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Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates?
- Thread starter kinggroin
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videogames
Banned
you should actually read my post instead of just looking at the words, brah
Shouta
Member
That's fine as long as you're treating a transgendered individual like they want to be treated outside of not being involved romantically with them.
This post was on the first page (aka 8 pages ago), but it sums up how I feel nicely.
I would not be okay with either dating or have any sort of physical relationship with a girl who used to be a guy. If that means I'm close minded or whatever, fine. But I should still have the choice of whether or not I want to be with a girl who used to be a dude before that happens.
But your theoretical wife was incorrectly assigned her gender according to genetics. Many people like you would argue that she is male, meaning that every person that ever called her female is "changing" her. Sex isn't entirely biological; Gender isn't entirely social. The real answer is that they both are influenced by biology AND socialization, and are both fluid concepts. It's a side effect of how our society likes to imagine that sex and gender are binary when it is much, much more complicated.
Ha, I'm married so I doubt it'll ever happen.
Vermillion
Banned
No, I disagree. Because if that were really true, why would you get your gender changed...?
Shouta
Member
Vermillion
Banned
I have. So which part of my response was incorrect? Please, elucidate.
The Faceless Master
Member
but he could pass for white! well, if he wasn't rich and famous...
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I think, when it comes to things like choosing a mate, a lot of people have a relatively narrow internal definition of gender that doesn't account for plumbing changes. And yes it's a bummer but people can't pick what turns them on or off.
People are obligated to treat everyone with respect but they're not obligated to start or stay in a relationship if they're not comfortable in it. It's not always possible to apply rationality to something that's almost entirely predicated on emotions.
They didn't get their gender changed. They got their sex changed.
So that how you are treated matches how you feel? I can't say that is why everyone does so, but it's what is important to me. Every time I'm explicitly treated like a guy or referred to as one it is a painful or jarring experience. That is because I am not a guy, and the fact that not everyone knows this is an uncomfortable one for me.
EDIT: Anyways, I'm really gone this time, I swear! Take care everyone! I might be back tomorrow, depending on where things go.
Yes, but this isnt about you, its about the connection between two people.
And certain things are hardwired into a persons brain in terms of sexual attraction, which may only be revealed at more intimate times, and could end up hurting both parties significantly.
Its the same reason I disclose the fact that ive dealt with serious depression and psychosis before meeting new people, and it really does a good job of separating who is worth maintaining contact with or not.
Things that society will eat you alive for, are sometimes best left exposed so that you can discern good people from assholes.
Genetic anomalies are not evidence of ill-defined sexuality.
Yeah, and if a fat person believes in being slim and still undergoes a liposuction, that makes no sense.
videogames
Banned
it was satirical
You don't get your gender changed, you get a sex reassignment surgery...
Gender is something you're born with irregardless of what's between your legs... as we learn more about developmental biology(Embryonic development) we are noticing this is a fact...
The sex of the person starts and ends with their reproductive organs & some physical structure...
Vermillion
Banned
So you admit that, at least socially, you are a male?
Or, to be more specific, you are changing your bodys appearance to more accurately reflect the gender you identify as, which canbut not always!include genital surgery.
The Faceless Master
Member
it's not even about telling them. even if you don't say anything, just sending the pic of a hot chick to them can throw up red flags.
"why did he send this pic to me of this hot chick" *starts staring intensely* +only a few options to consider+
Vermillion
Banned
Nope, if a fat person believes he *is* slim. It does not make him any less fat regardless of his state of mind. If I am born believing I am a god, it does not make me any more of a god until I am physically so. If I am born believing I am white, it doesn't make any more so until I am physically that way. Etcetera, ad infinitum.
Thanks for that example, though.
Difference between gender and sex is noted from this point forward. Acknowledging billychu's post, as well.
There are, however, multiple definitions of gender, one of which is societally based.
Vermillion
Banned
If they really were, then they're kind of in bad taste.
This is more accurate and what I meant to say!!
Bed time now for realsies!
EDIT: iirate I feel guilty for all the times (well only on GAF, but still!) I've been mistaken as a girl :/
This is an incredibly trite comparison (but then it kind of fits most of the arguments here!) but what if you really don't want to date someone with black ancestry. A beautiful white girl who has a black grandparent, for instance. By the arguments here, her having a black grandparent would be the 'truth', so not telling you would be holding back on the truth, deception, entrapment, for instance. At what point should she tell any guy (or girl) she's dating that she has a black grandparent?
I read an interesting post on a social justice site about disclosure. If you don't want to date a transperson, it's your responsibility to say that to anyone you're on a date with.
I read an interesting post on a social justice site about disclosure. If you don't want to date a transperson, it's your responsibility to say that to anyone you're on a date with.
He's basically saying in harsh terms that woman does not equal transwoman, which is basically the truth. And it's for that reason that Id also think certain information needs to be disclosed early. The thought of a "transition" for many is too much to get over, and it shouldn't be assumed that people can just handle it
Now are trans insults to men/women? No. But I don't think he was saying that's the case either
Amibguous Cad
Member
All of this is true, but I just don't think people are giving the other side enough credit in figuring how difficult this is.
Again, I dated a guy recently who I had read, initially, as Latino. After a few dates, I learned that he was actually a fair-skinned African American. I really didn't care what his "real" race is, but what if I did? I'm betting at least some people do. What if my sexuality were constructed in such a way that I just can't stand the thought of getting it on with a black guy, and any attraction I had to him vanished once I knew that he was "really" black? Is that just racist animus? Authentic personal sexuality? Both?
Vermillion
Banned
His race has never changed, for one. For two, that's your own thing, I guess.
And for three, I thought race wasn't an appropriate example earlier.
ganbareneopokekun
Member
i would love to see a transgendered man and a transgendered woman dating eachother without knowing
this thread is good and some ppl have some good arguments.. good read
this thread is good and some ppl have some good arguments.. good read
Amibguous Cad
Member
Yeah, you stated your opinion, and you also didn't do a ton to explicate why you felt that race wasn't a valid analogy.
His race never changed, but my perception of it did. He was indistinguishable from a Latino to me at first, and I later learned that he was "really" black, in a pretty similar way that a trans person can be indistinguishable from a "genetic girl" and later someone learns that she's "really" trans. The analogy gets at something previous race-based ones don't: the fact that the revulsion is intellectual and ideological, rather than instinctual and spontaneous. I was attracted to him physically, based on everything I saw, when I thought he was Latino. In our hypothetical, it was only when I learned that he was black, a piece of knowledge that doesn't change his appearance in the slightest, that I got turned off. This mirrors the situation of a trans person who passes well perfectly- our hypothetical straight man was totally attracted to her until he learned a fact that in no way changed her appearance, and all of a sudden found himself uninterested.
This
But if it was pre op i would just avoid there penis and stick with anal.
All in all were all human and labels suck.
edit catching up with the thread lol everyone is tip toeing around each other.
Vermillion
Banned
1) It wasn't me who thought race was a bad analogy (as far as I recall). One of my first examples included race.
2) I said it was your own thing.
3) Your example works better with intersexed, not transsexual. Perception be damned - the person you're with never was anything else.
Race is not a very good analogy, but even if it was, your example is incorrect. The transgendered woman is not actually a guy, that just happens to look like a woman, and you realize it after a few dates (that'd actually be an interesting situation, and not as simple as your race example at all). A transgendered woman is someone that was once a male, and then went through all sorts of various medical procedures and behavioural modifications to become a woman. It's a bit as if a white girl had surgery to make her eyes slanted and accentuate her cheekbones, slighly altered the color of her skin, maybe dyed and flattened her hair, took some some pronunciation classes to get an accent and modified the way she dresses, and then acted in everything as if she was a first generation korean immigrant.
You might say that she always felt like a korean woman, and that this (formerly) white girl is not actively trying to deceive anyone, just live her life the way she wants to without having to explain her choices at every turn. And you'd be right to some extent. But now imagine this girl dating someone, let's say a guy with an asian fetish, and he discovers after months that she was born in a chicken farm in Kansas. Don't you think the guy might have some sort of a reaction? That he'll feel like he's been taken for a ride? He might still want to date this woman, but something will definitely be going on in this relationship, something is going to be different.
Furthermore, the gender issue is more complicated than you make it look. This former white girl turned korean will never be korean in the same way an actual korean person would be. Even if her "koreanness" was perfect it'd still be studied koreanness. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not the exact same thing (and before you tell me that Korean people also have to "study" their own koreanness when they grow up and imitate everyone, the process is still very different). In the same way a transgered woman will certainly become a woman (at the very least from a legal point of view) but her womanhood is not the exact same womanhood as that of a person born female.
scar tissue
Banned
Sounds like a horrible movie featuring Adam Sandler and Martin Lawrence. *shudders*
Edit: I didn't know about the difference transsexual/-gendered.
Anyway, if a tg woman still has a dick and a nutsack, I expect her to tell me at the beginning of the first date. Most certainly before a kiss or anything happens.
If she's post-surgery, I'd say it's okay to say later on. Second or third date maybe.
:lol
shanshan310
Member
We had the same show in Aus: "There's something about Miriam". The Miriam I went to school with got so much flak about it.
To answer your question, not as an opening line, but somewhere between feeling comfortable enough to think they would understand and want date you and actually starting to date, I think it would probably be the right thing to do for both parties involved.
To answer your question, not as an opening line, but somewhere between feeling comfortable enough to think they would understand and want date you and actually starting to date, I think it would probably be the right thing to do for both parties involved.
shanshan310
Member
Am I allowed to step in and say that I, as a woman, consider transwomen to also be regular women? Or are only men allowed to decide which women are real women
people are people are people.
.
If the person thinks they can hide it and still want you to like them they're crazy.
Great article on the subject:
http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=2605
I think this discussion isn't empathising enough with why transpeople might not automatically "disclose their status" or whatever.
http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=2605
I think this discussion isn't empathising enough with why transpeople might not automatically "disclose their status" or whatever.
pretty much
It seems that as awareness increases, so does every man's initial hesitation, despite how attractive the person in question is to them. It seems illogical, but human emotion and all that. I know I can't even begin to explain it.
Would you tell a muslim there is pork in the casserole before or after he eats from it? You know the pork casserole is perfectly fine and tasty as fuck, but you also know that there is a high chance that he will be very upset when he finds out what he ate.
When do you tell him? Before or after?
Snkfanatic
Banned
Yes...he or she should tell their potential mate without a doubt.
That is an unbelievably terrible analogy. 'Hi, my name is James, and I am transgendered, would you like to go to a movie?'. Really?
Relationships should be about trust. Not disclosing who you are goes against this.
I would never ever date a transgendered person.
I'm sorry, but i translated "first date" as an euphemism for "before sex". I was not aware that you meant 'do i have to tell him before we watch that jack and jill movie".
You tell him before sex and before eating the casserole. That's my position. And the analogy still works.
I specifically said 'first date' and 'first 5 minutes'. But of course you tell them before you have sex if they are not already aware. If sex is the casserole I agree with you completely. I was looking at the movie as the casserole.
NEVER EVER!
I realise that now. We are in agreement.
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