peanutbutterlatte
Member
Also, their outsourced titles (DKCR, Luigi's Mansion 2) seem pretty good.
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Nintendo to meet UK retailers after unofficial Wii U price cuts fail
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
- Start date
Also, their outsourced titles (DKCR, Luigi's Mansion 2) seem pretty good.
As long as they show HD Zelda at E3 and it looks as good or better than this:
I'll be happy!
I can see the door through his arm!
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Vita: Uncharted, WipeOut2048, Tales From Space: Mutant Blobs Attack, Gravity Rush, and your pick: Virtua Tennis/Lumines/Escape Plan.
Yeah I mean at the end of the day they both make good games for handheld and home console alike. But stating Nintendo are bad at juggling between home and handheld is wrong for the most part if looking at history, Nintendo have been doing it for decades. Sony are pretty new in the handheld game in comparison and the GB, GBC, GBA and even the DS never really affected the adjacent home system.
Wipeout 2048 is a very good game. Love it.
Look closer and you'll see it's a backwards Nintendo logo!
That sort of thing is totally subjective. I can think of a few, but you wouldn't necessarily agree with any of them. The Wii-U doesn't have any to my mind, let alone 5.
DragonSworne
Banned
ringwaldhaze
Neo Member
No, that was the Saturn.
SuicidalSteve
Member
That looks more like the nintendo logo
Yeah its being recoded off the TV with a camera at E3, the booth stuff is being reflected.
Acheteedo
Member
The big question for me is if it's even possible to turn the WiiU around given that the central idea of the console (a tablet based controller) is, to me, a poor idea. It's the elephant in the room, everyone is pointing to price/games/advertising/image, but those don't address the real problem.
I would say that the DS proves that it is possible, after all the success of the DS had almost nothing to do with its bizarre 2 screens, and everything to do with quality content and the cosmetic appeal of the re-launch DS-lite. The problem here is that the DS didn't have the competition that the WiiU faces, factoring in both current and next gen it's a completely different playing field. The WiiU is on the verge of getting swept under the rug this holiday, and no amount of Pikmin or Smash Bros will be able to withstand the storm.
I will be stunned if Nintendo manage to turn it around, and very impressed. I'd wish them luck but to be honest I'd prefer for them to hit rock bottom, comfortably survive due to their stack of cash, re-evaluate, and come back with a new console, hungry for victory. A hungry console manufacturer tends to be a force to behold, I'd just prefer it if they had a better central idea to work with.
I would say that the DS proves that it is possible, after all the success of the DS had almost nothing to do with its bizarre 2 screens, and everything to do with quality content and the cosmetic appeal of the re-launch DS-lite. The problem here is that the DS didn't have the competition that the WiiU faces, factoring in both current and next gen it's a completely different playing field. The WiiU is on the verge of getting swept under the rug this holiday, and no amount of Pikmin or Smash Bros will be able to withstand the storm.
I will be stunned if Nintendo manage to turn it around, and very impressed. I'd wish them luck but to be honest I'd prefer for them to hit rock bottom, comfortably survive due to their stack of cash, re-evaluate, and come back with a new console, hungry for victory. A hungry console manufacturer tends to be a force to behold, I'd just prefer it if they had a better central idea to work with.
I'm going to start off by laying my cards on the table so as to state where I'm coming from. I'm a Wii U owner from launch, one of the lucky £199 Premium ones. I also own 360s, Wiis, a PS3 and a 3DS amongst other consoles. I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of any one particular company, I grew up on Sega consoles but migrated to PC for a few years before getting back into console gaming with an N64, a Gamecube and a PS2 within a few months of each other.
I usually don't buy a console at launch - I only did with the Wii U because of the Amazon misprice, so if that wasn't the case I'd be looking from the outside in like the vast majority of people.
What I don't understand is the inability to separate the objective reality from personal interest. There's nothing wrong with saying 'I don't like this' because hey, it's a hobby and you're supposed to enjoy it. Yes, the Wii U is selling badly, yes the release schedule is bare and yes, third party support isn't what people were lead to believe before launch.
However, third party support at launch isn't a particularly great barometer. I didn't like the Xbox 360 for a long time, I think the first games that really caught my eye were Gears of War and Mass Effect. This puts it around 2007, a couple of years after the US launch. I even got the PS3 before my first 360, even though it was mocked for either not having games or having substandard ports. The PS3 started off this gen absolutely terribly, I remember the boxes piled high at launch. The games seemed lacklustre and there were vague promises of support - everyone was in for Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5 and the next Final Fantasy but in terms of what you could pick up right away, pickings were pretty slim. Correct me if I'm wrong but the first excellent exclusive would've been Uncharted around 07/08?
Anyway, launches by and large are terrible value for money. You pay over the odds for a system that has no guarantee of software quality and even worse for trends. The PS1 generation's casual demand was boosted by dance mat games - shops closed down and they still had stock of the buggers. There wasn't anywhere near the same demand once the PS2 hit, not even close. You could still get them but no one asked 'hey, where's Dance Dance Revolution 2003?' in those numbers. No, that was Guitar Hero. Hand on heart, who could say they saw that coming?
There will always be something that ends up capturing the imagination of the greater public and I hate to break it to you guys but that's not us. Talk of Nintendo failing to capture lightning in a bottle a second time is neither here nor there because to us, it's all the same. We came for the Wii Sports and stayed for the Mario Galaxy. Actually we were there anyway, no matter how many people loudly bitched about motion controls and wishing to go back to traditional game input. If anyone could honestly say what the next generation's big hit will be, they ought to go invest right now because there won't be a better time. And I'm not being forceful or incendiary here, because I don't know. On paper, I couldn't tell you why the PS2 did so much better than the Gamecube, Xbox and Dreamcast because technically they were all very capable. Obviously there were differences in marketing, politics and support but objectively you could buy any one of those consoles and have 'enough' games to make your purchase worthwhile. None of them come close to matching the PS2's library and I genuinely think that it was more of a force than the Wii - because the number of people who bought the PS2 can be neatly divided between the 360 and PS3.
It's difficult to evaluate the Wii U because we don't know what the next offerings from MS and Sony will be like in reality and the current competition are incredibly mature. Sony's PSN is miles better than the pitiful offering at launch and the 360's power in numbers on Live is more a self fulfilling prophecy these days - people stick with Live because their friends are on Live so they stick with Live. I'm sure there are examples of people who have made the switch to PS3 but nothing like the shift en masse from PS2 to 360 at the start of this gen.
There are obviously genuine issues with Nintendo - their abortive shift to HD quality, their struggles to maintain their core philosophy while competing in an ever growing market (because you can't argue that tablet and phone gaming isn't competing in the same breath that the casuals have left because of it - if that's where they've gone then it's a competitor and Nintendo need to embrace that).
Those who call for them to go third party are looking at it through the prism of their own hobbies. They don't want to buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games, they want it on their own machine. A homogenous console market would be a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons but understandably people want to be able to play all the games, like they can watch all the films and listen to all the music. However, just look at Sega for an idea of how going third party isn't necessarily a good fit. Plus Nintendo will always have the handheld market to fall back on and if not next gen the one after, they could release a hybrid machine and quell any sort of argument.
It's neither here nor there saying the Wii U is too expensive at £300 (for what it's worth, I think it is) because ultimately it's what the market is prepared to pay. People don't talk too much about the economy but I think it's telling that the number of PS360 consoles sold in the UK has increased but the sales of software has decreased. Surely with a bigger user base you'd at least expect a modest increase but despite that, people are spending less - and presumably choosing to get the most out of the games they already have.
It's concerning that they're not doing well but at the time the Gamecube was up against one behemoth that swept before it - yet the Gamecube is considered a failure whereas the Xbox is looked on much more favourably. Sometimes it feels like Nintendo are held to a different standard, which is fine from a gaming point of view but looking at it as a business then some of the calls are just as weird as the stuff Nintendo plan.
Unfortunately, gamers are fickle. We'll forget a year's barren schedule if the games come thick and fast after - and we'll forget plenty of titles when the games start to dry up. Look at the shift in perspective from the 360 to the PS3.
As for the casuals, well, so far there's nothing for them - on any machine. Why should they leave tablet and phone gaming? It's cheaper, it goes with their phones everywhere and they drop pennies on it.
tl;dr - Wii U is doing badly but it's hardly a death knell when there are so many unknown variables. Nintendo could do a lot more but there's no need for CPR yet.
I'd guess at an E3 price drop to counter any announcements by Sony and MS, plus it would be post summer update so hopefully the OS won't be as ridiculous.
I usually don't buy a console at launch - I only did with the Wii U because of the Amazon misprice, so if that wasn't the case I'd be looking from the outside in like the vast majority of people.
What I don't understand is the inability to separate the objective reality from personal interest. There's nothing wrong with saying 'I don't like this' because hey, it's a hobby and you're supposed to enjoy it. Yes, the Wii U is selling badly, yes the release schedule is bare and yes, third party support isn't what people were lead to believe before launch.
However, third party support at launch isn't a particularly great barometer. I didn't like the Xbox 360 for a long time, I think the first games that really caught my eye were Gears of War and Mass Effect. This puts it around 2007, a couple of years after the US launch. I even got the PS3 before my first 360, even though it was mocked for either not having games or having substandard ports. The PS3 started off this gen absolutely terribly, I remember the boxes piled high at launch. The games seemed lacklustre and there were vague promises of support - everyone was in for Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5 and the next Final Fantasy but in terms of what you could pick up right away, pickings were pretty slim. Correct me if I'm wrong but the first excellent exclusive would've been Uncharted around 07/08?
Anyway, launches by and large are terrible value for money. You pay over the odds for a system that has no guarantee of software quality and even worse for trends. The PS1 generation's casual demand was boosted by dance mat games - shops closed down and they still had stock of the buggers. There wasn't anywhere near the same demand once the PS2 hit, not even close. You could still get them but no one asked 'hey, where's Dance Dance Revolution 2003?' in those numbers. No, that was Guitar Hero. Hand on heart, who could say they saw that coming?
There will always be something that ends up capturing the imagination of the greater public and I hate to break it to you guys but that's not us. Talk of Nintendo failing to capture lightning in a bottle a second time is neither here nor there because to us, it's all the same. We came for the Wii Sports and stayed for the Mario Galaxy. Actually we were there anyway, no matter how many people loudly bitched about motion controls and wishing to go back to traditional game input. If anyone could honestly say what the next generation's big hit will be, they ought to go invest right now because there won't be a better time. And I'm not being forceful or incendiary here, because I don't know. On paper, I couldn't tell you why the PS2 did so much better than the Gamecube, Xbox and Dreamcast because technically they were all very capable. Obviously there were differences in marketing, politics and support but objectively you could buy any one of those consoles and have 'enough' games to make your purchase worthwhile. None of them come close to matching the PS2's library and I genuinely think that it was more of a force than the Wii - because the number of people who bought the PS2 can be neatly divided between the 360 and PS3.
It's difficult to evaluate the Wii U because we don't know what the next offerings from MS and Sony will be like in reality and the current competition are incredibly mature. Sony's PSN is miles better than the pitiful offering at launch and the 360's power in numbers on Live is more a self fulfilling prophecy these days - people stick with Live because their friends are on Live so they stick with Live. I'm sure there are examples of people who have made the switch to PS3 but nothing like the shift en masse from PS2 to 360 at the start of this gen.
There are obviously genuine issues with Nintendo - their abortive shift to HD quality, their struggles to maintain their core philosophy while competing in an ever growing market (because you can't argue that tablet and phone gaming isn't competing in the same breath that the casuals have left because of it - if that's where they've gone then it's a competitor and Nintendo need to embrace that).
Those who call for them to go third party are looking at it through the prism of their own hobbies. They don't want to buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games, they want it on their own machine. A homogenous console market would be a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons but understandably people want to be able to play all the games, like they can watch all the films and listen to all the music. However, just look at Sega for an idea of how going third party isn't necessarily a good fit. Plus Nintendo will always have the handheld market to fall back on and if not next gen the one after, they could release a hybrid machine and quell any sort of argument.
It's neither here nor there saying the Wii U is too expensive at £300 (for what it's worth, I think it is) because ultimately it's what the market is prepared to pay. People don't talk too much about the economy but I think it's telling that the number of PS360 consoles sold in the UK has increased but the sales of software has decreased. Surely with a bigger user base you'd at least expect a modest increase but despite that, people are spending less - and presumably choosing to get the most out of the games they already have.
It's concerning that they're not doing well but at the time the Gamecube was up against one behemoth that swept before it - yet the Gamecube is considered a failure whereas the Xbox is looked on much more favourably. Sometimes it feels like Nintendo are held to a different standard, which is fine from a gaming point of view but looking at it as a business then some of the calls are just as weird as the stuff Nintendo plan.
Unfortunately, gamers are fickle. We'll forget a year's barren schedule if the games come thick and fast after - and we'll forget plenty of titles when the games start to dry up. Look at the shift in perspective from the 360 to the PS3.
As for the casuals, well, so far there's nothing for them - on any machine. Why should they leave tablet and phone gaming? It's cheaper, it goes with their phones everywhere and they drop pennies on it.
tl;dr - Wii U is doing badly but it's hardly a death knell when there are so many unknown variables. Nintendo could do a lot more but there's no need for CPR yet.
I'd guess at an E3 price drop to counter any announcements by Sony and MS, plus it would be post summer update so hopefully the OS won't be as ridiculous.
Mysterious
Banned
DKCR is an internal title. Retro is as Nintendo as EAD. LM2 is outsourced though.
NeonZ
Member
It's not just Western though. Japan has even less PS3/WiiU multiplatform games, especially if you look past the launch line up.
I agree that the tablet has ended up as an obstacle to the Wii U's success, due to raising the console's price and not really appealing to many people, but I think you overstimate the launch of the next PS and Microsoft consoles. Even if they're succesful and appealing, looking at console launchs since the 360's, with the Wii's, and its lower price standing as the sole exception, initial adoption of the systems always seems to be fairly slow. They won't create a PS2-like 21 millions juggernault in 6 months doesn't matter how well they do, so they shouldn't be able to "crush" the market and destroy everything else just by existing. Nintendo just needs to get out of the hole they've buried for themselves and they'll be able to at least move Wii U units, even if any kind of market lead seems unrealistic at this point.
Aquamarine
Member
I find it quite funny how Retro Studios is "more Nintendo" than HAL Laboratory + Kirby games , or Game Freak + Pokemon games (because they are technically third-party studios).
- Japan: 3ds = success across age groups, surprisingly successful among females, soft sales healthy overall.
- everywhere else: 3ds = qualified success amongst under 12s, failure in the 20+, full retail software sales per unit are well below historic average.
The market is changing, and that has affected Nintendo's handheld business negatively. It is pretty hard to argue against this in 2013.
On a personal note, I wish the above wasn't the case, as I despise the microtransaction freemium garbage that infests iOS and Android.
D.Lo
Member
This point can never be made enough. The Gamecube and Xbox sold roughly the same number of consoles, one made their company money, and the other lost 4 billion dollars.
I just can't stand the way Microsoft bought their way into the market and people have accepted this. Every other company in the history of gaming earned their way by releasing products that competed in the market fairly, but MS came in and changed the game, so much that Sony bizarrely also followed them down the profit-black-hole route. And now the Xbox division is profitable basically because they are the last man standing.
in a roundabout way, you've just proven that they can't adequately support two platforms of this level horsepower.
This isn't a 2D focused shitty-3D handheld, and the Wii U is drastically more powerful than the GC and Wii. That brings with it higher expectations from a production stand point.
If the one poster a while back was right, and they've dipped into their war chest for expansion purposes, it's only been recently. You won't see results from that for at least another year.
Premium Wii U with Nintendo Land and zombi U £199.99 in-store, tasty.
Subtle, Mr.Messi
Subtle, Mr.Messi
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Oh dear, why be stupid?
So the GBA and DS were 3D powerhouses? You two want to counter argue how development costs for those platforms compared to the 3DS are the same?
Or would you like me to take your drive by replies and lack of analysis as conceding the point?
Edit: Added a hyphen between 3D and shitty, so no misconstrues my argument as console wars fanboy trolling.
Yeah I thought it was directed to 3DS, which was odd to read. Apologies.
Pretty damn sure everyone's messing around, just generally talking about it. Unless everyone actually takes this stuff seriously. Its just a inanimate object...
evilromero
Member
What do you mean this early? We're entering into its third year.
A lot of the games were released within the first year, with most being in development or at least conceptualised since it was shown off at E3 2010. People are free to ignore my posts if they feel its shitting up the thread.
Acheteedo
Member
What the incoming next-gen systems can do is steal the spotlight pretty quickly, not just from consumers but from developers, it already looks like the big third party games are hitting PS4/Durango day 1 (Battlefield and CoD appear to be a lock), whereas the WiiU launched with current gen leftovers, and is currently fighting for scraps. With the WiiU off to a rocky start (during the head start that was their main advantage), I don't see the situation shifting gears.
Sure PS4/Durango could have a rocky start too, but I don't see it happening, I'm probably just projecting myself on the situation, but it seems to me that a lot more people are chomping at the bit for those consoles than they were/are for WiiU. Serve me up a heaping dish o' crow if I'm wrong and I'll tuck in.
Yeah I do agree that Nintendo are having trouble supporting the Wii U but I think it speaks more about their first forays into HD development rather than inability to support two platforms. Wii and DS did a mighty fine job co-existing with the both of them turning the Nintendo brand into a powerhouse and since the switch between GC and Wii was so minor they already had development tools they were used to. The whole "they can't support two platforms at once" argument doesn't convince me the slightest.
2 years of a Wii software drought should have been spent working on the new software for the Wii U but I'm inclined to believe that if all Nintendo's main teams have been busy doing games for the Wii U (and why shouldn't they?) then I think there ought to be a good line-up behind the scenes waiting to come out that's been held back on account of development issues.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Yup.
Still remembering all of my non gaming parent friends asking me if the new Nintendo tablet is any good or if they should just keep the 3DS for Junior.
No idea that it was a home console.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Shield is more of a "gaming" tablet. It's not really a dedicated gaming handheld either. AFAIK it will have a full on ecosystem with access to movies, ebooks, music, tv shows, apps, and obviously games from google play. It's a tablet that is also able to do full on AAA games with the . It's something that the Vita should have been and that Sony should turn the vita into with a new tablet and phone SKU. Could keep the dedicated SKU for the hardcore, but need those two SKUS. Again, I don't think the Shield is a dedicated handheld device. I think by next year it is very likely that the 3DS will be the only dedicated gaming handheld device sold. The vita will either die or be relaunched as a tablet/phone/mobile-gaming hybrid.
Nintendo didn't get hit as hard as Sony did in the dedicated handheld market, but whoever thinks it didn't hit them is kidding themselves. I still have doubts whether the 3DS will reach PSP level sales or even half of the DS sales. Mario Kart 7 might crawl to half of Mario Kart DS sales, but I doubt it will do even that. NSMB 2 will not get to half of NSMB DS sales and most likely will maybe crawl to 1/3 of NDS sales. There are exceptions to the rule like AC 3DS is greatly outselling AC DS and will most likely reach or even surpass it when it gets released in the west.
I truly believe that if Nintendo doesn't change their stance in 4-5 years (that they don't believe they need a tablet/phone SKU and dedicated handhelds are the way to go), then when the 3DS successor is released in 2017 it will get hit just as hard as Sony got hit this generation with the vita.
NeonZ
Member
I don't disagree about that. The WiiU's third party situation is pretty bad. But, it's already bad. It's missing many 360/PS3 multi-platforms, both right during launch and also in these following months (which shows that Nintendo never managed to get third parties on board, even before it turned out to be lacking in sales). It'll need to get by with whatever exclusives Nintendo manages to buy and games made by Nintendo itself.
You're talking like the situation could get even worse, but I don't see it. The reason the Wii U's line up is mostly empty right now is because it's already being ignored by 3rd parties, aside from some specific titles, most of them likely helped by Nintendo in some way, like Lego City and Monster Hunter HD. Aside from Nintendo itself dropping the console like what happened to the Virtual Boy, I don't see how support could get even worse.
I wasn't talking about rocky starts there, I just don't think even a good uptake of the new consoles would create something big enough to completely push the Wii U out of the market. Of course, I'm assuming here that a good uptake would be somewhat above the 360's launch numbers this generation. If the numbers end up much higher than that, I might be mistaken.
Don't understand why after 10 years people still don't understand that Retro Studios is a 1st party development studio. Right up there with EAD Tokyo. It's 100% Nintendo. The same thing with Monolith Soft.
That happens all the time. I worked in retail when I was at school and I had people asking me if they could play PS2 games on their PS1 or if they could use PS2 controllers on the Xbox or if the Xbox played PC games because it's from Microsoft.
Never underestimate the capability to grab the wrong end of a stick by someone who isn't dedicated to a particular hobby. Especially parents. I know that current toys confuse the fuck out of me, went with a mate who was shopping for something for his daughter, he said it was called a Moshi Monster and I had no idea what it was or how it became a thing. It happens, I'm sure when I go back to PC gaming it's going to be incomprehensible to start with because the last PC I made was back in 2004.
Marketing creates a buzz but eventually people just do whatever works for them. I'm sure there are plenty of anecdotes of people with HDTVs and 360s who have it plugged in with composite cables and think that it's high definition.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Holy shit really? £200? Can't say fairer than that really. I think at this point the price is hardly the problem, if you have the software and the "hook", people will pay out the nose for it.
in hindsight I've have shipped a more powerful standard machine with a motion sensing pro controller, and had the tablet as a day one optional accessory for off-screen play, also supporting remoteplay via wifi (with added lag)
I got mine at launch for £199 due to Amazon muck up, cant say I complained.
He's using the hyperbolic literally not the literally literally.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Not happening.
20 million users won't be able to navigate the UI and start a game.
co-sign
I only use it for netflix but I would be pissed if I paid £299.00. I was tempted to cancel originally but figured £199.00 was too good to not follow through.
That's not possible...
Yeah, I was really excited. The error must have been there for a few seconds while the chaos ensued. I even print screened it all and everything lol. I loved playing NSMBU, 100% completed fully on the gamepad while in bed. However I haven't played in a while since I've had soo much coursework. Two week holiday will be my Wii U time!
...Pachter?
Davey Cakes
Member
People need to stop suggesting that Nintendo gets rid of the Gamepad. It's an essential component. Much (though admittedly not all) of the philosophy behind the system is lost without it.
NeonZ
Member
At this point, I think Nintendo's leadership has been shown conservative enough to not do such a big change, but I don't see the problem. Make a WiiU model with a Wiimote and update the OS to make the tablet optional. Give a new name to this model, and turn the Tablet into an optional acessory. It'd make no sense to eat the costs of the Gamepad for years, considering how it'll give no money to Nintendo, unlike Blu-Ray and Sony. There'd be some brand confusion, but there already is confusion, so I don't think things could get even worse. Call it Wii 2 and it might even be easier to get. People who already have Wii Us wouldn't lose anything, aside from the Gamepad being optional to future games.
I don't think it'd sell 20 millions quickly, but at least, it'd remove the console's dead weight. The gamepad was part of the Wii U's core concept, but that concept apparently has no appeal, so insisting on it seems pointless.
I despair.
Duxxy3
Member
Since they need to rewrite the OS to make it less awful, why not add the pro controller or wii remote to control the UI?