So if someone doesn't want to date a guy they are prejudice? Or what if someone doesn't like girls that are overweight are they prejudice too? Because those are groups of people and if you aren't attracted to them its hard to make them your mate like the thread title says.
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Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates?
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So if someone doesn't want to date a guy they are prejudice? Or what if someone doesn't like girls that are overweight are they prejudice too? Because those are groups of people and if you aren't attracted to them its hard to make them your mate like the thread title says.
Vermillion
Banned
I'm personally not attracted to black women (with some exceptions), despite being black myself.
When it comes to things of a sexual nature, people like what they like. Would I be right to call a gay man prejudiced because he is, and I quote: "categorically dismissing an entire group of people"?
No, we don't go there. Sorry, but it's not wrong. People have their sexual preferences and it's what it is.
I'd just like to take time to point out that some men and women (I do not know your personal preference) will be biologically incapable of being particularly intelligent or attractive by your standards. You have eliminated these people as potential partners based on their biological condition.
While I can't speak for the person you're responding to (I know this wasn't in response to me, but I need to go to sleep), I wanted to emphasize again that the inability to bear children isn't absolutely and completely unacceptable to me; very few qualities would fit that "immediate dealbreaker" description. Further, I want to repeat again that I do not know for sure how I would react if a woman I had come to love but had not yet been intimate with revealed that she had been born a man (and that she therefore could not conceive and may or may not have a penis); I've never been in a situation similar to that, and it's such an intense emotional situation that I can't say with confidence what my reaction would be.
I have no interest in dating men. That isn't just a mere "group" of people; that's half the entire population of the world, nearly 3 billion humans. Is that prejudiced? Honest question. I'll read further when I wake up tomorrow morning.
Do you have a problem with straight men dismissing gay men as life partners?
Inflammable Slinky
Member
Okay, attach "sexual orientation aside" to my post and do you see what I'm getting at?
Well, but I think you're getting into another topic therethe question of if you can have children or not. (Which, to be fair, is also a concern with non-trans partners as well.)
My question is more about the response of "she would still genetically be a he". It's an argument brought up on a regular basis, and it's an opinion I don't personally understand (in comparison to some other ones that I do).
Correct me if im wrong, but a vagina created from penis is the only part that they change, and the uterus, cervix etc dont exist and its not self lubricating, nor the same level of sexual climax.
That and having to take hormones for the rest of your life, may be enough reason to put a person off just because its not the same as a woman.
That and having to take hormones for the rest of your life, may be enough reason to put a person off just because its not the same as a woman.
Inflammable Slinky
Member
And, to follow up on my previous points of calling shit out, this is bigotry. You are a bigot. You should feel bad and shut up.
EDIT: Jesus christ it never ends
They are women, you asshole! Nice to know Anonymous Internet Poster knows better then them about their entire fucking gender identity! Sure glad we have someone like you to set us straight, any other groups you'd like to dismiss wholesale?
Dark Octave
Banned
If you are comfortable with being completely open with your sexuality then that's good for you. But being more selective about your sexuality is good as well. You seem to lack the understanding that not everyone can or is wiling to be like you.
For me, it has nothing to do with kids. Michael Jackson was still black despite all his efforts and surgeries to look white. Beef flavored chicken is still chicken and a man who has had surgery to remove his testicles is still a man, imo.
I applaud those who take the extra step to be closer to what they feel and to be happy in life and I'll wholeheartedly support you until the day I die. But for a man to be artificially altered and say he is 100% woman is an insult to my mom, my wife, my daughter and my sisters. You are not as much a woman as they are and you never will be. You are a transwoman, now and for the rest of your life.
No? Sexual preferences aren't black and white. It's not just "Hey, I'm straight and I love all women of all shapes, sizes and personalities.". It's a lot more nuanced than that; we can't even really comprehend just how nuanced it is yet, you reacting purely emotionally bashing people by calling them prejudiced bigots isn't helping.
its a physical difference
its not arguable, and if it is, I already stated to correct me if im wrong, rather than simply exploding with insults.
Personally I think there is a difference between saying "I have no interest in dating men" and suggesting that if you found out the person you were dating was born a man that you'd actively suppress and disregard all your previous attraction and intimacy. Like I said, I don't feel so invested in being gay that I would react badly if I found out I was attracted to a woman or a person who was born female. I think such statements should be guidelines based on experience, not invested identities like some people in this thread seem to have.
So, based purely on the information you gave I would not find your response bigoted but if you took it to the extreme I mentioned I would think there was at least an issue there that was deeper than mere personal preference, though I wouldn't like to call someone bigoted purely off that.
Inflammable Slinky
Member
Thanks Gaborn, this is what I was getting at with my previous point about prejudice. I don't think Opiate and the like are bigoted in their sexual preferences (other people in this thread are though) but I do feel that one cannot merely hide behind "personal sexual preference" without further self reflection
What if I found out the person I'm dating has a penis and cannot bear children? Or that she does have a vagina, but that she is nevertheless significantly physically different from most other women in some way (e.g. that her vagina is very distinctly different from others?)
I do agree with your general point, however, that some people seem to be automatically and intrinsically rejecting the notion of being attracted to a trans person on principle, and would reject a trans woman even if she met all personal criteria that person had for a mate.
Absolutely agreed (Okay, now it's bed time).
stop.using.that.word.
AdventureRacing
Member
That's basically the point i was trying to make. I have eliminated a huge percentage of the population based on things completely out of their control. Ultimately though i'm not trying to be fair or unbiased when choosing a partner. I'm trying to find the one who will make me happiest.
Pro-tip: You don't actually support me at all. Stop claiming you do. For you to disregard my identity completely and utterly shows that you are nothing close to support, you are in fact dangerous to me and my pursuit of happiness.
Vermillion
Banned
Why are we putting sexual orientation aside, though?
The Faceless Master
Member
since we're in full on hyperbole mode, maybe a hat?
but really, nobody is owed any explanation or the assurances of honesty and truthfulness from others. people just have to try and make what they see as the best decision for themselves and deal with whatever happens when it happens.
there is never a good time to deliver news that could upset someone else, there are just varying kinds of bad times.
Why are you deciding someone's gender for them? Do you know what gender means?
Inflammable Slinky
Member
For starters, if people tell you they are women, why don't you listen to them?
Shouta
Member
You don't understand the argument because it doesn't make sense, for the most part.
It comes from sex and gender being the same to people when they aren't the same. I don't think most folks realize that and you can break the logic quickly if they say so. Of course, most folks wouldn't accept their argument being broken and they'll still be waddling around like always.
the title of the thread specifically states "MATES" and not Partners
which is in itself a paradox
Thats just dodging my question entirely
which is in itself a paradox
Thats just dodging my question entirely
Dark Octave
Banned
I'm telling you what I believe. Do you want to decide what I believe for me?
And Lexi, I'm sorry you feel that way about me, but I cannot look at the females in my life and a trans woman and be like "yep, they are the exact same as women". I can't do it.
Nothing was contributed to the conversation here except for personal attacks.
Sorry but how is this not bannable?
Vermillion
Banned
Two things:
1) I would like an answer to my previous question, and
2) What do you consider a woman? What criteria does one have to meet in order to be a woman?
The Faceless Master
Member
i dunno, does she look any more mannish than say... Sandra Bullock? i think it's easier to notice things when you already know. "of course she used to be male, that chin is such an OBVIOUS giveaway", etc... but if you saw her on the street or in a club...
But it IS wrong. There is nothing less "natural" about a trans woman's womanhood.
Except there is no unifying experience that every women shares, cis or trans.
Your talking about what boils down to a physical deformity being corrected; I don't see you calling any cis women less than 100% because of the lack of secondary sex characteristics. You can pay us lip service all you want, but your uneducated beliefs are the same ones that promote the idea of trans people as second-class citizens that is so prevalent in modern day society.
This. Take pictures of any cis women, no matter how attractive, and then tell your straight male friends that they are trans. Most of them will "be able to tell" every damn time.
I'm just being honest. Personally, and I feel like this is a common opinion, women who get plastic surgery are a turn-off because it almost feels like you're being lied to.
Transgendered people are similar, but to a different extreme. That coupled with the...thought? Feeling? Of homosexuality that comes up with it just makes it a double turn-off and pushes it over the edge into "no way" territory.
Idk. This is just my opinion and like I said I feel like it's a common one.
Vermillion
Banned
Natural in terms of genetics, mate. If I were suddenly given super strength, or immortality, it wouldn't be natural, regardless of what I thought.
If I believed Opiate was a woman, you would see nothing wrong with that? When corrected and old he is a man I just would say
Uterus, cervix, etc. are not created, because it would be pointless to do so.
My understanding, however, is that depending on who does the procedure and how you have it done, you can definitely have one that's self-lubricating. As far as same level of sexual climax, that's probably something we can't put an exact answer to. People I've talked to who have transitioned have said that their orgasms are definitely different after hormones, and going to a proper person for SRS will result in a vagina that definitely has sexual sensitivity.
Sex involves a couple not a single person
Im assuming you are referring to variation in sexual stimulation, in which while you are correct, the mean would be quite different.
I cant actually take any information as anything other than anecdotal, until someone has significant proof. I dont expect either the wealthy surgeons or the patients involved to provide unbiased opinion.
Near perfect sex changes are not available to everyone, and until they are, its not useful to use them as the basis for the argument here.
What would you think of a woman you were in a relationship that found out she is intersexed when it's determined that she is infertile? Many people go their entire lives without ever finding out that they are intersexed in some way; you or mostly anyone you know could be, and without the right circumstances or tests, you'd never know.
Now, if genetics are so important to you, I suggest you have any prospective partners tested from now on, just in case.
This is simply delusional. Are you seriously asserting that a non-functional imitation of the female reproductive system should be considered as natural as that of a biological female's?
I was referring to you saying that being a trans woman isn't the same as being a woman, not that there may be differences in genitalia. Having a penis doesn't make a woman any less of one, either.
Nope, just saying that a woman isn't defined by her junk.
Dark Octave
Banned
So I guess Michael Jackson really was white then.
Vermillion
Banned
Just because I'd never know doesn't change my opinion. An example (and I certainly do not think of transgender people so harshly, but it is merely an example) - if my wife whom I loved and trusted went out and cheated on me, but covered her tracks, so I would never know, would that change my opinion? Should I then live my life without trusting anyone because I could be fooled? Certainly not.
Just because one does not know would not change their opinion on the subject.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Yes absolutely
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
True.
The thing is that your gender, and how you came to figuring out what exactly it is, would be directly relevant to your intimate relationships. It influences everything about how you feel about yourself sexually and what you want in a partner, so it is something that you have to eventually explain or at least mention to a person who you're interested in. I guess I shouldn't draw a line in the sand on how long you can wait but it is something you should say as soon as you feel you have a good opportunity.
I wasn't aware race and gender wet comparable. . Probably because it isn't true.
This is the part of the thread where you quietly back out because you have no idea about the concept of gender
Vermillion
Banned
Come now, the questions are free for everyone.
Glorified G
Member
If he looks like a white man, had rhinoplasty surgery, lip augmentation and bleached his skin WHAT KIND OF RACE DO YOU THINK HE HIS?
Shouta
Member
This is kind of the issue here, at least in the US, IMO. Gay is considered bad and having a relationship with someone who was a guy at one point in their life could be considered gay which then becomes a turn-off. It's a societal block that's put into folks by the climate of the country. You can actually tell this because guys will be interested in a transgendered woman until the moment they find out she was a man previously. Then it becomes "but you're a dude!" which is the alarm signal for "I don't want to be gay!" Of course, they aren't actually gay because you know, they're attracted to the female gender and not the female sex.
Let's be fair here, Michael Jackson was actually a Putty Man from Epsilon Omega 6 in the Jackson Cluster of the 5th Galaxy.
PumpkinPie
Banned
Personally I don't care, people are obsessed with labelling everything. If you like someone, you like them. If you don't, you don't. I would be considered heterosexual but I can't say 100% that I wouldn't be interested if a transgender gal came along, who I had an amazing connection with.
Gender is decided by the person owns feelings. Race is purely genetic.
videogames
Banned
First off, I'd like to make a case against Garbaga's acceptance of trans'.
But Garbaga still supports them but does not accept them.
Then the gloves come off:
You do not have a sixth sense about this. Without logic or reason backing people's preference, and not being able distinguish between cis and trans, there is still a desire not to engage in intimate activities.
Okay, not all the way in on the bigotry train, "intimate activities" can mean a couple things. Could be emotional or physical.
Eventually the actual question is addressed:
So what the hell is this shit.
"Natural is better." I'm sorry but no, you don't dismiss people for not being "natural." In fact, that's such an offensive use of the word, insinuating that anyone that is not of the heterosexual orientation is unnatural should be grounds for "Fuck off."
And you know what, if you're accepting of people then it's safe to assume that discrimination shouldn't occur. I mean, if you support gay rights then would you believe that gays should not get married? Or denied jobs based on their identity? Or denied love because of who they are?
Then you wouldn't say this:
Fuck you.
The question "Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates?" operates under the assumption that it can not be identified. Here Garbaga is implying (and later on continuing to imply) a sixth sense in identifying people's genitals.
This is sort of just a continuation of avoiding the actual question. "I'm not attracted to transgenders because I know they're transgender."
But Garbaga still supports them but does not accept them.
Then the gloves come off:
Essentially playing the card that, in an encounter where they had no preconceived notion of a sex change, they are the victim. In fact, they are still not "women" in Garbaga's mind. Despite not being able to distinguish any differences, they are not Garbaga's type.
You do not have a sixth sense about this. Without logic or reason backing people's preference, and not being able distinguish between cis and trans, there is still a desire not to engage in intimate activities.
Okay, not all the way in on the bigotry train, "intimate activities" can mean a couple things. Could be emotional or physical.
Eventually the actual question is addressed:
Without an answer. Let's presume that, to be fair, everything that was a response to the question the first was not the answer to the actual question (because the question is finally being addressed by Garbaga as the question.
So what the hell is this shit.
This is some Don't Ask Don't Tell level of bullshit acceptance.
"Natural is better." I'm sorry but no, you don't dismiss people for not being "natural." In fact, that's such an offensive use of the word, insinuating that anyone that is not of the heterosexual orientation is unnatural should be grounds for "Fuck off."
And you know what, if you're accepting of people then it's safe to assume that discrimination shouldn't occur. I mean, if you support gay rights then would you believe that gays should not get married? Or denied jobs based on their identity? Or denied love because of who they are?
Then you wouldn't say this:
What matters is that it does. Fully supporting someone on their quest for equality only to tell them that their differences matter?
Fuck you.
That makes sense. It isn't necessarily a physical thing, it's mental.
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