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[killertofu]

He probably could have handled it better than he did. He got promoted to ASAC, and with that job he has bigger fish to fry than just the Heisenberg case, let alone going rogue and investigating himself when he has people to do it for him in a more professional matter. His job description required more for him, not investigating through unsolicited means.

That said of course, there was no way he'd have gotten Walt for that split second if he didn't do what he did, so there's definitely that side of the coin. His death became pretty damn awesome and it was an honorable way to go out.

So if you find out that the man you've been chasing for over a year turned out to be your own brother-in-law, you'd let it slide cause there's bigger fish to fry?

Hank just found this out while on the crapper. He wasn't actively pursuing the case. Then he had to be rogue about it because of the implications it had on his own career.

 

[7he Talon]

Is there anyway that Walt can redeem himself?

The last scene where he is giving Skyler the alibi was one of the saddest scenes ever.

 

[White Man]

So where is the Jesse confession video that was shot by Hank and Gomie? If it's still at Hank's house, won't the Nazis be coming to look for it?

 

[rekameohs]

Honey in a bottle?! What sorcery is that

I guess you've never eaten in a quality Mexican restaurant. Sopapillas are fucking incredible.

 

[inm8num2]

TeamJr!

I just loved that takedown + defensive combo. It was something that had needed to happen for a long time. Flynn's grew up quite a bit in this last episode but he still pulled himself together.

 

[.GqueB.]

holy shit (if true)

this show, the writers are geniuses

She's not even looking at the bottle...

 

[inm8num2]

So where is the Jesse confession video that was shot by Hank and Gomie? If it's still at Hank's house, won't the Nazis be coming to look for it?

Yea I was talking about that last night. The Nazis know about the confession, so they're probably going to Hank's house. I just hope that in her grief Marie might realize that she needs to save the confession, if she knows where Hank and Gomie stored it.

 

[Ithil]

Where did I say they had to be? Walt hasn't been the main character we're meant to identify with for a couple of seasons, which makes him not the protagonist.

The protagonist is the main character. That's all. Walt is the main character, thus he's the protagonist. You're attaching extra meanings to the word that don't exist.

Protagonist doesn't mean "hero", or "audience surrogate", or anything like that, just that it's the main character that you follow. There's been plenty of works that have the villain as the protagonist. It just so happens that most protagonists in fiction are also the hero, because that's generally the way people like fiction stories to follow.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

So where is the Jesse confession video that was shot by Hank and Gomie? If it's still at Hank's house, won't the Nazis be coming to look for it?

I can't imagine that the Nazis could actually get to it though. The police and DEA will probably be swarming the Schrader residence within a half hour of Walt's phone call, looking for any scrap of what Hank was up to.

That's not something that a bunch of scruffy guys with swastika tattoos can just pull up to.

 

[Batigol]

I guess you've never eaten in a quality Mexican restaurant. Sopapillas are fucking incredible.

No sir. I'm curious about it though

 

[Flo_Evans]

So where is the Jesse confession video that was shot by Hank and Gomie? If it's still at Hank's house, won't the Nazis be coming to look for it?

I'm afraid so.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

So where is the Jesse confession video that was shot by Hank and Gomie? If it's still at Hank's house, won't the Nazis be coming to look for it?

Is that the video that Jesse was screaming about when Todd came for him in the cell?

 

[Wilbur]

She's not even looking at the bottle...

 

[captive]

Some of you continue to be so black and white. RE hank v Walt, it was Hank's pride that brought him down, much like its Walt's pride that brings him down.

The problem is not that Hank continued to peruse Walt, it's how he did it. He went rogue and the only guy he brought in from the DEA was gomie. He's dead because he was unofficial about the investigation. Even with the embarrassment of his own brother in law being a meth kingpin he should have brought all evidence to the DEA.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

Is that the video that Jesse was screaming about when Todd came for him in the cell?

The entire reason Todd took Jesse, initially anyway as far as we know, was to extract the information that he told the DEA. When Todd returns to the already tortured Jesse, Jesse begs for mercy claiming that he already gave them anything and the only record there is is the DEA, telling him just to go to his house and get it; Todd confirms to Jesse that they're already on it.

EDIT:

She's not even looking at the bottle...

It highlights her lack of willingness to give into her desires but as we see from her hands, she is failing. Vince Gilligan is a genius.

 

[Bread]

She's not even looking at the bottle...

wait...does that mean that skylar has looked away from the bottle (family) just like walt has (napkin)?

 

[mokeyjoe]

This isn't true. An ANTAGONIST is the person who antagonizes the PROTAGONIST. Hence the latin root/prefix ANTA. A protagonist is by nature meant to be likable. A lead character is not necessarily a protagonist.

Sorry, that's wrong. A protagonist is the lead character and an antagonist is his adversary. Of course a lead character is almost always good and his adversary bad, but it doesn't have to be that way. Protagonist is simply the Greek for 'lead actor'.

 

[Mononoke]

Jesse no doubt talked about Todd + his uncle Jack and the prison shanking's. So yeah, the Nazis are going to try to do something about that video.

 

[.GqueB.]

I hate you people...

 

[Skeyser]

She's not even looking at the bottle...

Yeah, she's clearly looking at her hands. Though I'm pretty sure that picture is supposed to be a joke.

 

[Personifried]

He probably could have handled it better than he did. He got promoted to ASAC, and with that job he has bigger fish to fry than just the Heisenberg case, let alone going rogue and investigating himself when he has people to do it for him in a more professional matter. His job description required more from him, not investigating through unsolicited means.

That said of course, there was no way he'd have gotten Walt for that split second if he didn't do what he did, so there's definitely that side of the coin. His death became pretty damn awesome and it was an honorable way to go out.

I completely agree that Hank went out with a bang, and I think it's close to, if not, a hero's death.

However, I also feel that, at least for this arc, Walt and Hank wind up being two sides of the same coin.

Walt's set aside his morals and taken action to become a dangerous, murderous, meth-slinging kingpin, using his family as the justification.

Meanwhile, Hank's taken action to send irreversible shockwaves of trauma throughout his family, in the name of justice -- using morality as the justification.

In reality, they're both motivated more by spite than anything else (Walt about Gray Matter, and Hank about his Heisenberg obsession).

I dunno, when I watch shows like this, I try not to see things black and white. I think Breaking Bad does this pretty well. Was Hank doing the right thing? You can't really say. There wasn't really an objectively right thing to do -- so he just did what was in character for him.

 

[R2D4]

Honey in a bottle?! What sorcery is that

Have you ever bought honey at a grocery store? Or do you only eat it off the comb like a bear?

 

[Personifried]

Is there anyway that Walt can redeem himself?

The last scene where he is giving Skyler the alibi was one of the saddest scenes ever.

Simple answer: No. No way whatsoever. He's too far gone.

 

[Mononoke]

Yeah, she's clearly looking at her hands. Though I'm pretty sure that picture is supposed to be a joke.

It is. Someone made it to make fun of Reddit fans that are always over analyzing everything. That picture is a couple weeks old I think. Funny stuff.

 

[strobogo]

Never once did I think that Walt was going to kill Skyler or that she'd end up dead. The flash forward just made me think he was sad and missed his family and old life. This episode just reenforced that to me.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

This whole "you just see things in black and white" thing is getting tiring.

You can see things in shades of gray but still point out when one shade of gray is like, significantly darker than the other.

 

[Mononoke]

Simple answer: No. No way whatsoever. He's too far gone.

The only way I could see a semi-redemption, is if he saves Jesse, and turns himself in to authorities. Shows actual remorse for what he's done, and let's justice be served by being sentenced. Even then, that wouldn't be complete redemption.

And I honestly don't see Walt doing that. I see Walt dying, or running. And even if he did save Jesse (or let's say Jesse kills him), there is no redemption in that.

 

[Personifried]

This whole "you just see things in black and white" thing is getting tiring.

You can see things in shades of gray but still point out when one shade of gray is like, significantly darker than the other.

See, I see it the total opposite way. The shades of gray are so fascinating on their own that I don't really care all too much which one is darker. At this point in the series, they're pretty much all off-black.

It's not about what shade is darker, it's about the hue, maaaan.

 

[iammeiam]

I feel like the time skip short-changed Hank a little. My impression at the end of season 5 part 1 was that he was actually going bigger picture and getting past Heisenberg. It just all went to shit when he found Gale's inscription and realized who Heisenberg was. 5 part two wasn't Hank acting on his original Heisenbrg obsession, this was a new fixation on his brother the crime lord.

 

[Personifried]

The only way I could see a semi-redemption, is if he saves Jesse, and turns himself in to authorities. Shows actual remorse for what he's done, and let's justice be served by being sentenced. Even then, that wouldn't be complete redemption.

And I honestly don't see Walt doing that. I see Walt dying, or running. And even if he did save Jesse (or let's say Jesse kills him), there is no redemption in that.

Even if that's the case, it won't bring Mike back. It won't bring Hank or Gomie back. It won't change what Walt Jr. has to go through, and it won't change the fact that his poor daughter has to live her life as the daughter of a renown dead meth kingpin.

 

[Ben Pierce]

EIGHTY! MEEIILLIIIIIOOON! DOLLARS!

 

[inky]

I guess you've never eaten in a quality Mexican restaurant. Sopapillas are fucking incredible.

Sopapillas ain't really traditionally Mexican, although I guess they are commonly associated in the US. They are really similar to some food that is, tho (like Mexico's own kind of buñuelos).

 

[inm8num2]

She's not even looking at the bottle...

 

[.GqueB.]

LMAO!!!

 

[FleckSplat]

I agree...the set up all makes sense. But the actual conversation is just too vicious. I mean, usually when you're redeeming someone, the person you're redeeming is supposed to be in on it, too (play along, follow my lead, etc.) But "I killed Hank, you don't wanna end up like him, etc." just destroys that entire idea in my mind.

When Skyler looks up, and there's that long pause, to me, it's like, "OK...Skyler knows." And then he goes, "You will end up just like Hank."

Why did he need to go there? It reminded me of his random jab at Jesse. "You know that girl you loved? She's dead."

Again, unnecessarily vicious. Just...outright monstrous.

He got his point across when he he said that he said that he did everything and Skyler did nothing. OK, cool. If you're tricking the police, I think they bought it. But the inclusion of Hank? Why? What's to stop the police from thinking that Walt is just scolding an AWOL accomplice? "This is all your fault, etc." After all, she's supposedly in such a dire need to be proven innocent, right? Walt never outright says that he forced her to do anything....just that she's incompetent and did nothing. Sounds just like a bitter drug lord that shoots his faithful, yet expendable, partner in the back and takes all the credit.

Fake edit: I'm getting a head ache. I'll revisit this later after I get some sleep. lol

Right before the bolded part, he said "tow the line" as in, follow this script.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Gomez seems like he's in not that bad of a mood.

 

[Mononoke]

I feel like the time skip short hanged Hank a little. My impression at the end of season 5 part 1 was that he was actually going bigger picture and getting past Heisenberg. It just all went to shit when he found Gale's inscription and realized who Heisenberg was. 5 part two wasn't Hank acting on his original Heisenbrg obsession, this was a new fixation on his brother the crime lord.

Yeah, Season 5 on the whole feels rushed in some aspects. I think two more seasons would have probably been better for proper build up, and allowed certain things to be fleshed out. It's not bad by any means, I think they've done an excellent job all things considered.

But there are certain things I feel moved too fast (like Walt's last attempt to make an empire, and then him jumping out of the game).

 

[CambriaRising]

Not at all.

"I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

I am aware of the poem. What is this "Not at all" shit? Do you believe that "He made up his mind ten minutes ago" has absolutely 100% no correlation to the character (who has the same title as the episode) from Watchmen's nearly identical dialogue?

"Not at all". Seriously dude?

 

[.GqueB.]

Gomez seems like he's in not that bad of a mood.

God that'd be so cool if he were nodding.

 

[NotLiquid]

So if you find out that the man you've been chasing for over a year turned out to be your own brother-in-law, you'd let it slide cause there's bigger fish to fry?

Hank just found this out while on the crapper. He wasn't actively pursuing the case. Then he had to be rogue about it because of the implications it had on his own career.

Hank had only one piece of vague evidence supporting the idea that Walt is Heisenberg, and that's all he felt like he needed to sock him in the face and start bearing down on his family while having nothing to go on until Jesse turns.

It was a bullish approach that went against what his actual job requires of him to do, and even then he was hoping for Jesse to be killed just to pin down Walt.

The Heisenberg case has kind of proved that Hank is relatively similar to Walter but on a different side of the moral compass. He's the incredibly talented bad-cop with good intentions. Meanwhile Walter is the incredibly talented criminal meth cook with supposedly good intentions. Obviously Walter is the one who has done a lot more harm here, but some principles are rather interesting to delve into. Both are damn fascinating, and both never saw the inadvertent collateral consequences coming.

 

[Mononoke]

I agree...the set up all makes sense. But the actual conversation is just too vicious. I mean, usually when you're redeeming someone, the person you're redeeming is supposed to be in on it, too (play along, follow my lead, etc.) But "I killed Hank, you don't wanna end up like him, etc." just destroys that entire idea in my mind.

When Skyler looks up, and there's that long pause, to me, it's like, "OK...Skyler knows." And then he goes, "You will end up just like Hank."

Why did he need to go there? It reminded me of his random jab at Jesse. "You know that girl you loved? She's dead."

Again, unnecessarily vicious. Just...outright monstrous.

He got his point across when he he said that he said that he did everything and Skyler did nothing. OK, cool. If you're tricking the police, I think they bought it. But the inclusion of Hank? Why? What's to stop the police from thinking that Walt is just scolding an AWOL accomplice? "This is all your fault, etc." After all, she's supposedly in such a dire need to be proven innocent, right? Walt never outright says that he forced her to do anything....just that she's incompetent and did nothing. Sounds just like a bitter drug lord that shoots his faithful, yet expendable, partner in the back and takes all the credit.

Fake edit: I'm getting a head ache. I'll revisit this later after I get some sleep. lol

He said the part about Hank - to confirm to them that Hank is dead, as well as to take responsibility for his death. Skyler was asking where Hank's body was buried, because she knew Walt was running, and taking all the blame for everything. But for the sake of Marie and the family, she wanted Walt to tell her the location of the body, so they could put him at rest.

Walt (for whatever reason, I'm still not sure why edit: possibly because they don't know about the Nazis, and he doesn't want to endanger them if they go digging up the bodies and see the scene with all those bullet holes/shells) - decided he couldn't tell her the location, so just confirmed on the phone he was in fact dead. Knowing they wouldn't find the body, he knew Marie would always wonder if he was really dead. So he confirmed it.

At least, that is how I took it. He wasn't trying to sting Skyler, by saying she would end up like him, but was revealing information under the mask of his act.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I don't think you can really fault Hank for going rouge and trying to build evidence against Walt.

If he came into the office with just a W.W. in a book he would of been laughed off the force. Remember when he tried to convince everyone Gus was heisenberg?

Marie wants him to go to the DEA, but he knows he can't until he has proof.

 

[KalBalboa]

This is a scene out of smallville btw.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

 

[.GqueB.]

I feel like the time skip short-changed Hank a little. My impression at the end of season 5 part 1 was that he was actually going bigger picture and getting past Heisenberg. It just all went to shit when he found Gale's inscription and realized who Heisenberg was. 5 part two wasn't Hank acting on his original Heisenbrg obsession, this was a new fixation on his brother the crime lord.

It became an ego thing at this point. Imagine someone spent the last 2 years stealing your graham crackers. You're looking high and low for the person stealing your graham crackers. You find out that it's part of a bigger thing. The graham crackers are but a tip of the iceberg.

...then you find out it was your girlfriend stealing your graham crackers. You're going to be less focused on the bigger thing because your girlfriend is fucking biatch.

 

[Personifried]

Hank had only one piece of vague evidence supporting the idea that Walt is Heisenberg, and that's all he felt like he needed to sock him in the face and start bearing down on his family while having nothing to go on until Jesse turns.

It was a bullish approach that went against what his actual job requires of him to do, and even then he was anticipating Jesse to be killed just to pin down Walt.

The Heisenberg case has kind of proved that Hank is relatively similar to Walter but on a different side of the moral compass. He's the incredibly talented bad-cop with good intentions. Meanwhile Walter is the incredibly talented criminal meth cook with supposedly good intentions. Obviously Walter is the one who has done a lot more harm here, but some principles are rather interesting to delve into. Both are damn fascinating, and both never saw the inadvertent collateral consequences coming.

I feel the good intentions bit is highlighted very well in the desert scene. Walt gives himself up to Hank, without any Heisenberg plan -- (actually much unlike Hank) he realizes his hands are tied, and this is the last thing he can do. At the end of the day,they both have good intentions, and they're both acting on them.

Then the Nazis, guys with actual bad intentions, roll in and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. All the while, Walt's clamoring at them to stop -- at this point, he'd rather face punishment than deal with what actually happened.

 

[Riggs]

Gomez seems like he's in not that bad of a mood.

lol holy shit

 

[Raiden]

I agree...the set up all makes sense. But the actual conversation is just too vicious. I mean, usually when you're redeeming someone, the person you're redeeming is supposed to be in on it, too (play along, follow my lead, etc.) But "I killed Hank, you don't wanna end up like him, etc." just destroys that entire idea in my mind.

When Skyler looks up, and there's that long pause, to me, it's like, "OK...Skyler knows." And then he goes, "You will end up just like Hank."

Why did he need to go there? It reminded me of his random jab at Jesse. "You know that girl you loved? She's dead."

Again, unnecessarily vicious. Just...outright monstrous.

He got his point across when he he said that he said that he did everything and Skyler did nothing. OK, cool. If you're tricking the police, I think they bought it. But the inclusion of Hank? Why? What's to stop the police from thinking that Walt is just scolding an AWOL accomplice? "This is all your fault, etc." After all, she's supposedly in such a dire need to be proven innocent, right? Walt never outright says that he forced her to do anything....just that she's incompetent and did nothing. Sounds just like a bitter drug lord that shoots his faithful, yet expendable, partner in the back and takes all the credit.

Fake edit: I'm getting a head ache. I'll revisit this later after I get some sleep. lol

Get some sleep and revisit

 

[NotLiquid]

I don't think you can really fault Hank for going rouge and trying to build evidence against Walt.

If he came into the office with just a W.W. in a book he would of been laughed off the force. Remember when he tried to convince everyone Gus was heisenberg?

Marie wants him to go to the DEA, but he knows he can't until he has proof.

I really don't blame him honestly. I just think that in and of itself, it's hard to deny that him not "treading lightly" as Walt put it, caused a good deal of collateral. That said, there was probably no other visible way for him to have actually gotten Walt if it weren't for his extreme methods. It's really not in his character to let it go as we've seen throughout the series.

 

[inm8num2]

EIGHTY! MEEIILLIIIIIOOON! DOLLARS!

Each!

(I miss those days. :/ )

 

[iammeiam]

It became an ego thing at this point. Imagine someone spent the last 2 years stealing your graham crackers. You're looking high and low for the person stealing your graham crackers. You find out that it's part of a bigger thing. The graham crackers are but a tip of the iceberg.

...then you find out it was your girlfriend stealing your graham crackers. You're going to be less focused on the bigger thing because your girlfriend is fucking biatch.

Ego and rage over Walt essentially taunting him no doubt played into it, but it's worth noting the first thing he tries to do with Walt (and later Skyler) is arrange to get Skyler and the kids out. It was personal in a lot of ways, I just don't think that Hank this half-season was really driven by his previous desire to be the man who catches Heisenberg anymore. It was very specific and personal.