Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC - OT2

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captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Yeahhhh

I fee like people are taking things too far when it comes to the morality of this show. Because, it is a show. I'm pretty sure if this was real life, like an actual news story - most of these people would not be rooting for Walt. He's a stylized fictional character, who's journey we've been through.

I also believe those that try to justify Walt's actions to make him a hero, are doing so more of out being conditioned by the usual protagonist role/formula in fiction, and aren't doing so because they have deeply rooted psychological problems.
he's not a hero, he's like the literal definition of an anti-hero.
 
Thinking about it, they could have easily EASILY made two 13 episode seasons of S5 and S6 instead of a 16 episode S5.

I still believe AMC royally fucked Vince over and Vince is just being nice in public because he is a goddamn gentleman.
I dunno.

I don't think I could watch this much human misery spread out over another season.
 
Thinking about it, they could have easily EASILY made two 13 episode seasons of S5 and S6 instead of a 16 episode S5.

I still believe AMC royally fucked Vince over and Vince is just being nice in public because he is a goddamn gentleman.
Actually I'm sure Vince's plan was a last season of 13 and AMC made him split it in two separate seasons of 8 for economic reasons (the fact that viewers from 5x08 to 5x09 basically DOUBLED it's more than enough as proof).
That probably explains the beginning of S5 which had a few filler episodes.
 
he's not a hero, he's like the literal definition of an anti-hero.
Of course.

I'm just saying I don't think people that are doing this, have deeply rooted psychological problems, I think they are more accustomed to being invested in the protagonist, and not being able to enjoy the story if they 100% hate him.
 
Yeahhhh

I fee like people are taking things too far when it comes to the morality of this show. Because, it is a show. I'm pretty sure if this was real life, like an actual news story - most of these people would not be rooting for Walt. He's a stylized fictional character, who's journey we've been through.

I also believe those that try to justify Walt's actions to make him a hero, are doing so more of out being conditioned by the usual protagonist role/formula in fiction, and aren't doing so because they have deeply rooted psychological problems.
The way I see it, it's the opposite. Fiction allows us to be in the shoes of others. With a news story, it's easy to demonize the criminal because if we get any insight into his motivations, backstory, etc, it's usually only a summary and a few quotes. Here, we are along for the ride every step of the way with Walt's life, so it's easier to see him as human with all his complexities. If we could ride along with real criminals as well, live with them through their most tender and human moments, we'd sympathize with them as well.
 
Of course.

I'm just saying I don't think people that are doing this, have deeply rooted psychological problems, I think they are more accustomed to being invested in the protagonist, and not being able to enjoy the story if they 100% hate him.
Walt isn't the protagonist. That's where so many people go off the rails with their appraisal of the character. He stopped being the protagonist when he poisoned Brock.
 
I think you're going to see the number of #TeamWalt fans swell over the next couple of episodes. He's going to suffer immensely while trying to rectify his past mistakes, mark my words.
 
Walt isn't the protagonist. That's where so many people go off the rails with their appraisal of the character. He stopped being the protagonist when he poisoned Brock.
You do know that an anti-hero or villain can continue to be a protagonist right?

Being a protagonist doesn't mean you have to be a good guy. It's the person that story is centered around. The point I was trying to make was, it's my belief that some fans have a hard time reconciling with the fact that, the main character in a story they are invested in - is someone that is completely unlikable, and someone you should root for to fail and be brought to justice.
 
Walt isn't the protagonist. That's where so many people go off the rails with their appraisal of the character. He stopped being the protagonist when he poisoned Brock.
Protagonist means main character, and he is still that.

If you mean he's not the "hero," then -- if he ever was one -- the whole letting Jane die thing was arguably more heinous than poisoning Brock, which he correctly figured would not be fatal.
 
Has it been note that on the White residence's counter the scene is altered between the initialy scene at the house involving the White family, and Marie's arrival and the telephone conversation, that the scene is altered, the fruitbowl specifically?

Before fight:

After fight:


It's possibly nothing, but with the association of oranges and death in The Godfather, something that Breaking Bad has utilised in the past to suggest extreme danger (but not to the same extent admittedly since Ted never died despite his severe injury):





Of course, again, it's possibly nothing, I just thought the addition of the orange within the fruitbowl was interesting; probably just over-analysing.
 
The way I see it, it's the opposite. Fiction allows us to be in the shoes of others. With a news story, it's easy to demonize the criminal because if we get any insight into his motivations, backstory, etc, it's usually only a summary and a few quotes. Here, we are along for the ride every step of the way with Walt's life, so it's easier to see him as human with all his complexities. If we could ride along with real criminals as well, live with them through their most tender and human moments, we'd sympathize with them as well.
I think we could sympathize with them, but I'm pretty sure most people would not want them to get away and be happy. We would sympathize with the very sad moments of their life. Moments that impacted them, and led them down their path. But if they were killers, or bad people - I doubt people would want them to get away with it.

My point was, I don't think people have psychological problems just because they root for a fictional character that is morally evil.
 
Walt isn't the protagonist. That's where so many people go off the rails with their appraisal of the character. He stopped being the protagonist when he poisoned Brock.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/protagonist

the main character in a novel, play, movie, etc.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hero

c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
There are more definitions of hero that fit walt, but this is the most used one, especially the latter

Now tell me which definition fits objectively and which only in the minds of those who really go out fo their way to see only his good qualities
 
Whoever it was that said that Walter's scene with Junior in Rabid Dog felt like a "good bye" of sorts, man. They were right.

I really feel sorry for Junior. Much like Jesse I always liked him. Even he has some growing up to do I suppose. I just kind of hate to see that innocence stripped off from him, especially since he idolized his dad so much after his diagnosis. The Savewalterwhite website is just sad looking back at it. He meant every single word that was written there.

The scene where Junior just snaps at Marie and Skyler is all sorts of gut-wrenching. I knew it would happen sooner. But the one thing I always dreaded to see was Walter letting Junior down.

I really wonder where they will go from here. Will Skyler feed him the new lies that Walter is leaving behind or is he going to want to know every last detail surrounding him?

This episode really did a number on me.
 
You do know that an anti-hero or villain can continue to be a protagonist right?

Being a protagonist doesn't mean you have to be a good guy. It's the person that story is centered around.
Where did I say they had to be? Walt hasn't been the main character we're meant to identify with for a couple of seasons, which makes him not the protagonist.
 
That and, I think Walt projects himself on to Jesse. Jesse represents his failures. The fact that Jesse had potential, and squandered it. And I think Walt also views himself as someone that gave Jesse all this opportunity, and he didn't take it.

Walt is a sick individual.
That's a good observation. I think your right. Walt probably does see a lot of himself in Jesse, which is probably why Jesse is weak spot for Walt. When it comes to Jesse, Walt doesn't really rationalize things - he just works on emotion (i.e. running over drug dealers, constantly trying to win him over, but then trying to hurt him by saying hurtful things ect). I really believe Walt genuinly cares for Jesse, but as with his family, he really doesn't know how to treat people with love; he can't see clearly what they really need. He resorts to lying and manipulation because that's easier and a quick fix, but ultimately makes things worse down the road for everyone. He has now fucked up his life beyond repair. His family is worse off now they would have been if had died broke in the very beginning. Walt knows he can't save himself or his family anymore, but maybe he thinks he can still save Jesse? That, to me, seems like a reason he would come back to fight the Nazi's.
 
I'm probably going to watch the whole series again once the last half of season five goes up on netflix. I really hope Season 5 doesnt feel rushed compared to the reset of the series.
 
Where did I say they had to be? Walt hasn't been the main character we're meant to identify with for a couple of seasons, which makes him not the protagonist.
You don't necessarily have to be able to identify with him for him to be the protagonist; he's very clearly the focal point of the show. His screentime vastly eclipsing the others and being the character that connects almost every plot. If you're trying to argue that Walter isn't the main character, you're going to have an extremely difficult time; the entire show focuses on Walter. There are other main characters, sure, but Walter is very plainly the focus of the show.

Of course, protagonist can, as you're stating, refer to a relatable character but it and main character are very commonly used as synonyms so one should probably be clarified as to what specifically you were referring to.

EDIT: Although, this is really just going to be, ultimately, a discussion as to what specifically 'protagonist means' so it probably isn't even worth much of a mention.
 
Walt is totally the protagonist. The protagonist doesn't need to be a hero or good. He's still the focal character of the show.
This isn't true. An ANTAGONIST is the person who antagonizes the PROTAGONIST. Hence the latin root/prefix ANTA. A protagonist is by nature meant to be likable. A lead character is not necessarily a protagonist.
 
Doesn't Breaking Bad get roughly one "fuck" a year? Did they already use it this season? I thought Hank deserved to get a good "fuck".
They still drop it from the audio when it airs, though.

It's the dumbest fucking rule of theirs. Their advertisers are already selling spots on the back of a show featuring some of the most deplorable shit currently on television. The idea that Swiffer won't buy a spot they would normally cough up for, just because there's a "Fuck" in the script?

Stupid. There's no way they're actually going to lose ad dollars for a detail like that, not when the show has made human bodies getting dissolved into a visual punchline

Also - I'm pretty sure they didn't USED to cut the audio, either. I think a couple "Fucks" got through in season 1. As they should have - it's cable. FCC can't do shit about it.
 
The way I see it, it's the opposite. Fiction allows us to be in the shoes of others. With a news story, it's easy to demonize the criminal because if we get any insight into his motivations, backstory, etc, it's usually only a summary and a few quotes. Here, we are along for the ride every step of the way with Walt's life, so it's easier to see him as human with all his complexities. If we could ride along with real criminals as well, live with them through their most tender and human moments, we'd sympathize with them as well.
Walt has a sympathetic motivations, but that doesn't make him not a monster. He's lied, he's used people in terrible ways, he's murdered people. And even when he was ahead, even when he could've had an out and just enjoyed the time he has left with his family, his pride thrusts him and those he cares about (who too often he uses as pawns in his manipulative games) into danger once again.

Yes, there are absolutely complexities, and yes, there's plenty of grey area, but that doesn't excuse anything he's done. He's a villain.
 
I think we could sympathize with them, but I'm pretty sure most people would not want them to get away and be happy. We would sympathize with the very sad moments of their life. Moments that impacted them, and led them down their path. But if they were killers, or bad people - I doubt people would want them to get away with it.

My point was, I don't think people have psychological problems just because they root for a fictional character that is morally evil.
I think people would realize where the impulse to commit evil things comes from and relate to it. If this thread is any indication, this understanding of why evil happens might lead a few people to agree with instances of it. Then again, maybe they'd have the clarity of mind to see that it's evil even if they understand where the desire for it comes from, like many have also shown in this thread.

Personally, whenever I see immediate demands of death whenever I see a thread about something terrible happening, I think those are also problematic. Both here and in those threads, people like to simply 'characters' to easily fit their categorical perspective. Heroes and villains. Complexity is hard.

I don't think anyone here has psychological problems though. I just think people don't think things through enough,

Yes? I never said otherwise.
 
Thinking about it, they could have easily EASILY made two 13 episode seasons of S5 and S6 instead of a 16 episode S5.

I still believe AMC royally fucked Vince over and Vince is just being nice in public because he is a goddamn gentleman.
I think you've got it backwards. Gilligan wanted to the end the show with a 13-episode S5, it was AMC who wanted it split up into two 8-episode years. So really, you should be thanking AMC for squeezing three more episodes out of the show. :lol
 
They still drop it from the audio when it airs, though.

It's the dumbest fucking rule of theirs. Their advertisers are already selling spots on the back of a show featuring some of the most deplorable shit currently on television. The idea that Swiffer won't buy a spot they would normally cough up for, just because there's a "Fuck" in the script?

Stupid. There's no way they're actually going to lose ad dollars for a detail like that, not when the show has made human bodies getting dissolved into a visual punchline.
I swore I heard that Walt's "fuck you" to Gretchen was unbleeped for at least its first showing. I agree, it's silly to allow it in the script but then silence it. Especially since they don't have to deal with the typical FCC triggers.

Edit: Ah, I see your update. Weird that they're going backwards on that.
 
I think you've got it backwards. Gilligan wanted to the end the show with a 13-episode S5, it was AMC who wanted it split up into two 8-episode years. So really, you should be thanking AMC for squeezing three more episodes out of the show. :lol
I thought Gilligan wanted 13 to finish up, AMC countered with a 6-8 episode S5, and they compromised on 2 seasons of 8 episodes (which is written into the contract as one 16-episode season split in half over two years.)
 
I really hope Season 5 doesnt feel rushed compared to the reset of the series.
It does a little bit. Too bad BB didn't get a full season to flesh some aspects out so that they've had time to sink in and feel real and fit better. Well, more solid than a super-nice montage can do, anyway. Doesn't hurt the show, really, but when it's this good, you always wish for more.
 
Whoever it was that said that Walter's scene with Junior in Rabid Dog felt like a "good bye" of sorts, man. They were right.

I really feel sorry for Junior. Much like Jesse I always liked him. Even he has some growing up to do I suppose. I just kind of hate to see that innocence stripped off from him, especially since he idolized his dad so much after his diagnosis. The Savewalterwhite website is just sad looking back at it. He meant every single word that was written there.

The scene where Junior just snaps at Marie and Skyler is all sorts of gut-wrenching. I knew it would happen sooner. But the one thing I always dreaded to see was Walter letting Junior down.

I really wonder where they will go from here. Will Skyler feed him the new lies that Walter is leaving behind or is he going to want to know every last detail surrounding him?

This episode really did a number on me.
oh man I forgot all about Junior's fundraiser website... didn't Walt launder some money through it? lol
 
They still drop it from the audio when it airs, though.

It's the dumbest fucking rule of theirs. Their advertisers are already selling spots on the back of a show featuring some of the most deplorable shit currently on television. The idea that Swiffer won't buy a spot they would normally cough up for, just because there's a "Fuck" in the script?

Stupid. There's no way they're actually going to lose ad dollars for a detail like that, not when the show has made human bodies getting dissolved into a visual punchline

Also - I'm pretty sure they didn't USED to cut the audio, either. I think a couple "Fucks" got through in season 1. As they should have - it's cable. FCC can't do shit about it.
Actually none of the "fucks" in season 1 made it on TV. They just allowed several more censored ones that year. AMC is pretty whack.
 
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