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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)

U

Uno Venova

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
It is very bizarre. There's very little room for misunderstanding. Had I wanted to respond to dragon, I simply would have quoted him along with kage. The fact that I didn't should be a clear enough indication for all that I was specifically responding to the person I quoted.

As for the hilarious claim, that last years E3 was 70% to 80% Kinect.
Click to expand...
So you were referencing dragon then.
 
B

Baconsammy

Banned
coldfoot said:
We obviously have different definitions of decent. You need stars which means $$$$, otherwise your show is just like hundreds of shitty low budget syfy channel shows.
Click to expand...

So yeah, this is dumb. The quality of a show is not directly proportional to the number of stars you pay to be in it. Where does this kind of thinking come from? Wow.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
Baconsammy said:
Exactly, if their goal is to prove him wrong, then their goal is to die a quick death.
Click to expand...

I'm not really worried if a console sells 70 million consoles or 200 million. I'm worried about content.

They are separate, in the sense that if MS doesn't pay as much attention to the hardcore as its competitor does, then it's not appealing to me. Why would I choose a platform where the platform holder has a 33%/33%/33% plan of attention and resources use, when the competitor is doing a 60%/20%/20% split in my favor?

When I say prove me wrong, I mean for MS to show me that the competitor isn't spending much more attention on core gamers than they are. That's all.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
Can Crusher said:
I'm not really worried if a console sells 70 million consoles or 200 million. I'm worried about content.

They are separate, in the sense that if MS doesn't pay as much attention to the hardcore as its competitor does, then it's not appealing to me. Why would I choose a platform where the platform holder has a 33%/33%/33% plan of attention and resources use, when the competitor is doing a 60%/20%/20% split in my favor?

When I say prove me wrong, I mean for MS to show me that the competitor isn't spending much more attention on core gamers than they are. That's all.
Click to expand...

Me neither, i just don't want ps4 and pc being held back because microsoft didn't want to step up their specs game if the rumors are true. Or core gaming in general.

Because i already know that next year real($700~1000) gaming rigs will sprint forward again.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
upJTboogie said:
I know kage was talking about only the last e3, but you said a claim was ridiculous, since you responded to someone talking to dragonelite, i assume that was the claim about the last 2 e3's, i don't see another one talking about only 2012.
Click to expand...

If you didn't find the 80% Kinect claim as ridiculous, that's telling in itself.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
dragonelite said:
Me neither, i just don't want ps4 and pc being held back because microsoft didn't want to step up their specs game if the rumors are true. Or core gaming in general.

Because i already know that next year real($700~1000) gaming rigs will sprint forward again.
Click to expand...

I don't know what people are so insecure about. Are we just preparing excuses if god forbid the PS4 isn't as monstrously more powerful than the new xbox as some think? Make no mistake, the PS4 based on the specs we have is the stronger machine, but not nearly as strong as people are making it seem. If the PS4 really has the kind of power that can run circles around the new Xbox, then developers should be more than capable of applying the additional graphical bells and whistles during gameplay that are evidence of this while also doing a very good job on the xbox version, only doing what it can handle. These machines are much easier to develop for than the 360 and PS3, and both are more identical than the 360 and PS3 were. That holding back excuse is one that can't and won't fly this gen.

The PS4 shouldn't be held back by anything, because a lot of extra development headaches are saved by the ease of development compared to previous consoles and the ease of development due to the architectural similarities. Same GPU architecture, same CPUs. If the PS4 has all this extra power to spare, then it should be trivial for developers to exploit that easily. I don't believe the PS4 version is going to be held back and somehow devs won't be able to toss in some extra features to make their ps4 version look amazing. The xbox version not having as many won't suddenly mean it looks like crap.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but this holding back the PS4 thing is something I see as preemptive damage control in the event the next xbox proves more capable than people thought. The PS4 is stronger, nobody is disagreeing with this, but if the gap between it and the next xbox are as big as some think, then the games should easily be able to prove that, multiplatform or otherwise.
 
K

Klocker

Member
SenjutsuSage said:
but this holding back the PS4 thing is something I see as preemptive damage control in the event the next xbox proves more capable than people thought. The PS4 is stronger, nobody is disagreeing with this, but if the gap between it and the next xbox are as big as some think, then the games should easily be able to prove that, multiplatform or otherwise.
Click to expand...

That's a BINGO!
 
V

venne

Member
Can Crusher said:
I'm not really worried if a console sells 70 million consoles or 200 million. I'm worried about content.

They are separate, in the sense that if MS doesn't pay as much attention to the hardcore as its competitor does, then it's not appealing to me. Why would I choose a platform where the platform holder has a 33%/33%/33% plan of attention and resources use, when the competitor is doing a 60%/20%/20% split in my favor?

When I say prove me wrong, I mean for MS to show me that the competitor isn't spending much more attention on core gamers than they are. That's all.
Click to expand...

I really don't know what the hell you, and any one calls themselves a core gamer, are taking about.

Can a core gamer not enjoy so called casual titles?

Are things like Singstar, Dance Central, or Angry Birds an anathema to a core gamer? Because I enjoy those games, but I've also spent over 250 hours playing Civ 5. I guess I'm having a gamer identity crisis.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but a good game is a good game regardless if it's targeting a 'soccer mom', 'dudebro', or whatever condescending demographic label someone on a message board wants to say it was made for.
 
S

Satchel

Banned
Baconsammy said:
That's not a claim, that's an actual fact. Start with the handheld business. They had a relatively small chunk of the marketshare 5 years ago. That's now almost completely gone. Not eaten up by Nintendo (they lost more marketshare than Sony), but by Apple/Google/Amazon. Then the console biz. Who owned the US market 8 years ago by a huge margin? Sony. How much of that market have they lost in the past 8 years? Tons. How is that even a debate. This gen decimated their gaming business. Not beyond repair, but beyond recognition. And I said if they split their market day 1 then they've learned nothing from the previous gen. Don't split your market day 1. Microsoft did the same thing with hard drives and spent the entire generation constantly tweaking their system to include people that bought the so-called "tard packs". I hope multiple SKUs for both Sony and Microsoft this gen just come down to a pack-in game or size of the HD. Make everything standard that you possibly can, and keep every consumer on a semi-equal playing field, which will allow devs to target everyone.
Click to expand...

That hard drive split was a MAJOR fuck up. Long term, I'd argue more so than RROD.

I think about developers could have done so much earlier had the drive been standard from the beginning and it pisses me off. Such a big fuck up, even more so given a hard drive was standard in the old Xbox.

It's amazing actually how well MS has done this gen given what has taken place.

Coming off the tiny Xbox userbase
No standard hard drive for devs to take advantage of
RROD
Overpriced accessories for features that should be built in (hard drives and wifi adaptor)
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
Baconsammy said:
So yeah, this is dumb. The quality of a show is not directly proportional to the number of stars you pay to be in it. Where does this kind of thinking come from? Wow.
Click to expand...
Good quality shows attract stars. Everything about the Halo mini-series screams of shoestring budget and it's no where near comparable to House of Cards. Not even close.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Satchel said:
That hard drive split was a MAJOR fuck up. Long term, I'd argue more so than RROD.

I think about developers could have done so much earlier had the drive been standard from the beginning and it pisses me off. Such a big fuck up, even more so given a hard drive was standard in the old Xbox.
Click to expand...

It was a big sacrifice indeed, but I wouldn't call it a fuck-up, since we know quite precisely how things got decided : for the costs they had chosen, they could either upgrade to 512M RAM from 256M, or add a hard drive in each box. So they let developers decide (Epic among them), and they chose the RAM.
I think it's wise, since the three possible scenarios were :
- 360 at reasonable cost, 512M RAM, no HDD (what we got)
- 360 at reasonable cost, 256M RAM, HDD
- 360 at higher cost, 512M RAM, HDD

Scenarios 2 and 3 would have changed the landscape a lot in the competition with Sony, since price was a big factor in the latter's slower sales, and the amount of unified RAM one of the reasons many multiplatform games looked better on 360.

upJTboogie said:
Metalmurph's math comes out to about 70.
Click to expand...

That's only if you consider any presented game as "tainted" by kinect as long as there are kinect features in them. Mass Effect 3 is not really a kinect game, and certainly not something a game that would make "core" gamers complain (at least not at the time, and its problems have nothing to do with kinect). Same goes for sport games like Tiger Woods or Madden.
A more honest time estimation would probably balance things closer to 50/50. Also, his analysis shows that the first hour of the conference has a good diversity of game types and features. It was only in the last part that MS went all out with kinect because it was the new thing to promote.
 
M

Mr.Wreckless

Banned
coldfoot said:
Good quality shows attract stars. Everything about the Halo mini-series screams of shoestring budget and it's no where near comparable to House of Cards. Not even close.
Click to expand...

Really? What stars did The Wire have? Are you counting Wood Harris as a star? Idris Elba wasn't known at that time and I wouldn't count him as a star either.

Was Seinfeld a star before his show? Not really.

The Walking Dead?
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Baconsammy said:
It was a Live studio-based game. But go ahead and try to downplay the Tellem hire. I personally can't wait to see what she and her team are working on. If it rivals what Netflix is doing with their exclusive content, it'll be a nice addition.
Click to expand...

interactive children's programming.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
ARM chips to rival PS3, Xbox 360 in 18 months? July 2011

ARM has been beating the performance drum again, this time telling the Inquirer that a new Mali GPU design due out in 18 months will make its chips the equal of current-gen gaming consoles like the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3.

So yes, given a process shrink to 28nm or thereabouts, it seems quite possible that ARM will at the very least be able to pack as much hardware as the Xbox 360 does into an application processor.
Click to expand...
We are now seeing 28nm in the PS4 and Xbox 720 and nearly 10X the GPU performance of the PS3 with less power used than the first versions of the PS3 and speculation that the power used will be less than 30% greater than the latest revision of the PS3. So PS4 like hardware at PS3 performance should be in the 20 watt range, ARM designs should be more efficient (Apx 5 watts). Temesh at 15 watts has demo games that look similar/better than PS3 games.

ARM-BASED XBOX ‘LITE’ COMING IN 2013, XBOX 360 SUCCESSOR LATER, INSIDER CLAIMS March 2012

“My understanding is that we’ll see a Xbox device in late 2013 which does Arcade-style games & all the current & future media apps with Kinect (with near-mode),” MS Nerd wrote on Reddit while fielding user-submitted questions. “It will be an ARM-based platform price-competitive with the Apple TV (if you own a Kinect already).”
Click to expand...
This was recently seconded by another reporter, XBOX 360 that runs Win RT (ARM) and is supposed to be Xbox 360 compatible. March 2013

Arm Mali 600 series GPUs are what the first cite above is about "Xbox 360" performance and can even support 4K OS UIs.

The Xbox 720 is supposed to have wake on Voice, Wake on Gesture and wake on LAN to low power serve handhelds in the background. That plus the Low power modes and XTV which is always on when the TV is on require something like ARM for low power modes including the NUI accelerator chip. It also seems likely that there will be ARM CPU and GPU for accelerated browser support in addition to the AMD X86 Jaguar CPUs and Custom AMD GPU.

So ARM IP in the 720 might also be in a Xbox LITE => Xbox 360 performance with ARM and low power XTV support.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
SenjutsuSage said:
I don't know what people are so insecure about. Are we just preparing excuses if god forbid the PS4 isn't as monstrously more powerful than the new xbox as some think? Make no mistake, the PS4 based on the specs we have is the stronger machine, but not nearly as strong as people are making it seem. If the PS4 really has the kind of power that can run circles around the new Xbox, then developers should be more than capable of applying the additional graphical bells and whistles during gameplay that are evidence of this while also doing a very good job on the xbox version, only doing what it can handle. These machines are much easier to develop for than the 360 and PS3, and both are more identical than the 360 and PS3 were. That holding back excuse is one that can't and won't fly this gen.

The PS4 shouldn't be held back by anything, because a lot of extra development headaches are saved by the ease of development compared to previous consoles and the ease of development due to the architectural similarities. Same GPU architecture, same CPUs. If the PS4 has all this extra power to spare, then it should be trivial for developers to exploit that easily. I don't believe the PS4 version is going to be held back and somehow devs won't be able to toss in some extra features to make their ps4 version look amazing. The xbox version not having as many won't suddenly mean it looks like crap.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong, but this holding back the PS4 thing is something I see as preemptive damage control in the event the next xbox proves more capable than people thought. The PS4 is stronger, nobody is disagreeing with this, but if the gap between it and the next xbox are as big as some think, then the games should easily be able to prove that, multiplatform or otherwise.
Click to expand...

I don't know how long you've been following this, but this has been said way before the new year came and way before we had solid indication of which console would be stronger. And of course it only applies to third party games.

I notice a trend of you pointing the fanboy finger to everyone you can, but wanting system power parity is a valid request.
 
M

mavs

Member
Tratorn said:
Don't know if this is the right place, but it's the most active Durango-Thread I think.

Here is a new analysis from someone about the PS4-GPU vs Durango-GPU.
Sounds good for Durango, if he's right.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180504#post180504

I hope this wasn't discussed already.
Click to expand...

It's not right though, so it's irrelevant. DP float operations are 1/2 single precision performance on GCN; that's where the 32 64-bit operations figure comes from for PS4. It's the same for Durango, but the Durango figure uses the more relevant single precision performance.
 
R

Razgreez

Member
Tratorn said:
Don't know if this is the right place, but it's the most active Durango-Thread I think.

Here is a new analysis from someone about the PS4-GPU vs Durango-GPU.
Sounds good for Durango, if he's right.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180504#post180504

I hope this wasn't discussed already.
Click to expand...

The post you quoted was like an exercise in showing how to speculate without understanding what one is speculating about. Quite embarrassing using a troll as a referrence
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Reiko said:
misterxmedia making a logical post?

Wut?
Click to expand...
It's misterCteam not misterXmedia. "C" has the opinion that Microsoft, because they hired engineers from IBM and AMD who have published patents that can relate to the Xbox 720, have features in the Xbox 720 GPU that can increase performance.

Most of what he posts is at a min educational though hard to follow as English is not his native language. A large part of his speculation can't fit into a 28nm 2013 TDP envelope.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
jeff_rigby said:
It's misterCmedia not misterXmedia. "C" has the opinion that Microsoft, because they hired engineers from IBM and AMD who have published patents that can relate to the Xbox 720, have features in the Xbox 720 GPU that can increase performance.

Most of what he posts is at a min educational though hard to follow as English is not his native language. A large part of his speculation can't fit into a 28nm 2013 TDP envelope.
Click to expand...

Ah.
 
J

jaosobno

Member
E

ekim

Member
Graeme Boyd from Xbox EMEA weighing in.
untitledxtu6c.png


:lol
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
Pretty sure IGN guy was joking he was on holiday and it'd be his luck for MS to announce now seeing as hes head of IGN Xbox.

Its not an April Fools; its called reading gaf.
 
S

surly

Banned
statham said:
Gamestop has info but isn't sharing.
http://www.videogamer.com/news/gamestop_has_information_on_microsofts_next-gen_xbox.html 4/02/13

hmm...
Click to expand...
You could have put the bold part into context. From the same article: -

Explaining the retailer's decision to withhold guidance on its digital revenue expectations for 2014, president Tony Bartlet teased that he was aware of some of Microsoft's next-gen plans, but suggested that he would rather information on the upcoming console was made public before discussing future outlooks.
Click to expand...
 
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