The one thing I still don't understand about the original (and I don't think 2049 addressed it), is if we take the unicorn origami to mean Gaff knew about Deckard's implants, how did he know, why did he know, and why would he be all cryptic and leave the unicorn behind and not just simply tell him? Seemed contrived
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
firehawk12
Subete no aware
haha, of course.
It's weird because I thought the debate was fun, but having a direct sequel just complicates it almost needlessly. I almost wish the sequel just came out and said one way or another what the "canon" ending of 1 should be.
I always took it as a "You know I know, I know you know, and let's just leave it at that". Which was basically what they had him say when K goes to meet Gaff at the old folk's home.
jasminlovesyoux
Banned
I keep thinking about this movie and I'm probably right there with you. I need to see it a second time though.
DieNgamers
Member
Talk about his later work what you want...Wouldn't you agree Ridley Scott is a living legend? Think about it.
Finally saw this tonight. It's definitely one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen, may go again while it's still in theaters. I might actually like 2049 better than the original (though I only saw it for the first time a couple weeks ago). Both have rather sparse stories and appealed to me more on a design/technical level, but the characters in 2049 felt more fleshed out.
Also regarding sentience: Priscilla Page posted this on Twitter earlier and I found it a very insightful and concise summary of consciousness.
https://twitter.com/BBW_BFF/status/919017355623120896
Also regarding sentience: Priscilla Page posted this on Twitter earlier and I found it a very insightful and concise summary of consciousness.
https://twitter.com/BBW_BFF/status/919017355623120896
s_mirage
Member
I see another way of looking at it: Madame covers it up on her own. Remember when she impresses upon K the importance of a Replicant giving birth being kept secret because of the danger of that knowledge starting a war? If a proper investigation is performed it becomes much more difficult to keep that secret. She knows that it was Luv that killed Coco and took the bones, but she can't do anything against her without the potential of creating a much bigger problem. Of course, Madame's own murder still needs to be covered up, but I assume that pressure from Wallace plus the insistence of Luv, who "cannot lie", that it was self defence would sort that out.
The shorts aren't required in the slightest. 'Blackout' is a good watch, though.
Definitely watch the Final Cut of the original.
Kadayi
Banned
As long as Luv delivers I doubt Wallace cares, the guy is insanely powerful and the death of some meddling police chief is likely nothing he can't sweep under the rug.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
The shorts actually spoil the movie a little bit. Watch the shorts after the movies IMO, or maybe in this order:
Final Cut
Blackout anime short
2049
Dave Batista short / Jared Leto short
The shorts all happen between the movies
Heckler456
Banned
I'm having a conversation with this guy on reddit, and he made this point that I'm having difficulty "refuting", for lack of a better term.
Why would Sapper or Freysa hide the kid in the blade runner organisation? Shouldn't this raise some questions in K's mind, in terms of the validity of him believing that he's the replicant child? I personally can explain it away with the combination of the evidence he has (the dream, finding the horse, the DNA record) and really wanting to be real/special/have a soul, but on the other hand, I can't really reason against this person thinking this is a flaw in the narrative, sort of.
Why would Sapper or Freysa hide the kid in the blade runner organisation? Shouldn't this raise some questions in K's mind, in terms of the validity of him believing that he's the replicant child? I personally can explain it away with the combination of the evidence he has (the dream, finding the horse, the DNA record) and really wanting to be real/special/have a soul, but on the other hand, I can't really reason against this person thinking this is a flaw in the narrative, sort of.
Hidden in plain sight. Just like the actual child. For starters.
Plus, he doesn't really learn that there is a resistance and that the child is being actively hidden until much later, right? Up until that point, the child seems like a misplaced orphan, which K believes to be himself due to his vivid memories. It takes quite a long time for us to go from a child was born to K being told it isn't him.
Heckler456
Banned
Well:
In terms of the resistance purposefully placing the baby in the blade runner organisation: If the child's so important, why place it in such imminent danger? Replicants can be killed, as is evident by the fact that K hunts them for a living.
In terms of him thinking he's just a misplaced orphan: I don't think there are other replicant children, right? While they do age normally, they aren't ever really children, right? They're still made, from one of those bags, as adults. Because otherwise, why implant fake memories?
Holy crap the audio was absolutely dismal in the cinema I saw the film in, was close to ruining the entire experience to be honest. The soundtrack was completely messed up, half the time it just came across as distorted droning. Even Dunkirk was as bad as this.
I can't wait to reward children this at home on my own setup. They almost always fix mixing issues in the home video release.
I can't wait to reward children this at home on my own setup. They almost always fix mixing issues in the home video release.
Auto correct is the worst sometimes but I laughed so it has some value even when it messes up. lmao.
The fact that K is equipped to hunt them and is good at it makes him a pretty good hiding spot. But I think that's besides the point, K isn't actually aware that anything is being 'hidden' until he's told that he is not the child. Freya even says "we all wish it was us", so the belief that they are the kid is probably something that occurs in replicants that get those specific memories. A replicant that got unique memories ending up a BR is pretty plausible.
He finds evidence that one was born and passed through an orphanage that he has memories of. He goes there, finds the pages missing, and doesn't actually get closure until Freya tells him that it isn't him. It seems plausible that he could be the child right up until it's revealed that there is an entire operation watching over this kid and they're planning an uprising. He's completely unaware of this until he's told.
I don't see how it's a plot hole.
Heckler456
Banned
Man, I can't wait to watch this movie again on Sunday.
I think we (K as well as we as the audience) know that someone was trying to actively hide the baby from the point where he notices that the DNA was identical, no? But I do suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that they did it for anything beyond giving the kid a chance at life.
Still though, the question then is: How do replicants end up at the LAPD? Surely they don't apply or anything like that. They're probably just purposefully made by the Wallace Corp for that use specifically, and go from the factory directly into duty. So how does K think he ended up with the Blade Runner organisation? It's possible that he think he was clandestinely inserted by some secret benefactor.
Yeah, it did seem plausible to me in the moment. And I still ascribe to the notion that he just believed it because he so desperately wanted it to be true anyway.
I think we (K as well as we as the audience) know that someone was trying to actively hide the baby from the point where he notices that the DNA was identical, no? But I do suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that they did it for anything beyond giving the kid a chance at life.
Still though, the question then is: How do replicants end up at the LAPD? Surely they don't apply or anything like that. They're probably just purposefully made by the Wallace Corp for that use specifically, and go from the factory directly into duty. So how does K think he ended up with the Blade Runner organisation? It's possible that he think he was clandestinely inserted by some secret benefactor.
Yeah, it did seem plausible to me in the moment. And I still ascribe to the notion that he just believed it because he so desperately wanted it to be true anyway.
Monocle
Member
There's no doubt in my mind that this is true. BR2049 will prove to have staying power.
Thanks for the info, it sounds great. It seems more expensive here (£40 on Amazon UK currently although maybe I'll somehow find an Irish retailer, there are a few others in the EU I can check). Sounds worth it regardless.
The girl is listed as having died of "Galatians Syndrome." So he's looking for a male child, and believes it to possibly be himself. Only later is that death revealed to be deception.
The police captain doesn't help matters. She notes that she's worked with a lot of K's type before but that he's different. If you believe that Deckard's daughter is a subcontractor and it isn't known that she's putting real memories into the replicants, it doesn't seem farfetched that K could end up a BR.
SkylineRKR
Member
What did you guys think of Sylvia Hoeks? I'm also from Holland but never heard of her to be honest, thought she was menacing. Held her ground against behemoths such as Gosling and Ford.
Its kind of odd that the one they've been looking for is actually sort of working for Wallace. Yet they don't have the slightest idea.
Also, the movie has material for a sequel. Hope it won't be 35 years lol.
Its kind of odd that the one they've been looking for is actually sort of working for Wallace. Yet they don't have the slightest idea.
Also, the movie has material for a sequel. Hope it won't be 35 years lol.
Atraveller
Banned
Saw it the third time today. I told myself this would be my last time before home release, but I still have friends who haven't seen it yet, hmmm.
hendersonhank
Member
I didn't get why the kid was the key anyway. Isn't it the mother that was the miracle and the part that Wallace couldn't figure out? How would examining a kid tell him how the mother replicant was able to conceive and give birth?
From the imdb trivia:
Didn't catch that.
Also I just remembered Covenant came out this year. Two iconic properties, one ruined with the original director returning and making a mess, the other with the perfect sequel. Also striking that both stand on the opposite of the spectrum of my theater experiences this year: Covenant was the worst, BR2049 easily the best.
Didn't catch that.
Also I just remembered Covenant came out this year. Two iconic properties, one ruined with the original director returning and making a mess, the other with the perfect sequel. Also striking that both stand on the opposite of the spectrum of my theater experiences this year: Covenant was the worst, BR2049 easily the best.
SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah agreed. Glad Ridley didn't do this one.
Saw it last night. Really really enjoyed it. Very glad they kept true to the original in terms of not making it a huge action film blockbuster like they could have, but also managed to expand on some of the ideas and not just retread old ground.
Also very glad that they didn't make things as obvious as it seemed like they were going to be as the movie went.
Also very glad that they didn't make things as obvious as it seemed like they were going to be as the movie went.
hendersonhank
Member
I don't understand. They didn't hide the kid in the Blade Runner organization. They dropped the kid at the orphanage and someone adopted it.
Turbo Killer
Member
Maybe the guy went to the bathroom when the reveal happened, lol.
Ok I understand what he is saying that K should come to the logical conclusion that he is not the child, but isnt this the best example of hiding in plain sight?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
At this point then I am leaning more towards the wooden carvings being from Deckard and not old mementos he kept from Rachael.
It would also jive with Deckard's relation to Gaff. He makes origami animals, Deckard makes wooden ones. Both hunted replicants and preferred to be alone. It's like pottery. It rhymes.
Warm Machine
Member
The story was mostly developed by Ridley and team. I would have liked to have seen his take as Im sure the sets would have had that operatic jumble quality instead of stripped down more and the light would have been a lot less fixed.
Heckler456
Banned
I think it's the notion of getting the kid into the Blade Runner organization unnoticed that's a bit too difficult to believe for him. Which frankly, does make sense. Nexus 9 models aren't made as children, are they? At least, if we're to take that one scene with Wallace and that replicant-from-a-bag as the norm. So really, if they are just ready-made adult human beings at "birth", and are immediately shipped off to the LAPD, it'd be pretty much impossible for him to have ever lived in that orphanage, or even to have ever been a child. Unless of course, K's presuming that there are people working on the inside of the LAPD keeping him safe or whatever. And that could be a potential explanation as well.
But again, I can easily explain this away with K just really wanting to believe that this was true, as well as being convinced by the evidence that he had already collected. I think the difference between that guy and me is that I'm just going along with the flow and thought process of the main character, while he didn't.
The Terminator - Terminator 2
The Godfather - The Godfather Part 2
Alien - Aliens
Mad Max Trilogy - Fury Road
Blade Runner - Blade Runner 2049
No question, imo.
ShadowKingpin
Member
We must have seen two different films. The audio for me was fantastic. The IMAX version was amazing and standard 2D sounded great.
Just came out of the cinema. I watched it for the second time and boi. It's even better than the first time.
This movie is really, really deep. I like how the hope for replicants to become equal to humans (via reproduction) is the very person who makes memories, to make their behaviour more human-like.
The child of an artificial woman lives her life in an artificial world giving memories (emotions) to artificial humans living in the real world.
My mind is buzzing. This is now officially my all time favorite movie.
My only minor concern is that while 98% of the soundtrack is just as perfect as the movie itself, there indeed are songs and parts in it which doesn't really fit the scene.
Other than that, this is the closet a movie ever came to being perfect.
This movie is really, really deep. I like how the hope for replicants to become equal to humans (via reproduction) is the very person who makes memories, to make their behaviour more human-like.
The child of an artificial woman lives her life in an artificial world giving memories (emotions) to artificial humans living in the real world.
My mind is buzzing. This is now officially my all time favorite movie.
My only minor concern is that while 98% of the soundtrack is just as perfect as the movie itself, there indeed are songs and parts in it which doesn't really fit the scene.
Other than that, this is the closet a movie ever came to being perfect.
Maybe the unicorn is Rachel?
Soundtrack
I can't stop listening to the soundtrack, it's so good. And every time I hear a loud muffler it reminds me of the movie lol, specifically the flight to LAPD track.
Someone lived this.....
When I watched it for the second time, it legit brought tears to my eyes.
She was fantastic, delivered a great performance. You never knew what she would do, she was pretty scary. She acted so much like a robot it was peculiar. Like when she is in the shuttle with Deckard, she has perfect posture and is just staring at him the whole time. Idk she was great.
Robot Pants
Member
Im with you.
Its giving Fight Club a run for its money as my favorite of all time
Freewheelin'
Member
The way we remember things that happened before now are memories. Replicants have implanted memories. He thinks he was a child before he came to the LAPD because of an implanted memory. The way he uncovers his "past" kind of predisposes him to accept what he discovers since he is finding it out through his investigation rather than some third party relaying it.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll