The Hermit
Member
Someone created it on the E3 gif thread... its one of my fav gifs ever.
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Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Someone created it on the E3 gif thread... its one of my fav gifs ever.
My expectations for it are a little more optimistic than that, but I'm in the same boat. PC for multiplats, Wii U for exclusives and non-PC multiplats.
Some men just want to watch the world burn... Not that we can do anything about it, but it's still entertaining. No matter what's revealed, lots of people on both "sides" are gonna lose their shit.
Horse Armour
Member
Dummy is far from name calling.
Proelite
Member
UE4 is stated to need 2.5 teraflops to run. Wii-U is probably 1-1.5 teraflops in power (based on the GPU in the dev kits). I am thinking developer can make it work. Whats to stop them from doing in the 853 x 480p resolution with lots of AA? Maybe 720p for static scenes, and 480p for hectic scenes.
720/480p 30fps Wii-U UE4 titles vs 1080/720 60fps UE4 Orbis/Durango titles.
It's also quite possible and probable for Nintendo engines to look significantly better. I am prepared to be amazed next week, as I am quite tired of this generation.
720/480p 30fps Wii-U UE4 titles vs 1080/720 60fps UE4 Orbis/Durango titles.
It's also quite possible and probable for Nintendo engines to look significantly better. I am prepared to be amazed next week, as I am quite tired of this generation.
No one's quoted my tag, so I haven't name called anyone. At this point anyone who quotes it will be name calling themselves.
You can drop the resolution to 320x240 and it wouldn't help if you're cpu bound.
The Office (US). Characters Jim and Pam.
Last year when we knew almost nothing about Unreal 4? Give me that crystal ball, dude. I need it for betting on sports.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Red dead redemption, GTA IV, RE5, Assassins Creed, Bioshock, Dead Space, I'm not listing them, but all were not made by small developers and weren't released on the Wii.
And it sounds a lot like a bit of history repeating is all I am saying.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I think last year someone from Epic had mentioned that UE4 would be so awesome and demanding it would be for the next-next gen or something like that and until then there'd be UE3 iterations. A plan they've probably changed as they want to sell all-new stuff to devs ASAP I imagine, regardless of what it offers. Kinda like how CryEngine 3 isn't much beyond 2.x outside multiplatform support, though I'm sure UE4 will offer more than that (but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been retrofit in an UE3 iteration either). But take this with a grain of salt, I could be mixing up other random things, but iirc it was something along those lines.
Edit: and on topic, Epic also said Unreal Engine 3 “probably the way to go” for next gen launch titles so omg, no platform can support UE4, they're all so crap, omg! Alternatively, no surprise that there's no WiiU UE4 specific talk yet, it proves nothing.
Edit again: I quote an interview relevant to my first paragraph. Close, but not quite:
And it's been exactly a year's time since that.
Lol. So because he at the time mentioned they've probably had a rough idea of the then current specs, or even a dev kit, over a year before a system's release, and because he doesn't every other sentence specify exactly what he means when speaking about the next-gen systems and what they'll end up being, if he lumps the WiiU with that or not (lol NDA), you want to speculate the worst. Okay. What can I say. Of course it's the first thing you went and noticed, lol.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
This is why I'm going Wii U/PC next gen. Fuck off, Ninty. This was ur best chance at a one console future/better 3rd party sales. Sony is lost and MS doesn't give a fuck if we buy 6 consoles/refurbs a gen.
You might be right, but there's an awful lot of very significant differences from the previous situation, and it's possible that they'll influence matters.
I took it as him saying that helping out the small devs isn't particularly exciting when the big devs aren't enticed to the system, and free Havoc licenses won't cut it there. I think that doesn't take into account other reasons why big devs might think long and hard about where to go next, though; one enticement to small devs doesn't mean they aren't pushing for other enticements (favourable licensing rates?) to big devs.I'm not quite sure what your response has to do with his statement?
huh?
JasoNsider
Member
I just realized that I'll probably watch the conference, love what I see, get excited about games, then come online and just see people bickering over pixel-counts, per-pixel shaders, texel density, teselation, etc.
It's funny I can actually pin-point the moment where specs stopped mattering for me. It was the first E3 I went to where GameCube, Xbox and the like were on full display. For a solid year before people were debating RAM speed, CPU cycles, die size, etc. non stop. It was actually crazy how many words were written about it without any real games to show. Then, we all stood there and suddenly it became about the games once again. And how silly it felt, to remember that the implementations and artistry from the teams were still, as always, the only thing that mattered to us the players.
As a gameplay developer now, I still have that moment from E3 burned in my memory and it definitely keeps me focused on the important things; fun, great implementations, creativity, artistry and spirit.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there, but it will be something I keep in mind as the Nintendo conference comes to a close next week.
It's funny I can actually pin-point the moment where specs stopped mattering for me. It was the first E3 I went to where GameCube, Xbox and the like were on full display. For a solid year before people were debating RAM speed, CPU cycles, die size, etc. non stop. It was actually crazy how many words were written about it without any real games to show. Then, we all stood there and suddenly it became about the games once again. And how silly it felt, to remember that the implementations and artistry from the teams were still, as always, the only thing that mattered to us the players.
As a gameplay developer now, I still have that moment from E3 burned in my memory and it definitely keeps me focused on the important things; fun, great implementations, creativity, artistry and spirit.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there, but it will be something I keep in mind as the Nintendo conference comes to a close next week.
I see one title named in your list that used Unreal Engine, and it used UE2 at that. After all this is a thread debating about the usefulness and appeal of an Unreal Engine.
And even then, isn't Assassin's Creed III heading to the Wii U anyway?
I Stalk Alone
Member
Just because you are fine with "$500" consoles it does not mean that it is a good idea. Heck I am fine with. $1K console if it was worth it in my eyes but i would not say that it will be a good business decision if i wanted to sell 100 million plus consoles in the generation to break even in 6 years.
Look at sony and MS it will be over 8 years before they can release a new console as they still have not recouped all the losses from all the years they were losing money on selling the machines at a loss end not selling enough software to counter it.
Now ask yourself, do you believe sony or MS is going to sell 100 million consoles with over 50 million alone coming from north america at $399 $499 or even $599? They were unable to do it at $299 at $200 loss per console. Do you really believe MS will sell 100 million and profit with their current model? SONY could not do it and they came off a record generation. MS is starting to really struggle with all the new competition in the entertainment space with having apple, google, sony, samsung, nintendo, and HTC all using non MS platforms. they need to sell at $399 and break even from day one to have any chance of financial sucess, but $399 does not get us 1080p@60fps with 4xAA UE4 max quality does it? You would be lucky to get. 720p@30fps 2xAA UE4 max quality with that budget. We arent talking arbitrary and non educated prices but basically sound speculation on what graphics card equivalent we will be getting at a certain retail price plus calculated loss budget.
I ask you this. how much money in the console budget will MS or Sony put in as part of their gpu budget amd now find a suita le gpu in retail today that represents that budget. will it be $100 of their budget? $150? $200? If it is the the maximum $200 budget so they can get an equivalent $299 retail (yes im being generous) card today then what power are you looking at? Maybe a amd HD7850. So you are looking at $499 console sold at $399 would that be enough you think to see a jump akin to xbox-xbox360? Or are you happy with a HD7850 class gpu on a console that will run on. 300 watt power brick that will be a little larger than the gen1 xbox360?
AndyMoogle
Member
Wii U will obviously not be as powerful as Xbox 3 and PS4; anyone thinking that is delusional.
But, I don't think it's going to be massively underpowered considering its price and the fact that there is a fairly expensive controller included with the console. This time around they have a new architecture instead of an overclocked last gen architecture, so that should not make it as bad as the Wii situation at least.
It's not like there is room for three identical consoles on the market anyway.
Hahaha, I had a similar thought when I first went through a lot of this thread. I understand having Unreal support (this generation) is important for a console but then I look at my game shelf and not very many of the console games I personally buy even use the thing.
Paracelsus
Member
He'll use the console for first party titles only.
Boss Man
Member
So I followed your link, and the first thing I noticed is this:
It looks like Epic has known Wii U specs for well over a year, doesn't consider it next-gen, and as of a year ago didn't know much of anything about PS4/720.
If nothing else, the sheer timescales involved would suggest that more powerful tech for an equivalent price will be available when the latter systems release. Unless one of the companies goes for a full Wii-esque strategy - with a suitably exciting innovation accompanying it - that's to be expected.
I must admit I'm wondering if - after the 3DS situation - Nintendo might be considering taking a small hit on the hardware costs at launch to ensure a competitive price. Shareholders won't like that, mind you!
Ein Bear
Member
So from what we've heard, UE4 wont run at all on the Wii U, and Epic are badgering Sony and Microsoft to increase their console's power so it'll run on those?
Seems to me the Epic have made a bit of a fuckup with UE4 in general really. Shouldn't you design a middleware engine to be nicely scalable on a large variety of hardware? Isn't that the point?
Seems to me the Epic have made a bit of a fuckup with UE4 in general really. Shouldn't you design a middleware engine to be nicely scalable on a large variety of hardware? Isn't that the point?
Portugeezer
Member
Ahhh hewll nah! Not this BS again.
You people need some reading comprehension, the fact hat this is even posted here...
This thread. I'm outta' here!
You people need some reading comprehension, the fact hat this is even posted here...
This thread. I'm outta' here!
I don't doubt UE4 is scalable, but I think it's a repeat of what they went through with Gears of War when MS was originally going to go with 256 MB of RAM on the 360; yeah, Epic could had made it work, but 512 was far more preferable for not only Gears, but for UE3 in general. The ball is in the courts of Sony and MS as far as how good they want UE4 to look.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
What an informative and quality post. You could've simply not posted at all.
I personally can't wait to see what devs have in store with UE4. It really will be unfortunate if the biggest non Nintendo games in the industry don't make it to the Wii U.
Epic was asking for 8GB RAM this time around, so of course Sony and MS won't swallow (unless they're ready to launch $599 consoles at a loss once again). Besides, they asked MS to increase from 256MB to 512MB at a time when it was normal to install 1GB or 2GB on PCs. Now they're asking to install an amount of RAM that not even "standard" gaming PCs are doing, being 4 or 6GB the norm.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Awesome so the Wii u can run a current gen title. Aim for the moon! I don't have many titles that use unreal engine either but unreal 4 is just a microcosm for the next gen landscape. Will next gen game engines be scalable to the Wii U or will they not be able to like this gen with the Wii? That's a valid question and concern.
It strikes me as a form of the Prisoner's Dilemma. Both Sony and Microsoft stand to profit if *both* make the relevant upgrades; third parties would happily port between them, and they should get healthy support. If only one does, however, the one who *doesn't* make the upgrades is likely to do best; third parties are likely to aim for the largest userbase, and so work on that and the Wii U, and leave the more powerful system high-and-dry. If neither of them make the upgrades, they're all on a level playing field, and will get third party support commensurate with their level - but have to compete with Wii U as well. Also, if neither of them make the upgrades, Epic are going to be in an interesting position of having spent a ton on R&D that may not be usable for a good five or six years.
What's Epic's strategy from here if none of the systems bite on UE4, I wonder?
Portugeezer
Member
I really don't care.
Anyway, I agree with you though I have a PC for those games, and not all the biggest games use Unreal Engine.
Criminal Upper
Banned
Why does he do stuff like this?
Again, the bolded? Not a given, don't assume it to be so. It might well be, but it's in no way set in stone.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I have a gaming PC too but Nintendo has always been my favorite developer growing up and I've always been so excited to purchase new Nintendo hardware. I was severely burnt by the Wii and awhile I'm much more excited for the Wii U, my willingness to pick the console up early will be contingent upon the type of third party support it receives and if it can't run THE engine going forward next gen, that is a big problem.
In any case, I don't see a lot of people moving away from UE3 for a bit. I think they can ride that one out for quite a while in the event that UE4 isn't a particularly feasible middleware solution. After all, companies that have their own terrific proprietary engines like Ubi Soft or Capcom still license UE3 for major titles.
Boss Man
Member
I don't know how much RAM they're going to have, and I certainly don't expect PS4/720 to be limited by UE4 (I assume it'll be the other way around), but RAM has gotten really cheap. You can buy 8GB of RAM for ~$30.00 off the shelf right now.
I'm pretty confident that PS4/720 will run UE4 though, I'm pretty sure that's one of the major reasons why Epic is making the engine in the first place.
Portugeezer
Member
They won't use off the shelf RAM though, 8GB for next gen consoles is overkill.
Best looking (10x more powrful) PC games barely use up 2GB's.
4GB's is more likely for PS4/720.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
I think that's when Jim first told Pam he loves her and/or has to move away.
Glorified G
Member
lol, what? Why would Nintendo care if you have a gaming PC. you still purchased their console, and buying their published games.
Boss Man
Member
Yeah I don't expect them to buy it off the shelf lol, I was only pointing out how cheap it is (obviously would be cheaper for a manufacturer).
I agree, 2-4GB is what I expect. I don't know how big of a leap it would be for them to go ahead and upgrade to 8GB though. Probably looking at what, like $15 to upgrade? I hope Epic pushes them to do it, personally. UE4 (in some form) will run on them regardless, but with RAM so cheap it would be kind of disappointing to lose so much power over it.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
So the new argument is "maybe UE4 won't be as popular as UE3"
Boss Man
Member
I think the new argument is that it won't run on anything.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I think the argument "Even if it's just as popular, it's no great loss" would be a safer bet, based on the list of games which used UE3.
Except PC. They're happy to stick with PC!
The point is, based on what we know now - which I'll freely admit is a position of ignorance - I don't see a compelling reason for Joe Average Third Party to upgrade. There were lots of excellent reasons to go for UE3, right now I don't see such reasons to go for UE4 over an existing UE3 license. This might change, and as I said, I'm speaking without full knowledge of the facts; we may have a better idea in a week.
In three-four years time? Yes, UE4 is going to look a lot more tempting. Now? Not convinced.
Pretty much.
This ridiculousness needs to end already. Just tell us how weak the console is and let everyone move on.
The whole thread has been nothing but speculative, not to mention the fact that Epic will say anything about their wares to get the window shoppers to sign their name down for a license.
Portugeezer
Member
dp
Grampa Simpson
Banned
UE4 seems like a hard sell to me. You can either use UE3 which you're already familiar with and works everywhere or pay more money for UE4 which you need to learn and doesn't work on Nintendo.
Seems shitty to me. Especially when thinking about the money.
Seems shitty to me. Especially when thinking about the money.
Portugeezer
Member
Looking at this list you wouldn't understand what the fuss is about (huge fuss, list should be huge):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
A lot of developers use their own in house engines. I don't know if that will change next gen, depends how good UE4 is to use.
In house engines: Rockstars RAGE Engine, Ubisoft Assassins Creed Engine, Capcom's MT Framework 2, Square Enix, COD uses modified id Tech 3 (maybe next gen they will use id Tech 4), etc.
Though many of these publishers have used UE for some games too.
.