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[KojiKnight]

It would have sold even less. They should have made an RPG or something along the lines or Saint Seiya Sanctuary Battle or One Piece Pirate Warriors - in other words, a game for fans (with more refined gameplay, of course).

I somehow don't think you understand Sony's key demographic if you think turning it into an anime-style RPG would do better with Sony's characters than a Mortal Kombat style 1 on 1 fighter.

 

[Gadirok]

Wow... seeing a lot of people saying marketing was to blame... Honestly, it was one of the more marketed titles I've seen recently. I saw commercials several times a night, every night for a couple weeks across several channels.

Marketing wasn't the problem, it was simply the fact that the game wasn't up to spec. There are very few mascot brawlers out there, and any of them that aren't SSB are low budget (and usually Namco-bandai related). Sony tried making their own high budget smash bros thinking that their title characters would be enough to put it on par with Nintendo's... Just not happening.

That's not to say that Sony's characters are somehow less popular (though they are) but rather it's the demographics... All-stars was a comedic brawler featuring characters that mostly weren't. It's an "all age" friendly combat game with characters that simply aren't. The styles clash, the demographics clashed and there was NOTHING they could have done to fix that.

For Sony to compete, they'd be MUCH better off trying to go the Mortal Kombat route. I know for a fact I'd get a lot more enjoyment out of a deep and bloody 1 on 1 fighting game from Sony's characters than what we got in All-stars.


TLDR: Sony should make Mortal Kombat with it's characters, not a comedic brawler.

I agree. I saw way too many commercials for this game and those banners in stores like walmart. The problem was that the marketting was just bad. That commercial probably made no sense to the public, and it was so horribly botched from a terrible live action that it faded into obscurity.

 

[Skyzard]

They should have made an actual fighting game you know like street fighter or Mortal Kombat. That would have been more appealing to the base instead of a literal smash bros clone

Not really people are already used to the proper fighting games already out there, I doubt anything new really has a chance unless it's special ($$$$).

I'm happy we get a playstation version of smash bros especially since I probably won't be buying another Nintendo console till they prioritise older gamers more, which I doubt they will anytime soon. I hope they at least support it on PS4 as well. Would be a total waste if they don't.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They should have gone deeper into the 90s/early00s nostalgia vault. They had some of the characters but there was nothing remarkable or memorable about the game's style or interface. I know it might have been a pain in the ass dealing with 3rd parties, but I wonder how hard they went after some of the iconic PS characters. Hell even get Tony Hawk, Claude from GTA3, maybe even an athlete people remember from those old PSone days.

 

[daripad]

It would have sold even less. They should have made an RPG or something along the lines or Saint Seiya Sanctuary Battle or One Piece Pirate Warriors - in other words, a game for fans (with more refined gameplay, of course).

They shouldn't have done anything. Just core Sony fans care about Sony mascots, they are unrecognisable by everyone else, whatever they have done would have sold just like PSASBR.

 

[EmperorLawlight]

Link's Crossbow Training sold a ton of copies.

But to whom?

 

[KidGalactus]

I feel like if they'd gone the powerstone route, this might have had a better shot at going their way. At the very least, it wouldn't have seemed like a kind of calculated marketing move.

The Smash direction was dictated by Sony, correct?

 

[Card Boy]

A huge difference between Smash and PSASBR is that all, if not most of those characters are recognized by KIDS. Something that Sony doesn't have. Sony needs to rely on the older audience to sell this game. People who will recognize most of the cast, which in several cases are characters from M rated games.

The problem is that the older audience is the one that is more strict on what they want, so stuff like photoshop like UI will not pass by.

PSASBR was in a really awkward position and with a limited audience IMO.

This, they really haven't come up with any new IPs they appeal to kids outside LBP, Modnation and that LocoRoco stuff this generation. Do kids even care about these IPs? Stop putting money towards stupid shit like MAG, Unit 13, Resistance and Killzone and starting making kids games and RPGs next generation.

 

[Aquamarine]

But to whom?

5 million to consumers is pretty damn good for a minigame bundled with a piece of plastic.

 

[rockx4]

But to whom?

To customers that purchased the game... why does it matter who purchased it?

 

[EmperorLawlight]

They shouldn't have done anything. Just core Sony fans care about Sony mascots, they are unrecognisable by everyone else, whatever they have done would have sold just like PSASBR.

You're losing me here, mind clarifying if I'm understanding you correctly? Basically, you're saying that this game would have sold better if non-core Sony fans (for example, grandmas and grandpas) knew who Kratos or Drake were?

 

[Zomba13]

Also this. I would have liked 1-2 or two unlockable characters, too.

Well there is DLC coming and it'll be free for 2 weeks. That's kinda like unlockable characters. If you unlock characters by waiting months and then grab them in a small window so you don't have to pay...

 

[EmperorLawlight]

5 million to consumers is pretty damn good for a minigame bundled with a piece of plastic.

So, not to core Nintendo fans such as yourself (I'm assuming you're one)?

 

[DaBoss]

They should have made an actual fighting game you know like street fighter or Mortal Kombat. That would have been more appealing to the base instead of a literal smash bros clone

I think Smash Bros. style fighting is far more appealing to a majority than a regular fighting game due to the difference in gameplay and easy pickup-and-play nature.

Not really people are already used to the proper fighting games already out there, I doubt anything new really has a chance unless it's special ($$$$).

I'm happy we get a playstation version of smash bros especially since I probably won't be buying another Nintendo console till they prioritise older gamers more, which I doubt they will anytime soon. I hope they at least support it on PS4 as well. Would be a total waste if they don't.

I hope you mean core, if not, it makes you sound childish. Sorry if I sounded rude.


EDIT: Why is the sales of Link's Crossbow Training even being discussed about? It was bundled with the Wii Zapper, that isn't something that is related to what you guys are discussing about.

 

[matm666]

I probably won't be buying another Nintendo console till they prioritise older gamers more, which I doubt they will anytime soon. I hope they at least support it on PS4 as well. Would be a total waste if they don't.

what do you mean by older gamers? What do you mean by more? They have always been the same they had more "hardcore" (I hate the term) shit on wii than the Game Cube.

 

[Oersted]

But did you buy them (or are watching the Pokemon series)?

I´m not important in this equation. They are big enough without me.

Spoiler

And yes, I have one Mario Party game and seen some Pokemon-episodes^^.

 

[faridmon]

Quite exploitative, if you ask me. I have a feeling that the decisions that resulted in such backlash to the game came from higher ups, rather than Superbots, and now, they are held responsible for it.

 

[Oersted]

But to whom?

You're losing me here, mind clarifying if I'm understanding you correctly? Basically, you're saying that this game would have sold better if non-core Sony fans (for example, grandmas and grandpas) knew who Kratos or Drake were?

So, not to core Nintendo fans such as yourself (I'm assuming you're one)?

Lawlight, nothing wrong with having an agenda, but what are you trying to do?

Quite exploitative, if you ask me. I have a feeling that the decisions that resulted in such backlash to the game came from higher ups, rather than Superbots, and now, they are held responsible for it.

Yep.

 

[mujun]

Seems people are okay with studio shutdowns when Sony are behind it

 

[Card Boy]

Not really people are already used to the proper fighting games already out there, I doubt anything new really has a chance unless it's special ($$$$).

I'm happy we get a playstation version of smash bros especially since I probably won't be buying another Nintendo console till they prioritise older gamers more, which I doubt they will anytime soon. I hope they at least support it on PS4 as well. Would be a total waste if they don't.

It's not like Nintendo makes games that appeal to babies only man. Nintendo games have a broad appeal to people across all ages. This is Sonys problem with the way they do things, they only appeal to 'older games' and why they get shit sales and bombas.

 

[Sponge]

Can't say I didn't see it coming, the game is average at best and needed work.

Hopefully Santa Monica takes better care of it.

 

[DaBoss]

It's not like Nintendo makes games that appeal to babies only man. Nintendo games have a broad appeal to people across all ages. This is Sonys problem with the way they do things, they only appeal to 'older games' and why they get shit sales and bombas.

Little Big Planet, Ratchet, and Sly appeal to all ages. Not saying it's enough or they sell really good. Their marketing though I guess you can say they don't try to appeal to all ages.

 

[Incendiary]

A huge difference between Smash and PSASBR is that all, if not most of those characters are recognized by KIDS. Something that Sony doesn't have. Sony needs to rely on the older audience to sell this game. People who will recognize most of the cast, which in several cases are characters from M rated games.

The problem is that the older audience is the one that is more strict on what they want, so stuff like photoshop like UI will not pass by.

PSASBR was in a really awkward position and with a limited audience IMO.

This is basically the crux of the problem with PSASBR. All of Sony's flagship franchises are more adult-based, while Nintendo's always been about including the family, creating the party atmosphere, having fun. A Sony crossover game in the right genre would sell wonders, but the fact is a mascot brawler really has a niche audience to begin with.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Cutting all ties. Ouch. I know it bombed, but not unexpected. SSM doing DLC, what is SuperBot gonna do?

 

[Fox Mulder]

They should have gone deeper into the 90s/early00s nostalgia vault. They had some of the characters but there was nothing remarkable or memorable about the game's style or interface. I know it might have been a pain in the ass dealing with 3rd parties, but I wonder how hard they went after some of the iconic PS characters. Hell even get Tony Hawk, Claude from GTA3, maybe even an athlete people remember from those old PSone days.

The game concept works well for Nintendo because they have a giant stable of iconic franchises to pull characters from in addition to the niche or obscure stuff for hardcore fans, anytime they add third party characters is just nice fluff. Sony has always relied on third parties, which probably makes it more expensive and impossible to license everyone they'd really want.

 

[Aquamarine]

Cutting all ties. Ouch. I know it bombed, but not unexpected. SSM doing DLC, what is SuperBot gonna do?

1. Try and find new investors

2. Fail to find new investors (who wants to invest in a studio that made one commercial failure and nothing else?)

3. Fold

Unfortunately.

 

[Metallix87]

If Crash was still relevant, why aren't his games selling? Same thing for Lara Croft.

Crash's franchise was dragged through the dirt over the years, but the new Tomb Raider could be a big hit, given all the positive buzz.

 

[daripad]

You're losing me here, mind clarifying if I'm understanding you correctly? Basically, you're saying that this game would have sold better if non-core Sony fans (for example, grandmas and grandpas) knew who Kratos or Drake were?

Exactly. This game seems appropriate for all ages and kids buy games. If those kids knew who those characters were, then they would have interest in the game. The problem is that they're not strong brands and the characters are not for all publics, so Kratos and Drake are just known by mature audience. The rest of the cast is pretty unknown? by people in general, just what doesn't happen with for example Nintendo mascots like pikachu, link, mario, DK and Yoshi that are pretty well known even by non-gamers.
I don't know if you understand my point, my English is not that good

 

[EmperorLawlight]

Lawlight, nothing wrong with having an agenda, but what are you trying to do?

I said characters aren't why this game failed. People started arguing otherwise. I'm putting forward my logic and, if I may say so myself, is hard to counter.

 

[Card Boy]

Little Big Planet, Ratchet, and Sly appeal to all ages. Not saying it's enough or they sell really good. Their marketing though I guess you can say they don't try to appeal to all ages.

So you named 3 series this generation on the PS3, it's simply not enough (nor good enough)

 

[Skyzard]

It's not like Nintendo makes games that appeal to babies only man. Nintendo games have a broad appeal to people across all ages. This is Sonys problem with the way they do things, they only appeal to 'older games' and why they get shit sales and bombas.

I don't disagree.

Little Big Planet, Ratchet, and Sly appeal to all ages. Not saying it's enough or they sell really good. Their marketing though I guess you can say they don't try to appeal to all ages.

Yeah they've been trying..

 

[Huff]

It's a problem trying to make a mascot fighter when most of the well known players are going to be 3rd party.

Sony probably thought they would be able to get the characters like cloud, etc and most companies were just like lol no

 

[Sandfox]

Little Big Planet, Ratchet, and Sly appeal to all ages. Not saying it's enough or they sell really good. Their marketing though I guess you can say they don't try to appeal to all ages.

Sly disappeared for 8 years and those series may appeal to kids(though I think Rachet and Sly are really more for teenagers) but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are popular with kids. You are right about the marketing though because if they made a bigger push towards kids rather than their core audience the those series would probably be more popular.

 

[shungokusatsu]

It's a problem trying to make a mascot fighter when most of the well known players are going to be 3rd party.

Sony probably thought they would be able to get the characters like cloud, etc and most companies were just like lol no

I doubt they said no. They likely all wanted royalty fees and with fans wanting nothing but third-party characters, it'd leave little to no revenue for Sony.

 

[DaBoss]

So you named 3 series this generation on the PS3, it's simply not enough (nor good enough)

I'm not gonna do a list of all the ones that can appeal to all ages, just named the first 3 that came to my head. What my point was that their marketing is not for everyone. It just targets an older audience. Wonderbook was their only marketing campaign that occurred recently that appealed to all ages.

Sly disappeared for 8 years and those series may appeal to kids(though I think Rachet and Sly are really more for teenagers) but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are popular with kids. You are right about the marketing though because if they made a bigger push towards kids rather than their core audience the those series would probably be more popular.

Pre-teens/adolescents then? I don't know if they should just go towards kids, but rather make it so it doesn't alienate them. Make it appealing to everyone (family friendly). Especially when marketing the console itself.

 

[KalBalboa]

Can't say I didn't see it coming, the game is average at best and needed work.

Hopefully Santa Monica takes better care of it.

I wonder what they'll bring to the table.

 

[Sandfox]

I wonder what they'll bring to the table.

I'm expecting them to just finish the planned DLC.

 

[rouken]

Does that mean that you buy Mario Party as well? And Link's Crossbow Training? And the Pokemon TV series?

And you're forgetting that Sony has multiple characters from multi-million selling franchises as well.

yeah of course, mario party if FUN to play, like all games should be. link's crossbow training didn't interest me because of the peripheral thingy. and pokemon tv series, i don't watch that anymore but I heard it's still quite popular today.

also, you're examples are quite bad, because mario party is in what, its 8th sequel? cmon, doesn't that tell you that people are buying that stuff? that can also be said to pokemon tv series whose protagonist ash ketchum doesn't age because they're living in limbo of popularity. so try harder.

i believe PSABR could've been popular and awesome if sony have faith in it in the first place, but they don't. They gave it to a subpar developer and had mediocre marketing. It's only hope was selling to the 70 million PS3 owners who LOVES those franchises, but we can all see, even them don't quite like it.

 

[EmperorLawlight]

Exactly. This game seems appropriate for all ages and kids buy games. If those kids knew who those characters were, then they would have interest in the game. The problem is that they're not strong brands and the characters are not for all publics, so Kratos and Drake are just known by mature audience. The rest of the cast is pretty unknown? by people in general, just what doesn't happen with for example Nintendo mascots like pikachu, link, mario, DK and Yoshi that are pretty well known even by non-gamers.
I don't know if you understand my point, my English is not that good

PSASBR is a T-rated game. How "all ages and kids" game is it?

Also, what I'm getting from you is that the core-Sony fans only buy mature games. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Sandfox]

PSASBR is a T-rated game. How "all ages and kids" game is it?

Also, what I'm getting from you is that the core-Sony fans only buy mature games. Is that what you're saying?

Melee and Brawl were both rated T and people consider them to be all ages.

 

[Pikawil]

PSASBR is a T-rated game.

And so are Melee and Brawl.

Edit: Ninja'd. Again.

 

[DaBoss]

PSASBR is a T-rated game. How "all ages and kids" game is it?

Also, what I'm getting from you is that the core-Sony fans only buy mature games. Is that what you're saying?

I'm not sure what you're point is, but Super Smash Bros Melee and Brawl are both T-rated games.

EDIT: Beaten twice.

 

[EmperorLawlight]

yeah of course, mario party if FUN to play, like all games should be. link's crossbow training didn't interest me because of the peripheral thingy. and pokemon tv series, i don't watch that anymore but I heard it's still quite popular today.

also, you're examples are quite bad, because mario party is in what, its 8th sequel? cmon, doesn't that tell you that people are buying that stuff? that can also be said to pokemon tv series whose protagonist ash ketchum doesn't age because they're living in limbo of popularity. so try harder.

i believe PSABR could've been popular and awesome if sony have faith in it in the first place, but they don't. They gave it to a subpar developer and had mediocre marketing. It's only hope was selling to the 70 million PS3 owners who LOVES those franchises, but we can all see, even them don't quite like it.

So, did you buy Mario Party because it is fun or because it has Mario in it? And you didn't buy Link's Crossbow Training. Does that mean that Link isn't a popular character?

And about the sales of Mario Party, you're confusing sales to the core gamers and sales to the casual gamers. To me, there's a massive difference.

 

[MrDaravon]

I doubt they said no. They likely all wanted royalty fees and with fans wanting nothing but third-party characters, it'd leave little to no revenue for Sony.

Then they shouldn't have made the game. Personally gameplay-wise Smash Bros does nothing for me, it appeals to me personally just for nostalgia and for ridiculous cross-over purposes. A ways back in one of the PSASBR threads I made a list of my top 10 characters that I feel I identify with Playstation going back to the beginning. 7 of those 10 characters were not in the game, and looking around that's a HUGE sentiment; where's Crash, Spyro, Lara, Cloud, or a million other characters that should be in the game and aren't? They did make some good pulls with the boss for example, but the roster was largely not what people wanted. Marketing was a factor, but the game's quality I don't think really was; I don't think most people seriously gave it a look because there was no Cloud/etc.

 

[thehypocrite]

Not shocking but still bad news. Wish the best to all remaining superbot developers.

 

[Metallix87]

I'm not sure what you're point is, but Super Smash Bros Melee and Brawl are both T-rated games.

Lawlight doesn't have a point. He's an individual who argued that Sony had more recognizable franchises than Nintendo, and that this game would be a bigger hit than Smash Bros. ever was, only to backpedal and change his tune once the game was released.

 

[DaBoss]

So, did you buy Mario Party because it is fun or because it has Mario in it? And you didn't buy Link's Crossbow Training. Does that mean that Link isn't a popular character?

And about the sales of Mario Party, you're confusing sales to the core gamers and sales to the casual gamers. To me, there's a massive difference.

Link's Crossbow Training is a pack in for the Wii Zapper. If you didn't get the game, that means you didn't want the Wii Zapper. Please stop using that game as an example.

I don't understand why you are separating casual/core sales. I thought the discussion was about sales from all audiences..

 

[EmperorLawlight]

I'm not sure what you're point is, but Super Smash Bros Melee and Brawl are both T-rated games.

EDIT: Beaten twice.

My point was to the other person who said that PSASBR was meant to appeal to kids and all ages. No, it wasn't.

 

[daripad]

PSASBR is a T-rated game. How "all ages and kids" game is it?

Also, what I'm getting from you is that the core-Sony fans only buy mature games. Is that what you're saying?

smash is T rated in the last two entries and they sold millions and brought a good variety of players to the game, kids included.
As for your second question no, you misunderstood me, I tried to say that only core-Sony fans know the majority of the cast and that kids don't recognise drake, Kratos, cole, etc. just go out with pictures of the smash cast and the PSASBR cast and ask people wichita characters they know about and you'll see that Sony characters are unpopular

 

[Zen]

Marketing was not the problem. Creating a game that nobody asked for was.
Good luck for the guys at Superbot though. Don´t really know what Sony was thinking with this mess.

Plenty of people were thrilled when this was announced.