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[Kuro]

Slavery was outlawed in the British Empire in 1833.

He's saying there would be black people in England because of the previous slave trade.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Given the premise of the background of the protagonists, I have no idea why you'd think that.

I don't know anything about their back stories, I'm talking about historical realism

And werewolves

The whole "historical realism" in games thing is just weird anyway. Some devs just don't think about certain groups of people but don't want to say as much.

He's saying there would be black people in England because of the previous slave trade.

Exactly, the ones already in the country didn't just disappear.

Unless the lycanthropes got them...by jove

 

[Bad_Boy]

Hmm... 100 years prior to the setting as well.

 

[Warm Machine]

Anything during with England and the British empire could feasibly have a multi racial cast.

 

[Pau]

Some people's fantasy is a world with people that only look like them

They want their history to look like that too. Or they're taught that it does.

 

[Lime]

This is also a really relevant resource: http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/

And this particular article talks a bit about this defense of the status quo in fantasy fiction/simulations:

We find meaning through popular culture. It is a space where identities are negotiated and a society's values and beliefs are reinforced--as well as being subverted and challenged. Ultimately, popular culture is a projection of a society's collective subconscious.

As I have discussed here and elsewhere on numerous occasions--and with no small amount of controversy on the part of those who disagree with a basic thesis--popular culture is a space where political values and dominant norms around race, class, gender, and sexual are both reinforced and reproduced.

Popular culture is not "just" a fun distraction. Its power lies in the ability of individuals to dismiss it as "harmless", when in fact, popular culture is one of the dominant means through which individuals are socialized into a set of cultural and social values.

For example, The Walking Dead, which returns to television on Sunday night, is not "just" about zombies. Rather, the zombie motif is a way of working through anxieties about gender, nationality, freedom, human nature, survival, race, consumerism, faith, and other issues.

The HBO mini-series True Detective is a meditation on the place of religion in a nihilistic world, and where the story is set against the crippling poverty of rural New Orleans. Of note, careful viewers of True Detective have likely noticed how African-Americans are both invisible and hyper-visible in the story through the use of flashbacks as a narrative device.

I am particularly fascinated by how questions of race and representation remain present even in those spaces where individuals are seeking escape through popular culture and finding pleasure in creating alternate lives through traditional pen and paper role-playing games, having adventures in video games, engaging in speculative exercises of the imagination through literature and other media, or attending events such as The World Science Fiction Convention.

Discussions of how race and gender still "matter" in those "fun" and ostensibly "neutral" spaces are very impassioned. Why? Those spaces are "their" spaces. And how dare "you" bring "your" issues into "their" world.[

White Supremacy and white privilege are operative across every aspect of American society. Ironically, fantasy--what should be detached and separate from the "real world"--is one of the spaces where Whiteness is most entrenched as an ideological force.

The fantastical spaces of video games, comic books, role-playing games, conventions, and other mediums/venues are not racially unmarked: there are "White" fantasies, "male" fantasies, and "straight" fantasies which are not universal...although they gain their power through a pretense and appeal to normality.

When the particular nature of a given fantasy is identified, its owners and adherents can become very defensive.

This dynamic is even more pronounced among those who imagine themselves as "outsiders" and somehow separate, if not superior to others, because of their choice in hobbies and interests. Self-described progressives, visionaries, futurists, and free-thinkers can be the most reactionary when confronted about how they too participate in and support systems of white privilege, racism, sexism, classism, and homophobia.

Relative invisibility is one of the most powerful and enduring aspects of white supremacy and Whiteness. This is accomplished through appeals to "common sense" and the language of "everyone" or "it's just normal".

If such assumptions are challenged, and the particular way that the white racial frame operates is exposed (as a myopic and narrow understanding of the world, and not one that is all encompassing and natural) an uncomfortable truth is made visible.

The roles for people of color (and the Other more generally) in White fantasies are limited and circumscribed. There is a defined script for non-whites as viewed through the White Gaze. Those roles are even more pronounced in the realm of fantasy and speculative fiction (both interactive and otherwise). The best works of speculative literature and art, both digital and traditional, subvert and challenge those norms by making them clear and present in the text. The common, those examples of popular culture that are the worst examples of what we can derisively term as "mass culture", simply take Whiteness and White fantasies as a given.

To point. There is a discussion over at Kotaku via the sites The Daily Dot and Medieval People of Color about the "historical accuracy" of an upcoming video game called "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" that would have non-white characters in Medieval and Renaissance era Europe.

The public's cultivated ignorance about the interracial and cross-cultural contacts that typify human history is not surprising. There are Americans who still believe that Gone with the Wind is a documentary film. Undoubtedly, there are likely many more people who think that Rome was a "white" society, that Europeans were the only people to explore the world, and that anyone who was not "white" was sitting around waiting to be "discovered".

Eurocentrism has a crippling effect on a person's cognitive and intellectual abilities. It magnifies one's sense of security and importance. Eurocentrism does this through compelling lies that distort reality and the historical record.

Video games are not immune from the alluring intoxication of Eurocentrism. Video games are a powerful tool for political socialization. Those mediated fantastical realities are sites for teaching about history. There are "technologies" of race. Historically, these have included the printing press, "science", radio, and other types of mass media. Digital media is part of that trajectory: video games will reflect the complex tensions within a multiracial democracy, one that is very racially and class segregated on a day-to-day basis, with a self-consciously "integrated" popular culture, in a neoliberal moment, and where globalization is the norm.

Video games and other online digital media will be spaces for the macro and micro level aggressions known as cyber-racism. This is a mirror for America's (and the West's) public anti-racist turn after the civil rights moment and the end of World War 2. In the United States, formal White supremacy retreated to private spaces, and now hides behind "colorblindness" while marching under the banner of movement conservatism and the White Right in the United States. Anti-racism is a public norm. Yet, American society remains steeped in systems which sustain and support white race and class privilege.

The Age of Obama is a mixed, dynamic, and contradictory space for matters of racial justice and progress. Video games are reflections of that fact.

My hope is that the fantasies and adventures which we can live out through video games and other digital media can be more hopeful, forward, thinking, and radical than the present day "real world". Speculative texts should be a place for dreaming. The challenge for those who are racially privileged is to divorce themselves from a taken for granted assumption that their fantasies, and the worlds they inhabit, are necessarily those of others.

 

[Afrodium]

Black people have a long history in Europe for hundreds of years in all classes and areas of life. Having a black protagonist in The Order isn't unbelievable.

This is true, but we both know that the 19th century was not the best time to be black in England. Slavery had just been abolished at the beginning of the century and most black English were treated poorly. The scientific to community at the time, which would be the protagonists of The Order, were crazy racist and we're trying to prove that whites were biologically superior to blacks. Plus, the Order is a secret society, and even today secret societies are pretty much white men (I imagine, I've never been in one).

Again, the only reason I'm arguing this is because The Order:1886 is a sort of "secret history" type tale, such as Assassin's Creed, where the plot of the game is supposed to take place in our Victorian England and the protagonists are part of a secret order facing threats the public does not know about. In the vast majority of fantasy settings these rules don't apply and the creators aren't bound by the social mores of the time they are mimicking.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I'd imagine a black person in The Order would be met with the same reception as

Edit: I wouldn't find the inclusion of non-white people jarring. What I would find a little jarring is, given the time period, if it never developed into anything. You know, maybe another member of The Order harbours some racist feelings and it causes some tension. Would have been interesting, actually.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Hmm... 100 years prior to the setting as well.

Interesting. I guess I stand corrected, then.

 

[The Tofunator]

Isn't The Order supposed to take place in Victorian England? I don't mean fantasy Victorian England, but Victorian England as we know it. I may be wrong, but I thought that the plot of the game was that werewolves and vampires and whatnot exist and always have, and that "The Order" is a secret society that fights these monsters throughout the ages. Because of this, the setting of The Order is Victorian England and it's therefore excusable that everything besides the monsters (which in the cannon of the game exist on the same planet that we live on) reflects the reality of that time. Alternatively, a game like Dishonored features a fantasy setting based on Victorian England but has the freedom to make any changes it wishes because it's not actually Victorian England. This is similar to most fantasy games (Dragon Age, Skyrim) in that they're based on Medieval Europe but aren't actually in Medoeval Europe and don't need to abide by racial divides that existed at the time.

It's not a secret society. The supernatural threats are known to everyone and have heavily altered technological developments in the centuries leading up to 1886. This setting is fantasy England with super technology.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Surprised nobody brought up the Kingdom Come: Deliverance devs vs tumblr thing.

Personally, I just don't care either way. I didn't find Redguards in TES jarring. I didn't find the black characters in Mass Effect or Dragon Age jarring. I loved San Andreas. It's just not something I ever give any thought to when playing a video game.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I saw the sentiment that non-white playable characters in The Order: 1886 would be jarring, yet werewolves and fantasy weapons in the setting (inspired by Victorian London) were okay. This notion pops up occasionally here and I wanted to hear what people thought.

I find it fucking ridiculous seeing people go to such lengths to "prove" why characters' apparent nationalities/skin colors would be out of place while also dismissing all other ridiculous, out of place aspects. Reminds me of seeing people here say jetpacks should never be in GTAV because of the game's realistic tone, yet you can still steal a fighter jet from a military base and park it in front of Franklin's home. Seems like anytime the possibility of having some kind of diversity is mentioned, those people hear it as ordering devs to have diversity in their games.

Can you please show me this so I can frown..?

 

[Hyperzephyrian]

He's saying there would be black people in England because of the previous slave trade.

No, I don't think he was.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I've seen AC Unity brought up in this thread a few times. There is at least one major black character in that game by the way.

 

[Afrodium]

It's not a secret society. The supernatural threats are known to everyone and have heavily altered technological developments in the centuries leading up to 1886. This setting is fantasy England with super technology.

For real? Disregard everything I've said then. If it's alternate history then black people are allowed.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

The game is based on fantasy why does actual history have to do with anything? Is there really no black or playable black people in the game? Thats a severe oversight

 

[jackissocool]

So this is an attack thread. Cool.

You're misrepresenting the argument being presented in The Order thread. I would encourage people to go read it to see what is actually being said. Accusations of racism are pretty ridiculous. It's an argument against tokenism, not diversity. I hope race shows up in The Order, because it would definitely fit with the class conflict theme they're talking about. But non-white people wouldn't fit as protagonists in the story being told, unless the core team switches sides from the royalty to the people (I definitely think Lafayette will do this). Part of the story of the Order itself is that it is an old, oppressive group with backwards traditions. They are not the kind to welcome in minorities.

 

[freddy]

No.

 

[injurai]

If it's historical fiction I think then you can certainly stay true to the time on any grounds. That is to say their is no obligation to bend the fantasy to reach some pc ideal.

But if all you get are historical fantasy servicing a single demographic or exhibit willful ignorance that denies historical accuracy then yeah that would be suspect.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

What makes a character a token though? I mean does there need to be more than one person of color in the game, for them not be tokens?

I guess when I think token I think stereotypes and lazy character tropes. The inclusion of a black character in the game, even with the "alternative history" bend could make for a compelling peak into the racial prejudices of the era. I think ignoring those issues would descend into tokenism. Class and race conflict were a real thing that can't be ignored in a title in the Victorian Era.

 

[Zaventem]

I can see why seeing as how most things are whitewashed so any other realistic human skin color in those times the game is based on (Victorian setting for the order) are usually relegated to some slave or tribal character and it's constantly repeated through media sadly. As a black guy, it caught me off guard that pokemon x and y had so many darker skinned people because I wasn't used to seeing that kind of representation, even if the characters are throw way npcs. Then I remembered the game was set in france but even then lots of media like to pretend France is made up of 99% white people. So in a way it was jarring but only for a little while, it may be a terrible thing to say but it's true.

 

[SkyOdin]

If you're making a game that uses cultural or mythological elements from a certain society, I think it could be jarring. It's all about context. For example, a game set in a fantasy version of ancient Egypt would be bizarre if there were suddenly ethnic Chinese people there (unless it was a part of the story).
In the case of The Order, no, I don't think having dark-skinned people is jarring. There were people of color in early-industrial England, after all.

The problem with the "historical accuracy" argument is that most people tend to be very unfamiliar with historical cultures in general, let alone non-western ones. Popular fantasy has no basis in historical accuracy in the first place, and a very large result of that lack of accuracy is a very inaccurate portrayal of race and ethnicity in history.

For example, in the Matter of France, the body of medieval literature and legend relating to Charlemagne and his twelve knights known as the Paladins or Twelve Peers, one of these twelve Paladins was Fierabras: originally a Muslim warrior from North Africa who converted to Christianity and joined Charlemagne. The writers of the stories he was in probably envisioned him as black. So there is some very big precedent to have a black-skinned knight from North Africa serving as a Paladin in the court of Charlemagne in fictional France, with this precedent dating back to the actual Middle Ages.

As for the Chinese appearing in ancient Egypt as per your example, it might not be as crazy as you think depending on your definition of "ancient". In the 8th century, the Tang dynasty was very active in trade. At the time, they went as far as sending trade ships out as far as East Africa in a bid to cut out the Arab and Persian middle-men. Now, the 8th century is generally described as Early Medieval era in the West, but the Tang dynasty is often rolled into descriptions of "ancient China", so it is a bit of a toss-up.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'll also be expecting all of the characters in the game to be extremely well written; otherwise they're just tokens

So this is an attack thread. Cool.

You're misrepresenting the argument being presented in The Order thread. I would encourage people to go read it to see what is actually being said. Accusations of racism are pretty ridiculous. It's an argument against tokenism, not diversity. I hope race shows up in The Order, because it would definitely fit with the class conflict theme they're talking about. But non-white people wouldn't fit as protagonists in the story being told, unless the core team switches sides from the royalty to the people (I definitely think Lafayette will do this).

It's not an attack thread, it's a thread wondering why the existence of non-white characters has to be justified with historical accuracy or writing that exceeds the quality of most triple-A fare when you have people fighting werewolves and dragons and shit

 

[ConceptX]

I'd rather diversity be tied to the setting/story rather than diversity for the sake of diversity personally.

But when it comes to it, in games, I don't really care either way as an issue.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The game is based on fantasy why does actual history have to do with anything? Is there really no black or playable black people in the game? Thats a severe oversight

There's only one playable character in the game and we don't know what the majority of the NPC's look like since most of that hasn't been shown.

 

[Alienous]

Hmm... 100 years prior to the setting as well.

So we're absolutely sure that not a single black person turns up in The Order: 1886? Or is this directed at the protagonists all being white? Just because it's feasible that you could have a non-white protagonist doesn't mean it should be necessary.

I guess this will just become a criticism of all games that don't feature a racially or sexually diverse line-up of story protagonists, regardless of context, as we go forward?

 

[ExoSoul]

Just because there's wild beasts about doesn't mean the social structure of the time would be any different. This applies to women as well.

 

[GothPunk]

Black people have a long history in Europe for hundreds of years in all classes and areas of life. Having a black protagonist in The Order isn't unbelievable.

Exactly, once you realise that European and American history has been white-washed, only seeing white characters in a game is actually what's jarring to me.

And even if that wasn't true, as we're talking about a fantasy setting the creators have poetic license.

As other posters have said, if the setting of the game does reference racism and bigotry, this can actually make for a very interesting narrative in game - which is why I'm playing as a Qunari mage in Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

[Afrodium]

I can see why seeing as how most things are whitewashed so any other realistic human skin color in those times the game is based on (Victorian setting for the order) are usually relegated to some slave or tribal character and it's constantly repeated through media sadly. As a black guy, it caught me off guard that pokemon x and y had so many darker skinned people because I wasn't used to seeing that kind of representation, even if the characters are throw way npcs. Then I remembered the game was set in france but even then lots of media like to pretend France is made up of 99% white people. So in a way it was jarring but only for a little while, it may be a terrible thing to say but it's true.

Don't feel terrible about saying it. Realizing that it was odd to you and then realizing how fucked up it is that it was odd to you is way better than pretending it didn't affect you at all.

 

[jackissocool]

I guess when I think token I think stereotypes and lazy character tropes. The inclusion of a black character in the game, even with the "alternative history" bend could make for a compelling peak into the racial prejudices of the era. I think ignoring those issues would descend into tokenism. Class and race conflict were a real thing that can't be ignored in a title in the Victorian Era.

We know class conflict is a major plot point in this game. You play as the rich bad guys. I hope they tie race into that.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

For real? Disregard everything I've said then. If it's alternate history then black people are allowed.

Even if it's alternative history, it shouldn't throw out the racial issues of the Victorian Era and create some hunky-dory version where race and class conflict didn't exist.

We know class conflict is a major plot point in this game. You play as the rich bad guys. I hope they tie race into that.

Not tying race into it would be a major loss opportunity actually. I really hope they managed to weave it in.

 

[loaf of bread]

Its a videogame. If its blatantly racist thats one thing but I could honestly care less about debating all these social issues in virtual worlds.

 

[Kater]

Nope. I play a dark-skinned Elf in Shadowrun Returns and it's hampering my experience, my immersion, not at all.

 

[Lime]

Its a videogame. If its blatantly racist thats one thing but I could honestly care less about debating all these social issues in virtual worlds.

.

For whites, these worlds reinforce the existing themes of normative whiteness by presenting a world that is all white in a way that appears to be natural and unquestioned. For minority players, the message communicated is that there is no place for you in these worlds. To participate, minority players must create a white-looking character, in essence “ passing” for white in a virtual sense (Nakamura and Wirman 2005). Minorities learn that to participate in these virtual worlds, they must “ become” white, an attitude that reflects the privileged position of white Western culture in contemporary society (Rains 1998) but influences how these individuals may act outside of these virtual worlds as well.

 

[Discotheque]

fantasy settings it's fine tbh. it's great when they have their separate regions too like UrbanRats said.

in historical settings it would be weird to see other ethnicities as higher up though (unless it's set in those respective countries). like i don't want to watch Rome and see a Black senator, it would just be jarring.

but shit like Elder Scrolls, The Order or Dragon Age, go nuts with the skin tones.

 

[The Tofunator]

Even if it's alternative history, it shouldn't throw out the racial issues of the Victorian Era and create some hunky-dory version where race and class conflict didn't exist.

Not tying race into it would be a major loss opportunity actually. I really hope they managed to weave it in.

It seems like race conflict will be something explored with the Half-Breeds, which could turn out really bad depending on the execution.

 

[jmood88]

White people can be anything.

Black people must be historically accurate because reasons.

"By Jove, I'll deal with this lycanthrope with my electroaccelerator cannon post haste and-wait, is that a Negroid man? Has someone opened a portal to the dark country of Africa?!"

I'm going to print these out and hang them up in my room.

 

[Afrodium]

Even if it's alternative history, it shouldn't throw out the racial issues of the Victorian Era and create some hunky-dory version where race and class conflict didn't exist.

I don't know man, the "you can change the technology and history but don't touch the racism!" argument doesn't really sit well with me. If the setting is presented as the Victorian England that we read about in history books then fine, there's racism. However, if we're willing to change the entire course of history and have werewolves be a public threat to the point that technology advanced 100 years, then okay, maybe societal values have shifted as well.

 

[Hyperzephyrian]

The problem with the "historical accuracy" argument is that most people tend to be very unfamiliar with historical cultures in general, let alone non-western ones. Popular fantasy has no basis in historical accuracy in the first place, and a very large result of that lack of accuracy is a very inaccurate portrayal of race and ethnicity in history.

It's less about accuracy and more about coherence. Fantasy settings are...fantastical. We expect weird stuff, like zombies or spaceships. But some weird stuff can break your suspension of disbelief; a stock market in Gondor would be weird. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that lots of fantasy (maybe even most of it) is at least partially historically-inspired. Even something bizarre and alien like Morrowind has clear references to the Roman occupation of Judea, for example.

For example, in the Matter of France, the body of medieval literature and legend relating to Charlemagne and his twelve knights known as the Paladins or Twelve Peers, one of these twelve Paladins was Fierabras: originally a Muslim warrior from North Africa who converted to Christianity and joined Charlemagne. The writers of the stories he was in probably envisioned him as black.

More likely he would have been a Moor, and they were light-skinned Africans. But either way, it wouldn't be weird.

As for the Chinese appearing in ancient Egypt as per your example, it might not be as crazy as you think depending on your definition of "ancient". In the 8th century, the Tang dynasty was very active in trade.

I was using "Ancient Egypt" in its academic definition, i.e. the pre-Islamic civilization that existed in Egypt from the 3rd millennium BCE to the 4th century BCE.
It would, however, be very cool to see a game set in 15th century Arabia, when Zheng He's fleet arrived. That must have been quite a strange event for all involved.

 

[Lime]

I'd argue that even if you happen to find a society in actual history that didn't contain visible minorities in regards to skin color (chances are extremely low, just look at medievalpoc), any form of history depicted in a video game is still speculative fiction (or simulation).

 

[jackissocool]

Not tying race into it would be a major loss opportunity actually. I really hope they managed to weave it in.

Agreed. Then this criticism would be totally correct. For what we know now, I think it's misguided and premature.

Its a videogame. If its blatantly racist thats one thing but I could honestly care less about debating all these social issues in virtual worlds.

This is a lazy and dangerous attitude to take. Video games are desperately in need of more diversity. It's easy to ignore if you're not a minority, but for people who are largely ignored by the industry they choose to get their entertainment from, it's enormously disenfranchising. In most games, the assumption from the start is simply that the character is a white male. Anything else would need some specific explanation. That's a serious issue, because it sets the precedent that the default human is a white male. Representation is important, because a lack of representation is just another form of oppression.

 

[Zaventem]

White people can be anything.

Black people must be historically accurate because reasons.

God damn this quote is amazing.

 

[Bad_Boy]

So we're absolutely sure that not a single black person turns up in The Order: 1886? Or is this directed at the protagonists all being white? Just because it's feasible that you could have a non-white protagonist doesn't mean it should be necessary.

I guess this will just become a criticism of all games that don't feature a racially or sexually diverse line-up of story protagonists, regardless of context, as we go forward?

I dont think anyone knows except for the people at rad and sony.

I was just pointing out that black people were around in the times of the same setting. It's a FACT. So when people here say it wouldnt be historically accurate to have non white characters are actually... inaccurate.

It's sad to know it would be jarring to some to see other races. I guess people are so conditioned to it. Thats really unfortunate.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I'd rather diversity be tied to the setting/story rather than diversity for the sake of diversity personally.

But when it comes to it, in games, I don't really care either way as an issue.

lol my favourite part of these threads. we have to make sure to justify the inclusion of any poc!

 

[Alienous]

For whites, these worlds reinforce the existing themes of normative whiteness by presenting a world that is all white in a way that appears to be natural and unquestioned. For minority players, the message communicated is that there is no place for you in these worlds. To participate, minority players must create a white-looking character, in essence “ passing” for white in a virtual sense (Nakamura and Wirman 2005). Minorities learn that to participate in these virtual worlds, they must “ become” white, an attitude that reflects the privileged position of white Western culture in contemporary society (Rains 1998) but influences how these individuals may act outside of these virtual worlds as well.

That certainly goes a long way to make a fairly vague supposition.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I don't know man, the "you can change the technology and history but don't touch the racism!" argument doesn't really sit well with me. If the setting is presented as the Victorian England that we read about in history books then fine, there's racism. However, if we're willing to change the entire course of history and have werewolves be a public threat to the point that technology advanced 100 years, then okay, maybe societal values have shifted as well.

On what basis? Why would you throw the racism out? It's a major part of Victorian England. Why would you not want to explore the issues of that era? Why would you try to whitewash the era's problems? The technology and enemies of the day (werewolves) are changed, fine. It's still set in Victorian England. That must mean something, or else it should have been a game based on Victorian England.

 

[AtomskEater]

I will say regarding mmos or any other game with a character creator that it's increasingly messed up when skin color doesn't go any darker than a tan. I basically like to create an "idealized" version of myself, which usually means someone with a similar build and skin color but with outlandish anime hair and eyes. Sometimes cat ears, if those are an option.

Some of these "I don't mind (playable) POC in games but they can't just be tokens or for diversity quotas" makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Remember, you must be sure to justify why there are non-white characters in your game!

This is also a really relevant resource: http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/

And this particular article talks a bit about this defense of the status quo in fantasy fiction/simulations:

I'm really glad someone posted this. It really opened my eyes to how weird the notion is in that black people were nonexistent/hidden from European society until some magical date in the 1900s.

This is a lazy and dangerous attitude to take. Video games are desperately in need of more diversity. It's easy to ignore if you're not a minority, but for people who are largely ignored by the industry they choose to get their entertainment from, it's enormously disenfranchising. In most games, the assumption from the start is simply that the character is a white male. Anything else would need some specific explanation. That's a serious issue, because it sets the precedent that the default human is a white male. Representation is important, because a lack of representation is just another form of oppression.

Good post.

 

[SkyOdin]

fantasy settings it's fine tbh. it's great when they have their separate regions too like UrbanRats said.

in historical settings it would be weird to see other ethnicities as higher up though (unless it's set in those respective countries). like i don't want to watch Rome and see a Black senator, it would just be jarring.

but shit like Elder Scrolls, The Order or Dragon Age, go nuts with the skin tones.

There was an entire dynasty of black Roman Emperors. The Severan dynasty, founded by Septimus Severan, whose father may have been Libyan.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

On what basis? Why would you throw the racism out? It's a major part of Victorian England. Why would you not want to explore the issues of that era? Why would you try to whitewash the era's problems? The technology and enemies of the day (werewolves) are changed, fine. It's still set in Victorian England. That must mean something, or else it should have been a game based on Victorian England.

Is the game focused on improving or exploring Victorian society, or electrocuting werewolves

 

[jmood88]

So we're absolutely sure that not a single black person turns up in The Order: 1886? Or is this directed at the protagonists all being white? Just because it's feasible that you could have a non-white protagonist doesn't mean it should be necessary.

I guess this will just become a criticism of all games that don't feature a racially or sexually diverse line-up of story protagonists, regardless of context, as we go forward?

My criticism in the Order thread (which started the whole debate) wasn't that there weren't non-white playable protagonists, my issue was with the arguments against the possibility of non-white playable characters existing in that game/universe.