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[TI82]

As a socialist, doesn't Bernie believe in the good of the people? That everyone is equal and deserves a chance to live their life and be happy? So how does retaining your moral superiority or purity by refusing to vote for Hillary in the general election, surely at a minimum, the lesser of two evils, not go against everything Bernie says and believes in, if he were to lose the primary?

How is it a good idea to vote a criminal into office, or someone with at least the poor judgment to get herself into that predicament?

 

[royalan]

How is it a good idea to vote a criminal into office, or someone with at least the poor judgment to get herself into that predicament?

What crime is Hillary guilty of?

 

[Knox]

How is it a good idea to vote a criminal into office, or someone with at least the poor judgment to get herself into that predicament?

When the alternative is Donald Trump.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

People should be more receptive of the old saying "perfect is the enemy of good" when it comes to politics.

 

[Paskil]

How is it a good idea to vote a criminal into office, or someone with at least the poor judgment to get herself into that predicament?

A. What royalan said.
B. In what way is Trump in any way better or equal to any of Sanders' promised actions for the middle class, minorities, personal freedoms, personal rights, the Supreme Court, etc.?
C. Hillary and Sanders have been in robust agreement on many policy points, at a high level. At the very least, minorities, the poor, and the disadvantaged would do better under a Clinton administration.

 

[AxelFoley]

Case in point, continue doing what you do it definitely gets people on your side

And Berniebros wonder why no one likes them. SMH

 

[Cipherr]

DWS does suck, but that's just a cover for yet another thread for the same folks to vent about the slow acceptance of Bernie losing the nom.

I mean, with the snap of the fingers this thread dove headfirst into "Hillary is a criminal"

 

[FunkyMunkey]

How is it a good idea to vote a criminal into office, or someone with at least the poor judgment to get herself into that predicament?

i've said this a hundred fucking times and people still don't get it

what crimes is she guilty of?

i suspect you'll ghost this thread like everyone else does in a effort to avoid answering that question and pretending that you actually know more than the justice department of the united states government and not regurgitating spoon-fed bullshit from mama bird facebook

And Berniebros wonder why no one likes them. SMH

yep. "wah wah wah you guys are mean and i may not vote for hillary because of it!"

good, no one gives a fuck. piss away your vote if you want because thank god the smarter and more reasonable voters heavily outweigh shit like this

 

[brainchild]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

 

[googleplex]

i've said this a hundred fucking times and people still don't get it

what crimes is she guilty of?

i suspect you'll ghost this thread like everyone else does in a effort to avoid answering that question and pretending that you actually know more than the justice department of the united states government and not regurgitating spoon-fed bullshit from mama bird facebook

Having a vagina and not knowing her place. The attacks that she has had to endure for over 20 years comes down to this.

 

[BanGy.nz]

She sucks and shouldn't be the DNC chair (and won't be for much longer) but this is some petty shit by the Sanders campaign.

 

[woolley]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

I would expect most people would be good with DWS not being head of the party but when your running for party nominee there are some things your don't do and this is one of them.

 

[royalan]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

You can simultaneously think DWS is terrible at her job and recognize Bernie's endorsement of Tim Canova as the temper tantrum that it is. Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Skiptastic]

Wouldn't it be best for her to keep her seat but not be DNC chair anymore?

 

[googleplex]

she's fine in congress. I don't think she's particularly terrible heading the DNC either but that job is more visible than ever and she has a tendency to come off as shrill, it's just not a good fit for her

i find it kind of petty bernie's going after her seat but whatever

Ugh...

 

[FunkyMunkey]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

context. to view this as anything but bernie throwing a tantrum is ridiculous. this isn't occurring in a vacuum, this is after bernie has blamed the dnc and everything else under the sun for his failure at getting more votes than hillary, except himself

 

[collige]

I would expect most people would be good with DWS not being head of the party but when your running for party nominee there are some things your don't do and this is one of them.

Did you watch the clip in question? Even if he wanted to endorse DWS, he couldn't without looking like a hypocrite.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

It's just a hate party centered around a candidate that has overwhelming minority support. And then trying to guilt some of us into compromising our own morals to vote for her lol

Fixed that for you.

And to repeat myself: why is everyone ignoring the overwhelming DWS support in her district? Will of the people only matters when they're feeling the Bern?

 

[Drek]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

I'm not seeing anyone in this thread advocating for DWS. Just a lot of people pointing out that if he really ever had any intention of unifying for the convention he's sure making it harder with something like this. It makes even less sense when there is basically zero chance this even remotely threatens DWS' seat too.

It's just dumb. Does Bernie Sanders not deserve to get called out for doing dumb shit that will specifically hurt his cause in both the short and long term?

 

[Team Alucard]

Bernie should just spend the rest of the Primary season going after DWS. He would be doing the Democratic Party a huge favor if he sunk her.

Its amazing that people seem to think Reince needs to go (when by all objective measures he has done an AMAZING job as party chair) yet Debbie is perfectly fine. The Democratic party is a complete and total mess outside of Obama and a lot of it is absolutely her fault. They should have never gotten rid of Dean.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

You can simultaneously think DWS is terrible at her job and recognize Bernie's endorsement of Tim Canova as the temper tantrum that it is. Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

A temper tantrum? He didnt go on a twitter rant, he answered someones question.

 

[brainchild]

I would expect most people would be good with DWS not being head of the party but when your running for party nominee there are some things your don't do and this is one of them.

You can simultaneously think DWS is terrible at her job and recognize Bernie's endorsement of Tim Canova as the temper tantrum that it is. Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

The point is that I already predicted what the responses would be; focused on Bernie being an asshole, instead of him being right, and that's exactly what happened. The bias is real. The tone and focus of this thread would be completely different if those words came out Hillary's mouth.

 

[TI82]

what crimes is she guilty of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

C. Hillary and Sanders have been in robust agreement on many policy points, at a high level. At the very least, minorities, the poor, and the disadvantaged would do better under a Clinton administration.

Please, how would minorities poor and "disadvantaged" do better under a Clinton administration?

Having a vagina and not knowing her place. The attacks that she has had to endure for over 20 years comes down to this.

This is the worst part, I am 100% okay with a woman president/leader. But voting for someone just because she is a woman, no. There are good female candidates out there, Hillary is not one of them. So to assume that I'm sexist? fuck off with that garbage

 

[woolley]

Did you watch the clip in question? Even if he wanted to endorse DWS, he couldn't without looking like a hypocrite.

It's a question you don't answer, you don't throw an endorsement behind either of them. Bernie is really good at not answering the questions asked him, he should have kept that up.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Might as well plan to live in another country, bro.

If one thing America can perfect, it's always hatred, bigotry, ignorance, and relish in it with pride.

Sure racism is still a problem but America moves forward, even begrudgingly. I live in GA, trust me I've called "nigger" by a truck full of people driving by amongst other things. We're at a point though where we can fight justice system corruption, systematic racism and injustice. Trump sets us back, not one step but decades. He empowers willingly racists and bigots and puts them in power with campaign. Honestly I think this election is more dire than 2008, I feel like I have a personal stake here to not get Trump in power. That's why it irks to see people pout and say they will stay home. Hey, if minorities don't matter to you and you want to stay home, fine don't be upset when you get called out for it.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I'm not seeing anyone in this thread advocating for DWS. Just a lot of people pointing out that if he really ever had any intention of unifying for the convention he's sure making it harder with something like this. It makes even less sense when there is basically zero chance this even remotely threatens DWS' seat too.

It's just dumb. Does Bernie Sanders not deserve to get called out for doing dumb shit that will specifically hurt his cause in both the short and long term?

As chair of the party or a Rep in Congress? Because she's an awful party chair, and should step down after Hillary wins in November, but she's apparently super favorable in her district, and should trounce Canova in the primary.

I'll ask this broadly for a third time. Why should the will of the people only count when they represent Bernie?

 

[B-Dubs]

The point is that I already predicted what the responses would be; focused on Bernie being an asshole, instead of him being right, and that's exactly what happened. The bias is real. The tone and focus of this thread would be completely different if those words came out Hillary's mouth.

No shit the tone would be different, Hillary Clinton hasn't spent the last 3 months blaming the DNC for everything under the sun. If you can't see why the tone would rightly be different I don't know what to say to you.

 

[Blader]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

I imagine most Dems here, Hildawgs or otherwise, would be completely fine with DWS no longer leading the party but are more concerned about what a clearly hostile position toward the leadership from Bernie means for that party unity thing everyone is looking forward to.

So, uh, maybe dial it back a little?

 

[pigeon]

I really can't give a shit about this.

Tim Canova's campaign is literally modeled on Bernie Sanders's, right down to refuse in SuperPAC help and focusing on small donations. Honestly, it's notable that Bernie hasn't endorsed him before now!

Sure it's like rude to endorse the primary opponent of the DNC chair, but whatever. He didn't call her a devil or the establishment or a corporate shill. Toned down rhetoric!

 

[studyguy]

Her term literally ends next year who gives a shit.

 

[brainchild]

context. to view this as anything but bernie throwing a tantrum is ridiculous. this isn't occurring in a vacuum, this is after bernie has blamed the dnc and everything else under the sun for his failure at getting more votes than hillary, except himself

I'm not seeing anyone in this thread advocating for DWS. Just a lot of people pointing out that if he really ever had any intention of unifying for the convention he's sure making it harder with something like this. It makes even less sense when there is basically zero chance this even remotely threatens DWS' seat too.

It's just dumb. Does Bernie Sanders not deserve to get called out for doing dumb shit that will specifically hurt his cause in both the short and long term?

See, this is what happens when you live in a bubble and don't bother to shift perspective.

Bernie has been shading DWS LONG before the primaries ever started.

A temper tantrum this is not.

 

[Drek]

Wouldn't it be best for her to keep her seat but not be DNC chair anymore?

Well, I'm absolutely not going to describe DWS staying in Congress as "best", she's your pretty typical district > country congressperson. She's also pretty tied into the traditional political machine that the democratic party has generally been moving away from to a more open and representative system.

I find it amusing that her management of the DNC, even if intended to be some kind of Clinton favoring machine, has been anything but and yet that is what she gets derided for.

The ideal would be to replace her with a better candidate who would win the seat in the general. But if the alternative is turning the seat over to the GOP I'd rather stick with DWS, and this election cycle isn't really the time to make her relatively safe district into a contest just for the sake of change.

 

[Foffy]

Fixed that for you.

And to repeat myself: why is everyone ignoring the overwhelming DWS support in her district? Will of the people only matters when they're feeling the Bern?

Well...

She represents Florida. :3c

If they're fine with what she does there, that's fine. Her as the DNC has been pretty mediocre, at best. To appeal to the wrestling marks, she's been very much a Roman Reigns like figure.

 

[Paskil]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

DWS has been unopposed in several races and hasn't faced a primary opponent since first winning election in 2006. She has handily won all of her races for reelection and her constituents seem to be generally happy with her representation. So what is this, then? She obviously fairly represents the views and ideals of the party. So instead, because she was unfair to poh Bwernie, she's going to get primaried by the Green Tea Party candidate? Yeah, DWS is a real piece of shit DNC Chair, but advocate for her replacement. What is this primary shit?

Hmm, but nope, HillGAF is so in the tank for Hillary and are establishment shills, boohoohoo.

 

[Blader]

Bernie should just spend the rest of the Primary season going after DWS. He would be doing the Democratic Party a huge favor if he sunk her.

Its amazing that people seem to think Reince needs to go (when by all objective measures he has done an AMAZING job as party chair) yet Debbie is perfectly fine. The Democratic party is a complete and total mess outside of Obama and a lot of it is absolutely her fault. They should have never gotten rid of Dean.

Has anyone in this thread said anything close to "DWS is perfectly fine as party chair"?

 

[Kite]

A politician who is getting his ass kicked endorses another politician who is going to get his shit shoved in. Who cares?

 

[TheChocoboCadet]

EDIT: My bad. Ignore me!

 

[FrenchToastDisciple]

Both sides here reached "Look at (Sanders/Clinton) eating those fucking crackers" a few months ago.

The sooner people realize the function of electoral politics is to just get some person in office that has to listen to people who care about political issues because enough people who voted him or her in cares about those issues, rather than it being the totality of the political world, the better off we will be.

I'd rather Bernie Sanders be the president rather than Hilary Clinton because the conversation would be starting a little more to the left and he's less beholden to fundamentally undemocratic political forces, but, at the end of the day, he's an imperfect person who holds public office who will never be anywhere near the perfect progressive hero some people want him to be. Candidates should not be the center of the political process, but tools. Consequently, I wish people would stop with this toxic snark (on both the Sanders and Clinton sides), and just show up to fucking vote. Better yet, actually try to engage in some sort of political process that actually deals with the lived political realities of people, you know actual politics. It's this sort of insulated, myopic, horse race focused bullshit that leads so many people to think this shit doesn't matter in the first place. Stay focused on the actual politics of day to day life and maybe these apathetic people (who Bernie Sanders only begins to reach the tip of) might actually start engaging in political processes.

Of course Bernie is a false prophet. Who cares. They all are. Of course Hilary Clinton is an "establishment" candidate. They all are to a certain extent. That's how you get power. The job of citizens is to coerce candidates with existing power into doing shit that they want, not picking a team and narrowing your political imagination. That sort of shit just leads to shitty moral blackmail (get in line or your'll have to deal with Trump). Of course Trump is awful, but the reason he even got this far in the first place is because he knows how to manipulate this stupid system in which we give far, far too much of a shit about candidates and not about things that actually matter.

Stop using candidates as short hands for concepts like "ideological purity," and "compromise." Nobody who has ever been a part of an establishment political process has not compromised to get something he or she wanted, and nothing has ever gotten done without ideology driving the process. Candidates aren't ideas. They're vessels for policy and should be nothing more.

Rant over I guess. I don't normally post in political threads, but this snarky culture is really preventing me from enjoying any of them.

 

[daedalius]

Exactly this. Why compromise ourselves to vote for an awful candidate just because there's another awful candidate (who even has numerous ties to Hillary lol)

Ugh, you're the worst

 

[royalan]

A temper tantrum? He didnt go on a twitter rant, he answered someones question.

I don't think this explains the follow-up to his answer. Also, I don't look at his answer in a vacuum. Throughout this primary, Bernie and his campaign have outright accused DWS of rigging the primary against him. Bernie's own response to questions about the behavior of his supporters in Nevada was to again turn away from any personal blame and blame Nevada democrats for rigging the process (a claim that has been debunked). Why do you think Bernie is being asked about DWS in the first place?

The point is that I already predicted what the responses would be; focused on Bernie being an asshole, instead of him being right, and that's exactly what happened. The bias is real. The tone and focus of this thread would be completely different if those words came out Hillary's mouth.

I agree that the tone and focus would be different. But I HIGHLY doubt it would be defense of DWS. More like confusion over why Hillary would advocate something so pointless. lol

Luckily, she's not that petty.

 

[BlastProcessing]

The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

Sanders walked into a Sunday interview with this in his pocket. Clinton is on Meet the Press tomorrow and this is his way of countering that. He is picking a fight at a time where he needs to keep his base fired up. He knows that Canova has no chance and he damn well knows that his weighing in on the matter won't move the needle at all.

What is disgusting about being critical of this strategy?

 

[TI82]

*cough cough* Muslim ban

No, he specifically stated versus a bernie administration.

 

[brainchild]

No shit the tone would be different, Hillary Clinton hasn't spent the last 3 months blaming the DNC for everything under the sun. If you can't see why the tone would rightly be different I don't know what to say to you.

This bears no logical consistency. It wouldn't change the fact that she would supposedly be jeopardizing the unity of the party by openly saying such things about the chair, which is what the argument is here, not that Bernie has been criticizing the DNC.

I imagine most Dems here, Hildawgs or otherwise, would be completely fine with DWS no longer leading the party but are more concerned about what a clearly hostile position toward the leadership from Bernie means for that party unity thing everyone is looking forward to.

So, uh, maybe dial it back a little?

I have no qualms about a candidate being willing to criticize their own party when it is necessary. If they're wrong, they're wrong, and you don't pretend that they're not for the sake of party unity.

 

[BUNTING1243]

i'm fine with him doing this when he drops out.

it just makes his path to victory seem more insane and pointless and potentially harmful

 

[Kusagari]

DWS has been unopposed in several races and hasn't faced a primary opponent since first winning election in 2006. She has handily won all of her races for reelection and her constituents seem to be generally happy with her representation. So what is this, then? She obviously fairly represents the views and ideals of the party. So instead, because she was unfair to poh Bwernie, she's going to get primaried by the Green Tea Party candidate? Yeah, DWS is a real piece of shit DNC Chair, but advocate for her replacement. What is this primary shit?

Hmm, but nope, HillGAF is so in the tank for Hillary and are establishment shills, boohoohoo.

I don't even care about her being a terrible DNC chair. I want her out of the party and out of politics because arguably the most powerful Democrat in Florida being a woman more concerned with keeping her GOP friends in office than supporting Democrats needs to be kicked out on her damn ass.

 

[aeolist]

The sooner people realize the function of electoral politics is to just get some person in office that has to listen to people who care about political issues because enough people who voted him or her in cares about those issues, rather than it being the totality of the political world, the better off we will be.

I'd rather Bernie Sanders be the president rather than Hilary Clinton because the conversation would be starting a little more to the left and he's less beholden to fundamentally undemocratic political forces, but, at the end of the day, he's an imperfect person who holds public office who will never be anywhere near the perfect progressive hero some people want him to be. Candidates should not be the center of the political process, but tools. Consequently, I wish people would stop with this toxic snark (on both the Sanders and Clinton sides), and just show up to fucking vote. Better yet, actually try to engage in some sort of political process that actually deals with the lived political realities of people, you know actual politics. It's this sort of insulated, myopic, horse race focused bullshit that leads so many people to think this shit doesn't matter in the first place. Stay focused on the actual politics of day to day life and maybe these apathetic people (who Bernie Sanders only begins to reach the tip of) might actually start engaging in political processes.

Of course Bernie is a false prophet. Who cares. They all are. Of course Hilary Clinton is an "establishment" candidate. They all are to a certain extent. That's how you get power. The job of citizens is to coerce candidates with existing power into doing shit that they want, not picking a team and narrowing your political imagination. That sort of shit just leads to shitty moral blackmail (get in line or your'll have to deal with Trump). Of course Trump is awful, but the reason he even got this far in the first place is because he knows how to manipulate this stupid system in which we give far, far too much of a shit about candidates and not about things that actually matter.

Stop using candidates as short hands for concepts like "ideological purity," and "compromise." Nobody who has ever been a part of an establishment political process has not compromised to get something he or she wanted, and nothing has ever gotten done without ideology driving the process. Candidates aren't ideas. They're vessels for policy and should be nothing more.

Rant over I guess. I don't normally post in political threads, but this snarky culture is really preventing me from enjoying any of them.

i agree with basically everything here. i voted for bernie because he's more aligned with my politics but i'll vote for hillary eagerly come the fall. both of them would require public pressure to keep them doing the right thing as president, neither is an ideal candidate.

 

[Drek]

See, this is what happens when you live in a bubble and don't bother to shift perspective.

Bernie has been shading DWS LONG before the primaries ever started.

A temper tantrum this is not.

No bubble here. I know he's been on this horse for a while. My point is that the overt endorsement of her primary opponent as the one real moment of down ticket support you're going to throw out all primary, coupled with reiterating his comments about her performance as chair of the DNC, just a few weeks before the last primaries, sure as hell isn't the act of someone interested in unity.

It's dumb. It only hurts his bargaining position with Clinton, the DNC, the convention, and the party platform.

I don't think he particularly cares about that because I think he wants to be the source of a misguided attempt at re-creating the 1968 convention. He's a professional protester and knows nothing else. This is him drying out the kindling to make sure there will be enough friction come the convention to spark a good fire. That is also incredibly dumb, destructive, and likely going to result in something that is actually dangerous. But then Bernie Sanders has never let doing what's right get in the way of his inquisition and now he's got a good sized pack of prosecutors behind him.

 

[cbrun44]

Bernie really is a crotchety old sack. I have never heard an old man whine so much. Getting even more annoying as the days roll on.

Finish him Hillary!

 

[Knox]

I imagine most Dems here, Hildawgs or otherwise, would be completely fine with DWS no longer leading the party but are more concerned about what a clearly hostile position toward the leadership from Bernie means for that party unity thing everyone is looking forward to.

So, uh, maybe dial it back a little?

"OK Bernie, I know the DNC's shit all over you since the beginning of this race, but it's time to respect the party leadership". Nah, I feel like Bernie has earned the few shots he's actually taking. He could be doing much worse.

Don't worry Hilldawgs, he'll endorse when he has to.

 

[Paskil]

Please, how would minorities poor and "disadvantaged" do better under a Clinton administration?

Apparently I wasn't clear, which is my fault. I was directly contrasting that with my earlier question about asking how Trump would in any way be better or the same as Bernie in any of the questions? Objectively, Hillary would at least be the same as Bernie on most stated policy issues as Bernie. Trump would be a complete negative. My point is, if you choose not to vote for Hillary if Bernie loses, you are going against everything that Bernie advocates and if Trump wins, you either wanted that, or didn't give a shit that the results of that turnout will now fuck those people up (which would be going against Bernie's ideals by not supporting the enemy of his enemy).