Never. Neither Gambit nor Popeyes will ever be allowed in my home.
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Black Panther vs Batman: Armbars are banned to make it fair for Batman
- Thread starter Slayven
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Never. Neither Gambit nor Popeyes will ever be allowed in my home.
Deified Data
Banned
Be enlightened! He's a great character with a great history - you just have to be selective about which writer's runs to read.
And by "selective", folks mean "Stay away from Hudlin."
You would assume correctly.
Rayven_king
Member
I'd rather read hudlin than roy fucking thomas
What beef do you have with Gambit?
I've hated Gambit and his accent and his stupid playing card gimmick since the 90's animated series. I suppose I could give one of his series a shot, but I just have no interest in the character.
If he had less depth he would be Barry Allen.
Badass,ninja, thief tortured romantic who is in love with a woman he can never be with. What's not to love?
Sold.
IrishNinja
Member
this would be pretty cool - i love Marc but i dont know if he can take bats though. it'd be a good fight.
i'm irishninja, and there were my favorite posts
His isn't a ninja, Daredevil waxed his ass in Gambits first solo.
wtf? this is so ridiculous that it makes no sense. it's not like he's made of muscles and a central nervous system. he's the fucking silver surfer!
he flies through suns! can resurrect life! Goes faster than everything on this planet combined!
Did Black Panther go to the Royce Grace School of Grappling Space Entities?
BlackBanditSho
Member
Disagree. This thing about them not having chemistry is bull. They're comic book characters that can be written any way editorial demands as long as it's treated respectfully, and, hopefully for the long haul.
I'm just not understanding why it's so difficult to believe that Panther and Ororo could work out. The dude is a suave, strong, black man who just happens to be ridiculously intelligent, athletic, commands a kingdom, oh, and both happen to be African from not too dissimilar regions.
I get it. People dig Storm, and I can't blame them. Back when she was leading the X-Men circa 200's, you couldn't tell me that she wasn't cut out to lead the team. This whole crap about Storm and Forge? GTFOH with that. It came suddenly and really didn't have much meat on the bones...
...But Panther? I'm not going to get into the whole Panther/Batman thing because the only guy who really took Panther to another level was Priest. Nobody has tried - or even WANTED to - keep Panther at that level of cunning and power since then. He was, like Morrison's Batman, PERFECT. A lot of people never liked that, but whatever.
I stopped reading Marvel/DC a few years back. I'd been reading since I was 10, and I'm 37 now. I can't even count on ONE HAND the number of black couples you actually see in comics that weren't MILESTONE. Not ONE HAND.
So when Hudlin gave one that made the most sense, fanboys pitched a BITCH about it.
I had to grow up reading Peter and MJ, Peter and Felicia, Scott and Jean, Scott and Maddy, Alex and Lorna, Steve and Sharon, Matt and Elektra, Hank and Janet, Viz and Scartlett, Ben and Alicia, Bruce and Betty, Reed and Sue, Sue and Namor...i mean FUCK, i can keep going forever with this crap, and that's JUST MARVEL.
After being a lifelong fan of comics in general, this was finally a reward for people like myself. Can I just get THREE black couples? THREE?? TWO??? FUCk...ONE??
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are going strong.
BlackBanditSho
Member
Lol...i laughed to keep from crying, then I simply stopped buying. They don't miss my dollars anyway.
Yeah, but the Scan was taken out of context and all of the internet doesnt know whats going on there.
Byakuya769
Member
What context makes it better though?
Okay, so Silver Surfer wanted to get caught, but doesn't that make T'Challa an absolute dumbass for thinking his peak(+) human strength could hold a 100+ ton lifter?
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Cold blooded.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
And it was glorious.
BlackBanditSho
Member
Jeez with Daredevil. Daredevil = DC's Wildcat with angst-filled storyline and "super-sight" despite the fact that he's blind. I loved DD back in the day, sure, but c'mon. He's only cool because ninjas were once cool, and DD is effectively a ninja. Frankly, Ninjas are the next-level of canon fodder in the Marvel Universe. Street thugs<Hydra/Aim<Ninjas<generic aliens horde<skrulls<Brood. EVERYBODY beats up on Ninjas like it's a morning workout.
There is no way, NO WAY, DD is beating Panther *any* day of the week unless some writer clearly doesn't give a single shit about BP...which are most Marvel writers, frankly. Take DD outside of Hell's Kitchen and he's a joke. Why Marvel continues to feel that BP should GO to Hell's Kitchen is beyond me.
Moon Knight can futz around with Hell's Kitchen. Let Danny Rand kick it with Daredevil. If Frank Miller hadn't ever done a DD run, nobody would give it a second look. Bendis' run was amazing, but built on the Miller run.
Again, neither writer wrote Daredevil as a type of character that should even been SPARRING with Black Panther, frankly.
The context explained by the author himself. Yeah T'challa was a dumbass because he actually thought he could hold and rip a god tier super hero arms.
And those who support Black Panther over Batman, one thing: BatMite.
IrishNinja
Member
WTF @ this post...i get your points on ninjas (the hand only kills other ninjas, they actually res more than they kill, its fuckin awful) and no one touched DD till Miller, but even you gotta acknowledge Bendis' run was amazing, and Bru's was tight too.
you should read his ongoing with waid, its less dark/angsty but given his continuity, it has the right amount. you're right, he's not at all in BP's weight class, but he's awesome for a lotta reasons man.
daredevil has always been beasty though.
so youre pushing them simply because there a black couple? thats exactly why this was stupid in the first place. forge and storm makes sense, not this.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'm pretty sure Lois is married to Supes in original, and well... I prefer Bats/Wondy
And I hate teenagers!
Going back to the Silver Surfer armbar thing for a moment, I get that the Silver Surfer pretty much let BP do that to him.
But for all the intelligence and preptime that BP has, certainly he would have to have known about the Silver Surfer's capabilities.
... So again, why exactly did he think that armbar would work again?
But for all the intelligence and preptime that BP has, certainly he would have to have known about the Silver Surfer's capabilities.
... So again, why exactly did he think that armbar would work again?
BlackBanditSho
Member
Don't get me wrong, I loved DD. I've enjoyed something about nearly EVERY run of the character. Hell, I even enjoyed Nocenti's run during Inferno. And you're right, Brubaker's run was definitely a solid one. I'm just agreeing that he's not in Panther-class.
Okay, man. Why was Storm and Forge's relationship better? Like, really...how much longer did it REALLY last? How much time did Claremont REALLY spend building that thing? Like, after the Life/Death mini by Barry Windsor, Claremont barely touched on it until well into the Mutant Massacre stuff years later. My friend, it was a fling. It was two spirits in pain finding comfort for a very brief time. It wasn't meant to be love eternal. I was reading the stuff as it happened. Fans love to recall those bygone days with rose-colored lenses. There wasn't much there.
And so what that Hudlin ret-conned storylines to create something that actually makes sense. No writer or editor since Claremont ever even CARED about Ororo or T'Challa's history.
Writers have the luxury of 'expanding' the histories of popular characters all the time, and if it makes the story better, people don't give a crap. Winter Soldier? Brand New Day? Ben Reilly and the Clone Saga??
Hell YEAH I'm pushing them because they're a black couple. By the time I stopped buying Marvel books, I had (shamefully) an encyclopedic knowledge of their universe and wasted an insane amount of money, as well as staking my professional career on those interests. If it isn't obvious, I'm a black guy. It wasn't until Milestone (1994) that I'd ever seen *anything* that was like MYSELF in a comic book.
I'm not just speaking from my own black perspective, but as a minority in general. Do people have ANY idea how much it sucks to watch cartoons or read comics or play video games and rarely EVER see yourself in them? Sure, a lot of people on these boards would throw their hands up quizzically, questioning why that's even important. I counter that those same people have the defense of indifference. When nearly EVERY comic book character looks like you, or your dad, or your mom, or your family, or your life, your escapism is a foregone conclusion.
I mean, can you imagine being GAY(for example) and having to wait until, really, just NOW to get an openly GAY character that you can identify in *any* way with? So many black kids grew up on Marvel comics - hell, half of The Wu-Tang Clan's alter-egos were Marvel Comic-related names -You can't imagine what it felt like going to conventions - speaking to creators who spoke candidly and professionally about the industry, stating, frankly, that minorities make up such a small percentage of the buying audience that it really didn't make business sense to represent them.
I can swallow that, though. If your purchasing-power demo is the 8-18 white kid, Do your thing, show some cleavage, add a SNIKT, and get the ball rolling.
However, in all my years of supporting mainstream comics, is it so unreasonable that the only two major African characters who are of regal stature, develop a relationship? Is it so inconceivable that they might know each other? That they're both intelligent, capable, have a shared history, and MAYBE be inclined to see each other romantically? Like, until Barack and Michelle, was that SO outrageous and absurd??
Or, screw it, on even the most simple level - can there just be ONE black couple in the Marvel Universe? I mean, you know, as a reward for those fans who grew up reading this stuff. I mean, in 30+ years, can there at least be ONE? I'm really straining to think of any black couples in the MU.
Because it's a sad day when all of my black comic friends who grew up with me reading this stuff as we went through college together, accepted with no small measure of sadness, that we'd best enjoy the Priest Panther run and the Storm/Panther wedding NOW, because there's no way in HELL Marvel will EVER let those plotlines stick.
And Lo and behold...
So Hell friggin YEAH, I'm advocating it.
Just because.
IrishNinja
Member
thought this was a pretty good post, had some friends i grew up with that said the same shit to me too, i thought it made perfect sense in the day just like it does now. i used to wonder if Spawn helped some shit out, but it was kinda after the 80s point when Punisher, Wolvy & Venom were running shit on my block, haha.
youre black? good for you. a few of us in this thread are. im all for storytelling, and if a black couple comes along in the future, thats fine. but panther and storm were together for the sake that they were black only. there was no chemistry before and after the marriage. in fact, one of the worst aspects of man without fear was when storm showed up outta nowhere. it was a relationship that went nowhere because it didnt make sense. a man with an ego trip pushed for it and it landed on its face. id like to see a couple that seems to interact with each other well. as much as it pains me to admit this, luke cage and jessica jones are a perfect example, but i wont stand for pandering for the sake of pandering. being a comic fan, you should be insulted that something like this would happen, not embrace it because its the best option there is.
BlackBanditSho
Member
The reason that the Storm/T'challa thing failed was because, honestly, Marvel's in piss-poor shape editorially and has been for years. There's zero consistency between issues, much less between team lines. The T'challa/Storm relationship was far from perfect. My beef wasn't the creation, but the characterization thereafter. Storm became a sideline to Panther, which was absurd. Hudlin handled it poorly, no argument there. However, that doesn't negate that the marriage shouldn't have happened. That it wasn't important. Even essential.
Also, this isn't a rallying cry to re-examine all of comicdom's relationships or cultural identities. Because the Luke/Jessica relationship was, frankly, treated with the utmost of care by a single writer, it reached the peaks and valleys that Bendis intended. IT was, essentially, very fulfilling. I'm not pained to admit their pairing at all. It remains good writing.
Also, jeez, it's Bendis. If anyone has nearly full house privy with Marvel's roster, it's BMB. IF he wants to bring back Jessica Drew's Spider-woman, make Luke Cage a leader of the Avengers, or make Brother Voodoo the Master of the Mystic Arts, it's Bendis - and without tampering.
Now try Hudlin or (R.I.P.) Mcduffie. It's difficult to write any book with so much cross-company editorial interplay. Hudlin may have aimed high, and perhaps failed in some respects, but his run wasn't entirely without merit.
It's very difficult for me to call what Reggie did 'pandering'. Having met the man several times, I can tell you that he was VERY passionate about Panther. While his run might not have suited everyone, the pairing of T'challa and Ororo was certainly not a flavor of the moment decision.
I would love to have seen the Ororo/T'challa union work, even if fans didn't see the pairing coming. I enjoyed the backstory given, and wished, perhaps, that the writing was better, that editorial (in general) was more consistent, and that fans like myself wouldn't have to pine away for something like this...
To your point: I wasn't insulted, not that something like this happened, but by the fact that it WAS the best - and ONLY- option there was. And remains so.
PIS, the author obviously didn't took everything into consideration when doing this, I have a What If issue where Wolverine kills Surfer with his claws and another What if Surfer destroys all of earth heroes.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I was referring to Daredevil slapping down Gambit. Not Black Panther.
hudlin was given a lot of leeway with panther. its the only thing that makes sense with how horrible that series was. that and when a new, interesting character like blue marvel comes along, and he is completely forgotten outside of his own book. if the pairing of storm and bp wasnt flavor of the month, then what was it? there was no development of their characters. hell, bronze tiger and vixen were a much more convincing couple in terms of interaction, but there was nothing between these two characters. and im unsure how their marriage was essential, as it brought nothing to broad scheme of things.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Huh, it's just Bats and Supes doing their buddy buddy combo attack.
[Clark Gable]
Banned
Batman has a contingency plan for everything. You should have picked someone better than Black Panther that's abc shit. BP is written so fucking poorly too.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
Just watched the bp cartoon on netflix.
Bp wins with vibranium assist.
Bp wins with vibranium assist.
I can see where you are coming for as a Black person saying there being a representation of a positive black couple is a big deal for you.
But Hudlin's pairing makes sense because of their shared African heritage? His story was just a pile of horseshit. Parallax has already pointed out why I think the marriage never worked.
But I 'll reply why I think that they would never work. You notice the common strain in all the couples you mentioned (besides white people ) and why they work or make sense infinitely more? Because these characters were introduced in the same books and belong to the same corners if the Marvel U. The lore of those characters ties them together. A couple being black and hailing from Africa are not the greatest of reasons to be playing one's fanboy fantasies out. And yes, within the larger Marvel U the BP verse and X-verse are disparate corners. BP and Wakanda has no business ever impacting an X-story more than it needs to and the reverse is also true. I could have lived the brief fling or flirtation but marriage ties two characters together who are never really served well by it. Making Storm a literal queen tied to Wakanda is just a bad idea.
You know how best to serve BP fans ? Give him a mythos that is all his own. This includes a cast of characters, rogues gallery, Wakanda myth and legend all which could be tied to him. If we have to create a power black couple in comics , then why not immortalize a love interest for Tchalla that originates in his own books.
My position will always be the same. Certain character relationships/ flirtations might make sense in the sense of a wider U but they should never be permanent. The successful approach to make a character richer in terms of history and significance is to follow the Spider-man approach. Give them story which is all their own and doesn't rely on other heroes.
GhettoGamer
Member
Can someone spot what is wrong with this pic?
Its just Batman casually kicking Captain Marvel (the guy who is on the same power level as Supes) across the desert like a common thug. Its not like he is putting Silver Surfer in a chokehold, totally different.........
Byakuya769
Member
Perfectly calculated change in acceleration and trajectory with a well placed kick! Prep time in milliseconds.
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