console future? And I've given up on Sony, MS and 3rd parties ability to do reasonable things. And some games won't hit PC (not a lot). And I'll have to buy another in 5 years.
With Nintendo's 1st party output, it's worth it. But it should be worth it for Nintendo to ensure that UE4 hits their platform.
Many games may be in UE4 and still hit the WiiU but it's frustrating, knowing the history of 3rd parties and Nintendo, that we still will be split up. I want most 3rd party games coming to PS4/720 to hit the Wii U.
So, I became proactive and decided to get a gaming laptop. But, it's still a stupid situation.
But in turn, that means that third parties will have to make their decision about whether to build on UE4 without any indication as to the size and nature of the userbase on the platforms that engine will support. I wouldn't blame them for being wary.
They can want that all day long but how development actually goes (budget, time, annualization, game content) is going to be a different story. Even then as said saying something isn't targeted toward a piece of hardware is different from saying the engine won't run on it. I just don't think this will be a big deal as some are trying to make it out to be.
I Stalk Alone
Member
What is funny is the guy asks if he can give a hint. keighley says no as in he cannot give a hint. he then explains that in gdc capps said wiiu was using ue3 at that time.
You then get members getting the exact opposite from his statement as if he did give a hint. I am not suprised at the lack of comprehension but is it possible to have a purposeful lack of comprehension due to a misguided personal agenda? Even nkw that it has been clarified twice by the source (keighley) and the subject (epic), the thread has now turned into this cavalcade of comedy.
I salute this coming week and all it stands for. Do not let me down as this is the week where "jumping to conclusions" is the number one meta game during this E3.
You then get members getting the exact opposite from his statement as if he did give a hint. I am not suprised at the lack of comprehension but is it possible to have a purposeful lack of comprehension due to a misguided personal agenda? Even nkw that it has been clarified twice by the source (keighley) and the subject (epic), the thread has now turned into this cavalcade of comedy.
I salute this coming week and all it stands for. Do not let me down as this is the week where "jumping to conclusions" is the number one meta game during this E3.
A big bullet point when UE4 first got that initial showing was that it would help cut development times quite significantly, and thus, costs. I can imagine developers being interested in getting on that as soon as possible.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I believe the quote was actually that UE3 games would be prevalent during the first few years of the next console generation and then we'd see UE4. I swear Epic said not even to expect UE4 games for the first couple years of the new consoles.
I hadn't read that they want UE4 to be "very soon" after next gen consoles release.
Boss Man
Member
Modern Warfare 4, for example, is now rumored to be on UE4.
Granted, that is an actual rumor and we definitely don't know that for sure yet. I think this UE4 not running on Wii U business has been pretty much set in stone for a while though, we just don't know how important it's going to be yet.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You'd essentially have to make 2 different versions of the game though if you want it to run on anything other than the small initial next gen console user base + high end pc people. Mid range pcs and lower + the wii u + current consoles + current iOS devices + vita would be out of the loop.
The amount of money saved on UE4 costs would have to be a metric shit ton to equal all of those platforms being cut out of the loop. Plus even if it's much more efficient it's still going to be new so there will be a learning curve no matter what for devs.
That sounds like a common sales pitch. Epic wants people buy their engine above all all else. Remember they are selling a product here. Only time will tell if that's true though. However most sales pitches tend to at best stretch the truth and exaggerate and at worse contain outright lies.
Somebody would have to break an NDA for any of us to know what the terms are. UE4 could cost the same as UE3 did when it first appeared. Epic also believes the tools they are offering will save developers money in some ways, but nobody will know the end result of that for a few years until some notable games have shipped.
UE3 isn't going anywhere, they even expect it to be used on the next systems to start off with. I still think asset generation will be the biggest hurdle going forward. Shit costs money.
Boss Man
Member
Do we even know if these games would sell well enough on the Wii U for the effort involved to begin with? I honestly don't know, but it just seems like most Wii owners that I've seen "in the wild" (ie, not gaffers) are pretty casual. How well did games like Call of Duty and Xenoblade do in the U.S.?
If the market is there, and these games do sell well, then I have to wonder why third parties weren't focusing more of their blockbuster titles on Wii this generation. It seems like they believe their audience doesn't include Nintendo-only owners, despite the large install base. Otherwise, wouldn't they just port up or at least make a separate version?
You will only know that when you actually put games on the system. You can't judge that ahead of time. CoD on the Wii has consistently done over a million on the system and that is with Activision ignoring it's existence when it comes to marketing and their official website. Nintendo of America significantly screwed Xenoblade over by being afraid to take a chance on it from the start. So we'll never know how well it would have done had it been released a year ago and been given a real push. They even handled Skyward Sword badly in marketing.
Also Wii owners are also people that play on the PC and own PS3s and 360s. Wii owners do not simply equal casual. That shit comparison needs to stop.
Lmao I love these types of posts. You're in for a rude awakening if you seriously think UE3 will remain dominant next Gen. There's a difference between an engine with a DX11 path and an engines built for DX11.
Not to mention the improvements done to the tools, which looks to be a major focus in UE4. Why would devs ignore this just to stick with UE3?
Budgets would be one reason. Also do they have their own in house engines now or not would be a consideration that needs to be factored. People are assuming everyone would in time push aside what they have and just use UE4.
Capcom - MT Framework
EA- Frostbite 2 (they are using it for other games outside of Battlefield 3 I believe?)
Ubisoft - Anvil
Nintendo - Own internal engines
Sony - Various game engines based on series I think
THQ - Their own engines
Wouldn't it be better, more likely and more cost effective for them to continue to changing their own engines going forward and maybe taking what they want from UE4 instead of outright using UE4 straight up? Once they do that who is to say they wouldn't make sure themselves that the their engines continued to run on the Wii U gong forward in addition to newer systems? At that point wouldn't it be possible to have different versions of their engines for different systems?
Boss Man
Member
It's kind of pointless to consider multi-platform owners in this, isn't it? Why would you buy a Wii port of a PS3, 360, or PC game if you could play it on those?
I did not mean to imply that all Wii owners are casual and won't buy these games, I hope I was pretty clear on that. It's just that the huge Wii install base may be misleading, since we'd all expect devs to focus on Wii first. I think a lot of those are casual and probably aren't interested in these games to begin with. The Wii didn't sell a ton of units because of its popularity with gaming enthusiasts, it broke into a larger market that isn't necessarily interested in games like Assassin's Creed or Bioshock. I think both the Wii and PS3 have inflated hardware numbers (relative to software buyers) because there have been a lot of people buying those systems who aren't particularly interested in games. I see this in real life, and we all see it on sales charts.
This is super YMMV and eye-ball data, but if I walk into a house with a Wii, I feel like there's about a 70% chance that they'll have nothing but Wii Sports and a dancing game. If I walk into a house with a PS3, I feel like there's about a 30% chance that they'll only be using it for Blu-rays and Netflix. If I walk into a house with a 360, I 100% expect to see some kind of collection of games. Obviously this isn't actual data, but that's the point I'm trying to discuss.
The question is this:
If it's obvious that developers should spend the time and money on making a Wii U version of these future games because they'll certainly make money off of it, why hasn't it been the case with the Wii? I assume it's because they don't think that Nintendo-only owners, however large the number, are part of their audience. It's a genuine question, they could be looking at something else, and they could be wrong.
Agent Unknown
Member
Some people are trying to rethink what Geoff tweeted as "Well, that was months ago at GDC and his source could have just been referring to the tech demos before the Wii U specs got bumped, ect" but why would Geoff wait until now to spring this very important nugget of info unless he was confident it were true and quite likely meant long term for the Wii U and it's respective compatibility with engines like UE4? And why would he post something major like this if it was still premature and he knew months later there was a serious possibility he'd be called out on it?
According to sources in the Wii U speculation thread, there were several bumps to the hardware to help ease dev concerns but according to those who really dissected the info, these bumps may not have been much more than a few frames here and there. Hopefully the Wii U will eventually be able to run a down scaled version of the UE4 but it's not looking good right now.
My thoughts exactly. Sadly there's no chance either MS or Sony are sane or humble enough to be balanced this way. MS is PC centric and has almost endless piles of cash to burn so what do they care if they don't turn a real profit again this gen? And unless Sony starts correcting a lot of the rediculously stupid and self destructive behavior they carry on in all of their divisions (as was pointed out in the recent NY Times 'Sony is in the fight of their life' article) then they'll be too proud not to jump off the cliff again, no question.
But if they're going to go ahead and do it, MS and Sony both need to be very careful as evidenced by a conversation I had with a co-worker earlier this month. I found out one day he's a gamer so we've been having a lot of conversations about next gen. He plays a lot of 360, and XBL a lot of PC and Steam and also owns both a Wii and recently bought a 3DS. When I asked him what he thought about rising costs of the systems/development along with how that impacts customers along with the rumors that XBox 720 and PS4 may not allow used games, he right away cut me off at the end and said "EA is already pulling things like that (online passes ect). If they even TRY to lock out used games and backwards compatibility, I'll sell my 360 and I won't get the next XBox (he doesn't like Sony anymore so PS4 is already out) and I'll just get a Wii U as my home system and keep using my PC for all of my other games, I won't even hesitate."
I found the conversation interesting because it shows this type of reaction to how MS and Sony are doing things isn't just confined to the internet and seems to possibly be a growing attitude among a lot gaming consumers. And again, this is a guy who right before saying this was talking about how he plays a lot of online games on XBL, he didn't seem too concerned about giving up his tag and achievements. How it will all pan out in the end once the last two consoles and all their details are revealed and how other consumers react after all remains to be seen of course. But I think this example throws at least a small wrench into the whole "Core gamers won't care in the end, they'll just jump to wherever MS and Sony go" line of thinking.
According to sources in the Wii U speculation thread, there were several bumps to the hardware to help ease dev concerns but according to those who really dissected the info, these bumps may not have been much more than a few frames here and there. Hopefully the Wii U will eventually be able to run a down scaled version of the UE4 but it's not looking good right now.
My thoughts exactly. Sadly there's no chance either MS or Sony are sane or humble enough to be balanced this way. MS is PC centric and has almost endless piles of cash to burn so what do they care if they don't turn a real profit again this gen? And unless Sony starts correcting a lot of the rediculously stupid and self destructive behavior they carry on in all of their divisions (as was pointed out in the recent NY Times 'Sony is in the fight of their life' article) then they'll be too proud not to jump off the cliff again, no question.
But if they're going to go ahead and do it, MS and Sony both need to be very careful as evidenced by a conversation I had with a co-worker earlier this month. I found out one day he's a gamer so we've been having a lot of conversations about next gen. He plays a lot of 360, and XBL a lot of PC and Steam and also owns both a Wii and recently bought a 3DS. When I asked him what he thought about rising costs of the systems/development along with how that impacts customers along with the rumors that XBox 720 and PS4 may not allow used games, he right away cut me off at the end and said "EA is already pulling things like that (online passes ect). If they even TRY to lock out used games and backwards compatibility, I'll sell my 360 and I won't get the next XBox (he doesn't like Sony anymore so PS4 is already out) and I'll just get a Wii U as my home system and keep using my PC for all of my other games, I won't even hesitate."
I found the conversation interesting because it shows this type of reaction to how MS and Sony are doing things isn't just confined to the internet and seems to possibly be a growing attitude among a lot gaming consumers. And again, this is a guy who right before saying this was talking about how he plays a lot of online games on XBL, he didn't seem too concerned about giving up his tag and achievements. How it will all pan out in the end once the last two consoles and all their details are revealed and how other consumers react after all remains to be seen of course. But I think this example throws at least a small wrench into the whole "Core gamers won't care in the end, they'll just jump to wherever MS and Sony go" line of thinking.
riceandbeans
Member
Wrong thread.
I agree. I feel Epic is a bit behind the schedules, at the time when UE4 is widely available, the Wii U will already be in its second year. It was a bit different in this gen when UE3 was big straight from the beginning of the gen. Add the current competition for middleware in the mix, and things could go differently this time.
plagiarize
Banned
i wonder if you can move onto the new tools but still use the old engine. i have this hazy memory of the Bioshock devs saying they did something like that.
since the Wii U won't be running DX anything, what can't it do? genuine question. i know the generation of cards rumoured contained a tesselator, even if it was never really used outside of ATI graphics demos.
what are the big differences between SM4.1 and SM5? and does the backwards compatibility of DX11 to DX10 parts (as we saw on PC with Alien Vs Predator where you can run the DX11 code path on DX10 cards, albeit without the DX11 graphical enhancements) potentially come into play outside of the Direct X spec?
missing out on UE4 would be a big problem for the Wii U, so i hope it isn't true, but certainly if UE4 requires DX11 the rumoured basis for the gpu in the Wii U isn't a DX11 part.
I imagine that the transition from UE3 to 4 would be an increadibly easy one. Have the toolsets varied that widely from iteration to iteration?
Agent Unknown
Member
edit: nm
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Why does a thread based on old news have so many posts?
They were referring to his own post with an edit.
I H8 Memes
Member
I mocked the way the Wired article worded some UE4 features, but make no mistake UE4 not needing to bake and compile the same way UE3 does will be a huge cost saving for studios. Yes, studios will be moving over to UE4 as soon as possible.
Agent Unknown
Member
Sorry, my bad.
Because it's about the Wii-U, and news whether old or not is like catnip for these people...
The question is which studios if that might be case. Capcom going to give up MT Framework or Frostbite 2 for EA?
plagiarize
Banned
and yet Capcom and EA have both released games using UE3. i guess a different question would be what does UE4 offer over CE3 which we know is up and running on Wii U?
frankly though, the wealth of developers who have experience with UE3 positions UE4 to likely be as dominant as UE3 was this gen, and losing out on it, AGAIN, would probably be as harmful as it was to miss out on UE3.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Problem is if you want your game on an existing system like say CoD (I'll use that example since MW4 = UE4 rumor) you'd have to make separate games. You think Vevendi is just going to not release MW4 for the 360/PS3/Low-Mid Range PCs and only release it on the PS4/720/High End PCs at launch?
plagiarize
Banned
not necessarily. what if the tools could still bake the levels ready for UE3? i see no technical reason why that wouldn't work and you'd still have the time saving benefits of having the tools show all the lighting and effects as you design them. Cryengine 3 I believe did something along those lines. a lot of the realtime effects on PC were baked for the consoles, but you don't need to bake them until you get them looking right, rather than needing to bake after each tweak until you have the desired end product.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Keighley is my constant.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yep. It's one of the reasons why UE3 was such a flop for PS3/360 as it didn't work on Wii. [/s]
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Problem with CoD is it doesn't run on UE3. It runs on it's own crazy deal that is it's own thing with Quake 3 roots in there some where. That only works with titles/series that are already on UE3.
It was a year before the first Unreal 3 game. Probably a while longer before the first non epic one, i can't recall what game that would be though. Either way, that timeframe seems perfectly reasonable for next gen, if consoles arrive late 2013.
plagiarize
Banned
porting the current CoD engine to the Wii U would be easier than it was producing the Wii ports of COD titles or porting the engine to the PS3 was. if rumours are true, architecturally the Wii U is very similar to the 360.
Forsaken82
Member
Don't be so sure on that... Time saving absolutely, but I expect larger teams and more content as a result (in other words, money spent will offset the time saved). I think we will see fewer 4-6 hour campaigns and we will see more On Disc content.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
lol exactly. epic doesn't need this to run on the Wii U. Seems Nintendo should be more concerned if it doesn't run than Epic.