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Redskins owner says they'll "Never change the name"
- Thread starter Amory
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ratcliffja
Member
It may be a private entity, but it is governed by the NFL, which can be swayed by popular opinion. If people made enough of a stink about it such that it made the NFL as a whole look bad, you can bet that they'd be forced to change it. With that said, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon. It's more likely that the name won't change until the team changes ownership if then.
And fans choose to cheer and spectate humans sacrificing their short and long-term physical and mental health for the sake of entertainment. I don't see there being a big enough uproar to make Snyder change the name. All he cares about is making money.
Snyder is a man that bought out all of the radio stations and newspapers in Washington to control the message about his football team. He is a ruthless owner. The Redskins brand and the tradition associated with that has made the Redskins the 2nd most valuable team in the NFL and the top 5 in all of professional sports. I can't see them giving in on this.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
The players are putting their physical and future mental wellbeing on the line under their own free will, I'm not sure what that has to do with the racist football team name.
Just a few points...
- From what I've read, the name was a term of endearment. And around the 1700's it became a means to refer to the scalps of those who natives who were killed by bounty hunters.
- There are some Native Americans who defend and like the name. There are others who want it changed.
- Native Americans represent 1% of our population. I'd like to hear more from them and less from those who feel the need to be offended just to be offended.
- I do not believe those who offend have the right to tell the offended how to feel.
- From what I've read, the name was a term of endearment. And around the 1700's it became a means to refer to the scalps of those who natives who were killed by bounty hunters.
- There are some Native Americans who defend and like the name. There are others who want it changed.
- Native Americans represent 1% of our population. I'd like to hear more from them and less from those who feel the need to be offended just to be offended.
- I do not believe those who offend have the right to tell the offended how to feel.
Is it not?! LOL My apologies then. I can't keep up. My folk were nego's, black, colored, african american. LOL I dunno what we'll be called next. I might miss that memo too. lol
I'm saying that nothing with move Snyder's finger or the NFL's without there being a financial incentive to the move. There is not a big enough uproar, the majority of Native Americans don't find it offensive based on the poll, and the Redskins are a team that has built their brand around traditions and rivalries.
Snyder is an asshole for saying "never," because it seems to be an arrogant choice and one that seems like he didn't consider anything, but it's his choice.
The NFL was and still is slow to give health benefits to players suffering early onset dementia and debilitating drug addiction as a result of sacrificing their bodies due to pressure from coaches to play or from themselves. Changing the name of a team when the owner doesn't want it will take an extraordinary effort.
Future PhaZe
Member
I'm having a hard time of finding evidence of the term "red skin" being used as as a derogatory term, other than the obvious situations of Americans being at war with them and referring to them as "red skins" on occasion--which native americans themselves used to call themselves.
However, an exact parellel to that would be having a logo of George Washington and calling the team the Washington White-skins. In both cases I think native Americans / white people are being celebrated rather than the opposite, but from a politically correct standpoint both are awkward.
I think the name itself is fine, but the logo and imagery being used to suggest that Redskins stand for Indians should be changed. Redskins can also stand for pigskins or virtually anything else, and Redskins lore has actually been more about hogs and pigskins than anything Indian related anyway.
However, an exact parellel to that would be having a logo of George Washington and calling the team the Washington White-skins. In both cases I think native Americans / white people are being celebrated rather than the opposite, but from a politically correct standpoint both are awkward.
I think the name itself is fine, but the logo and imagery being used to suggest that Redskins stand for Indians should be changed. Redskins can also stand for pigskins or virtually anything else, and Redskins lore has actually been more about hogs and pigskins than anything Indian related anyway.
I was actually reading up on it earlier today and found this article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html
According to this persons research, the term like all others have gone through transformations.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Washington Palefaces
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
I believe the poll you're referring to hasn't been properly cited, if that's not the case link please.
Also financial implications have little to do with having racial slurs as team names, I imagine the name will change once he dies and he'll leave a legacy of ignorance.
And here's the flip-side of the coin from an full-blooded American Chief... Someone who's opinion actually matters, just like other American Indians who disagree with him.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...t-chief-who-supports-use-redskins-name-149206
Stephen Dodson Inuit Chief said:
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...t-chief-who-supports-use-redskins-name-149206
MorisUkunRasik
Member
That parallel only works if in that alternate reality american Indians went to england killed most of the native white folk, stole land and spent centuries painting them as savages and then used offensive images and slurs as their football team names and mascots.
samus i am
Member
There you have it folks. But I doubt this will actually end the debate. Some people just love to be offended.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Like there isn't an article in this thread about a group of native Americans protesting these names.
I'd like to link you to the website of the black man who is against laws allowing interracial marriage but I'm on my phone at the moment.
There's a link saying they are. And I just posted a link of a full-blooded American Indian Chief who represents a group of folks who aren't. And that's the issue at hand, how many of the offended are truly offended.
I don't care if white/black/brown people feel like they want to champion for these people. I don't care if you or anyone else wants to be offended for American Indians. I want to know who of that 1% of our population are truly offended. What is their stance on the issue.
Yeah or Washington Reds.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Seeing as there's a high chance of me being of Indian ancestry does that make you take my opinion more seriously, or should we just stick to the fact that its a racial slur?
A high chance? lol you either know or you don't.
- Seeing as though, my fathers side of the family runs rich with American Indian heritage I'd say that our opinions are equal.
- Unless you identify as an American Indian, your opinion matters no more than mine. But the wording if your post doesn't make it seem as though you do.
- If you do identify as an American Indian, your opinion is no greater than those who take the term as a badge of honor.
Again, I'd much rather focus on those who are truly offended. And not the usual suspects who like to be offended for the sake of being so.
I don't think there's an "oops" to it. Both sides need to continue to speak up.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
The issue is, is it a slur or not and is the imagery racist or not. It is. My or your race doesn't give us more authority.
If there were a hockey team called the San Jose Vatos, you don't need to be Hispanic to understand that the name and racist imagery would be offensive.
Edit: and I guarantee there would be a ton of Hispanics who couldn't care less or actually endorse it.
It appears as though it's not that clear cut with this term. At least according to a true blooded American Indian. How about you email him and tell him that he should be offended.
I think there are people in here telling you there there is evidence that it may not be perceived as a racial slur universally. Personally, I have always thought it was insensitive, but not a slur outright. You seem to be saying it's a slur per se. It might be silly to describe racial groups by color, but it's done. People from Europe are described as "White" and people from Africa as "Black", and that's not perceived as racist. I don't really see how "Red" to describe Native Americans is any different. Maybe it's the use of the phrase "Skins" afterwards? Maybe it seems like a slur to you, but for me, and a lot of other people, it just sounds antiquated (and I'll grant silly and insensitive).
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Jury's still out on interracial marriage too then eh?
What about yellow?
We don't get to choose what words are racist, racist assholes do. See: Jap.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Washington Rednecks
sure
i was referring to the poster saying "i doubt this will end the debate", as though it should
I don't think the description of "red" really bothers anyone. I mean, Oklahoma is literally Choctaw for "red people" and was proposed before statehood by the Choctaw. So I do think its more of the use "skins" on the end of it like you said.
Again, I'm Chickasaw, and I can understand how people might find it offensive, but its so minor in the grand scheme of things. I'd much rather the leadership of the Chickasaw Nation focus on combating language extinction, cultural education, and in general helping everyone rather than worry about a team name.
Ah, my bad.
Amazing, THIS is the perspective that we need to hear more often in regards to this issue.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
That sounds pretty awesome.
As you gloss over the thoughts and opinion of someone (Butane123) who actually has the right to be offended. Thus proving my point.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Its not an either or proposition. It shouldn't be so hard for a team to stop using redskins and chief wahoo to promote their teams
As for tribes using red in their names, that's like citing the uncf so you can call people 'negro'.
You mean the kind that backs you up?
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
The name? Fair enough I think it should be changed. Its clearly a slur.
But are People are really offended by the indian chief logo?
Im Irish, so this is offensive and must be changed at once!!
Fuck off with this PC garbage.
But are People are really offended by the indian chief logo?
Im Irish, so this is offensive and must be changed at once!!
sarcasm
Fuck off with this PC garbage.
That's crap and completely tangent to what the article was discussing.
samus i am
Member
It's pretty obvious that this isn't a debate. Their minds have been made up, and that is that.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're a white male? I'm so glad all the white people are fighting back against political correctness. They know better than anyone else how offended we should all be.
Not at all... The perspective of someone who actually has a right to be offended. Not some keyboard jockey who's picked his offense of the week to get butt-hurt over.
Im Irish, so this is offensive and must be changed at once!!sarcasm
Fuck off with this PC garbage.
You want to fight about it?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
You haven't responded to any of my posts directed at you. You should just stop.
Dude Abides
Banned
The name? Fair enough I think it should be changed. Its clearly a slur.
But are People are really offended by the indian chief logo?
Im Irish, so this is offensive and must be changed at once!!sarcasm
Fuck off with this PC garbage.
It was pretty sweet when the Stanford band did a tribute to the potato famine at Notre Dame.
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