AC Cloud is the obvious inspiration
Imagine how much more entertaining AC would have been if Cloud exposed his crotch through the entire movie!
Uh, she spent those two years being one of the resistances leaders. Because taking back a country from an empire cant be anything but an organized effort, at least one would think. Its not like she spent all that time doing jack.Thoth said:FFXII's Ashe: A disposed princess with a desire to save her homeland. The game establishes fairly early however how weak she is. She needs Vossler and the resistance to protect her for two whole years
All of the resistance was either dead, captured, or fleeing as well. It was a tactical retreat; because sticking around to die in a battle youve clearly already lost isnt strong, its moronic. Plus, she was still fighting back as she went(see. gif).Thoth said:and their big assault on Rabanastre ends with her fleeing in the sewers and very nearly being captured if not for the lucky timing of Vaan.
Along with everyone else, because they were vastly outnumbers and the Archadians have an army that isnt run by total morons.Thoth said:In the end, this only delays the inevitable and she is indeed captured.
And? Having someone desire to keep you out of harm doesnt mean you are weak. Not to mention theres a ton of incentive to protecting a political figure; its not like he was doing it because he personally thought she was weak.Thoth said:Then, when you free her, the plot has Basch become her protector for the rest of the game
From the very moment she joins the party she is making pretty much ALL of the crucial decisions.Thoth said:even when she becomes strong enough to make her crucial decisions.
She started thinking of him as a friend. Do you not like having your friends around?Thoth said:Even when she succeeds in regaining her status, she talks about how much she misses Basch. Not exactly a strong as nails woman overall.
Okay I have been thinking this over and I think I understand Lightning more than ever and why SE is so banking on her: She is the first female FF protagonist that is truly tough as nails, one who can handle herself instead of relying on others.
She is a warrior, not afraid to charge in with guns ablazing. From the very moment she was revealed in that tantalizing E3 reveal trailer, the message was clear: Lightning kicks ass and takes names. We see her handle a whole squad of enemies like a force of nature, slice up machines, and cut down behemoths. When the actual game came out, the first scene is of Lightning dispatching the guards on the train like clockwork. She then stands toe to toe with a gigantic machine, unafraid. She can manipulate gravity. She is not one to back away and let others drag her down.
This is a sharp contrast to all female FF protagonists before her. Let me explain:
1.FFXII's Ashe: A disposed princess with a desire to save her homeland. The game establishes fairly early however how weak she is. She needs Vossler and the resistance to protect her for two whole years and their big assault on Rabanastre ends with her fleeing in the sewers and very nearly being captured if not for the lucky timing of Vaan. In the end, this only delays the inevitable and she is indeed captured. Then, when you free her, the plot has Basch become her protector for the rest of the game, even when she becomes strong enough to make her crucial decisions. And still Basch talks about how he must protect her. Even when she succeeds in regaining her status, she talks about how much she misses Basch. Not exactly a strong as nails woman overall.
2. FFX's Yuna: She needs a whole troupe of guardians to help her reach Zanarkland. Again, she is seen as a jewel to be protected, not as someone who can stand on her own (though she does make some strides in X-2). Without her friends, I wonder how far she really would have gotten. Seymour would have probably snatched her away and become Sin like he always desired....
3. FFIX's Garnet: More hopeless than Ashe I am afraid. She begs Zidane (even though he was already planning) to kidnap her and escape her mother. She gets captured several times, loses all of her power, and worse still, goes mute after a major catastrophe. Once again it is the male protagonist that protects her and helps her grow.
4. FFVIII's Rinoa. Like Ashe in that she is a member of a resistance but she is even more inept in her projects than Ashe had been. Once again, the story dictates that a male protagonist be her knight to protect her. Without that knight, she would be doomed to become evil.
5. FFVII's Tifa and Aerith. Tifa alas spends the whole game chasing Cloud and even ditches the party when they are trying to save the world to be with Cloud's delirious body. Aerith in turn spends her life hiding and even when she shows growth, she is cut down and only gains her great strength when she becomes part of the planet.
6. FFVI's Terra/Tina and Celes. Terra's arc throughout the game is the fear of her power and her fear she can never be loved. She rather be left alone than be a hero. Celes is a traitorous knight who only finds herself and her strength thanks to Locke.
7. FFV's Lenna and Faris. Well, the first time we meet Lenna, she is also eaten by goblins. Faris masquerades as a male pirate. She may be the only closest SE ever had to a strong female character but she is never really emphasized in SE's FFV promos or even in game art.
8. FFIV's Rosa and Rydia. Rosa is madly in love with Cecil and Rydia gets eaten by a giant snake. Neither can achieve anything without Cecil's aid.
9. FF1,2, and 3: NES limitations meant there were never any fully realized characters in that era unfortunately.
In summary, Lightning is SE's first real attempt to make a strong willed, stand on her own two feet female protagonist in a Final Fantasy game. Whether you like her or not, I do believe this is why SE is so invested in her. I also see it as a welcome advance in a culture that typically treated females as inferior to males but that may be reading TOO deeply into it.
Basically Ashe is more of a human being, while Lightning is some weird made up archtype.
The only reason Lightning may seem to be more of a independent woman, is because she was basically made out to be female Cloud.
Her personality is that of a piece of cardboard. A strong female should not only be independent, but also well written. Also, men rely on others all the time in games like this, you can be a strong female and rely on others in the exact same way.
A few more high resolution bullshots:
DAT Armpit. The more I see it, the more I like her new dress.
Okay I have been thinking this over and I think I understand Lightning more than ever and why SE is so banking on her: She is the first female FF protagonist that is truly tough as nails, one who can handle herself instead of relying on others.
She is a warrior, not afraid to charge in with guns ablazing. From the very moment she was revealed in that tantalizing E3 reveal trailer, the message was clear: Lightning kicks ass and takes names. We see her handle a whole squad of enemies like a force of nature, slice up machines, and cut down behemoths. When the actual game came out, the first scene is of Lightning dispatching the guards on the train like clockwork. She then stands toe to toe with a gigantic machine, unafraid. She can manipulate gravity. She is not one to back away and let others drag her down.
This is a sharp contrast to all female FF protagonists before her. Let me explain:
1.FFXII's Ashe: A disposed princess with a desire to save her homeland. The game establishes fairly early however how weak she is. She needs Vossler and the resistance to protect her for two whole years and their big assault on Rabanastre ends with her fleeing in the sewers and very nearly being captured if not for the lucky timing of Vaan. In the end, this only delays the inevitable and she is indeed captured. Then, when you free her, the plot has Basch become her protector for the rest of the game, even when she becomes strong enough to make her crucial decisions. And still Basch talks about how he must protect her. Even when she succeeds in regaining her status, she talks about how much she misses Basch. Not exactly a strong as nails woman overall.
2. FFX's Yuna: She needs a whole troupe of guardians to help her reach Zanarkland. Again, she is seen as a jewel to be protected, not as someone who can stand on her own (though she does make some strides in X-2). Without her friends, I wonder how far she really would have gotten. Seymour would have probably snatched her away and become Sin like he always desired....
3. FFIX's Garnet: More hopeless than Ashe I am afraid. She begs Zidane (even though he was already planning) to kidnap her and escape her mother. She gets captured several times, loses all of her power, and worse still, goes mute after a major catastrophe. Once again it is the male protagonist that protects her and helps her grow.
4. FFVIII's Rinoa. Like Ashe in that she is a member of a resistance but she is even more inept in her projects than Ashe had been. Once again, the story dictates that a male protagonist be her knight to protect her. Without that knight, she would be doomed to become evil.
5. FFVII's Tifa and Aerith. Tifa alas spends the whole game chasing Cloud and even ditches the party when they are trying to save the world to be with Cloud's delirious body. Aerith in turn spends her life hiding and even when she shows growth, she is cut down and only gains her great strength when she becomes part of the planet.
6. FFVI's Terra/Tina and Celes. Terra's arc throughout the game is the fear of her power and her fear she can never be loved. She rather be left alone than be a hero. Celes is a traitorous knight who only finds herself and her strength thanks to Locke.
7. FFV's Lenna and Faris. Well, the first time we meet Lenna, she is also eaten by goblins. Faris masquerades as a male pirate. She may be the only closest SE ever had to a strong female character but she is never really emphasized in SE's FFV promos or even in game art.
8. FFIV's Rosa and Rydia. Rosa is madly in love with Cecil and Rydia gets eaten by a giant snake. Neither can achieve anything without Cecil's aid.
9. FF1,2, and 3: NES limitations meant there were never any fully realized characters in that era unfortunately.
In summary, Lightning is SE's first real attempt to make a strong willed, stand on her own two feet female protagonist in a Final Fantasy game. Whether you like her or not, I do believe this is why SE is so invested in her. I also see it as a welcome advance in a culture that typically treated females as inferior to males but that may be reading TOO deeply into it.
Okay, I have to disagree completely.
For starters: 1) Refia came out before Lightning, and she was definitely strong willed. 2)Rydia tells Cecil to stuff it the second he pulls some chauvenist stuff and ultimately sticks it to his "boy's only" thinking by staying onboard the ship. Oh, and she bails him out and one shots the guy who has been curb stomping him. Rydia not able to do things without Cecil's help? Bullshit.
And the reason Terra is so messed up is because she's kinda child soldier. But she doesn't just do crap with Locke's, Edgar's, or Bannon's insistence. Terra resolves her problem, both the love thing AND the not wanting to fight thing, WITHOUT a man. Celes, sure, falls in love with a boy and blah blah blah, but Terra develops a spine independent of men. And Aerith has her wits about her quite a deal more than the very sick Cloud and his not-helping-at-all girlfriend Tifa.
To sum up, you're dead wrong about Refia, Terra, and Rydia. ESPECIALLY Rydia, who TAY proves is more powerful than every other person in the game, except maybe Golbez, when herroflstomps the entire cast of FF4 in TAY.clone army
So no, Lightning is not Square's first attempt at an independent female lead, nor an independent female. Especially since we're forgetting women like Freya, who, while motivated by a man, does the entire quest without him, his help, or him holding her hand or what have you.
There've been plenty of strong female leads and you're dead wrong about a few of the ones you mentioned.
Ashe wasn't weak at all. She was the one in charge of the resistance in the first place. She also just had lost her husband during her wedding. She could have ran away and started a new life under a new name but chose to save her empire instead. Throughout the game she requires the party assistance because she cannot do everything by herself just like all of the other FF protagonists needed a party to save the world.
Oh god.DAT Armpit. The more I see it, the more I like her new dress.
1. Refia is from a DS remake. She is not an original.
2. We are talking about original FF games, not sequels.
3. I am not saying Terra does not have an arc here. I am saying that Terra was not written as a strong willed character who could face challenges ahead of her without flinching. She overcomes this by story's end but for most of the game she is a reluctant participant.
4. As for Ashe, I still reply that the game keeps ramming home the point she needs protection from Vossler / Basch despite the fact she could do things for herself.
How does XII keep "ramming home the point she needs protection from Vossler / Basch"?
Okay I have been thinking this over and I think I understand Lightning more than ever and why SE is so banking on her: She is the first female FF protagonist that is truly tough as nails, one who can handle herself instead of relying on others.
She is a warrior, not afraid to charge in with guns ablazing. From the very moment she was revealed in that tantalizing E3 reveal trailer, the message was clear: Lightning kicks ass and takes names. We see her handle a whole squad of enemies like a force of nature, slice up machines, and cut down behemoths. When the actual game came out, the first scene is of Lightning dispatching the guards on the train like clockwork. She then stands toe to toe with a gigantic machine, unafraid. She can manipulate gravity. She is not one to back away and let others drag her down.
This is a sharp contrast to all female FF protagonists before her. Let me explain:
1.FFXII's Ashe: A disposed princess with a desire to save her homeland. The game establishes fairly early however how weak she is. She needs Vossler and the resistance to protect her for two whole years and their big assault on Rabanastre ends with her fleeing in the sewers and very nearly being captured if not for the lucky timing of Vaan. In the end, this only delays the inevitable and she is indeed captured. Then, when you free her, the plot has Basch become her protector for the rest of the game, even when she becomes strong enough to make her crucial decisions. And still Basch talks about how he must protect her. Even when she succeeds in regaining her status, she talks about how much she misses Basch. Not exactly a strong as nails woman overall.
2. FFX's Yuna: She needs a whole troupe of guardians to help her reach Zanarkland. Again, she is seen as a jewel to be protected, not as someone who can stand on her own (though she does make some strides in X-2). Without her friends, I wonder how far she really would have gotten. Seymour would have probably snatched her away and become Sin like he always desired....
3. FFIX's Garnet: More hopeless than Ashe I am afraid. She begs Zidane (even though he was already planning) to kidnap her and escape her mother. She gets captured several times, loses all of her power, and worse still, goes mute after a major catastrophe. Once again it is the male protagonist that protects her and helps her grow.
4. FFVIII's Rinoa. Like Ashe in that she is a member of a resistance but she is even more inept in her projects than Ashe had been. Once again, the story dictates that a male protagonist be her knight to protect her. Without that knight, she would be doomed to become evil.
5. FFVII's Tifa and Aerith. Tifa alas spends the whole game chasing Cloud and even ditches the party when they are trying to save the world to be with Cloud's delirious body. Aerith in turn spends her life hiding and even when she shows growth, she is cut down and only gains her great strength when she becomes part of the planet.
6. FFVI's Terra/Tina and Celes. Terra's arc throughout the game is the fear of her power and her fear she can never be loved. She rather be left alone than be a hero. Celes is a traitorous knight who only finds herself and her strength thanks to Locke.
7. FFV's Lenna and Faris. Well, the first time we meet Lenna, she is also eaten by goblins. Faris masquerades as a male pirate. She may be the only closest SE ever had to a strong female character but she is never really emphasized in SE's FFV promos or even in game art.
8. FFIV's Rosa and Rydia. Rosa is madly in love with Cecil and Rydia gets eaten by a giant snake. Neither can achieve anything without Cecil's aid.
9. FF1,2, and 3: NES limitations meant there were never any fully realized characters in that era unfortunately.
In summary, Lightning is SE's first real attempt to make a strong willed, stand on her own two feet female protagonist in a Final Fantasy game. Whether you like her or not, I do believe this is why SE is so invested in her. I also see it as a welcome advance in a culture that typically treated females as inferior to males but that may be reading TOO deeply into it.
lies
Also, she was an active participant in the attempt to assassinate Vayne. Or do you not remember:
bye.
Jesus Christ, her club-hobeltmini-skirt is still just as out of place and ridiculous as I remember it to be.
Jesus Christ, her club-hobeltmini-skirt is still just as out of place and ridiculous as I remember it to be.
I liked Ashe but her skirt was always completely ridiculous.
Let me reiterate that I never said any of these characters were weak. I simply said that most female characters in the series were written to be very dependent on other characters while the opposite was not quite as true. But to address some replies:
1. Refia is from a DS remake so she is technically not an original FF 3 character.
2. We are talking about original FF games, not sequels. Yuna and Rydia def. show growth at the start of the game.
3. I am not saying Terra does not have an arc here. I am saying that Terra is not initially presented as a strong willed character who could face challenges ahead of her without flinching. She is VERY powerful but is also very afraid of herself. She overcomes this masterfully by story's end but for most of the game she is a reluctant participant in the war.
4. As for Ashe, I will admit that the strong as nails comment was too far as I like her and her character. I still reply that the game keeps ramming home the point she needs protection from Vossler / Basch despite the fact she could do things for herself.
In summary, Lightning is SE's first real attempt to make a strong willed, stand on her own two feet female protagonist in a Final Fantasy game. Whether you like her or not, I do believe this is why SE is so invested in her. I also see it as a welcome advance in a culture that typically treated females as inferior to males but that may be reading TOO deeply into it.
It also does not make sense from an armor point of view. A lack of sense Lightning is apparently indulging in as well...
She would be less appealing visually though if she's fully armored. Style over practicality I say.
She would be less appealing visually though if she's fully armored. Style over practicality I say.
Fang was a better "strong girl" than Lightning anyways u__u
Samus looks badass and awesome, all without shamelessly providing cheap fanservice. :/
Too bad they destroyed her character in Other M. Or so I hear.Samus looks badass and awesome, all without shamelessly providing cheap fanservice. :/
The environments and architecture are so pieced together that it just doesn't work anywhere. Now I don't know if it is meant to be that way because of some SE story twist that makes no sense but they need to rework some things. Granted it still looks like place holder stuff or atleast I hope it is.
Too bad they destroyed her character in Other M. Or so I hear.
You guys seem to be equating strength with physical strength/ability. Godlike powers allowing a character to beat anyone alone does NOT make for a good character let alone a good female character, it's just poorly written mary sue types. Depending on other people is not a weakness, you sound like a third rate RPG villain.
A great RPG lead character is one with emotional strength to own up to their mistakes, get past problems with other people and bring people together. Lightning does none of these things. She might not rely on anyone to help her do things, that doesnt make her strong, she just blames people for not doing things for her, she constantly blames Snow "You couldn't protect her. It's your fault she" "Serah? Listen... It's all your fault - she - " etc etc.
So. This gen will be the first gen with only 2-3 (more like 2 if you count FF13,13-1 and 13-2 as a whole) Final Fantasy games, and even 2-3 if you say that FF15 is in Beta. Do you think this announce the death of the FF series?
Or do you think FF15 will be a savior?
So. This gen will be the first gen with only 3-4 Final Fantasy games, and even 2-3 if you say that FF15 is in Beta. Do you think this announce the death of the FF series?
Or do you think FF15 will be a savior?
Yes, please.Fang would've made for a better lead. In fact, you can take your Lightning saga and shove it, I want a Fang saga.
You guys seem to be equating strength with physical strength/ability. Godlike powers allowing a character to beat anyone alone does NOT make for a good character let alone a good female character, it's just poorly written mary sue types. Depending on other people is not a weakness, you sound like a third rate RPG villain.
A great RPG lead character is one with emotional strength to own up to their mistakes, get past problems with other people and bring people together. Lightning does none of these things. She might not rely on anyone to help her do things, that doesnt make her strong, she just blames people for not doing things for her, she constantly blames Snow "You couldn't protect her. It's your fault she" "Serah? Listen... It's all your fault - she - " etc etc.
It's almost like someone shopped that shield in, it doesn't match anything in the scene or the world, looks out of place. would be good if it can be unequipped, such an eyesore.
Oh. XIII-2 took me like 65 hours, but I plat'd the game, even used the collectors edition guide in some parts. That was more fragment hunting though.
That would mean more Vanille, which would be far worse than what we have right now.Yes, please.
That's what Lain's going to do to her armpit?