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Are you happy with the "visual identity" adopted by modern Final Fantasy?

Every other aspect of the series changes and evolves but for some reason that dinosaur nomura is still around calling the shots with his bullshit prettyboy focus tested mediocrity. It's time for a change

How exactly did this perception that Nomura has any real control over the series come from? He's not in charge of it in any way, with the obvious exception of XV since it's his game. But those other games? Those are from other developers that have specific looks that they want from him. Let's take Lightning for example. This is all from Toriyama

This time, one of the characteristics of this heroine is that she's not that feminine. I tried to make her someone very strong, independent. When I asked Mr. Nomura to design this character, I requested someone like a female version of Cloud from FFVII.

Q: "How does it effect you, and Square Enix, that FFXIII is such a big project that it's been divided in a lot of separate projects?"

Toriyama:"We've definitely been forced to change our habits and work in new ways. In the center you have the crystals that define Final Fantasy and unite the three XIII projects. But every single game is evolving in its own direction and take place in their own worlds with their own characters. Nomura has designed Lightning, but she's our character."

The guy is just doing his job. Also remember that Vaan was turned into the lead of FFXII even though it was supposed to be Basch. Do you think that was Nomura's call? He had no official involvement in that game. He has nowhere near the amount of power that some people seem to believe that he does. They didn't even put him on the FF Committee, yet and others are convinced that he's the main player behind everything that goes on with it now.
 

Soul_Pie

Member
I have no issue with Final Fantasy XII's look, and that's not an ancient game by any stretch. I also quite like the look of XIV, even though I don't really have any interest in the game itself.

I think what's really annoyed me is the inability to let go of the Final Fantasy XIII universe, and the way this cast of characters and this universe which failed to compel me in the first place has just lingered. So when we talk about the visual identity of Final Fantasy we're unfortunately still talking about the FFXIII universe as a part of that. For me, part of the appeal of Final Fantasy games in the past was that you played a game in the series, with its own set of unique characters and visual identity, you got immersed in that world for a time but then left it, then you started afresh with each new installment as if it were a new beginning. If this world succeeded it left a lasting impression, if it didn't succeed you had the next game to look forward to which would offer an entirely new opportunity to engage the player. I had always had great respect for the series in the past for bucking the industry trend of constantly recycling the same world and story, but instead backing itself to create a unique and enjoyable experience every time that differs both in visual and gameplay identity from the previous games.
 

Mr. RHC

Member
FFXIV couldn't be more different from FFIX aesthetically. Also FFXIV is a horrible game.

It's really similiar when it comes to fashion, actually, which isn't that hard in a fantasy setting fair enough.

They even paid tribute to Vivi!

jEYdRmDviRYph.png
 

kevm3

Member
I actually liked Nomura's designs in 7.. ALl of the characters looked distinct. 8 was the begin of the prettyboyification of everything.

ff7-chocoride.jpg


I also liked his designs on Parasite Eve. But his other games, I don't know what happened... it's like the testosterone was slowly sapped...


look at the progression. Cloud went to confident adventurer to weak emodude.
ff7-cloud.jpg

1615615022_1363480878.jpg
 

Linkyn

Member
I love turn-based RPGs, and I've played and enjoyed most of the early FF games (but nothing after the SNES era). The main thing that bothers me is the presentation. Obviously, this is an eastern RPG, so you shouldn't be surprised about the artstyle. In fact, the character design doesn't bother me half as much as the dialogue (both the source text and the VO). In the end, though, I often feel like I'm playing through a bad interactive anime when giving modern FF a try.
 

pinny

Banned
Of course, I'm just showing that the FF IX - XIV comparison is not a far stretch at all.

Two diferent designs, but you get the idea.

Well, that's a 3D render and not an in-game picture of FFIX. And even then, the style is still quite different from XIV.
 

rataven

Member
The OP is cracking me up. Doesn't like the nonsensical futuristic elements in the modern games.....but it's ok to be nonsensical when it's a castle burrowing beneath the sand? Or omitting Zidane from the 'dumb' hair club, when he's clearly hitting up the same stylist as Tidus. Or completely ignoring the world aesthetics of XII and XIV, one of which is a recent modern game and another that is actually current.

I also dig the jab at teenage girls in the OP too. Perfectly ok for SE to cater to dudes, but god forbid they design characters that might appeal to women too. Girls play FF. Get over it.

Final Fantasy's current problems don't lie with the designs. Maybe the series lost a few precious little snowflake fans from the pre-PS1 generation, but by diversifying, they gained many, many more. The problem with the series lies in it's recent bout of uninspired and horrible writing, along with an obsession with one very grouchy, pouty lady.
 

Midou

Member
Yeah it's hard to say I guess. I like a lot of the games from 7 and on, but I do admit I don't love the visuals.

I've kind of gotten sick of a lot of JRPG art styles this gen, there are very few I 'love'. I'm not sure what it is, I don't mind the graphics of Tales of Xillia for example, but the second game looks a step in the right direction moreso. I'm still really hyped for Bravely Default, but that style never clicked with me either. FFXIII's is okay for some characters, but most are the typical FF bullshit. I don't love 9's style either I guess, I don't mind it, but it's not something I would say appeals to me, I love the game though.

Xenoblade has an awful as shit art style AND technical graphics too, but the game is fun.

I think my love for Dark Souls and The Witcher have pushed me more towards WRPG art style preference as of late, I don't like generic WRPG styles either, but I certainly prefer those two games to the majority of JRPG anime styles, and I love anime in general...

edit: I agree FFXIV ARR has a pretty great art style though.
 

Skilletor

Member
I actually liked Nomura's designs in 7.. ALl of the characters looked distinct. 8 was the begin of the prettyboyification of everything.

ff7-chocoride.jpg


I also liked his designs on Parasite Eve. But his other games, I don't know what happened... it's like the testosterone was slowly sapped...


look at the progression. Cloud went to confident adventurer to weak emodude.
ff7-cloud.jpg

1615615022_1363480878.jpg

I really wish that people would stop using Cloud in Dissidia as some sort of evidence of character regression.

Cloud in Dissidia has been fighting the same war for time out of mind. He keeps seeing his friends die and, for him, sees no end do it. There is a fucking reason that Nomura draws him that way. He is NOT Cloud from Final Fantasy 7.

So stupid when people don't take into account the material they're using for their argument.

The OP is cracking me up. Nonsensical futuristic settings in the modern games.....So it's only ok to be nonsensical when it's a castle burrowing beneath the sand? Or omitting Zidane from the 'dumb' hair category, when he's clearly hitting up the same stylist as Tidus. Or completely ignoring the world aesthetics of XII and XIV, one of which is a recent modern game and another that is actually current.

I also dig the jab at teenage girls in the OP too. Perfectly ok for SE to cater to dudes, but god forbid they design characters that might appeal to women too. Girls play FF. Get over it.

Final Fantasy's current problems don't lie with the designs. Maybe the series lost a few precious little snowflake fans from the pre-PS1 generation, but by diversifying, they gained many, many more. The problem with the series lies in it's recent bout of uninspired and horrible writing, along with an obsession with one very grouchy, pouty lady.

Yeah, I don't get it. I LOVE Nomura's male designs. The only one I come close to disliking is Wakka, but he had a great character arc, so I still like him. I don't care that a lot of them are "pretty." I certainly don't think they're androgynous. And the way people talk about the male characters being androgynous in FF games makes me think that word does not mean what they think it means.
 

rataven

Member
I really wish that people would stop using Cloud in Dissidia as some sort of evidence of character regression.

Cloud in Dissidia has been fighting the same war for time out of mind. He keeps seeing his friends die and, for him, sees no end do it. There is a fucking reason that Nomura draws him that way. He is NOT Cloud from Final Fantasy 7.

So stupid when people don't take into account the material they're using for their argument.

Exactly. And not to mention that within the game that art is drawn for, Cloud's the only warrior to make an effort to get shit done by taking on Chaos alone. But sure, lets just call him a 'weak emodude' because he's not smiling in some artwork. smh.
 
I really wish that people would stop using Cloud in Dissidia as some sort of evidence of character regression.

Cloud in Dissidia has been fighting the same war for time out of mind. He keeps seeing his friends die and, for him, sees no end do it. There is a fucking reason that Nomura draws him that way. He is NOT Cloud from Final Fantasy 7.

So stupid when people don't take into account the material they're using for their argument.

You mean a reason Nomura came up with in the first place BECAUSE he wanted Cloud to be that way in this game?
 

dramatis

Member
Wooo..

You saying characters 2 and 3 are different?

I thought he just had clothes on.

LOL.

Or she whatever that human's gender is.
So you're saying characters 2 and 3 are the same? Or do all Asians look alike because they wear their hair the same way? Do all blonde girls look the same because they're all blonde and have the same hairstyles? I don't suppose you noticed Vayne has deeper set eyes and a longer nose that works both with his sinister attitude and his regal attitude, but let's just generalize based on a faintly similar hairstyle.
 

MYE

Member
Holy crap this thread exploded over night!!

Again I want to point out that I don't mind androgynous/effeminate characters at all. But too much of the same thing over and over gets predictable. Boring.
Not exactly the best feelings to have towards fantasy settings and characters.
 

Skilletor

Member
You mean a reason Nomura came up with in the first place BECAUSE he wanted Cloud to be that way in this game?

Did Nomura write the story for Dissidia? Doesn't appear so from the credits.

But yeah, let's blame him for everything and ignore character development within a game to suit arguments.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Did Nomura write the story for Dissidia? Doesn't appear so from the credits.

But yeah, let's blame him for everything and ignore character development within a game to suit arguments.

Toriyama did I think.
 

Skilletor

Member
Toriyama did I think.

Yeah, even if Nomura did write the story, it would be a silly thing to say.

Nomura wrote the story so that cloud would be upset and despondent so that he could draw him this way.

Not: Nomura came up with an idea that all of the heroes in FF are constantly repeating a losing war against the villains. How would the heroes react to this circumstance?

The Nomura hate is hilarious.
 

Shion

Member
Art and design wise it died at FF7, SE was smart to release FF9 but then they abandoned that and went back to what FF7/8 was :/

What was wrong with FFVII?

Midgar is one of the most distinctive and memorable locations in video games, and the character design of the game is inoffensive at worst.
 

Famassu

Member
They are boring to me because they look just like regular dudes (well, regular corny-dressed dudes walking off of a movie set or a Japanese music video). I mean, nothing about that pic makes me wonder or be amazed or curious. Show me Red XIII, Barrett, Cait Sith...show me that magic and make me go "what in the world is going on here?" Show me color and creativity and different shapes and fantasy.
I really couldn't care less about flamboyant or fantastical looks of characters. The FFXV characters fit the more modern world they are creating. Some main character that looks like Zidane (his actual Amano art look and not the Amano-art-raped-into-deformed/chibi-style look in the actual game) or another TIdus simply wouldn't fit in the world. At all. I care more about the quality of characters as actual characters than making them look something extra special. To me, FFXV's characters are as successful as Nomura's Parasite Eve Aya Brea was. Aya may not be the most excitingly fantastical character design ever, but it does its job perfectly in the setting it takes place in. You could also imagine the main cast to be a prince and his (mostly) young group of friends/advisors/protectors in a modern day setting, though of course ones that have gone through a Nomura/Roen stylemachine. They fit the roles they have as perfectly as a Nomura design ever could. I mean, you could take any prince of the world today and I'm sure they've been seen dressed in similar clothing (maybe less black and not Roen style, but still dressed in similarly casual wear, in somewhat trendy t-shirts and shorts). Maybe that's not what you are expecting of fantasy but FFXV, moreso than any other FF ever, IS based on the real world, so with some stuff they are trying to imitate a more modern day look, while offering something fantastical with huge monsters attacking a city & creating tsunamis that lift buildings off the ground..



Like every Final Fantasy after Final Fantasy 9. Yeah, I know. It was cool for the first 3 years, but it's been the same 10 years after that and looks like it will keep up this way for another decade.
I don't see anything in X, XI, XII, XIII or XIV about them trying to root anything in reality. More realistically proportioned characters, sure, but not rooted in reality.

I'm just...bored.
As with everything, looks aren't everything. Zidane might be more fantastical a character design, but he's a very boring main character overall. With characters, I'm more interested in personalities and interactions of those personalities with each other. I'm hoping that with the help of Nojima and Jun Akiyama (event director/planner of games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, FFXII), they can get some better character portrayals & interaction that are far beyond the usual (or recent past's) FF quality instead of characters having some more fantastical look, but them sprouting nonsense for most of the game. I can't stress enough how much I enjoy the kid-Noctis & the king scene in the E3 trailer. They seem more like real people instead of trope-ish characters talking shit about being heroes or motivational "don't give up!" speeches, even if Noctis ends up being a character that zero shifts around, casts huge fire spells and does all kinds of other crazy shit.

As far as a FF game goes, I don't really give a fuck if a character looks very distinct like Zidane or if it's a bit more mundane like Noctis & his friends. I want the fantastical element be more present in the world itself & its events (i.e. the Venice-inspired city looks like something you really can't wait to explore, or how when the nations go to war one of them summons a huge Leviathan to wreak havoc on the city), not in how the characters look. I could be controlling a fucking cardboard box if the setting itself offered interesting locales to explore and that cardboard didn't sprout Toriyama-level dialogue.


Art and design wise it died at FF7, SE was smart to release FF9 but then they abandoned that and went back to what FF7/8 was :/
I guess in your world XI, XII & XIV didn't happen. Nothing died at Square Enix after VII, certainly not their art department, that's just stupid talk.
 

GorillaJu

Member
Nomura's never lost his talent as an artist and illustrator, but he's way too worried about his characters looking young and trendy and fitting into slightly modified Japanese character stereotypes. He's lost his ability to make characters that define the experience of playing the game and entice you to be interested in that world.

FF6-10 had that quality for me. FF12's characters, outside of Balthier, were mediocre. The game was great for other reasons, but the characters themselves were just empty vessels.

FF13's characters were abysmal creations with no redeeming qualities. Only Fang had that Final Fantasy mystery to her, but when you played the game you realized how stupid and shallow she actually is.
 

ZenTzen

Member
Nomura's never lost his talent as an artist and illustrator, but he's way too worried about his characters looking young and trendy and fitting into slightly modified Japanese character stereotypes. He's lost his ability to make characters that define the experience of playing the game and entice you to be interested in that world.

FF6-10 had that quality for me. FF12's characters, outside of Balthier, were mediocre. The game was great for other reasons, but the characters themselves were just empty vessels.

FF13's characters were abysmal creations with no redeeming qualities. Only Fang had that Final Fantasy mystery to her, but when you played the game you realized how stupid and shallow she actually is.

Nomura wasnt involved in XII art direction and while he designed FFXIII characters the ultimate and final decision wasnt up to him in the first place
 
The way people blame Nomura, you'd think he has been writing/directing every single FF since FF7. And when arguing about the art direction, people tend to ignore FF9/FF11/FF12/FF14 ever happened. Every FF has been like FF7!
 

Into

Member
When i like 12, my parents went away for the weekend, so i had to feed myself. Being a stupid kid, i took a giant piece of bread, and basically put every single thing i could on it, mustard, tomato, salami, all kinds of cheese, anything i could find in the fridge, i put it in. My idea was, if i put everything i like in this sandwich, i will surely love it!

It did not pan out that, the sandwich was gross and after 2 bites i threw it out.

That is modern Final Fantasy design in a nutshell
 

Snakeyes

Member
Nomura's never lost his talent as an artist and illustrator, but he's way too worried about his characters looking young and trendy and fitting into slightly modified Japanese character stereotypes. He's lost his ability to make characters that define the experience of playing the game and entice you to be interested in that world.

FF6-10 had that quality for me. FF12's characters, outside of Balthier, were mediocre. The game was great for other reasons, but the characters themselves were just empty vessels.

FF13's characters were abysmal creations with no redeeming qualities. Only Fang had that Final Fantasy mystery to her, but when you played the game you realized how stupid and shallow she actually is.

Belts N' Zips wasn't involved with XII.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Yeah it's hard to say I guess. I like a lot of the games from 7 and on, but I do admit I don't love the visuals.

I've kind of gotten sick of a lot of JRPG art styles this gen, there are very few I 'love'. I'm not sure what it is, I don't mind the graphics of Tales of Xillia for example, but the second game looks a step in the right direction moreso. I'm still really hyped for Bravely Default, but that style never clicked with me either. FFXIII's is okay for some characters, but most are the typical FF bullshit. I don't love 9's style either I guess, I don't mind it, but it's not something I would say appeals to me, I love the game though.

Xenoblade has an awful as shit art style AND technical graphics too, but the game is fun.

I think my love for Dark Souls and The Witcher have pushed me more towards WRPG art style preference as of late, I don't like generic WRPG styles either, but I certainly prefer those two games to the majority of JRPG anime styles, and I love anime in general...

edit: I agree FFXIV ARR has a pretty great art style though.

What the fuck. Does not compute.
 
A Lot of the characters do looke really dumb yes.

However because the games were not written by Motomu Toriyama the characters actually had redeeming qualities.

People limit artstyle to character designs too much. While Xenoblade's characters really aren't anything special, it has some of the best world design in any game this generation or any other. And also technically speaking it's undeniably impressive.
 
People limit artstyle to character designs too much. While Xenoblade's characters really aren't anything special, it has some of the best world design in any game this generation or any other. And also technically speaking it's undeniably impressive.

I'm not denying that.

Still, doesn't change the fact that some characters do look really dumb.
 

Manu

Member
I'm with you OP. I'm tired of this Nomura madness. Enough with the gay/metrosexual bullshit. It was nice for one game or two, but I'm so tired of that style. I wish we could go back to the PSone days in which every Final Fantasy had its own style.

WHAT

Also, every Final Fantasy still does have its own style.

When I saw this pic, I moaned a little bit too. Same old, same old. I don't see much creativity here at all. Boring characters. I'll forgive and forget, though, if the game and gameplay is excellent.

I literally can't think of another game with character designs like that.
 
XV looks pretty cool. Gives me kind of a FFVII meets FFVIII vibe. All the monsters kind of ruin the look though.

XIII is dog shit through and through. I put it on the level of star ocean. That's how bad it is.

XII was fantastic.

X was lame

IX was beautiful. Probably the most beautiful looking FF game. The world is straight out of a fairy tale.

VIII was pretty slick looking at times. Otherwise it was bland and lacking in character.

VII is really, really good in Midgar, which is like a dark, futuristic cyber Tokyo. Outside, not so much. SE really fucked up Midgar's look in AC though. Like another person said in this thread, SE really doesn't understand why people liked FFVII.
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
I love the 'don't like it, don't play it attitude' what if we do enjoy the series but want to see it improve or evolve? I Agree with those who think nomura is terrible. Does that really mean I should just play another series? Because I dislike 1 or 2 aspects? Get over yourself. Every other aspect of the series changes and evolves but for some reason that dinosaur nomura is still around calling the shots with his bullshit prettyboy focus tested mediocrity. It's time for a change

I swear you just shit post and don't even read responses. I'll ask you again. Are you even aware of who Amano is and how "prettyboy" his artwork is?

And can you stop spouting this "focus tested" FUD? It's a straight up lie, and you have zero facts to back it up. What is your problem?
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
The way people blame Nomura, you'd think he has been writing/directing every single FF since FF7. And when arguing about the art direction, people tend to ignore FF9/FF11/FF12/FF14 ever happened. Every FF has been like FF7!

No. Facts don't matter anymore. The Nomura hate train is already in full swing, even if it makes absolutely no sense. Ugh.
 
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