This sounds like the Divinity 2 thing. That happened.
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Anita Sarkeesian: 'What I Couldn't Say'
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This sounds like the Divinity 2 thing. That happened.
mentallyinept
Banned
Now this is an interesting point.
You are basically saying that the business practices of the industry have caused the gaming audience to shift toward the assholes of society.
That would make for a really cool research project.
I'm not going to get into it, but just to begin, portraying what Sarkeesian is attempting to do with the Tropes series as a "Fuck You" to the games industry is misguided beyond belief.
There may be something to that, as publishers stop being run by developers, programmers and designers and started being run by packaged goods gurus.
You did a pretty shit job in asking though. I thought you were referencing something that happened 8 months ago.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Oh way to flip the... ???
I'm saying there is a discussion that's not being had while people shout back and fourth over how the the group that's not them needs to stop talking. Are the people in that YT comments section in any way right? No.
However, the argument that we should take away their media to brainwash them into compliance with more soothing media is absurd. It wont' work because their reasons for acting the way they do aren't actually moored in playing CoD or listening to Howard Stern or whatever you think is driving them.
Sorry, but this traces straight to basic human nature. You can't turn the ship without a til. The underlying causes have to be addressed or this will never recover.
Superficial measures that doesn't really fix stuff and reinforces the paranoia of the people making the filth comments. Ok. That'll work.
Unless you think that everything criticized in those videos is the HEART AND SOUL OF THE MEDIUM.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Well, you seem to think that constructive criticism is a "Fuck You."
What does SJW stand for?
if you have any links you just happened to innocently stumble across without meaning to and would like me to verify them go ahead and post a few
Bye bye!
The way you presented your "timeline" clearly shows a bias towards certain viewpoints. It's obvious you're not coming into this with an open mind, and your asking for a simplistic summary indicates that you're unwilling to do the proper research into the topic. Hence why most people are dismissing you off hand.
How is bashing zeroyazi helping with the conversation?
The products are marketed and produced in a certain way, yes. However, people like Anita are criticizing them and trying to ask for change to make things more inclusive. Also, things should not be marketed and produced in a way that exploits another demographic.
The products are marketed and produced in a certain way, yes. However, people like Anita are criticizing them and trying to ask for change to make things more inclusive. Also, things should not be marketed and produced in a way that exploits another demographic.
Coffee Dog
Banned
it's okay, but there's a lot of people who come into these threads using the old "I'M JUST A GUY ASKING QUESTIONS" defense, and it gets hard to tell between who is being genuine and sincere, especially when the language is semi loaded ("fuck you"s and whatnot)
jim-jam bongs
Member
Online you say? How is 8chan these days? Still rife with child pornography?
1. Since when did the exhaustively target audiences.
2. They get offended when no product fits what they would want.
3. She took donations from supporters and said fuck you do harassers.
4. Never heard of class action before?
5. All parties need to look at their own actions, and attempt to move past the action of others. Two wrongs don't make a right. They have a right to feel upset.
6. It's not so uncommon. She's run up and down the gamut of trying to make her point. Harassers deserve no less than that. It's obviously not a fuck you to everyone.
7. Why can she Anita and supporters no longer be victims?
Look she's made some mistakes. She's upset people. It is by no means okay to lash out in the way that people do. Even as people are joking she has no way. Why even joke about death threats. People obviously want to get under her skin.
They hardly care about contributing to the discussion and moving it forward. They would rather see her burn with her mistakes than overcome it with her at a higher level with her.
So you're pretty damn wrong.
To clarify, group, you could say "feminists" I was trying to boil it down to the most simple terms without conjuring hate for one side or the other based on titles or labels.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
No, because if you actually cared you would do so yourself.
And just in case you are ignorant to what the "JAQ-off" part meant it is a person who engages in "Just Asking Questions". A commonly used tactic by scummy Internet people to hide outlandish and completely fabricated accusations behind the facade of genuine curiosity.
I think you're deeply misinformed about the situation.
This has nothing to do with "consumers and industry figures don't like you". This doesn't even begin to describe it.
We're not talking about people sending angry e-mails at Phil Harrisson because he wore a Battletoads shirt without announcing a remake.
We're not talking about a stupid politician receiving a bunch of angry tweets the night after saying something stupid about games on Fox News.
Look at this : http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter
Everyday like this for 3 years.
+ not being able to go out due to actual death threats.
This is way beyond any consideration of what she has to say or what she has said about games and the games industry. No one should have to live like this.
what does any of that have to do with anita sarkeesian being forced to restructure her entire life in order to deal with sociopaths threatening her every day?
Well maybe counterpoints to his list have been raised before. But drive-by posts don't help a proper discussion. I wonder if anyone here can argue each point the guy listed?
And doing so is not a "fuck you" towards the industry.
sensui-tomo
Member
SJW means social justice warrior, I think its something like white knighting(?) but for basically making all things politically correct.. Its hard to keep up with bs all the time.
"Social justice warrior"
Once used to refer to people who got carried away in their activism for good causes, now a meaningless pejorative label applied to anyone whose politics are even remotely progressive.
Bonus: This term was largely pioneered by some weirdo who thinks that racism literally does not exist.
Why should anyone be obligated to argue against some guy's simply misguided and totally innocent Just Asking Questions nonsense?
Snarfington
Member
There's a Gamergate guy in my class. I study at a pretty well-ranked university. Doing Mathematics.
I don't understand how someone intelligent and well-educated can be so disgustingly prejudiced.
BumblebeeCody
Member
All she did was make videos talking about her personal beef with games.
IAmRandom31
Banned
That is not relegated to just our hobby though. Look at the comment section of practically anything and you'll see some horrible shit most of the time.
Sports, music, movies, whatever. The internet is freedom of expression without consequence. If there was consequence, or you were forced to disclose who you were or something like that, doubt you would see the sort of comments you do ( and no, that would be horrible and not advocating it ). But, it is what it is.
Thanks for explaining my missteps without the name calling.
Coffee Dog
Banned
There aren't mass harassment campaigns against female directors, writers, musicians, etc, though. That's what makes it different.
Non-overlapping magisteria
jim-jam bongs
Member
The burden of proof would be on the person presenting the argument, that's how it works outside fuckstick academy. If they can support each of their points with facts and evidence, I'll gladly demolish them.
mentallyinept
Banned
Exactly.
It would be interesting to find out if there is there a correlation between the gamer gate attitudes and people either ignorant or open supporters of newer gaming industry practices.
My gut says no, but I would be interested in the results of such a study/survey.
Because I prefer different opinions than a giant hivemind? It makes this board more interesting rather than everyone with the same opinions with a slightly different thought or two
But what about the sea lions, Marcel? They just want a polite and civil discussion. Why must you be so mean to our dear friends in the Otariidae family? What have sea lions ever done to you?
P.S. you are being uncivil and cruel if you do not give a clear, dispassionate answer to every single question in this post.
geordiemp
Member
I totally agree with her about the hate and despicable stuff on social media. Actually I would prefer she made that the prime drive and message in her media.
To me the problem is social media, and any #prominent' person with such views on any topic (not just games) on you tube would get hate, wrongly but its the evil part of social media today.
What I don't really want is over the top 'political correctness' in games because of 'social pressures' on developers and content creators which does worry me a little.
What is the end game here..............?
To me the problem is social media, and any #prominent' person with such views on any topic (not just games) on you tube would get hate, wrongly but its the evil part of social media today.
What I don't really want is over the top 'political correctness' in games because of 'social pressures' on developers and content creators which does worry me a little.
What is the end game here..............?
i guarantee you that you know a disturbingly large number of people who think STEM is the only worthwhile area of study and women just don't want to have well-paid jobs in engineering
Oh, I thought it was just a hip way to call someone a jack-off.
not_so_special
Banned
well its not that simple..she doesnt make he videos alone..her partner its a bit "extreme" for my tastes
1. anita made a super entry level feminism 101 video criticizing portrayal of women in videogames (not necessarily a bad thing, entry level doesn't mean bad)
2. people take what would be a regular, everyday internet post about women in * form of media as a personal insult because it's videogames, not movies and videogames are the last bastion of masculinity in a world where emasculated sissy boys are the status quo and the real he-man is an endangered species
3. escalation, trolls on all sides, people from various websites intentionally spreading misinformation about these angry people and about anita/etc basically siphoning a bunch of really gullible/stupid/willfully ignorant people into believing falsehoods through sheer volume and repetition
4. groups of people who would normally never give a shit about internet feminists making a youtube video see an opportunity for profit and viewers, even more groups of people who see an opportunity to make a shitload of people mad join in, various fractured corners of the internet such as supposed MRAs, republicans, libertarians, conspiracy theorists etc etc join under the banner of #gamergate because this whole thing is a catalyst that proves women are trying to cut everyone's balls off and turn the world into a hellish postapocalyptic matriarchy where everyone must be fed feelings pills and kick dirt at the new 'male subhuman'.
Did I miss anything? I don't really follow this shit much anymore, but I was there for its inception
Anton Sugar
Member
Genuinely curious what your sources are if THAT list is what you came up with after doing some research.
This is why everyone with a different opinion shouldn't automatically get perma-banned after one post. If I only heard about Gamergate through places like Reddit, then I would think that it was an issue unrelated to misogyny. It's better to debate those with different opinions then to just silence them. Who knows, you might convince them to change their stance on the issue.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Tropes vs Women isn't a "fuck you" to the gaming industry, it's a youtube video series that explores the portrayal of women in movies, games, and general pop culture. It existed for years before it got on Kickstarter (2009-2012), and it was only when the subject turned to games that the death threats started rolling in.
If you can show me in a video where Anita said "fuck this shit and fuck all of you" to the entire industry, I'm all ears (and eyes). If saying "Game X promotes negative stereotypes of women" is equivalent to "fuck you", I really don't know what to say.
She then received constant harassment, death threats, rape threats, and doxxing attempts. This is the "lash back" in your step 5, and is never appropriate in public discourse at any level.
Step 6 is just baffling - if you'd actually watched the video, she explicitly points out it's the thing that she couldn't say to her detractors, as she was trying to be the better person. But she has now realized that people who would latch on and poke fun at any emotional reaction that people give to their harassers are also part of the problem of stymieing women in society.
Step 7 - who else could possibly be seen as a victim here? Who else is having their life changed, day in and day out, by Anita Sarkeesian blowing up their twitter and email and home phone?
I really hope this was a sarcastic post, because it's only possible to see #GG as victims if you're this blatantly dishonest when framing the discussion.
And honestly, don't do this. "Just asking questions" when it's clear you already have a frame of reference and an opinion on the discussion is just condescending and transparent.
I went to the foundation of his timeline to show where his viewpoint was skewed. Maybe if he can understand where things went wrong and why they are wrong he might be enlightened on a subject that has been extremely difficult to follow and understand (how many threads were there on Gaf over this...with people still not understanding it all?).
I don't see showing people in an "ignorant/lazy" corner and piling up on them will help with the conversation. It really comes off like people are ban hungry and grave dancing instead of trying to start a conversation.
Obviously for some, but evidently not for everyone.
nrvalleytime
Member
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Accounts are getting banned so we're already miles ahead of Youtube comments.
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