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[Skunkers]

The point of the “random article” was to show that the year after Wizarding World opened, attendance at Disney World dipped while Universal's increased.

I'm as pro-Universal as you can get and I'm kinda anti-WDW because of how poorly managed it's been over the past 10 years or so. With that being said: sorry, but you're off base here.

Universal's market share increased a bit and Disney's shrunk slightly, but a lot of Universal's gain was stolen from Sea World. A decrease in market share is not a decrease in attendance; on the contrary, the market itself grew by 7% this year. WDW's attendance figures have been growing and have never been higher. For a bit of perspective, if you take the attendance of the Magic Kingdom alone (19.3M)... it is higher than both Universal parks combined (8.3M USF and 8.1M IOA). That's not even counting Epcot, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom or the water parks. Part of the reason why is that a lot of visitors go to both, so Universal's additions don't just bring new guests to Universal; they bring more people to Orlando where they go to Disney too.

WDW is a juggernaut, which is frustrating because Universal is making huge waves nowadays but it's not hurting WDW in the slightest, even though it should be.

 

[Jack Remington]

Kind of misleading. Most of the attractions that will be shut down aren't particularly important. Not to be a dick, but Big Thunder Ranch doesn't exactly draw the crowds.

 

[davepoobond]

Space Mountain is normally a minute thirty seconds long, but STtG speeds it up to be around or under a minute.

Some background: I've never ridden Space Mountain before, but I recently went to Disneyland for the first time in maybe 15-20 years with a friend of mine because we got free passes. I fucking HATE rollercoasters and get intense motion sickness so it was a huge deal for her to even convince me to get on it in the first place. She felt terrible that STtG was the version of the ride I got to experience.

I felt like I was gonna die. I never want to go on it again but I am curious as to what a slowed down version of the ride would be like, especially without shit flying and screaming in my face the whole time. 30 seconds is a LONG time when you're on a rollercoaster scared to death trying not to black out.

im with you, i pretty much had a panic attack on space mountain when i did it once. safe to say no other roller coasters were ridden that day.

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and Peter Pan are my favorite rides at Disneyland, because i don't freak out

 

[Parham]

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and Peter Pan are my favorite rides at Disneyland, because i don't freak out

I'm amazed by the popularity of Peter Pan. Every time I've gone to Disneyland, the wait time has consistently hovered around 40-50 minutes.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Much of hollywood studios where it's going in Orlando has already been closed since early in the year. That park is already pretty crappy with what little is left of it. They took out the neat historical history of animation stuff and put in the new star wars exhibit, but rest has been mostly closures as they prepare to redo a ton of that park.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I've never been and I'm hoping to go this Feb. hope it's still worth it.

Also, what's there to do if you go twice a week?!?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Disney World is better anyway.

Yep. Though Disney really needs to reign in their prices. It's getting harder and harder for people who aren't upper middle class or who live nearby to go more than once in their lives.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't get the WDW and Universal pissing match. I mean I kind of do because they're in the same business but I feel like they offer different experiences and are both viable.

WDW is the king but that doesn't mean Universal/IOA isn't strong either. I think there is room for both in Orlando. WDW is more polished obviously but I think Universal skews slightly older which isn't a bad thing. I mean if I'm going to battle those strollers and wheelchairs in Magic Kingdom, I'd like the ability to get a drink or five.

Then again, they've convinced people to stand in line for 2+ hours to "ride" It's a Small World so I guess they're the experts here.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yep. Though Disney really needs to reign in their prices. It's getting harder and harder for people who aren't upper middle class or who live nearby to go more than once in their lives.

They won't till attendance becomes a problem. Despite increasing prices, they are not seeing a drop in people going to the parks. Just the past few days ago, they had to close some of the parks temporarily due to being at capacity, something that rarely happens.

 

[RetroMG]

I dont think i ever been to the Big Thunder Ranch thing. it looks like a dumb underused place, so i'm glad its going away. i think i remember that area always being empty whenever i went to disneyland. no idea what even goes on there

It mostly is, but they have an all-you-can-eat barbecue thing back there that is really expensive, ($20/person) but the food is fantastic. My in-laws took me and my wife to it, and I thought I would be a big shot and insist on paying. When I saw the actual price I thought, "I am not a smart man."

 

[BamfMeat]

We reupped our annual pass this year but haven't been since. TouringPlans has had the crowds at solid 10s for the last 2 months. I'll pass. I'm not about to deal with lines, even for my Disneyland fix.

I miss it though.

I knew Big Thunder Mountain BBQ was closing. That sucks - that was a "must do" when we go. It's the only place I'll eat meat on bones.

If the Star Wars land keeps the areas controlled like Carsland does, then I won't have any problems going back. Carsland was nice when it opened because EVERYONE wanted to be there. We could do pretty much everything else and the lines were shorter everywhere else. If that happens with Star Wars land, then I'm down. 5 minute lines at Pirates and Haunted Mansion? Yes please!

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

They won't till attendance becomes a problem. Despite increasing prices, they are not seeing a drop in people going to the parks. Just the past few days ago, they had to close some of the parks temporarily due to being at capacity, something that rarely happens.

It sucks that the most economical way to go yearly or biyearly is to buy a second hand vacation club property.

My wife and I are saving up for a 100 point AKL membership and we plan to pay off the whole thing at once and only need to pay yearly membership. We also plan to buy a yearly pass to use twice (buy one first week of February, go the next year in January on the same pass).

Beyond that even if we wanted to only go every other year it would rapidly outpace the expense.

 

[Gonzalez]

In other news... This is why Disney World has always been superior to the park that west coasters have to pretend to like, Disneyland.

 

[Rival]

Those 14% of the attractions probably account for about 2% of the total foot traffic of all the attractions. I love Disneyland. It does get really crowded through tomorrowland though. If you know what you're doing and use the fast pass system and get to the park early in the day it's easy to do everything without wasting all day standing in line.

And I cannot believe any true Disney fan would think that Disney World is better than Disneyland. The attractions that the parks share are almost always better at Disneyland. And I am a huge fan of Disney World. I've been to both places in the last two months.

 

[Gonzalez]

They won't till attendance becomes a problem. Despite increasing prices, they are not seeing a drop in people going to the parks. Just the past few days ago, they had to close some of the parks temporarily due to being at capacity, something that rarely happens.

It's the Christmas season(their best business period). They always have huge crowds to the point they have to close the park due to capacity, or at least they should close it. There have been times I've been there around Christmas, where, I shit you not, it felt like I was in a mosh pit.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

It's the Christmas season(their best business period). They always have huge crowds to the point they have to close the park due to capacity, or at least they should close it. There have been times I've been there around Christmas, where, I shit you not, it felt like I was in a mosh pit.

Yet go in the middle of January after everyone goes back to school and work and it's comparatively paradise. Though crowds have been increasing year round. I like to go in January because it's the dry season and it's still warm enough to wear shorts and a t-shirt (unless you are from Florida and 65 degree weather warrants a winter coat) and go swimming during the day.

 

[Gonzalez]

Yet go in the middle of January after everyone goes back to school and work and it's comparatively paradise. Though crowds have been increasing year round. I like to go in January because it's the dry season and it's still warm enough to wear shorts and a t-shirt (unless you are from Florida and 65 degree weather warrants a winter coat) and go swimming during the day.

Oh I know that, that's why I've turned down recent family invitations to theme parks In December. I've done it three times now, and it's only caused misery. There won't be a 4th time.

 

[Technosteve]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

 

[radioactivez0r]

RIP Big Thunder Ranch BBQ ;_;

I made my first, and sadly it appears last, trip to that place in September and holy shit was it good. I'm super bummed that I never went before :\

 

[i am unagi]

WDW is a juggernaut, which is frustrating because Universal is making huge waves nowadays but it's not hurting WDW in the slightest, even though it should be.

You're right. I'm more *hoping* something will put a dent into Disneyland, especially after the last ticket price hike. It would be great to see them lower those prices again, but that probably won't happen.

Do you think attendance will dip at all even with 14% of the park closed?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

Ew. No. Character creep needs to be reversed in Epcot and they need to bring back more science based attractions.

I wish that they'd also dump the fantasy bullshit in Animal Kingdom. It feels like AK and Epcot has lost their way.

 

[mcfrank]

You're right. I'm more *hoping* something will put a dent into Disneyland, especially after the last ticket price hike. It would be great to see them lower those prices again, but that probably won't happen.

Do you think attendance will dip at all even with 14% of the park closed?

Why would they lower prices when they run at max capacity with the higher prices?

 

[msdstc]

Came to defend universal lol, good to see Hollywood was the one on hand,because universal/ioa Orlando have Become pretty amazing . on top of that kingkong and the hulk redesign come this summer. Summer after that Fallon ride, fast and furious, new water park on property. Then summer of 18 is when nintendoland is projected. Really stepping up the theme park wars.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It sucks that the most economical way to go yearly or biyearly is to buy a second hand vacation club property.

My wife and I are saving up for a 100 point AKL membership and we plan to pay off the whole thing at once and only need to pay yearly membership. We also plan to buy a yearly pass to use twice (buy one first week of February, go the next year in January on the same pass).

Beyond that even if we wanted to only go every other year it would rapidly outpace the expense.

Even as AP holder, it's getting harder and harder to justify the price. The costs just go up, and we are not seeing the parks being more accessible, they just seem to get worse with lines and crowds. This year the food and wine festival at epcot was the worst I've seen for crowds and have got 5 years straight. We tried to different weekends, multiple days, but the crowds were just crazy.

I would be ok with paying more for the tix if the parks were feeling less crowded, but the price hikes really don't seem to be doing anything, people want the Disney fruit.

If it wasn't for the fastpass system and having AP's to go and plan our trips quick and easy, we would have stopped going long ago. But the crowds are really killing the enjoyment of the parks

Ew. No. Character creep needs to be reversed in Epcot and they need to bring back more science based attractions.

I wish that they'd also dump the fantasy bullshit in Animal Kingdom. It feels like AK and Epcot has lost their way.

What they are doing with Norway and Frozen... ugh.

 

[Gonzalez]

What they are doing with Norway and Frozen... ugh.

Did anybody give a shit about Norway in the first place?

 

[Alienous]

They should have Stormtroopers guarding the construction site.

 

[Defuser]

You know shouldn't Disney expanded their Star Wars construction waaaaaay before the movie is released after they acquire Lucasfilms? They could have raked in more money that way instead of losing steam a few months later to make less money due to construction?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Did anybody give a shit about Norway in the first place?

I enjoyed Maelstrom (because it was so cheesy and Oilman Jesus, I actually rode it oh the last day it was open). But yes, the entire World Showcase needs an update, but it shouldn't be filled with fictional shit.

 

[BamfMeat]

Yet go in the middle of January after everyone goes back to school and work and it's comparatively paradise. Though crowds have been increasing year round. I like to go in January because it's the dry season and it's still warm enough to wear shorts and a t-shirt (unless you are from Florida and 65 degree weather warrants a winter coat) and go swimming during the day.

Still isn't looking great-great.

 

[Thaedolus]

You know shouldn't Disney expanded their Star Wars construction waaaaaay before the movie is released after they acquire Lucasfilms? They could have raked in more money that way instead of losing steam a few months later to make less money due to construction?

You can't just start major construction at a theme park overnight, and Star Wars isn't going to lose steam any time soon. This will be awesome when it's done.

 

[i am unagi]

Why would they lower prices when they run at max capacity with the higher prices?

You think they are going to continue to run at max capacity even with 14% closed? That is what I'm trying to get at here. I honestly don't know.

 

[Vyrance]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

No way, Epcot is the best Disney park in Orlando

 

[Gonzalez]

No way, Epcot is the best Disney park in Orlando

It was actually a really good experience when I went there for the first time as an adult a few years ago. Was a really nice experience to get away from the screaming kids, and long lines of Magic Kingdom. But then I went a 2nd to Epcot as an adult, and I ended up realizing I spent almost a hundred dollars just to enter basically an international mall, with two rides I'm willing to stand in line for(Test Track, and Soarin).

 

[SenorPopOff]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

Getting drunk around World Showcase during the Food and Wine Festival is the best time to be had at Disney.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It was actually a really good experience when I went there for the first time as an adult a few years ago. Was a really nice experience to get away from the screaming kids, and long lines of Magic Kingdom. But then I went a 2nd to Epcot as an adult, and I ended up realizing I spent almost a hundred dollars just to enter basically an international mall, with two rides I'm willing to stand in line for(Test Track, and Soarin).

Best part of epcot is drinking/eating around the world. It does have some of best food in all of Disney, and tons of international options if your a foodie. Also varied alcohol choices. Most fun I've ever had at disney has been multiple drinking/eatings around the world, not even touching rides. And it's probably one of the most popular aspects of Epcot for adults.

The fear is that they are going to keep adding in kiddy attractions to the world showcases and turn it into another big kid destination. right now the world showcase is not a popular place to take the kids, so adults love it

Getting drunk around World Showcase during the Food and Wine Festival is the best time to be had at Disney.

This

 

[see5harp]

You can't really credit Disneyland for having shorter lines than Six Flags. The line for Hyperspace Mountain was 3 hours this weekend and the only ride that had a line under an hour was the Jungle Cruise

Seriously. There's only been a couple days in the last few years where I've gone and not waited an hour to ride something. I'd say the same thing about Magic Mountain but honestly it's much less aggravating when your parking didn't cost anything and you bought a pass for the entire year for the cost of a single day and parking at Disneyland.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

How does one "Take Apart" an entire theme park?

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Used to go to DisneyLand multiple times a week as a kid in the 90s/early 2000s. None of this is a big loss at all.

As far as lines being long, only ones I recall during my time being bad were Matterhorn and Splash Mountain. And unlike Six Flags or other parks, lines were kind of fun to wait in, at least as a kid, with how they themed them as well.

Before I moved out of SoCal in 2003 my family did one last trip to Disney and there was no line for Space Mountain at all. My bro and I did it at least 5+ times back to back no waiting.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Seriously. There's only been a couple days in the last few years where I've gone and not waited an hour to ride something. I'd say the same thing about Magic Mountain but honestly it's much less aggravating when your parking didn't cost anything and you bought a pass for the entire year for the cost of a single day and parking at Disneyland.

Its the new FastPass+ bullshit. Spaceship Earth in Epcot used to be a walk-on ride. No wait. Now at best it's 10 minutes. Rides like Pirates are even worse.

 

[BattleMonkey]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

Carsland which was large but not as large as SW land is going to be, took them 5 years to finish it. It's been a couple years for them to finish a much smaller scale section of Avatar for AK too. Star Wars land hasn't even broke ground on construction. So we ain't seeing Star Wars land till past 2020 most likely

Its the new FastPass+ bullshit. Spaceship Earth in Epcot used to be a walk-on ride. No wait. Now at best it's 10 minutes. Rides like Pirates are even worse.

Fast Pass has been a blessing, going to the parks without it is a nightmare, now you can plan your schedule and not have to wait for the rides you want.

The fast pass system is also designed to spread people throughout the park, the point of the system is to schedule people to be going to areas of the park and rides when other sections are going to be having high volume. It spreads out the population of the park which often will focus on popular attractions. People making fast passes are given instant access to rides where the population is going to be lower.

 

[muteki]

when are the star wars stuff hitting disney world, please take apart epcot and put in world of star wars please

Please keep the licensed shit out of EPCOT please. Yes, even Star Wars.

It's bad enough that we have to deal with Nemo and Frozen now.

Getting drunk around World Showcase during the Food and Wine Festival is the best time to be had at Disney.

Thank you.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Please keep the licensed shit out of EPCOT please. Yes, even Star Wars.

It's bad enough that we have to deal with Nemo and Frozen now.

The gutting of The Living Seas and the absolute destruction of Maelstrom are wounds that will likely never heal.

Epcot is just a sad, soulless place these days.

 

[thezerofire]

In other news... This is why Disney World has always been superior to the park that west coasters have to pretend to like, Disneyland.

nah, Disneyland has almost all of the same rides in fewer parks and you can walk between them, plus better weather

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

nah, Disneyland has almost all of the same rides in fewer parks and you can walk between them, plus better weather

It's kind of a tossup. Disneyland has more attractions in a smaller space and better versions of some attractions (PoTC primarily) but Walt Disney World succeeds in extending past just a "Theme Park" and into "Resort" territory. I love going to Magic Kingdom and Epcot but I also like playing miniature golf at Winter Summerland, going to the Water Parks, and exploring the various resorts as well.

Asking me to pick a preference between the two would be impossible.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

1. Thank god Toontown is saved. Theres were rumours that it was the area to be chopped down for Star Wars land.
2. While the behind part of Big Thunder Mountain is underused, and closing permanently will not touch any fan favourites, putting a Star Wars land so near Frontierland and Rivers of America, instead of getting rid of Autopia to fit the land there, were it would benefit of the Tomorrowland theming, and not only that, but theres already Star Tours in there, its fucking baffling and a terrible decission.

Also is fucking pathetic that Universal is so fast making this amazing rides and attractions, while Disney has all this properies and are slow as hell to use them in a good way. Its not going to change, but still I really hope one year Universal kicks up their ass in visitor number, or at least comes near it, so they can move their asses faster.

Why Nintendo chose to partner with Universal and not Disney is something I will never understand

For one, they will actually build something quality in the next 5 years instead of waiting 15.
I would love a Nintendo mashup in a disney park, it would be amazing, but right now Disney is slow as hell.

 

[see5harp]

It's kind of a tossup. Disneyland has more attractions in a smaller space and better versions of some attractions (PoTC primarily) but Walt Disney World succeeds in extending past just a "Theme Park" and into "Resort" territory. I love going to Magic Kingdom and Epcot but I also like playing miniature golf at Winter Summerland, going to the Water Parks, and exploring the various resorts as well.

Asking me to pick a preference between the two would be impossible.

Agreed. I suppose if I lived in So Cal, I'd have no problem stopping by Disneyland for a half day at the park and would be just fine with it. But if I'm planning a family vacation for a week or so, Orlando is obviously the best place to go. I loved Epcot as a kid and would love to go back as an adult. I loved Typhoon Lagoon (not sure if it's still a thing there). Just more parks in the area. Universal Hollywood, and Knotts Berry Farm aren't must see places IMO.

 

[muteki]

1. Thank god Toontown is saved. Theres were rumours that it was the area to be chopped down for Star Wars land.
2. While the behind part of Big Thunder Mountain is underused, and closing permanently will not touch any fan favourites, putting a Star Wars land so near Frontierland and Rivers of America, instead of getting rid of Autopia to fit the land there, were it would benefit of the Tomorrowland theming, and not only that, but theres already Star Tours in there, its fucking baffling and a terrible decission.

Also is fucking pathetic that Universal is so fast making this amazing rides and attractions, while Disney has all this properies and are slow as hell to use them in a good way. Its not going to change, but still I really hope one year Universal kicks up their ass in visitor number, or at least comes near it, so they can move their asses faster.

It's not too difficult to imagine how parts of the SW universe would transition well with Frontierland. Jakku, Tatooine, or any of the more remote areas. They aren't just going to plop down the Death Star or Coruscant next to Big Thunder.

The released promo art (no idea if this is for DL/DHS/both) looks more like Maz's place. Given Iger's history and the success of the first film, I expect the expansion to be mostly new trilogy stuff.

 

[Skunkers]

You're right. I'm more *hoping* something will put a dent into Disneyland, especially after the last ticket price hike. It would be great to see them lower those prices again, but that probably won't happen.

Do you think attendance will dip at all even with 14% of the park closed?

I'm an East Coaster, so I'm not the expert on Disneyland. My gut feeling says no though for a few reasons: Typically the unwashed masses don't pay much attention to what's closed until they get there. That 14% figure is also a bit embellished apparently, since it sounds like a lot of walk-in stuff is being closed. Also, I remember back in the mid-90's when WDW's Tomorrowland was being remade; I would say that was more like 20%+ of the Magic Kingdom was closed and it didn't have much effect, again because most people don't pay attention until it's too late and they are on-property.

On the other hand, my understanding has been that Disneyland has always attracted a much more local demographic as compared to WDW, so people may be a bit better informed. Like I said, I'm not an expert on Anaheim. People are a bit better connected nowadays in general than during my Tomorrowland example though, so who knows. My experience tells me no, though, or at least that it probably won't be that big a dip if there is one.

 

[mm04]

Gonna try to walk up and get one last Thunder Ranch BBQ meal in next week. There's nothing available via reservation at this point. Hopefully middle of the week will be enough for me to squeeze in there and get my grub on.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

It's not too difficult to imagine how parts of the SW universe would transition well with Frontierland. Jakku, Tatooine, or any of the more remote areas. They aren't just going to plop down the Death Star or Coruscant next to Big Thunder.

The released promo art (no idea if this is for DL/DHS/both) looks more like Maz's place. Given Iger's history and the success of the first film, I expect the expansion to be mostly new trilogy stuff.

I still think it benefits more of Tomorrowland theming that western theming (funny because Star Wars is like a western in space). Its also a little bit strange that they have Star Tours outside of the Star wars land.
Yes, creating Takodana or Jakku works better for a better transition of Frontierland (I even thing Takodana would even feel better near adventureland), but its not the perfect quality transition for a park like original Disneyland.
I also dont like the idea of creating a whole land for a franchise in Disneyland, as even Star Tours and Indie were iside their respective themings (tomorrowland and adventure land). Getting rid of Autopia to build a Star Wars mini land inside of Tomorrowland would have been the best option in the mind of park history and theming.

Im not a Disneyland puritan, I have ideas that i think would be amazing for the park that most hardcore fans would hate, like changing Innoventions building into a new Carrousel of Progress but brought by Stark Industries and starting like the old ride, and then going with Iron Man saving the day, but this type of Star Wars expansion rubs me the wrong way.