John Kowalski
Banned
they never mention me =(
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Anita Sarkeesian: 'What I Couldn't Say'
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they never mention me =(
You have a kawaii icon, friend. <3
Extra Sauce
Member
Dat Neogaf drama in the comments.
He did for a while. They're back on now.
KingJ2002
Member
That's where it has seemed to have been left off. I never understood the reason why people feel the need to try and kill or threaten to kill her. She has her opinion on the state of video games and how they portray women... but there's millions of opinions out in the world.... Those opinion do not effect an industry that is dictated by dollars.
If a change is to occur it can only be done with a sale... anything outside of that is just noise.
Now as far as some gamers themselves and their misogyny... the internet allows for people to truly express how they feel without repercussion thanks to it's anonymity... people see this as a bad thing but i think it's truly necessary as the world has forced people to become so politically correct in their responses that they have to rush home to spew as much negativity as possible. All that pent up rage needs an outlet... people may not like it... I personally don't but there's a truth in that... it exists...
and those hate filled comments need some understanding...
because it seems as if no one is really trying to understand both sides to this never-ending story.
When there's criticism of something isn't the natural reaction to do something that reduces said criticism?
Also, isn't calling the poster cowardly and selfish a little harsh and unnecessary?
Dimitri2401
Member
I'm not really sure most of the comments under this Youtube video can be called "discussion"...
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'll have to read through a few on my downtime.
goldenpp72
Member
I don't like her videos, but the people harassing her should be punished.
Even if you were close, the response to Anita/co. is disproportionate. Do you think that being angry at a woman pointing out gender imbalances in video games really merits death threats? I think that a lot of people on the anti-GG side are distasteful and game journalism is corrupt, but death threats, really? Are these people so threatened by gaming becoming inclusive that they needed to lose their minds?
For your first and second points, the problem is that major games are marketed to a certain demographic, and they are tailored to that demographic almost-exclusively. I have daughters. Do you know how hard it is to find games that are female-positive or even neutral? Video games are not being made for women, for ethnic minorities, and until recently not for LGBT.
For your third point, I don't think the major waves of donations came before this whole thing went off.
Four through seven, you're not too far off the mark, but like I said, the response is out of scale with the issue at hand. It's clearly an attempt by the boy's club of gamers to intimidate and shout down those who argue gaming should be broader and more inclusive. Instead of sticking to the issues, and both sides have points, it's insanity and threats. Yuck.
It is a disgrace she has to endure it. It is a disgrace that ANYONE has to endure this.
And seriously: fuck tearing her argument apart and latching onto her like that was some justification for harassment. Normal human beings do not start to harass a reviewer where a score is given that is not in harmony with your personal views. People do not do this to each other.
To have the nerve to directly contact someone you hate...a "brave" new world indeed. I would never listen to lots of musician's "music", but I would never directly contact them to tell them this. Why would I? Unfathomable.
Sooner or later the time will come when just standing aside in heated debates is not going to be enough. If you are on sanity's side, you do not endure what is being done with these personal attacks.
And seriously: fuck tearing her argument apart and latching onto her like that was some justification for harassment. Normal human beings do not start to harass a reviewer where a score is given that is not in harmony with your personal views. People do not do this to each other.
To have the nerve to directly contact someone you hate...a "brave" new world indeed. I would never listen to lots of musician's "music", but I would never directly contact them to tell them this. Why would I? Unfathomable.
Sooner or later the time will come when just standing aside in heated debates is not going to be enough. If you are on sanity's side, you do not endure what is being done with these personal attacks.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
True, but a slippery slope is more then just that. It's a argument that doing A leads to not just b, but c, d, e, f, g, h, i, etc, often to absurd lengths.
Dice//
Banned
She seems to be doing her rounds as far as press junctions or university visits seem to go. Her videos speak enough, I think it's the ongoing discussion and these sorts of videos like in the OP that helps.
I still hope to god that at least some of the people left don't necessarily believe what they're saying. I've been participating on 4chan since 2005-2006 and I've met, some in real life, many well rounded and likeable people who participate in the anything goes, irreverent nature of the site. In fact, I live with one right now who i've known since '08. That being said, there's an often-repeated phrase on 4chan itself - 'Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.'
I like to think that the exodus of Gamergate people from 4chan is proof that all those idiots had arrived en masse before anyone had truly realized their proliferation.
FF Seraphim
Member
Yeah I would think he would leave them on because in the end them making a comment means he is getting a view click which is one way for him to get paid.
I tried to get Anita by watching a video of her's one time. It wasnt anything more than critiquing ladies' portrayal in games.
It wasn't my cup of tea, I didn't feel like she was doing anything horribly eye-opening or ground-breaking for humanity, but it's always good to see people criticize things that they feel misrepresents people. I wasn't into her though and that's fine.
Then "gamergate" happened and I didn't keep up with any of it because the idea that there are enough people hating on her that the whole thing has become a divisive movement is nuts! Like, she has some cool feminist shit to say but she isn't doing anything at all that warrents threatening her life or loins at *all* and all this whole thing has done is martyrize her and at this point she is literally being put into games.
It's nuts that big pouty idiots can fuck with someone so hard they become famous. And I'm glad she's famous at this point: almost no one should go through the shit she has, and she deserves being recognized for pushing though.
It wasn't my cup of tea, I didn't feel like she was doing anything horribly eye-opening or ground-breaking for humanity, but it's always good to see people criticize things that they feel misrepresents people. I wasn't into her though and that's fine.
Then "gamergate" happened and I didn't keep up with any of it because the idea that there are enough people hating on her that the whole thing has become a divisive movement is nuts! Like, she has some cool feminist shit to say but she isn't doing anything at all that warrents threatening her life or loins at *all* and all this whole thing has done is martyrize her and at this point she is literally being put into games.
It's nuts that big pouty idiots can fuck with someone so hard they become famous. And I'm glad she's famous at this point: almost no one should go through the shit she has, and she deserves being recognized for pushing though.
That this is even a thing that is happening is so depressing. Ever since this industry's birth, we've done nothing but fight people who've tried to destroy and marginalize our hobby, being as classy as we could all the while. Now the industry has mainstream acceptance and the old demons are gone, but we're still fighting. We need to stop.
Unfortunately, It seems like the root of this problem is that most people don't understand that criticism is not the same as an attack. This is more of a problem with human psychology in general though, so I wouldn't even know where to start fixing this.
Unfortunately, It seems like the root of this problem is that most people don't understand that criticism is not the same as an attack. This is more of a problem with human psychology in general though, so I wouldn't even know where to start fixing this.
John Kowalski
Banned
but i still think they should all die in a fire =(
oh well that's what i get for being nice
Personally I don't think the belief that criticisms like this leading to slightly more 'socially acceptable' games is a 'slippery slope' argument. It seems more like a natural "cause and effect" argument. The slippery slope argument is when people start saying criticisms against gaming are going to lead to the evaporation of games that have sexualized characters or no violence or other hyperbolic statements.
Slippery slope arguments are by their nature fallacious and are harmful to actual discussion.
And I think a person who can't see things outside the limited scope of their own media-based hobby is selfish, yes.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Yeah I'm sort of curious about this. I don't actually follow piediepie but I sort of check in every once in a while. When he turned off comments he posted a video about and was very direct about how it was because they were so ugly. He was less explicit about reasons when he turned them back on. I guess he hosts his own forum now? So maybe the idea is he interacts with fans on his forum which he controls / moderates / which naturally has fewer accounts than YouTube, then just leaves YouTube comments on to do their own thing?
I like this.
Its...imagine NeoGAF but without mods, but no one has anonymity because it's Facebook and everyone has to use their real name
That is what it's like
Read into that what you will
Beautiful.
geordiemp
Member
I made my point politely and correctly as best I could. No need to look for a fight. I enjoy GAF as I can debate topics, even if they are new to me, without people being insulting. Thank you.
Anita is awesome, and I applaud her for keeping up. She's not the only woman fighting for women's rights, so she could have easily passed the baton if she didn't have the strength she does to carry on.
She's a human being, and not perfect, but what she's attempting to highlight in her series is something I can't believe not everyone can get behind.
I'm not sure I understand the people that say, "Well, I agree with her videos in part," though. I mean, what's there to partially agree with? Either you agree that there is sexism in the industry, or you don't. I don't quite see a "neutral," fence sitting position here.
She's a human being, and not perfect, but what she's attempting to highlight in her series is something I can't believe not everyone can get behind.
I'm not sure I understand the people that say, "Well, I agree with her videos in part," though. I mean, what's there to partially agree with? Either you agree that there is sexism in the industry, or you don't. I don't quite see a "neutral," fence sitting position here.
FF Seraphim
Member
Holy shit you were not joking... people are just so damn angry at NeoGAF its like the forum transformed into Shadow the Hedgehog and took their candy...
paranoidfortean
Member
What a hero. If only these awful men would stop their harassment.
I feel you on most of this. The one wild thing is that those videos literally were eye-opening for some (several? many? certainly enough) game developers though. That's why she got that Ambassador award at GDC last year.
airmangataosenai
Member
The problem with her is that she concentrates exclusively on these sorts of low hanging fruits when addressing criticism of her analysis. It's lousy that the "12 year old on CoD" subset have been giving her so much shit, but why are they worth such focus? They do it largely because of the anonymity provided by Youtube comments and Twitter. What are people looking for the company's which own these services to actually do to curb these comments? Are they to blame for creating the environment in your eyes?
Because the way we discuss it here saying "That's awful" is basically worthless.
Because the way we discuss it here saying "That's awful" is basically worthless.
Interesting thing is lately I've seen a couple of comments from industry people on Twitter say that NeoGAF is starting to feel like a bastion of sanity during all of this. Things are in turmoil everywhere outside of GAF and this makes me so grateful to all the mods here keeping things in check.
I disagree that it's just the "12 year old COD" group that are harassing her behind the anonymity of the internet. I work in the gaming industry, and I see and hear some vile, sexist shit coming from people my age (35), and older.
Not everyone that is harassing Anita is a mouth breathing, pimply faced teenager. Some of them are mouth breathing, pimply faced adults. I think it's an easy out to dismiss her concerns as "welcome to the internet." She's making valid observations about the industry from a woman's perspective and experiences. When my wife worked at Activision with me many years ago, she was also routinely harassed, condescended to, and hit on. She quit and never wanted to work in the gaming industry again because of it. She's still a hardcore gamer, but she has no desire to work in the industry. It's a shame, really.
Not everyone that is harassing Anita is a mouth breathing, pimply faced teenager. Some of them are mouth breathing, pimply faced adults. I think it's an easy out to dismiss her concerns as "welcome to the internet." She's making valid observations about the industry from a woman's perspective and experiences. When my wife worked at Activision with me many years ago, she was also routinely harassed, condescended to, and hit on. She quit and never wanted to work in the gaming industry again because of it. She's still a hardcore gamer, but she has no desire to work in the industry. It's a shame, really.
Fight? Oh please. I challenged your points firmly. You're like that other guy who acted like a martyr for being called out on their fallacious dross.
You say that but how many devs have been supportive of her? The Naughty Dog guys said her work influenced them on TLOU, how many devs have come out and said she's wrong/annoying etc?
The people who hate her are all keyboard warriors or just, I don't even know why people hate her, they think she wants to change their games? Or take them away from them?
It's because they are proud of their aggressive ignorance.
"Hey, don't criticize gamer culture. Death threats are just a part of normal conversation. Don't be so sensitive. No one really means it. I said 'fuck you mom, I hope you die' to my mom last night before I went to the basement to play Destiny for 8 hours, and I didn't mean it."
partyphone
Banned
sexism is the status quo in games. how is it going to ever get better without people criticizing it?
and the big figureheads of gamergate are all grown ass men. this problem is a lot bigger than a few bored teens trying to push the boundaries.
geordiemp
Member
So what is the problem - my point is that for normal AAA games I worry the end game may result in some devs not making the 'knight saving the princess in the tower' or games like TLOU before the 'influence'. OK not greatest example but hope it portrays what I mean.
I 100 % think there are many games that are a million times worse and are more deserving of movement to change them, some of the Japanese school girl game stuff needs to be addressed and is just wrong imo..and the world needs people like Anita to address the big issues....
This should be the focus, not TLOU type games is my point..
Corleth the Fey
Member
Keep up the great work Anita. Thank you for standing up and facing these issues and these imbeciles.
For a little while in the middle of that talk she lost her composure a little and for a moment you could see just how much weight she has to carry on her shoulders.
Fuck the haters. Fuck those gaters.
For a little while in the middle of that talk she lost her composure a little and for a moment you could see just how much weight she has to carry on her shoulders.
Fuck the haters. Fuck those gaters.
ebullientprism
Member
Wonder what the over under is that a lot of those GAF comments on Youtube are from Gaffers who dont want to commit account suicide here. 
airmangataosenai
Member
I'd argue that it really isn't but there's not really much of a way to prove one way or the other how big or small that group really is. Either way no, discussing them really does nothing to shrink their numbers.If that's the strategy we will be talking about this the same way years down the road. "Youtube comments" are so notorious it even gets mentioned in popular music and entertainment. Awareness isn't the issue, at least on this particular topic.
Dominic_Shade
Member
That's the part that got to me. Her strength of will is incredible. Way better than mine.
It's a combination of misunderstanding criticism, and the fact that "gamers'" hobby is tied abnormally strongly to their personal identity. So it's not viewed simply as an attack on gaming, but an attack on their actual personal identity.
I see what you mean but no one is actually restricting or blindly self-censoring art here. It's about being more informed so you can be more aware of what your media does and its responsibility in society. What one chooses to do with that information gleaned from more awareness is at the discretion of the creatives involved, and to be honest, you would probably have no idea they changed something in development unless they told you.
Your worry is mostly unfounded and kind of self-centered.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Not enough.
I have yet to hear from Konami, Sega, Capcom, or Nintendo regarding any of this or GG.
Where's Japan when it comes to critiquing video games and violence/sexism?
FunkyPajamas
Member
Please tell me that was fan made.
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