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Is GAF too strict?

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pigeon

Banned
The 'cite your privilege' function would be useful for someone like pigeon. Makes it easier for him to find the privilege that makes the opposing posters arguments invalid.

Not really, I've memorized all the hotkeys by now.

I understand what pigeon is saying, but that in no way invalidates anyone feeling offended because he is part of a group of people that is generally thought of not being marginalized or oppressed. Hence my statement.

I don't understand how anyone thinks it's okay to qualify whether someone's grievances are more valid than someone else's because of a supposed gap in power or social status. It seems like it's not okay to generalize groups of people unless they're white and male.

I hate to muddy the message up, but here's the reality: it's not about offense. I mean, it should be clear just from reading this thread that it's perfectly acceptable on GAF to post stuff that has no other purpose but to try to offend people. Nor am I likely to get personally offended by people using the word "bitch."

It's about the way that the use of such language contributes to a societal structure designed to marginalize and disenfranchise certain people by teaching them to believe, consciously or unconsciously, that their traits -- traits they don't have control of -- make them intrinsically inferior or make their behavior outside specific social norms dangerously unacceptable.

You might be offended by "white" -- or "cis" or "straight" or "Wii U fanboy" -- but, unlike for GLBT people or people of color or women or whatever, there's no overarching social structure that says that white people are terrible.

(Except in my house, obviously.)

edit:
I have to hope you aren't serious. We only have Devo's word to say that women face marginalization and violence?!? That's absurd. Look at any set of statistics on sexual violence, harassment, rape, etc., and understand that women live in a vastly different world then men . . . a world where they have to question every set of footsteps behind them at night, fearing rape or violence or worse. As far as marginalization goes, from workplace statistics and salary averages, to women's suffrage (wasn't that long ago), to social dynamics in everyday settings, you can easily spot the trend of disenfranchising, disempowering, and marginalizing women. I'm having trouble responding to your post, as I don't even know where to start.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic! I agree with you entirely.
 
[Clark Gable];42863117 said:
You're so hurt over this, you can have your pseudo-science. Wish all you want.

Please demonstrate how it is psuedoscience.

See, I wouldn't be mad if you would actually make an argument. Your post is basically "lol u mad brah."
 

T.M. MacReady

NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
This thread is pandemonium already, so what's the harm in adding another topic for people to argue about?

the title of the thread is "is gaf too strict". not a place for people to argue about gender issues. Its a place to argue about moderation related issues. I don't think thats an unreasonable thing to say.
 
the title of the thread is "is gaf too strict". not a place for people to argue about gender issues. Its a place to argue about moderation related issues. I don't think thats an unreasonable thing to say.

I'd consider GAF too strict if they forced us to be respectful towards pseudoscience and proponents of pseudoscience. If those studies are psuedoscience as Clark claims, I could see where he is coming from.
 
I'm kinda confused on how male student raped by female teacher threads can still have "Niceeeeee" comments in them. We need more concrete rules regarding rape threads IMO.
 

Riggs

Banned
It's all fun and games until... I don't really remember what set it off. I think it was questioning the bans in that lab tech thread? I'll go with that.

Guess I am guilty as charged. At least we had a little fun w/ 50ppp =/

Also Gisk ... lol for multiple reasons at that pic. Can you put my head on 1 of the peasants please?
 

Gisk

Banned
I mean, I used to use 50ppp until Evil taught me the ways of the master.

Kt5Mi.png


Edit: Edited version

AxsF6.png
 

T.M. MacReady

NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
It's all fun and games until... I don't really remember what set it off. I think it was questioning the bans in that lab tech thread? I'll go with that.

the female driver on the sidewalk is what really caused it to blow up I think.

I doubt anyone is questioning why the people who were calling for prison rape got banned, thats happened before and should be expected.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Er, I think you're missing the obvious here. You seem like a cool person most of the time, so I'll assume you've had a long day. Let me help.

Sissy - i.e. sister. Feminine. An insult used to imply an effeminate quality about a male, illustrating their failure to live up to the masculine gender role. Again, considered insulting because it references the feminine, which is lowly and horrible for a man. If you're a patriarchal, misogynistic pig, that is.

Here's some wiki to help out:



pussy - offensive for obvious reasons. Again, the simple act of invoking female genitalia is considered somehow insulting. This is offensive as hell. There is no inherent negativity, weakness, or fault about being a woman, having a vagina, etc. But because of our patriarchal society, we equate femininity with negativity, weakness, etc. So calling someone a "pussy" invokes inherent weakness and insult. That's bullshit, and as a decent human, you shouldn't be comfortable doing that.

lil' bitch - see bitch

Also, if bitch were analogous to asshole, then you could just say that. But as you've said, there something about bitch which makes it unique and pack a special punch. That something special is its sexist foundation.

i realize the words themselves are tethered to a female sex but their modern day usage in each case except for 'bitch' itself have all migrated away from that.

actually sissy is new to me.

anyway, at the end of the day pretty much all insults that have persisted over the time have been sexual apart form the ones about intelligence.

edit: also for the asshole thing, that was bad wording. asshole is typically geared towards men. dick/asshole/bitch are gendered insults that mean 'this is a bad person'. dick/asshole being for the guy
 

A.E Suggs

Member
Er, I think you're missing the obvious here. You seem like a cool person most of the time, so I'll assume you've had a long day. Let me help.

Sissy - i.e. sister. Feminine. An insult used to imply an effeminate quality about a male, illustrating their failure to live up to the masculine gender role. Again, considered insulting because it references the feminine, which is lowly and horrible for a man. If you're a patriarchal, misogynistic pig, that is.

Here's some wiki to help out:



pussy - offensive for obvious reasons. Again, the simple act of invoking female genitalia is considered somehow insulting. This is offensive as hell. There is no inherent negativity, weakness, or fault about being a woman, having a vagina, etc. But because of our patriarchal society, we equate femininity with negativity, weakness, etc. So calling someone a "pussy" invokes inherent weakness and insult. That's bullshit, and as a decent human, you shouldn't be comfortable doing that.

lil' bitch - see bitch

Also, if bitch were analogous to asshole, then you could just say that. But as you've said, there something about bitch which makes it unique and pack a special punch. That something special is its sexist foundation.

I once told someone on and off the internet this but they didn't care :(. Music makes this to strong to combat when to many of the hottest raps songs uses it.
 
Yeah I didn't get that forever stuff. It's easier than ever to communicate. Forever to me means no contact what so ever.

I could understand if he was in high school, with raging hormones telling him shit... But that was just ridiculous. He went Hulk in one page in less than half an hour.
 

Riggs

Banned
He came for sympathy. GAF offered him mockery.

Basically. Chicks can really fuck your heart up. I know she was just leaving to go home .... not blaming her lol. I can't blame him but I personally would never of even made the thread in the first place.
 
Are we not gonna talk about sphinx's meltdown? Dude lost his damn mind.

Yeah :\ It would've been prudent of him to calm down before he went and made an overly-dramatic post about not seeing someone for a while, not freakin' forever. Not only does it devalue the actual "forevers" that happen, but it blows the whole situation out of proportion... there wasn't even an explanation as to what was going on, save some minor, obvious details.

I feel for the guy, but honestly, he must not know what forever really means :(
 

Tess3ract

Banned
Offtopic but is it possible to get Re:GAF stylish skin to work with Colored quote boxes? It seems you can get one or the other, but not both.
 

Riggs

Banned
Offtopic but is it possible to get Re:GAF stylish skin to work with Colored quote boxes? It seems you can get one or the other, but not both.

ooo what is that? My only gaf add on is the User high lighter for chrome.

Chrome for Android works very well with the Gaf mobile site. Though I'm also using a G-Nex w/ Jelly Bean

Nice I had nothing but problems with it though. It's my phone though it's way too slow.
 

T.M. MacReady

NO ONE DENIES MEMBER
Heresy. Although after updating to Ice cream on my shitty HTC Desire ... I can see the need. Default browser is completely unusable now. Had to switch to Firefox mobile.

Chrome for Android works very well with the Gaf mobile site. Though I'm also using a G-Nex w/ Jelly Bean
 

Tess3ract

Banned
I forget what it's called but you can get a "skin" for GAF that colors any quoteboxes that are made that quote something you said (makes it easier to see who replied to you)

But it doesn't work with RE:GAF (which makes it easier to read and look at)
 

Riggs

Banned
I forget what it's called but you can get a "skin" for GAF that colors any quoteboxes that are made that quote something you said (makes it easier to see who replied to you)

But it doesn't work with RE:GAF (which makes it easier to read and look at)

Oh ok, ya User High Lighter man I cannot live without it.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
How is douchebag a gendered insult?
It once referred to women, and there are people who would consider it a gender related insult. Unless you justify it by saying that actual douches are bad for women, so it's okay to call something you don't like a device that is bad for women, since they are analogous in that matter. But then again, it's not like this is all that different from other people's justifications for words they want to use that others don't want them to use.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...a_douche_when_did_that_become_an_insult_.html

Conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart died on Thursday. The firebrand rarely pulled punches, and some obituarists are following his lead. Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone, for example, titled his Breitbart post “Death of a Douche.” When did douche become an insult?



The insults douche and douchebag, however, seem to have something to do with gender. Obviously, the physical item to which the word refers is associated with female genitalia. And many of the early epithetical uses refer either to women or to men who behave as women. In Plexus (1953), the second book in Henry Miller’s Rosy Crucifixion trilogy, the characters discuss a male transvestite named Minnie Douchebag, a “crazy fairy who sings and plays the piano” at a restaurant in Sheridan square. In Hubert Selby’s 1964 cult hit Last Exit to Brooklyn, the prostitute Tralala tells a man she’d “fuckim blind not like that fuckin douchebag he was with.” The journal American Speech defined douchebag in 1967 as “an unattractive coed,” or, “by extension, any individual whom the speaker desires to denigrate.”

Eventually, the epithets douche and douchebag came to apply to men. Lexicographer and Slate contributor Ben Zimmer points to a 1987 taping of The Morton Downey Jr. Show, during which an audience member taunted Lyndon Larouche with the phrase “Larouche is a douche.” The 1991 Anthrax song “Startin’ Up a Posse” includes the lyrics “You’re a douche, you’re a douche, you’re a douche,” in apparent reference to record executives and/or government censors. Brooklyn hipsters adopted the epithet to describe men with “gelled hair, fitted baseball cap, multiple pastel polo shirts with popped collars layered one atop another” (PDF). Eventually, the insult turned back on them, as outsiders proposed calling a collection of skinny-jeans-wearing Brooklynites “a douchebag of hipsters.” On modern TV shows, the word is almost never applied to women.

Douche and douchebag are hardly the first epithets to cross the gender barrier. Both bitch and faggot were first applied to women before becoming emasculating insults to men. Those examples suggest that douche once referred, in some way, to a failure to conform to gender stereotypes.


http://morewomeninskepticism.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/27-gendered-insults/
*”Douche” is gendered and an insult, but it’s offensiveness to women is controversial. Some people claim that it implies vaginas are stinky and it is insulting because it makes the vagina’s natural state seem bad; some people claim that it’s a proven scam and thus it’s insulting because of its scamminess and thus isn’t gendered. I am in the camp that it’s a gendered insult and thus a no-no, but it’s not a hill I’d die on, and I can’t believe I’ve actually written this many sentences about it. And by this many sentences I mean three.

http://www.alternet.org/story/14397...e'_as_the_television_dirty_word_of_the_moment
According to Wyatt, the use of douche seems to represent "the latest of broadcast television's continuing efforts to expand the boundaries of taste, in part to stem the tide of defections by its audience to largely unregulated cable television."

I'm sorry, but this won't do. I don't see the increased use of a sexist term related to women sanitizing their vaginas as a mark of progress. The word's street meaning, as described in the gritty urban dictionary: "The douche bag is a total moron and doesn't think before he speaks or acts," makes the gendered meaning all too apparent -- and repugnant.

I hate the term douche bag (and also never use the word cunt as a derogatory directed toward other men.) Maybe this makes me a wimp. Clearly, I'm no Andy Sipowicz. But in my defense, I'm not a prude. I feel free to use the term "scum bag" from time to time, mostly referring the bankers and corporations.

What's interesting is that scum bag -- which refers to a used condom -- is essentially a masculine word. Scum bag is probably as close to an analog to douche bag as we are going to get. But "scum bag" doesn't get any attention. No one's writing about it in the New York Times .

So yes, douche and douche bag -- just words. Their usage will not cause the end of the world. But this little narrative is a reminder about how language gets shaped and how dirty words get framed. Are we surprised that once again, what's become au courant on mainstream media is yet another derogatory word related to women?

The ambiguous mixture of the subjectivity of language paired with history, behavior, prudence, and intent can make for some interesting and complex debate.
 

FelixOrion

Poet Centuriate
In which case, I'd be fine with the people openly insulting other posters being given a temp ban.

Though I wonder. Does Clark actually find "stop being such a cis" offensive, or is he just mad that he can't openly insult transsexual people?

Also, here are the links I was talking about, just got to where I wasn't on my phone. It was by shuri, not Mumei though he replied right after. None of them are too straight insults at others, but more like "you breeders" kind of quips.


Along the cis lines:

I've had cisgender thrown at me like a slur, I don't even know how I'm supposed to feel but I was made to feel extremely uncomfortable at being myself.

Not saying it's common (IRL or on GAF) but I didn't dream the posts.
 
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